Touring - Using actual campgrounds (not stealth camping)

I read a bunch of messages here once on people sleeping in cemetaries etc and wondered if some of you people actually use real camping sites. I just want to know if you think it's worth it, and if not, why not?

It is worth it..Showers, restrooms, electrical outlets to charge batteries, picnic tables with covered areas.

I'd think more people would use campgrounds than would use cemeteries.

Europe has lots of really nice campgrounds, because lots of people,
even with cars,
tent camp, .. on their generous holidays .. that they voted for.

I use official campgrounds most of the time for a hot shower and easy access to drinking water. I think most people do, too. I free-camp when I'm too tired to search or ride to an official site, when I don't feel like paying 35$ to be surrounded by RVs (http://www.borealphoto.com/Cycling/Atlantic-Canada/Photos/DSC0678a/351689189_LyxWr-XL-1.jpg), but mostly because some free sites are simply better (http://www.borealphoto.com/Cycling/Bas-St-Laurent-Cote-Nord/Bas-St-Laurent-C%C3%B4te-Nord/DSC4950ab/637660552_nAcuS-XL-8.jpg).

I like to ride over 100 miles per day, often on unpaved roads. If a campground has a shower, it is always my first choice.

Bikes pay only $5 in California State Parks. But, the best thing is that no reservations are required AND you won't be turned away. That means if the bike site is full they will find another spot in the park for you to camp. You can go to the choicest parks at the peak of the season and not worry about having a place to stay.

Not sure what you read here, but given the choice between a campground or a cemetery, the decision is pretty obvious.
I suppose if you need a spot to flop for the night and nothing else is available, a cemetery is one where you probably wouldn't be bothered, at least by anything human.
Another consideration is that a cemetery usually has a church nearby. A back churchyard is usually a wonderfully accepting and accomodating place to stay the night.

Showers sound good, but they aren't always necessary, kinda a hedonistic choice if there is swimable water, or lots of water you can sponge bath in. My beef with camps is they often aren't terribly nice, or well maintained these days. You pay the same to occupy a handkerchief sized piece of mud as the RV guy with a bus. Increasingly even public parks are catering to the RVs (not against them by the way, just a value proposition thing).

I just did a trip by car with the kids, the annual migration. I have done the same trip by bike several times. It is about 2 weeks by bike, and I did it alone. That works out to about 14 camp grounds at say 35 each or 490. Doing the same thing in a car with 5 we stayed in one camp ground, it is nearly possible to do it in one day. That is 35 bucks. Plus gas, about 150. For 5 people. Food worked out to about 10 meals for the 5 of us. Could be about 30 on the tour. Return trip by tour on train is about 200. So my point is that my cheap bike tour which allows me the opportunity to get out there for a long time, ends up costing a fortune, it is actually more, there is usually gear, etc... So to keep the price reasonable, I have to make an effort to do stuff on the cheap. I also personally try to get out on the road. I dont have time to sit around an sight see at a park, and the parks are not always scenic anyway. I may arrive at dusk and leave at sunrise. Parks just don't cut it. And there can be long stretches with no parks.

European campgrounds range from a small grassy field with shower and toilet block to massive holiday parks with fancy swimming pools and thousands of campers and RVs. These huge ones can be pretty grim and would not be my first choice.
Most of the medium sized ones have a special area for small tents so you get a bit of a small-campsite feel.

There is a sliding scale of costs so campers pay much less than RV or caravan owners. There is a charge for the pitch and for each camper so solo travellers pay more than small groups.

Things I like: powerful hot showers, good coffee, good security, some company for dinner.
Things I dont like: Crazy campers driving on the grass at night, loving couples who pitch up as close to your tent as possible on an empty site and are a bit too loud, kids jumping over guylines.

Stealth, campgrounds, hotels, I use them all when they suit my purpose. I even stayed the night in my cousins back yard one night, while they where gone on vacation! Thing is, many of the campgrounds around here have gone to RV only. I hate to try and sleep on a crushed gravel bed next to some RV, it's like crashing in the local trailer park!

Bikes pay only $5 in California State Parks. But, the best thing is that no reservations are required AND you won't be turned away. That means if the bike site is full they will find another spot in the park for you to camp. You can go to the choicest parks at the peak of the season and not worry about having a place to stay.
That's the first I've ever heard of that.

BLM land. Thank God.

Personally I prefer camping in campgrounds to camping outside a designated campground. I don't mind camping wherever occasionally, but in general I prefer to have toilets, showers, etc. available.

I am not big on stealth camping. I do like to camp for free when I can though. So places like small town parks and church yards are frequently my choice. These are the norm in the plains for me.

Places with cheap hiker/biker sites are my first choice where they exist (like California and Oregon state parks), but much of where I tour there are none. I usually avoid KOA type places or anywhere with site costs much over $12 if at all possible.

On the TA for example I think we stayed free more than half the time with no need for stealth. I think our campsite cost per night averaged below $5 per person even if you include the few times we got a room, yurt, cabin, or teepee. It helped that three of us shared a tent and therefore a site or room fee where we were not charged per person.

That's the first I've ever heard of that.

It's been that way for years and years. For a few years it was only $1! Then it went to $3, then to $5, but it is still a great deal. Some county parks here in California also have this policy. It's too bad that they don't have a clue on the East coast and elsewhere. It's nice not to worry about having a place to stay. Most state campgrounds have showers and many have wi-fi.

I'm doing a little three night tour, this week. All three nights I'm staying at campgrounds. On the second night out, I'm paying $20 for a campsite with water and electricity, so I can recharge my lights and electronic items. The other nights, I'm paying $5 for "tent" sites. I'll still have access to showers and water, nearby.

Some of the H/B campsites in California have gone up to $8,OH MY!,still a decent deal.There are campgrounds in California that get booked months,sometimes years in advance,if you can get there hiking or biking,they will not turn you away.There are some good things in California besides weather.

I like campgrounds where available and use them when I can.Lots of places I wander in the desert,there are no campgrounds,so it's sleep when you get tired,not so tired you sleep in a wash.

Depends on the costs and what is available. Campgrounds in NC range from $15-$35 a night at state parks with private ones running $50+(motel range), cemeteries and church yards can be free (though I often make a small donation). I have also had good luck with VFD's (Volunteer Fire Departments). I usually try to get showers and electricity at least twice a week, with one night being a motel with access to laundry facilities. Recently all of my "tours" have been S24O's so it hasn't been as much of an issue.

Aaron :)

Bikes pay only $5 in California State Parks. But, the best thing is that no reservations are required AND you won't be turned away. That means if the bike site is full they will find another spot in the park for you to camp. You can go to the choicest parks at the peak of the season and not worry about having a place to stay.

From my understanding it's the same with COE campgrounds. $8 a night and guaranteed spot.

Bikes pay only $5 in California State Parks. But, the best thing is that no reservations are required AND you won't be turned away. That means if the bike site is full they will find another spot in the park for you to camp. You can go to the choicest parks at the peak of the season and not worry about having a place to stay.
Note that not all California State Parks have these "Hike and Bike" sites which don't allow or require reservations. They're common in the parks along the coastal touring route, but not frequently found in other parts of the state. And even the ones with official Hike & Bike sites do not guarantee that you won't be turned away if the regular site is full. While they do usually find some place for non-motorized travelers to pitch their tent (frequently in a day-use picnic area so you have to set up camp late and take it down early), they reserve the right to turn people away.

IMO they usually are not worth it. I have absolutely no problem with the $5 per night California charges, but much more than that is well, too much for me while on a longish tour.

Note that not all California State Parks have these "Hike and Bike" sites which don't allow or require reservations. They're common in the parks along the coastal touring route, but not frequently found in other parts of the state. And even the ones with official Hike & Bike sites do not guarantee that you won't be turned away if the regular site is full. While they do usually find some place for non-motorized travelers to pitch their tent (frequently in a day-use picnic area so you have to set up camp late and take it down early), they reserve the right to turn people away.

Luckily, I've never been turned away, but, then again, I've never seen the H&B carpeted wall to wall with campers.
And, that's in Southern California at the choicest parks at the peak of the season.
It's best to check ahead to see if they have a H&B and what their policy is.

It's been that way for years and years. For a few years it was only $1! Then it went to $3, then to $5, but it is still a great deal. Some county parks here in California also have this policy. It's too bad that they don't have a clue on the East coast and elsewhere. It's nice not to worry about having a place to stay. Most state campgrounds have showers and many have wi-fi. I didn't know it but I can see the camping on the cheap for bicyclist but I cannot imagine not being turned away under any circumstances. There are a lot of California parks that would be just about horrible to stay in on a busy holiday weekend, especially if they don't turn people away when the campground is full. Wouldn't there be a law about capacity for safety and sanitation concerns?

Some of the H/B campsites in California have gone up to $8,OH MY!,still a decent deal.There are campgrounds in California that get booked months,sometimes years in advance,if you can get there hiking or biking,they will not turn you away.There are some good things in California besides weather.

I like campgrounds where available and use them when I can.Lots of places I wander in the desert,there are no campgrounds,so it's sleep when you get tired,not so tired you sleep in a wash.
I'm still having trouble with "won't turn you away".
I'm addicted to the desert SW. I've tossed my bag just anywhere hundreds of nights. I prefer it that way. Of coarse I was hiking. I'm yet to discover being closer to civilization (bicycling) but my day is coming and I think I'll be fine. I think I'd freak out if people stumbled across my path though. That would be weird for me. Can't stomach a KOA. WalMart of camping.

Some of the H/B campsites in California have gone up to $8,OH MY!,still a decent deal.There are campgrounds in California that get booked months,sometimes years in advance,if you can get there hiking or biking,they will not turn you away.There are some good things in California besides weather.

I like campgrounds where available and use them when I can.Lots of places I wander in the desert,there are no campgrounds,so it's sleep when you get tired,not so tired you sleep in a wash.
In fact, I'm so impressed with the H/B thing that I'm setting my eyes on CA again. I just finished a 2300 motorcycle tour there. A plug for California's beauty: http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29250
I'm right here. I'd die to ride some of this by bicycle.

When cycling south of the Canadian/United States Border I've rode with another, so although we came with full camping gear, we shared costs, went before the tourist season (before the yearly raised prices) and stayed in motels. The big advantage to using affordable motels over campgrounds is being able to lock everything inside, and then go sightseeing etc. Stealth camping, or regular campgrounds pretty much nails you to your campsite if you value your bike and gear. Those of you interested in touring cheaply should consider British Columbia in Canada. You can always find somewhere to camp for nothing, and the scenery is fantastic.

Cycle touring is a considerably more expensive way to cover miles than by car or public transit. Overnighting fees can really add up. That's as good a reason as any for sleeping on the cheap when possible, especially on long tours.

I've noticed that at many parks it's often not too hard to stealth just outside. Nearly always quiter too. Buy an inexpensive day pass to use the facilities.

That being said, I do get a better night's sleep when camped in a fee park. Usually. And always, when camped in a motel.

Can't stomach a KOA. WalMart of camping.

I only stayed at one KOA, in Banning, California. It was a lovely campsite, with really friendly owners/managers. This was in january 2010

Maybe not typical of all KOAs, I have no idea, but I thought I'd better stick up for this one :)

My "Hike and Bike" experience was varied that winter in SoCal. Worked great at some places, discontinued at others and I had to pay $35. Even the rangers were at times confused as what their H&B policy was. Some campsites were closed because of storm damage or budget cuts. One was open only at weekends...

I stealth camp too, but the biggest draw of organized campsites is HOT SHOWERS!!! :D

I didn't know it but I can see the camping on the cheap for bicyclist but I cannot imagine not being turned away under any circumstances. There are a lot of California parks that would be just about horrible to stay in on a busy holiday weekend, especially if they don't turn people away when the campground is full. Wouldn't there be a law about capacity for safety and sanitation concerns?

Cars without a reservation will be turned away but not bikes. There's no way there is enough bikes to cause "safety and sanitation concerns". I've heard of hellish campgrounds but I've never been to nor would I go to one.

Cars without a reservation will be turned away but not bikes. There's no way there is enough bikes to cause "safety and sanitation concerns". I've heard of hellish campgrounds but I've never been to nor would I go to one.
I've even seen an Oregon State Campground that was closed for renovation re-open for cyclists only. It was last year or the year before that Humbug Mountain opened for cyclists only. It was a good thing too, since I arrived there late in the day after fighting a headwind for the last eighty miles of a 180 mile day.

I only stayed at one KOA, in Banning, California. It was a lovely campsite, with really friendly owners/managers. This was in january 2010

Maybe not typical of all KOAs, I have no idea, but I thought I'd better stick up for this one :)


I've had good experiences with KOAs in the past too.

It's been that way for years and years. For a few years it was only $1! Then it went to $3, then to $5, but it is still a great deal. Some county parks here in California also have this policy. It's too bad that they don't have a clue on the East coast and elsewhere. It's nice not to worry about having a place to stay. Most state campgrounds have showers and many have wi-fi.State campgrounds that I stayed at September 2010 between San Francisco and San Diego along the Pacific Coast, charged $6 to $12 per night for hiker/biker. And if hiker/biker was full, they expected cyclist to pay the full price for a motoring campsite.

My negative mention of "KOA type places" was not directed at the KOA chain itself. As that type of campground goes they are fine. My issue is that most of the KOA like places we stopped the price was in the $30 per site range. This is not without exception and some either had more reasonable prices or offered us a discount.

That said I don't think I have ever stopped at a KOA that was less than $20. Once I am in the $20 and up range I start wondering if cheap motel might be a better deal.

I've stayed at some nice KOAs, but had mostly negative experiences with them.

Noisy, crowded, overpriced. 9 times out of 10. Generally my last choice of campground.

Those of you interested in touring cheaply should consider British Columbia in Canada. You can always find somewhere to camp for nothing, and the scenery is fantastic.

When camping free in BC as a foreigner, don't you need a permit? If so, do you have any idea of it's cost?

When camping free in BC as a foreigner, don't you need a permit? If so, do you have any idea of it's cost?

Whether you're a foreigner or not, you need a permit to be in a national park, but national parks don't exist everywhere.

You can see where the national parks are in Canada on this map:
http://atlas.nrcan.gc.ca/site/english/maps/peopleandsociety/tourismattractions/ecotourism/nationalparksincanada

Meanwhile, our state legislature is acting like a bunch of stubbon schoolkids. We have a state shutdown that includes all of the state parks.
Agree with the KOA comments. Overpriced but generally good facilities. Though I've not found them to be a good spot for any peace and quiet.

Whether you're a foreigner or not, you need a permit to be in a national park, but national parks don't exist everywhere.

Thanks, I had known about the N Parks, but I was under the impression a permit was needed even outside of the N park environment. I've very happy to know that is not the case.:)

Stayed at the Missoula, MT KOA on June 29th at the start of a tour. Picked a tent site with a partial shelter, which came in handy when evening rain showers passed through. Power for phone charging. Firewood delivered to the site. Had a nice hot tub soak. The tent sites are segregated from the RV sites, so we didn't jave to put up with generator noise. A big plus is that it's a two block walk to REI, where I could pick up fuel and a few odds and ends. And it was near the airport, which was great for us since we flew in that afternoon. Fortunately, Missoula is a far cry from Ohare in terms of air traffic. Overall, a nice place that added an element of convenience.

I have stayed in other KOAs and this one was above average. Later in the tour we had the option of staying at the KOA in Butte but opted for a motel room after reading some bad reviews of the place. We passed the place riding to the hotel and our decision was confirmed. Looked like a trailer/RV parking lot woth small spaces. And it was oh so close to the interstate highway.

State campgrounds that I stayed at September 2010 between San Francisco and San Diego along the Pacific Coast, charged $6 to $12 per night for hiker/biker. And if hiker/biker was full, they expected cyclist to pay the full price for a motoring campsite.

I've never seen a hiker/biker campsite full.

I've even seen an Oregon State Campground that was closed for renovation re-open for cyclists only. It was last year or the year before that Humbug Mountain opened for cyclists only. It was a good thing too, since I arrived there late in the day after fighting a headwind for the last eighty miles of a 180 mile day.

That's really cool.

If you're lucky enough to find a Corps of Enginers area,you will find them clean and cheap,sometimes crowded. Like everything else,it depends on what time of the year you go. One good campground here is found at the Beaver Lake Tailwaters near Eureka Springs,Ar. It is often full,but what I like about it they have a fill over area.They have tent only places and RV access in seperate areas,but you can use a tent in a RV area but not the other way around.Cost about $10-$20.

The fill over spot is uncrowded for the most part,but you can't build a fire there.Camp stove is a must.

I don't have any experience bike touring (yet), but I have many years experience hiking. In Europe (France, Spain, Britain), I typically alternate between stealth camping and hotels. Stealth camping is free, so depending on the ratio between stealth camping and hotels, I can cut my budget to whatever I want. Organized campgrounds are a last resort. They are just too noisy and I don't feel comfortable leaving my possessions behind when I go into town for shopping, dinner or sightseeing. But if I can't leave my possession behind so as to into town in the evening, then it is better to eat in town in the afternoon then continue a few more miles into the countryside and stealth camp in the woods.

In the United States, all my hiking was in the mountains where organized campgrounds weren't available. When I do go bike touring in the United States this fall (backroads of nevada and death valley) my plan is to alternate between wild camping ("stealth" is an unnecessarily dramatic term when we are talking about the middle of the desert with nobody around for 50 miles) for a few days, followed by a motel where I can wash up.

Stealth camping takes quite a bit of experience. In particular, you need to learn how to wash up from a water bottle and also shave with cold water if you are a clean-shaven man. And you need to learn how to keep clothing from smelling (loose 100% nylon is the secret in warm weather, avoid tight-fitting polyester and cotton, use wool for socks). You also need to carry the minimum possible amount of gear, because the more you carry, the more you have to keep clean. I typically carry a single set of clothing, plus a pair of shorts for sleeping in. All my clothing can be washed in cold water in a sink using the same shampoo I use for my hair (anything gentle enough for hair is gentle enough for clothing).

I would never sleep a cemetery. It is very disrespectful, since you'll have to take an early morning p*ss won't you? There are plenty of better alternatives, provided you get away from the big cities. You can wild camp legally almost anywhere on national forest or BLM land. It is possible to stealth camp in privately owned forests, such as the huge paper company forests in Maine or Alabama, or the small patches of forestland all over Europe. Just don't make a fire or otherwise bring attention to yourself. It helps to have a narrow one-person tent, since there is often a shortage of cleared ground in forests. If I were traveling as part of a couple, I'd bring two one-person tents and plan to use motels/hotels more than when traveling alone. I'd certainly not want to be crowed into an organized campground as a couple.

If you're lucky enough to find a Corps of Enginers area,you will find them clean and cheap,sometimes crowded.

BLM sites can be nice, too. We just stayed at one along the Big Hole River a mile west of Divide, MT. Pretty quiet location, except for the coyotes. No showers, but the river is right there. Great driking water. Vault toilettes, but they were very clean and did not smell one bit. The host had a pile of wood, axe and chopping block. You could chop all the free wood you wanted and he would drive it to your site if you wished. Only $6/site/night. Years ago I stayed at a nice BLM place outside of Sandppoint, ID on Lake Pendorielle that had showers and flush toilettes.

I like the cemetery idea.

BLM land. Thank God.

This.

I don't have any experience bike touring (yet), but I have many years experience hiking. In Europe (France, Spain, Britain), I typically alternate between stealth camping and hotels. Stealth camping is free, so depending on the ratio between stealth camping and hotels, I can cut my budget to whatever I want. Organized campgrounds are a last resort. They are just too noisy and I don't feel comfortable leaving my possessions behind when I go into town for shopping, dinner or sightseeing. But if I can't leave my possession behind so as to into town in the evening, then it is better to eat in town in the afternoon then continue a few more miles into the countryside and stealth camp in the woods.

In the United States, all my hiking was in the mountains where organized campgrounds weren't available. When I do go bike touring in the United States this fall (backroads of nevada and death valley) my plan is to alternate between wild camping ("stealth" is an unnecessarily dramatic term when we are talking about the middle of the desert with nobody around for 50 miles) for a few days, followed by a motel where I can wash up.

Stealth camping takes quite a bit of experience. In particular, you need to learn how to wash up from a water bottle and also shave with cold water if you are a clean-shaven man. And you need to learn how to keep clothing from smelling (loose 100% nylon is the secret in warm weather, avoid tight-fitting polyester and cotton, use wool for socks). You also need to carry the minimum possible amount of gear, because the more you carry, the more you have to keep clean. I typically carry a single set of clothing, plus a pair of shorts for sleeping in. All my clothing can be washed in cold water in a sink using the same shampoo I use for my hair (anything gentle enough for hair is gentle enough for clothing).

I would never sleep a cemetery. It is very disrespectful, since you'll have to take an early morning p*ss won't you? There are plenty of better alternatives, provided you get away from the big cities. You can wild camp legally almost anywhere on national forest or BLM land. It is possible to stealth camp in privately owned forests, such as the huge paper company forests in Maine or Alabama, or the small patches of forestland all over Europe. Just don't make a fire or otherwise bring attention to yourself. It helps to have a narrow one-person tent, since there is often a shortage of cleared ground in forests. If I were traveling as part of a couple, I'd bring two one-person tents and plan to use motels/hotels more than when traveling alone. I'd certainly not want to be crowed into an organized campground as a couple.
You are my brother.

I don't really get the cemetary idea. Most cemetaries don't really have much cover. Headstones won't hide a tent, so you're somewhat exposed. There's probably no water. Caretakers show up early in the morning, and aren't likely to be happy with your presence. I won't even get into how little the dead folks are going to care for your presence. Doesn't really sound like a cool idea to me.

I don't really get the cemetary idea. Most cemetaries don't really have much cover. Headstones won't hide a tent, so you're somewhat exposed. There's probably no water. Caretakers show up early in the morning, and aren't likely to be happy with your presence. I won't even get into how little the dead folks are going to care for your presence. Doesn't really sound like a cool idea to me.

When I did my Trans Am back in 1977 cemeteries were my preferred choice. I don't fear dead people, only certain live ones. However many people are spooked by cemeteries for some reason. I camped in a couple of small town parks and was harassed. I have never been harassed when camping in a cemetery, most of the ones I used didn't have caretakers that were on site. Plenty of mausoleums and large headstones can and will hide a tent. FWIW I do respect the graves and don't pitch my tent directly on an occupied spot if possible.

Aaron:)