Living Car Free - What do you do when you need a car?

I'm thinking of ditching my car for financial reasons. I'm not struggling; I'm greedy, and practical. A little greed is good. A little anything is good really.

I've hauled cargo and passengers for 250 miles of the 47,000 miles I've driven ever in my life. That's one Nissan pickup auto that I got at 200,000 and killed at 220,000; one Chevy Cobalt auto I got brand new and traded in at 15,000; one Mazda 3S manual I got at 44,000 and now has 56,000 on it.

It's always just me.

More recently, I've been biking more than I drive. I feel like I can get my driving down under 100 miles per month, too... easily.

So I'm heavily considering a motorcycle, which is good because I don't want to lose auto insurance ... mainly because if I drop car insurance, and then get insurance again, "Not being insured" is a big hit I'm not ready to experimentally take. A 250cc motorcycle isn't going to cost much, doubly so because I commute by bicycle.

So I'm hoping I can ditch my car payment or recover liquid capital (by the time I'd sell my car, the car would be paid off-- in 2013), get a motorcycle insurance rate around $50/mo, drive the motorcycle relatively little, and be mostly taken care of.

What do I do if I suddenly need a car for some reason?

Car share or rental depending on the length of time I need the car. I am pretty certain there is a car share in Baltimore.

i would either keep the car or have no car and no motorcycle....or get a cargo bike or electric assist bike on trailer...or do car-sharing. is this for a girl?

Yes, there's ZipCar.

I think one problem I'll have is I can't drive an automatic. :| Literally, when I switched from an auto to a stick, I went from nearly causing multiple accidents a day to avoiding multiple accidents a day. I also wasn't constantly afraid of anything and everything on the road.

To be sure, I would be pretty scared if an invisible man could immediately shift my gear stick when he wanted, and the car refused to shift gears at times when I wanted it to. It would be strange... actually, wire an accelerator and brake pedal up in your passenger seat and get a passenger to control those while you steer, and you'll know how I feel.

But I had a high-mileage economy car (2008 Chevy Cobalt), it would go into high gear whenever it had an excuse, and refused to come down. Once I went up a hill in high gear flooring it, pinned at 6250RPM, with the car's engine screaming ... at 30mph. I don't know why, but it took the damn thing about 16 seconds before it suddenly downshifted and tore off like crazy.

That was only once, though; more typically, it would upshift if I backed off the gas a bit, and refuse to downshift for between 2/3 of a second and 1 second. Driving in heavy highway traffic was hard because of this. I'd signal, wait 5-10 seconds to make sure the guy wasn't going to race me (yes, this happens: see lane change signal, quickly close gap... ******* drivers), then give my car a little gas to move up a bit... back off the accelerator, start to merge over, hit the gas... and I can't accelerate to match speed. And I'm flooring it. And the guy behind me is panic braking.

Once I got a stick I'd just down shift to third, and stay there until the lane change was complete. Driver behind me isn't spooked by this, I merge smoothly, everyone is happy, and no near-accidents caused.

I hated that car. Ever since I got rid of it I refuse to drive an automatic. I can't parallel park one at all (I try once in a while). I can't keep them in lower gears when I'm merging between two different-speed lanes of traffic. I can't drive in the snow. I can drive like a god damn stunt car driver in the snow with a stick shift, make the car spin or slide sideways or whatever, nice and slow and easy; it points where I want and goes where I want, and sometimes these are completely different directions and it does it anyway.

But the road is not an empty parking lot, and there are people around, and I generally want my car to go nice and easy in a given direction, not spinning and sliding and skidding... and that can be extremely difficult. You think car stunts are hard? Driving in the snow is a car stunt. It requires extreme driver concentration, and the surface is unpredictable because its composition can change from patch to patch between ice and water and snow and slush. Sometimes you need to downshift and rev some to dig through the snow and keep control; other times you want to be in a higher gear with a light touch to keep torque off the ground. You need to feel what's happening and know which it is.

I love driving in the snow... sometimes I only go 5mph... sometimes I make the car crawl over humps and lumps and through slush or over powder ... make it creep around a bend ... it's not always about going fast. I'd love to race in the snow... cut off some trans-Canadian roads, equip a few Audis with snow tires, you're not going to be breaking 40-50mph anyway, have fun. But driving in the city, or even on the highway when you're bumper-deep in fresh packed white stuff and slush? That's a different animal. It's an awesome exercise in driver concentration. You go nice and slow, take it easy, feel what your wheels are doing, when they slip, when they pull... the car goes when you hit the gas, but it's losing traction, it's not spinning and sliding but it's floating a bit, take it easy...

... I probably wouldn't drive a rental car in the snow, though. That seems silly and non-sensible. Rental company might be pissed. Still, driving on the street is just a different kind of race: an obstacle course where getting to the other side without incident and without obstructing traffic is the major goal. Time isn't a big factor; awareness, control, and occasionally precision reaction (when a pedestrian wanders out from behind a parked car, or somebody pulls in front of you, or whatever) is. I have no confidence in my driving when I can't control the car... it'd be like riding a bike with a torque-driven gear shifter instead of levers; I'd look right up a big hill or offroad patch and decide there is no way I can go there.

i would either keep the car or have no car and no motorcycle....or get a cargo bike or electric assist bike on trailer...or do car-sharing. is this for a girl?

Why would I be a girl? O_o

why not buy a beater car instead of a motorcycle?
something like an old civic or crx hf that will be just as good on insurance and close on fuel economy in comparison to a motorcycle.

So I'm hoping I can ditch my car payment or recover liquid capital (by the time I'd sell my car, the car would be paid off-- in 2013), get a motorcycle insurance rate around $50/mo, drive the motorcycle relatively little, and be mostly taken care of.


Shop around and do so before you buy a motorcycle (some of the less expensive insurers won't insure sport bikes, and the more expensive ones can charge you the bike's full value every year or two for full coverage). I paid about $200 a year for full coverage on my last motorcycle which I bought brand new and liability only would have run about $100 a year.



What do I do if I suddenly need a car for some reason?

Rent one, although if you do that enough you'll spend more than you would to buy a cheap car (I splurged and paid $2000 for my previous truck, although my sister and some friends had $500 cars) and insurance ($1000 a year if you're young, a few hundred a year if you're not).

why not buy a beater car instead of a motorcycle?
something like an old civic or crx hf that will be just as good on insurance and close on fuel economy in comparison to a motorcycle.

I did both when I was young in the mid 1990s.

The motorcycle cost $80 a year to insure (liability only, perfect driving record)

The car cost $1200 a year to insure (liability only, perfect driving record)

Shop around and do so before you buy a motorcycle (some of the less expensive insurers won't insure sport bikes, and the more expensive ones can charge you the bike's full value every year or two for full coverage). I paid about $200 a year for full coverage on my last motorcycle which I bought brand new and liability only would have run about $100 a year.


Yeah full coverage on a motorcycle seems silly, since the one I want (Kawasaki 250R) is $4000 new and I'd look for lightly used 4th gen (2008+) for around half that.


I did both when I was young in the mid 1990s.

The motorcycle cost $80 a year to insure (liability only, perfect driving record)

The car cost $1200 a year to insure (liability only, perfect driving record)

This. $100/mo vs $6/mo.

Taxi services are there for that reason, too.

Be nice to people. Anyone who knows you don't own a car will practically beg you to borrow his/her car if you are nearly 100% reliant on your bikes.

Rent or buy a beater.

You do know that auto trans have more than one speed....right? They have little numbers and a stick that moves to those numbers.The gas pedal has more than one speed also.....

Rent or buy a beater.

You do know that auto trans have more than one speed....right? They have little numbers and a stick that moves to those numbers.The gas pedal has more than one speed also.....

Yeah but the auto transmission also says "Do not shift from the Drive position while in motion." Mine specifically claimed shifting into neutral would damage it.

Of course then you have tap shifters.

And I don't ride WOT all the time; I just can't deal with a car that doesn't accelerate as fast as it can/should. My Mazda 3 has a 2.3L engine, my Cobalt had a 2.2. I feather the gas a bit to raise to about 1200-1500 RPM, come smoothly off the clutch in first, and back off the gas if I think the car's grabbed a bit too hard (a 1500RPM start can be pretty aggressive) to avoid skidding the wheels. For just a little gas, I get a good pick-up, rolling off effortlessly.

The Cobalt would take off sluggishly, even if I bolted it to 3000RPM. I did test drive the 2008 Cobalt with a stick, parents wouldn't let me buy it; that car, as much as I hate it overall, has a nice engine. It's scary how fast it can rocket off from a stop, and I got pinned into the seat a few times underestimating it despite it being a low-end economy box. It won't keep you there, but you will feel it get off the line.

Amusingly, with front wheel drive I drive a bit easier than I'd like to. Like I said, a 1500RPM take-off is kind of aggressive; the car will slip and torque-steer somewhere. In a RWD vehicle, it'll take off nice.... you can pile on some torque if you wanna.

Regardless, I want my car to do exactly what I expect it to. I make turns, and suddenly cars pop over hills or come out from blind curves going 15-20 over the speed limit. People do unexpected things, like pull out into the street in front of me. Sometimes I'm trying to negotiate in heavy traffic, and I want to be precise and predictable. Anything that draws my attention away from everything around me and onto the car itself is unwanted.

I suppose a tap-shifter would work, though I like the precision I get from a clutch when trying to parallel park or do other low-speed maneuvers. Still, an automatic pinned to second or third gear is going to behave as expected, so eh. I'll get used to it.

But how many of THOSE are even out there?

Well, I would suggest becoming a Zipcar member, assuming you live near enough a Zipcar location to make it convenient. You will have to learn to drive an automatic. It's a skill that's useful.

I got my first car when I was 16 and I got a stick shift when I was like 24. After 8 years, I got rid of the auto and went, "Whoa, this is so much better!"

I suggest you permanently engage with your cell phone and learn to drive while talking on it, that seems like a useful skill.

Seriously though, you know how people box you in in a parking spot? I parallel park into those spots. I can't squeeze my body between the cars on either side; the spot's like 3 inches wider than the diagonal of my car.

I cannot precision-nudge my car 3/4 of an inch without a clutch pedal.

But that's just fancy. More importantly is I really feel like I'm approximating driving, like playing driving games on Sega, when I drive an auto. You can't rely on the car to behave with any consistency or precision; the brakes work properly, but the gas pedal is just a big green button marked "GO!" Don't worry about it, just zone out and let the car figure out what it's doing eh?

No good. It doesn't work for me.

I learned on standard as well, and only drove standard for many years, so I know what you're talking about. However, the automatic ones DO take you from place to place and perform the basic car tasks. Sorry but if you don't own a car, you need to know how to drive automatic, as all rental cars and zipcars are always automatic.

If you're entirely set on never driving automatic, you could put an ad on craigslist and see if anyone in your neighbourhood would be willing to rent you their standard transmission car when you need it from time to time. Aside from that you're probably stuck either owning a car or never using a car, if you refuse to drive automatic.

...However, the automatic ones DO take you from place to place and perform the basic car tasks. Sorry but if you don't own a car, you need to know how to drive automatic, as all rental cars and zipcars are always automatic.
...you're probably stuck either owning a car or never using a car, if you refuse to drive automatic.

+1 on this. One of the things about living car free is that you do sometimes NEED to drive. It's hard to, let's say, move 100 miles away without a car. And when this comes up, you're gonna need to borrow one. And say you've only got one friend who's willing to loan you their ride. And say that ride is an automatic. Going car free requires certain sacrifices, and one of those sacrifices is not being able to choose the car you drive when you need to use one. Its sounding like your best options (renting, zipcar) for when you need to drive are going to be automatic transmissions. Also, and this is just my opinion, but having a drivers license should mean you can operate both standard and automatic vehicles. Its just responsible.

You say you'd like to drive no more than 100 miles per month. What's keeping those miles from being cycled?

Blue, you make my head hurt. Do not get a motorcycle. Automatics can be shifted into any gear except reverse while underway. Enterprise (non-airport) will pick you up and take you to the office where you can rent late model vehicles for 1/2 of Zipcar rates. Many credit cards offer 3rd party insurance and you never have to pay for it if you pay the bill every month. I use mine soley for car rentals and pay them off pronto. That way I waive all the supplemental insurance on the rental. I'm going to bed.

H

Many credit cards offer 3rd party insurance and you never have to pay for it if you pay the bill every month. I use mine soley for car rentals and pay them off pronto. That way I waive all the supplemental insurance on the rental. I'm going to bed.

H
You will be paying plenty if you have a need for liability insurance after an accident with a rental car and are depending on your credit card company to pay one dime beyond covering damage to the rental car. You won't be sleeping so well then. Learn what the credit card insurance covers, and more importantly what it does not.

You will be paying plenty if you have a need for liability insurance after an accident with a rental car and are depending on your credit card company to pay one dime beyond covering damage to the rental car. You won't be sleeping so well then. Learn what the credit card insurance covers, and more importantly what it does not.

Yea, I found out mine won't cover the loss of use charges that the rental car company charges. I buy the optional insurance everytime. I much more relaxed while traveling knowing I have the most coverage possible while traveling. Well worth the price of a meal every day for my piece of mind.

Yea, I found out mine won't cover the loss of use charges that the rental car company charges. I buy the optional insurance everytime. I much more relaxed while traveling knowing I have the most coverage possible while traveling. Well worth the price of a meal every day for my piece of mind.
You are correct as far as the loss of use charges not being covered. Far worse for peace of mind is credit card "insurance" lack of coverage for liability for the other injured parties, both vehicle damage and possibly bankruptcy inducing medical expenses.

Hopefully Leisesturm will wake up before he rents his next vehicle and spend some money to buy real protection instead of relying on a fantasy about insurance coverage.