Professional Cycling For the Fans - TdF is turning in to bloodsport

This is the first time I've ever watched the TdF. It's only the second stage race I've ever watched. The first was the 2011 TdCali. I can't believe how many crashes there are. Is this normal? Broken noses, broken hip, cars knocking leaders out of the race, motorcycles laying in the road, spectators causing massive pile-ups...WTF is going on? That guy flying in to the barbed wire was insane, and he finished the race with blood streaming down his legs! I have a whole new appreciation for the toughness of these guys.

Will the driver of that car face criminal charges?

Welcome to the Pro forum.

take this to the 217

Carnage, pain. Sounds about right.

Whoa!

The fastest move EVAR!

Bike racing is kind of a bloodsport.

Always has been.

Will the driver of that car face criminal charges?

If he escapes the lynch mob...

So, this kind of stuff is pretty normal in the TdF? That car hitting the breakaway still blows my mind. You just don't see that kind of stuff in professional sports, especially in something as huge as the TdF.

the car was pretty unusual. I've seen a couple of accidents where the moto has clipped a rider. I remember in the Vuelta a couple of years ago one of the american riders got run over by a moto...can't remember who, maybe Zabriskie?
I've never seen one of the tv cars do that, they're usually pretty skilled. And of course, team cars are driven mostly by ex-riders who have great driving skills and have done grand tours so they know what they're doing. That was just completely insane!

So, this kind of stuff is pretty normal in the TdF? That car hitting the breakaway still blows my mind. You just don't see that kind of stuff in professional sports, especially in something as huge as the TdF.

Did you catch the officiating in the USvBra women's match yesterday. That was right on par.

Did you catch the officiating in the USvBra women's match yesterday. That was right on par.

Didn't catch it. What happened?

no they are just getting more in depth footage than in past years.

anyone else getting the helicopter noise stuck in their head? Its there everytime I watch a TV.

This is a little above average for a grand tour, and a little more dramatic, but not much.

Last year Frank Schleck broke his collarbone during Stage 3; Armstrong basically dropped out of GC competition because of a couple of small crashes on Stage 8. Stage 2 was so bad that the riders basically neutralized the stage (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/le-tour-de-crash-big-names-come-tumbling-down-on-another-day-of-carnage-20100706-zxti.html).

There are lots of crashes during the first week or so of the tour. The riders are antsy, everyone wants to be on the front, the flat stages are at a very fast pace. It's a part of racing.

On a side note, you don't go to jail for getting into an accident unless you've done something else illegal, such as drive while intoxicated or openly intend to harm someone. I really don't understand why everyone wants a driver who genuinely made a mistake to go to jail.

anyone else getting the helicopter noise stuck in their head? Its there everytime I watch a TV.
Ugh, I hate that noise. I really wish they would cut the sound, or at least tone it down, for the chopper shots.

There's a report floating around that race radio specifically told the driver not to pass.

Ugh, I hate that noise. I really wish they would cut the sound, or at least tone it down, for the chopper shots.

Well, at least the fans don't each have a vuvuzuela.

I don't believe any of it is real. If they can fake the moon walk why not the 2011 TDF? The whole thing is fake.

Seen several motorcycle incidents before and at least once saw a few riders slam into the bike of a car that stopped instantly or lay the bikes down because of it. Never seen (probably has happened but I've never seen it and I am by far NOT an expert) a car just side swipe them like that and take off.

craziest start to a TDf I've ever followed... sure there are always one or 2 riders who go over a barrier, wipe on on soft tar, launch over a cliff. These 9 days takes the cake...
especially the TV car incident. course I can't remember ever seeing as many motos and cars in the caravan as this year. Way too many. And when a crash happens they block the medics from getting to the scene quickly and everyone else from getting thru.
riders seem to be secondary to the whole scene. can't imagine that it's over yet.

There's a report floating around that race radio specifically told the driver not to pass.

That is not exactly true. The reports are that what he did was in violation of general instructions given not long before he tried to pass. It was not that he was specifically was told to not pass.

This is a little above average for a grand tour, and a little more dramatic, but not much.

Last year Frank Schleck broke his collarbone during Stage 3; Armstrong basically dropped out of GC competition because of a couple of small crashes on Stage 8. Stage 2 was so bad that the riders basically neutralized the stage (http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cycling/le-tour-de-crash-big-names-come-tumbling-down-on-another-day-of-carnage-20100706-zxti.html).

There are lots of crashes during the first week or so of the tour. The riders are antsy, everyone wants to be on the front, the flat stages are at a very fast pace. It's a part of racing.

On a side note, you don't go to jail for getting into an accident unless you've done something else illegal, such as drive while intoxicated or openly intend to harm someone. I really don't understand why everyone wants a driver who genuinely made a mistake to go to jail.

Before I start calling for someones head I want one question answered.

What experience did this guy have. If it turns out that he had very little and was driving because of connections then I do want heads to roll, but not his.

And I'd be quite happy for the final outcome to be that guys controlling cars have to have demonstrated their ability before going on the biggest stage in cycling.

On a side note, you don't go to jail for getting into an accident unless you've done something else illegal, such as drive while intoxicated or openly intend to harm someone. I really don't understand why everyone wants a driver who genuinely made a mistake to go to jail.

You must be kidding. In this country there are criminal offences called "driving without due care and attention" and "dangerous driving" and "causing death by dangerous driving". The onus is on the driver to pay attention and not make mistakes that put someone else at risk. Anything else is simply a charter for stupid careless driving, which is what this was. In my view the driver should be prosecuted just like I would be were I to drive like this on a public road.

Hang 'em. Hang 'em with barbed wire!

I've seen a lot of bicycle crashes but the scene after the Vino crash was especially disturbing and dramatic. Evans said he had no idea what had happened until they rounded the corner and saw injured riders everywhere.

Sad scene.

Tdf turning into bloodsport, someone needs to photoshop Bolo on a bike

It's not unheard of. This year seems to be off to a rowdy start, for sure. But read back over TdF's from the past; crashes, upsets and injuries are not uncommon.
It is the sheer number of chase vehicles in the midst of the peloton that gets me. Add wild eyed Frenchmen driving Tour cars in there and it's a wonder we don't see more damage done.

The more TdF I watch, though, the more I find myself rejecting the grip of fear we have over cycling helmets. I've become more interested in body armor, instead.
I had a horrid dream about barbed wire last night, too.

I loved the newspaper report I read that said the organisers were going to limit the number of cars on the course to 130 now. Hopefully a large percentage of these are either OTF or OTB, but whw knows how many will be close to the riders.

130? WTF? You mean that earlier there were more? Almost one per rider even?

I'm willing to be that 2/3 of these aren't really needed.

Let's do a guesstimate...
20 teams? Let's call that 40 cars - 2 each?
5 for race officials?
5 for doctors and medics?
5 for neutral support?

55 so far.

All cameramen on motorbikes (ie smaller)


So who is in all these other vehicles? Do we have to see someone dead before we realise that the managing director of one of the sponsors doesn't really need to be riding along?

apparently the race director told the driver to pull over but he didn't...
however, it does seem to me that the drivers are usually very good and they know how it is covering a bike race. And the team cars are driven by DS who know what they're doing.

I loved the newspaper report I read that said the organisers were going to limit the number of cars on the course to 130 now. Hopefully a large percentage of these are either OTF or OTB, but whw knows how many will be close to the riders.

130? WTF? You mean that earlier there were more? Almost one per rider even?

I'm willing to be that 2/3 of these aren't really needed.

Let's do a guesstimate...
20 teams? Let's call that 40 cars - 2 each?
5 for race officials?
5 for doctors and medics?
5 for neutral support?

55 so far.

All cameramen on motorbikes (i.e. smaller)


So who is in all these other vehicles? Do we have to see someone dead before we realize that one of the sponsors doesn't really need to be riding along?
My thinking exactly.

apparently the race director told the driver to pull over but he didn't...
however, it does seem to me that the drivers are usually very good and they know how it is covering a bike race. And the team cars are driven by DS who know what they're doing.

I'm sure that most of the drivers are good, but with so many there are bound to be problems. The Race Director working as 'air traffic control' isn't what he should be doing.

Minimise the risks by eliminating unnecessary things.

This is the first time I've ever watched the TdF. It's only the second stage race I've ever watched. The first was the 2011 TdCali. I can't believe how many crashes there are. Is this normal? Broken noses, broken hip, cars knocking leaders out of the race, motorcycles laying in the road, spectators causing massive pile-ups...WTF is going on? That guy flying in to the barbed wire was insane, and he finished the race with blood streaming down his legs! I have a whole new appreciation for the toughness of these guys.

Will the driver of that car face criminal charges?

This is pretty common for the first week of the TDF. In fact, just surviving the TDF and staying healthy enough to finish is a difficult task. However, this year seems a little worse than usual. The race organizers are continually trying to make the racing more exciting so they design stages that are becoming more and more dangerous. Combine this with the push for more dope free riding and you have this situation. Increased risk combined with increased fatigue which I think means lower concentration levels and more serious accidents. Also, because the TV networks are putting pressure on the TDF organizers to make the race more exciting. The cameramen are starting to get more daring and take more risks. We now have two accidents caused by TV cars. Motorcycles are better as they can fit into the race better. Even then, there are usually at least one accident with a motorcycle a year between the three grand tours. I think they are starting to allow too many cars into the race. This is going to be causing serious problems in the future.

the first week is always nasty...everyone is nervous, it's often windy and flat. I remember Lance saying in an interview that he would be scared sh%tless during the first week...that's when the worst crashes often happen. Speaking of Lance, does anyone remember that crash a few years ago, I think it was 1996? there was a big pileup on one of the first road stages and lance was about to duke it out with some guy from Lotto...I think it was the year lance was sick and bailed out. I remember them squaring off but nothing happened.

I say get rid of the team vehicles too in favor of neutral support vehicles carrying bidons, wheels, and basic parts. If a rider takes too many chances and breaks his bike in a crash, he's either out, or if he's a GC contender, he borrows a teammate's.

Either Vroomen or White from Cervelo suggested this same thing. Since riders are having to ADD WEIGHTS to get their bike to the minimum race weight, why not just make the bikes more durable? As an added bonus, s the manufacturers innovate to meet the demand, the 99% of cyclists who buy only one bike will have more reliable options showing up in their local bike shop.

Tdf turning into bloodsport, someone needs to photoshop Bolo on a bike

hg

Just saw a good explanation of how the peleton and cars etc are supposed to work.

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/07/le-tour-diary-stage-10-the-race-convoy/

I caught a blurb on the broadcast tonight that the Tour instructed no cars to be between the breakaway and the peloton unless specific clearance was given at that time and for that time only.

Not sure if that's for the rest of the rest or today's stage which was pretty narrow.

Just saw a good explanation of how the peleton and cars etc are supposed to work.

http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2011/07/le-tour-diary-stage-10-the-race-convoy/
Very nice- a hearty thanks.
Still seems to be a lot of cars with "non-essential" folks tooling about the peloton. But that's just me.
Gendarmes doing breathalizers on race drivers in the TdF? I know it's France, but holy crap!

Very nice- a hearty thanks.
Still seems to be a lot of cars with "non-essential" folks tooling about the peloton. But that's just me.
Gendarmes doing breathalizers on race drivers in the TdF? I know it's France, but holy crap!


That website/blog is really good - worth a trawl back through some of his older stuff. Canadian guy living in Australia. Well connected and respected. He did a limited run of t-shirts with Jens' immortal words "Shut up legs" on them AND I'm pretty sure he actually asked Jens for permission!

Lunch in France is going to include a bottle of wine. It is just how it is.