Fifty Plus (50+) - Do the TdF riders need some basic Paceline training????

I don't recall ever seeing as many crashes......They say they're Nervous because of the winds, weather????

I do know that after lots of mile, day after day you lose some "alertness" so maybe that is contributing to it.

Hopefully it will calm down a bit and we'll stop seeing as many riders strewn out everywhere on the ground..........Otherwise it might just be the last rider not to crash wins.

(Btw we had a fatality over the weekend in a race in the mountains when the racer crossed over the intersection in a downhill and went under an oncoming car........I have not heard what caused him to cross over into the oncoming lane but I suspect too much speed for a curve on a downhill)

It is totally bizarre watching all the crashes this year, the most bizarre was today when the TV car swerved over into the break away group and taking out two riders. You name the bone and it's been broken in this tour.....weird! Maybe the group will be more spread out this week as they ride in the mountains....I hope the crashes stop!

Video of the car crash is quite a shock. Here it is: http://ewoud.home.xs4all.nl/cycling/20110710_tourdefrance_carcrash.html

Video of the car crash is quite a shock. Here it is: http://ewoud.home.xs4all.nl/cycling/20110710_tourdefrance_carcrash.html

I couldn't believe that when it happened. It almost looked like it was done on purpose. I would like to think not.

I couldn't believe that when it happened. It almost looked like it was done on purpose. I would like to think not.

Well, to be fair, it was either hit a big tree on the left, or punt some guys into the bushes...:rolleyes:

They should put that driver on a bike and the two guys he put on the deck should drive him into some barbed wire. That'd be a pretty even trade.

Well, to be fair, it was either hit a big tree on the left, or punt some guys into the bushes...:rolleyes:

They should put that driver on a bike and the two guys he put on the deck should drive him into some barbed wire. That'd be a pretty even trade.

Or step on the brakes to let the riders through -- there was absolutely no excuse for this accident! Even clipping the tree would have been better. Not trying to pass at all would have been even better.

Or step on the brakes to let the riders through -- there was absolutely no excuse for this accident! Even clipping the tree would have been better. Not trying to pass at all would have been even better.

Agree.... no excuse for that. None.

I don't know, that driver looked like he missed the tree by at least a foot and 1/2. He would have been better off sideswiping the tree then taking out the riders. Also looks like he got his outside wheels caught and then over corrected.
He also ignored tour directors orders to yield to the team car and tried to speed around the 5. What an idiot and I feel so bad for Johnny Hoogerland, dam that must have hurt...

Or step on the brakes...

Seems that driver needs the same lesson that drivers on our roads need.

You aren't the only person to notice that there have been a lot more crashes in pro racing recently. Compared to a few decades ago, this sport is kind of a mess.

Good thing that race radios weren't banned, otherwise it would have been dangerous :twitchy:

I haven't watched much pro racing in the past fifteen years. What I find noticeably different now compared to decades past is the lack of smooth riding. My hypothesis is that since the riders began training with power output data, there has been a much greater emphasis on power at the expense of technique. It looks to me like the entire peloton needs to spend a few months on rollers and playing bike polo with a wiffle ball to improve their skills. Of course, many of the crashes have nothing to do with the smoothness of the riders. There's not a lot you can do when a car moves over to slap you. It's equally hard to deal with the constantly changing traction of wet/dry roads.

Jppe, sorry to hear of the cycling fatality in your area.

It takes the joy out of an otherwise wonderful day.

Just seems so weird that so many of the "Accidents" have involved big name riders.

I don't know exactly why there are more crashes this year, but they are always part of the sport. The idea that these guys need "basic paceline training" is patently ridiculous though - no one makes it to the TDF without being an accomplished bike rider, with skills well beyond any "basic training". And there's nothing to suggest that the accidents have been the fault of the more junior riders. Finally, the accidents have not been in pacelines.

Rider training is not the problem. Seems to me to be more of an issue with too many riders, too many cars/motorcycles, too many spectators, and too tight roads. And they should go back to having a prologue time trail so that the GC guys get separated from the pack earlier on.

- Mark

Maybe since none of them are doping they are having withdrawal jitters?

Funny few are talking about the directors pushing riders hard? Hmmmmm. Gotta wonder.

Seems that driver needs the same lesson that drivers on our roads need.

And that's really scary. If someone riding in the TdF doesn't have better judgment about riding on the open road with bikes, what hope do we have that it will get much better in terms of the average driver?

Funny few are talking about the directors pushing riders hard? Hmmmmm. Gotta wonder.

As the money gets bigger, which it has, getting sponsors had gotten harder. There does seem to be some logic to thinking that riders are pushed harder to get in the limelight. At the same time. the "science of racing" has resulted in real improvement in performance. The speeds at which they're riding is astounding. There were also more riders in the peloton at the start of this year's race. I also wonder if with the GC less of a given this year if there is more risk taking going on to try and secure a podium spot. Finally, like many things in life, sometimes you just run into a string of bad luck.

Worth noting that fields have gotten smaller over the years, and roads have gotten better. There have been very large crowds, and huge numbers of cars and motorcycles, for decades now. As for speeds, well, they haven't gone up as much as many people seem to think. The average was around 35 km/h in the 1960s and about 40 km/h in the 2000s. I don't think a couple of mph is going to make much of a difference in frequency and severity of falls.

Is there more pressure on Tour riders these days? Almost certainly, and that may have something to do with it. It's also worth noting that western European riders have been complaining about the lack of bike handling skills and pack etiquette of eastern bloc riders for more than a decade now. Maybe they have a point.

It has been a strange tour, the guy on the media car takes out two riders rather than tap his brakes. The riders were in a 5 man break away for crying out loud. I mean, it wasn't as if he did not KNOW they were there.

Another rider was taken out by a motorcycle.

Also, many riders are going down to various crashes or they are being delayed waiting for the road to clear.

It is almost as if the tour is going to go to the guy who manages to avoid trouble.

It is almost as if the tour is going to go to the guy who manages to avoid trouble.

You mean the guy the official vehicles conveniently manage to avoid running off the road?

Video of the car crash is quite a shock. Here it is: http://ewoud.home.xs4all.nl/cycling/20110710_tourdefrance_carcrash.html

If any of the riders involved were seriously hurt you can bet that there will be law suits. What I wonder, is why the heck they permit traffic on those roads during the race. Would make sense to simply close the road the day of the race. It's one day a year, if you tell people a month before the race that the road will be closed that day, it shouldn't be a problem.

I can't imagine jumping back on the bike and continuing to ride with these injuries.


(NSFW - graphic injury photos)
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181730

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181772

I can't imagine jumping back on the bike and continuing to ride with these injuries.

(NSFW - graphic injury photos)
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181730

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-9/photos/181772

They're really difficult to look at, much less imagine how he could have ridden again right after! I read this morning he required 33 stitches to close up some the bad ones (like the one on the side of his knee).

Pro racers aren't any less skilled now then they were before. They're actually better, on average, than back in the day. Its the race that has changed.

The TdF courses have gotten more technical. The Tour counts for a lot more for every rider than it used to. Every domestique had to work his ass off just to get in and needs to show that he can do his job. There's no single rider and team (i.e. Armtrong) that's the big Patron who has everyone else cowed. And this year the course causes every team to want to be up front even more than they were before.

Plus, we have better coverage now, so we get to see more of the crashes. Back in the 80s' there was essentially zero tv coverage in the US. Maybe 30 minutes total on Wide World of Sports. There were plenty of crashes then too but we only got to read about them in Winning, weeks after the tour.

The french TV car was explicitly told by race control not to pass the riders and did it anyhow. That driver should have been pulled from the caravan just for that, even if he hadn't hit any riders. It looked like his tires were caught on the edge of the pavement and he panicked and swerved as the tree was coming up.

If any of the riders involved were seriously hurt you can bet that there will be law suits. What I wonder, is why the heck they permit traffic on those roads during the race. Would make sense to simply close the road the day of the race. It's one day a year, if you tell people a month before the race that the road will be closed that day, it shouldn't be a problem.

There isn't any traffic on the road...that was a french tv car.

They're really difficult to look at, much less imagine how he could have ridden again right after! I read this morning he required 33 stitches to close up some the bad ones (like the one on the side of his knee).

I'm still trying not to think about how painful it must have been to drag the elastic of the fresh kit over some of those. Hopefully he had some very friendly helpers willing to hold everything stretched until it could be settled into place.

What I wonder, is why the heck they permit traffic on those roads during the race. Would make sense to simply close the road the day of the race. They do close the course to public traffic. The offending driver was part of the race caravan.
It's one day a year, if you tell people a month before the race that the road will be closed that day, it shouldn't be a problem. The route has been general knowledge since last fall (?) when it was announced by the organizers. And we ain't talkin bout the USA, where Bubba Sixpack regards cyclists as a nuisance to be exterminated. Europeans "get it".

See embedded comments above.

SP
Bend, OR

There isn't any traffic on the road...that was a french tv car.

I still think that there will be legal repercussions from this, an injured rider who ends up unable to continue, could potentially sue French TV, Le Tour de France, and a whole bunch of others, especially if it's a career ending injury.

If any of the riders involved were seriously hurt you can bet that there will be law suits. What I wonder, is why the heck they permit traffic on those roads during the race. Would make sense to simply close the road the day of the race. It's one day a year, if you tell people a month before the race that the road will be closed that day, it shouldn't be a problem.

Hello Wogster,

They don't allow traffic on the roads during the race. The car that was passing was a French television car that is part of the race. There is a whole caravan of cars and motorcycles in front of and behind the race. Typically it's motorcycles with television cameramen or photographers on the back that going zipping around the racers. Team cars also move through depending on the circumstances of the race.

What I haven't seen before is yesterday's accident and the accident a few days before is a fast-moving car or motorcycle clipping riders.

Regarding the accidents in general, I don't think there are a lot more than in a typical TdF. I guess I'd like to see some statistics, but I can remember a lot of Tours where favorites crashed and either got hurt or were put out of the race. Maybe back in the 1970s and 1980s when the average speed were a lot lower, the crashes weren't as devastating.

It was because of all of the crashes in the early 2000s that the UCI changed the 1 Km rule to a 3 Km rule.

This year may be a bit worse but not so much so that it is outside what I've seen in the past.

What I haven't seen before is yesterday's accident and the accident a few days before is a fast-moving car or motorcycle clipping riders.


There was one in the Giro about 5 years ago. Motorbike was passing a lone rider, who moved over into the motorbike's path. The motor's saddlebag clipped the rider's bars and he slammed to the ground.

Pro racers aren't any less skilled now then they were before. They're actually better, on average, than back in the day.

How do you know this to be true?

"Do the TdF riders need some basic Paceline training????"

Of course not. The worst rider in the peloton has awesome skills.

That is bizarre,

I bike commute into work to and from downtown San Francisco and there are lots of bikes and lots of cars. Let me tell you I have seen more wrecks on the Tour than I have on the streets of San Francisco. I got into work today and people who don't even ride bikes were commenting to me about the accidents!

The car has been excluded from the remainder of the race. No word about any additional sanctions.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/france-television-vehicle-excluded-from-tour-after-collision

The car has been excluded from the remainder of the race. No word about any additional sanctions.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/france-television-vehicle-excluded-from-tour-after-collision

As you can easily imagine, there is a huge amount of energy in the Euro press to identify the driver. Easy to understand - and whilst I share the anger at an unnecessary and unskilled manoeuvre causing such harm, I have to commend the commissars (who must know who was driving) for keeping schtum. Identification to an angry media would prejudice and prevent any legal steps.

There's the usual ugly 'woman driver' spew, because the person who was filmed parking the car at the end of the stage (and incidentally bumping adjacent cars) was female. However, the front seat passenger was white faced, shaking, and hiding his face. I don't think the driver involved would have turned up in the driver seat.

The car has been excluded from the remainder of the race. No word about any additional sanctions.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/france-television-vehicle-excluded-from-tour-after-collision

I heard today, that they told the motorcycles to stay away from the riders as well.