Road Cycling - True Temper OX vs Reynolds 853

I was sort of surprised to see that Lemond's new steel bike, the sarthe, (http://www.lemondbikes.com/2005_bikes/sarthe_classic.shtml )
is made out of True Temper instead of the 853 that has been on the tried and true Zurich that I've seen in the past. I've been told that True Temper tubing has a "too stiff for steel" feel to it and that it rides like aluminum. ANybody have any experience with the True Temper and Reynolds?

By the way I think that is a sexy bike!

I'm riding an 04 Zurich with the True Temper steel tubes (and carbon of course) and I LOVE it.

I was also shocked when my baby showed up without the 853 sticker so I e-mailed Lemond and asked what the dealio was. If I remember correctly they said it was about parts availability, quality, etc. They said the OX was better steel (of course they did) and it's U.S. steel to boot.

I love the ride. Although the only experience I had with 853 was a test ride on an 03 Zurich.

PJ

Any steel tube can have any feel that the designer selects. The designer can chose the thickness of the tube walls and the diameter of the tubes. Tubes with wide diameters and thick walls have the "dead" feel that aluminum fans confuse with "stiffness". Tubes with thinner walls and traditional diameters have the smooth, silky feel of the classic steel frames. There is no "magic" in the brand of the tubes that are used.

As far as I am concerned, steel is pretty much steel. My '89 Paramount doesn't ride much differently than a 2003 Allez Chromo, or a Burley Fox Hollow (lugged Tange vs. Columbus Foco vs. Reynolds 853). I think a bigger difference comes from manipulations to the tubing (s-bend stays, wall diameters, etc) than from the actual tubing material.

Any steel tube can have any feel that the designer selects. The designer can chose the thickness of the tube walls and the diameter of the tubes. Frame builders take what comes out of the tubing factories. Some Like Colnago have enough stroke to spec proprietary tubesets.

I was sort of surprised to see that Lemond's new steel bike, the sarthe, (http://www.lemondbikes.com/2005_bikes/sarthe_classic.shtml )
is made out of True Temper instead of the 853 that has been on the tried and true Zurich that I've seen in the past. I've been told that True Temper tubing has a "too stiff for steel" feel to it and that it rides like aluminum.
You heard some bS. As any steel tube gets drawn thinner and increases in diameter it does give a bit of a change in ride character. It doesn't apply to just true temper. A heattreated true temper frame with the same diameter and butting would ride like a 853 frame. FWIW, all steel is equally stiff.

I was also shocked when my baby showed up without the 853 sticker so I e-mailed Lemond and asked what the dealio was. If I remember correctly they said it was about parts availability, quality, etc. They said the OX was better steel (of course they did) and it's U.S. steel to boot.



PJThey just cut a better deal with True temper. Alot of people rag on TT because it's seamed tubing, but they have been making good stuff that way for years.Some claim that the finishing process actually gives better control of wall thickness.

Frame builders take what comes out of the tubing factories. Some Like Colnago have enough stroke to spec proprietary tubesets.

Don't some, like Bianchi, use their own process to ovalize their tubing after it arrives from the tubing factory?

I was sort of surprised to see that Lemond's new steel bike, the sarthe, (http://www.lemondbikes.com/2005_bikes/sarthe_classic.shtml )
is made out of True Temper instead of the 853 that has been on the tried and true Zurich that I've seen in the past. I've been told that True Temper tubing has a "too stiff for steel" feel to it and that it rides like aluminum. ANybody have any experience with the True Temper and Reynolds?

By the way I think that is a sexy bike!

Considering the crappy GBP/USD exchange rates, it's not surprising they'd look at something other than 853.

Don't some, like Bianchi, use their own process to ovalize their tubing after it arrives from the tubing factory?True enough,but they can't diddle with butting and overall diameter.

Frame builders take what comes out of the tubing factories. Some Like Colnago have enough stroke to spec proprietary tubesets.

There are lots of folks making tubing. Grant Peterson, at Rivendell, buys tubing from just about everybody. In the process of making a bike for one particular customer, he might "spec" tubing from two or three different sources. That allows a great deal of "customizing" for the weight, power, and riding style of that one customer.

"Custom" frame makers are also famous tubing "hoarders". Reynolds 531 was made in about a dozen different flavors over the years. And, for years after a particular tube was out of production, a "hoarder" could pull out a closet a particular tube that he had stashed away.

I saw a chart of steel tubes available to custom builders in the past couple of years. Columbus, True Temper, and Reynolds combined were offering about twenty different choices for any of the three main tubes. There were tubes for a 120 pound track rider, and tubes for a tandem than would be handling 400 pounds of riders. Tubes that are scary light, and tubes built like a Mack truck.

Bottom line: A custom frame maker working with steel is not going to have a difficult time delivering the kind of bike a customer wants...if that customer can afford a custom frame.