Mountain Biking - dept.store surprise!

i found a schwinn s-25 bike at target and to my surprise it came with really good equipment for the price
of 199.00 for those people with other budget priorities ( kids, mortgage exct...)

handbuilt 6061 AL dual suspension frame withrear swing arm
mozo m30 fork
mtb riser handlebar
schwinn-quality threadless stem on two bolt faceplate
shimano ef-29 trigger shifters
pro max alloy linear pull brakes
wtb 26x2.1 velociraptor tires
aero-v anodized rims with machined sidewalls
nice ergonomic sportsaddle

the bottom line is to get out there and ride and price should not impede the sport. this is a good bike while scrounging pennies for a ds1 or whatever.

The name Schwinn is a rebadged Pacific now.

Good luck...

i found a schwinn s-25 bike at target and to my surprise it came with really good equipment for the price
of 199.00 for those people with other budget priorities ( kids, mortgage exct...)

handbuilt 6061 AL dual suspension frame withrear swing arm
mozo m30 fork
mtb riser handlebar
schwinn-quality threadless stem on two bolt faceplate
shimano ef-29 trigger shifters
pro max alloy linear pull brakes
wtb 26x2.1 velociraptor tires
aero-v anodized rims with machined sidewalls
nice ergonomic sportsaddle

the bottom line is to get out there and ride and price should not impede the sport. this is a good bike while scrounging pennies for a ds1 or whatever.

I am glad you like your new bike. Your list of features however does mainly read like some meaningless advertising fluff.

The question is, who built the bike? Some 15 year old kid with an adjustable wrench and a hammer? Guarantee the wheels were not trued, the cranks were not torq'd to spec, the stem/steerer interface was not greased, the handlebar/stem interface was not greased, the pedals were not greased (and theres a pretty good chance they were cross threaded from what I have seen), the seat tube was not reamed and the post was not greased, the headset/brakes/derailleurs are probably all in need of adjustment....

In my opinion, there is something much more important to the success of a bike shop than selling a bike: establishing a good customer relationship. Some shops I've worked with do this well; others don't.

I've known bike shops that told people they were stupid for buying a cheap bike or they cut their bike to literal shreds in front of them. I've been in bike shops where a customer brought in a cheap bike for some repair and everyone in the shop could hear the wrench in the back say, 'Whose garbage is that?' as they wheeled it back to the service area. I don't think either of those builds relationships.

If I owned a bike shop I'd consider telling someone who bought a dept store bike, 'Bring it over to my shop. I'll give it a quick look over and make sure everything is set up right. I'll show you the differences between that bike and a more expensive bike. And I'll do it for free because I know if you start riding and you like it, you'll buy your next bike from me.' And I'll bet they would.

When someone gets hooked on the sport we love, they will make the move to better equipment if they want to and as they need to. We can help them. :beer:

(This post became somewhat out of context when the 15 posts in front of it were removed but maybe there's still some value in it. :D )

What happened to all the other posts in this thread?

Ok, I have warned to keep it calm, Maelstrom warned to keep it calm, it went in disregard. Decided to start fresh with this. If the argument gets carried on by ANY of you, there will be a consequence depending on the severity. Now as it was said before, calm down.

What happened to all the other posts in this thread?

Was purged.

Just if anyone is wondering, from the wording of the original post, I don't think he actually bought this bike. I think it was advice to others to buy it if you're on a budget, but I don't see the point when a Trek 820 is $219.99 assembled.

One thing I always tell customers on a tight budget is if they do decide to get a dept. store bike, please bring it to us in a box, untouched, and we will be happy to do a quality assembly job for $40, and do everything we would to one of our bikes.

Just if anyone is wondering, from the wording of the original post, I don't think he actually bought this bike. I think it was advice to others to buy it if you're on a budget, but I don't see the point when a Trek 820 is $219.99 assembled.

One thing I always tell customers on a tight budget is if they do decide to get a dept. store bike, please bring it to us in a box, untouched, and we will be happy to do a quality assembly job for $40, and do everything we would to one of our bikes.

Your point is well made, seely, but sometimes people end up with a dept store bike because they got it as a gift or something. It can still be a great starting point for a custmer <> LBS relationship; even if the Trek 820 would have been a better starting point. :beer:

Oh poop, my thoughtful post was deleted. I'm going to go kill myself.

*Hint* Sarcasm/Joking *Hint*

I got a dept store bike a while back and it had that mozo fork. haha its crap, i think they put lead inside it to keep the price down. Beware of those rims by the way, they are single walled and weak as hell. Keep your tire pressure high!!! And ide advise lubricating the rear pivot of the "suspension". The folks who assemble them have a very had habit of neglecting to lubricate this. if you want to take apart the suspension itself and see what you find. also your going to want to prepare yourself to lubricate all things with bearings at beasts @ that price range do not have the luxury of sealed bearings.

So let me get this straight...all the posts were deleted after Seely's, which was the one I took exception to (for right or wrong) in the first place? I understand your wish to keep the posts "calm" and they should be kept calm. But here's my point: we've obviously hit upon an issue that stirs some significant controversy on these forums. To censor the posts pertaining to this controversy is ignoring an issue I think is central to cycling itself and to these forums' contribution to the sport. Maybe I read more into Seely's post than was intended, but if I did, then any other newbie who shows up here might too. People come here for help when they develop an interest in a sport/hobby they previously knew very little about. That's how I got here. A simple Google search leads you rght to these pages. When a new poster asking a question about what bike to buy or how to further enjoy the Murray/Huffy/$99.95 special he's already got, we collectively turn him off to the whole sport when we textually disassemble his bike and knock every single part of it as crap. That's why I posted what I did, and the fact that you deleted every post AFTER the one I took exception to, yet left that one, is unfair.

I wouldnt say all the parts on dept store bikes are total crap. They are okay for riding here and there once a month or so. but for any real riding, like real riding on a trail and whatnot they just are not suitable. Theres a great group on yahoo called Cheap MTB

I agree completely. I'm new at this too, but knew I didn't want a dcheap dept. store bike. That's why I came to this forum; to get advice from knowledgeable people like yourselves. I ended up with a Trek bike I'm very happy with. And to be honest, I may never use it to its full potential. I am fortunate enough now to make enough money (does anybody ever make ENOUGH money???) to be able to occasionally spend a little more to get a quality product. But I have been in the situation before where the difference in $100 and $200 was tremendous when a house note was looming on the horizon. I did like Seely's suggestion that even a cheap bike would benefit from assembly by a qualified bike shop technician. That's great advice I'd never thought of. Makes good sense. But I think we've got to support the new guy who shows up on here with his Huffy bike and wants some advice. To tell him it's a piece of crap that's not worth riding is wrong.

I agree completely. I'm new at this too, but knew I didn't want a dcheap dept. store bike. That's why I came to this forum; to get advice from knowledgeable people like yourselves. I ended up with a Trek bike I'm very happy with. And to be honest, I may never use it to its full potential. I am fortunate enough now to make enough money (does anybody ever make ENOUGH money???) to be able to occasionally spend a little more to get a quality product. But I have been in the situation before where the difference in $100 and $200 was tremendous when a house note was looming on the horizon. I did like Seely's suggestion that even a cheap bike would benefit from assembly by a qualified bike shop technician. That's great advice I'd never thought of. Makes good sense. But I think we've got to support the new guy who shows up on here with his Huffy bike and wants some advice. To tell him it's a piece of crap that's not worth riding is wrong.

Agreed. Saying 'Your bike is junk' won't build good relationships. I was driving home yesterday and saw a guy on a $100 FS riding down the sidewalk. The bike was bobbing up and down like a pogo stick! What struck me most was he had a grin that stretched from ear to ear. :D He could care less that his bike weighed 50 pounds; he was having a blast riding his bike and enjoying the day. Everybody starts some place and then works up from there, if they want to. We can all do a lot to help people learn more about mtn biking and have a safer, more enjoyable ride at the same time. :beer:

So let me get this straight...all the posts were deleted after Seely's, which was the one I took exception to (for right or wrong) in the first place? I understand your wish to keep the posts "calm" and they should be kept calm. But here's my point: we've obviously hit upon an issue that stirs some significant controversy on these forums. To censor the posts pertaining to this controversy is ignoring an issue I think is central to cycling itself and to these forums' contribution to the sport. Maybe I read more into Seely's post than was intended, but if I did, then any other newbie who shows up here might too. People come here for help when they develop an interest in a sport/hobby they previously knew very little about. That's how I got here. A simple Google search leads you rght to these pages. When a new poster asking a question about what bike to buy or how to further enjoy the Murray/Huffy/$99.95 special he's already got, we collectively turn him off to the whole sport when we textually disassemble his bike and knock every single part of it as crap. That's why I posted what I did, and the fact that you deleted every post AFTER the one I took exception to, yet left that one, is unfair.

His was not a personal attack. The others were removed because they were becoming inflamatory and personal. His is an observation, and a correct one at that. That is why every other post was removed.

The one you have taken exception to says nothing beyond "Department store bikes are built like crap" He probably could have added something like "however there are bikes at lbs's for the same price where you would get good service etc etc"...

The other point is a simple one, when people post here we assume they are riding trails. We don't assume they are buying a mountain bike to cruise around town. On trails, bikes made at department stores and or with department store parts, these bikes will not last and can have a catastrophic failure that could lead to an injury. If you are coming here looking for a bike to cruise around town, be specific that that is your intention, then, it doesn't matter about parts or bikes because you are not putting the stresses of a trail on the bike.

In the end, we asre trying to help people find the best bike for them. And help them enjoy it. Someone riding trails likely will not enjoy his or her monroe fork that weight 12 pounds snapping on the first technical trail they ride. Spend the extra 50$ go to a bike shop, get the bike fitted and ewnjoy the service and quality you can get from the shop :) Oh and don't forget to enjoy the ride, thats all that matters :)

So let me get this straight...all the posts were deleted after Seely's, which was the one I took exception to (for right or wrong) in the first place? I understand your wish to keep the posts "calm" and they should be kept calm. But here's my point: we've obviously hit upon an issue that stirs some significant controversy on these forums. To censor the posts pertaining to this controversy is ignoring an issue I think is central to cycling itself and to these forums' contribution to the sport. Maybe I read more into Seely's post than was intended, but if I did, then any other newbie who shows up here might too. People come here for help when they develop an interest in a sport/hobby they previously knew very little about. That's how I got here. A simple Google search leads you rght to these pages. When a new poster asking a question about what bike to buy or how to further enjoy the Murray/Huffy/$99.95 special he's already got, we collectively turn him off to the whole sport when we textually disassemble his bike and knock every single part of it as crap. That's why I posted what I did, and the fact that you deleted every post AFTER the one I took exception to, yet left that one, is unfair.

Well, guess what Casey, tough crap. Is it fair to alter words to get around the banned words filter? No. Is it fair to flame people after two warnings were posted in the thread? No. This is not bicycling.com where that is accepted. As to the department store bikes thing, if they do a websearch before, they will find out how bad a bike those are.

Everyone knows how easy it is to get hurt on the trail. If your riding a sketchy line an crash you can some what prepare to eat it.We all know how a mech. can catch you off guard and slam you to the ground, it hurts. Thats where the danger with dept. store bikes lies,if you have cheaper parts and bad assembly it could cause problems, no one rides to get hurt. :D :D :D

...its so funny how different people are on the internet than in real life...

You guys put to many words into your posts.

KonaRider your a slipknot fan? Kick friggen A, thats awsome they are a great band.

Yes I am.

I haven't flamed anyone. And I didn't even know there WAS a banned words filter. And as for the "warnings", they were given long after I was home and in bed, so get your story straight if you're going to moderate a forum. And you're right: it's not bicycling.com. It's BIKEforums.net. That's bike, not biketojumpoffmountain.net or biketojumpovercar.org. Just bike. I am not flaming. I am trying very hard to make a valid point about something I felt strongly about. If you can't handle that, if the best response you can come up with when a forum user expresses an opinion is "tough crap" then perhaps you shouldn't be moderating this forum.

Maelstrom, thank you for your explanation. I understand where you're coming from, and have a better understanding of what's expected here now. you I appreciate. Maybe I didn't make my original point in the best possible way, but what I was looking for was something like what you suggested. If there had been advice about where to get a quality bike for a competitive price, then the entire post would have had some merit and would have been worth something. I just don't want to see us running off new people, and I feel like the way this has been handled will do just that.

Episodes like this have happened before, it hasn't chased off anyone, this could have been handled better,(With my part as well). Let['s just put this in the past and move on.

I haven't flamed anyone. And I didn't even know there WAS a banned words filter. And as for the "warnings", they were given long after I was home and in bed, so get your story straight if you're going to moderate a forum. And you're right: it's not bicycling.com. It's BIKEforums.net. That's bike, not biketojumpoffmountain.net or biketojumpovercar.org. Just bike. I am not flaming. I am trying very hard to make a valid point about something I felt strongly about. If you can't handle that, if the best response you can come up with when a forum user expresses an opinion is "tough crap" then perhaps you shouldn't be moderating this forum.


Must resist urge to say anything...

Don't fight the urge, its like a crack adict that wants to quit, he wants to fight the urge but know having it and getting high will make him feel better. Is your avatar a pic of you out of curriosity cause if it is you got somewhat of a snotty look on your face in my opinion.

Don't fight the urge, its like a crack adict that wants to quit, he wants to fight the urge but know having it and getting high will make him feel better. Is your avatar a pic of you out of curriosity cause if it is you got somewhat of a snotty look on your face in my opinion.

No I'm stepping away from this one. Yeah thats me, and thats my usual look. I think of it as indifference, not snottiness.

Like I said it twas' my own opinion, and again in my opinion you look like your 15-16 years old, and if memorey serves correctly, I think you said your a "professional" bike mechanic, how could you be a "professional" bike mechanic at 15-16 years old. Not trying to star anything just a boredom observation.

dept. store surpise = "Surprise! The fork just snapped off at the steerer and you broke 6 vertebrae."

This is a mountain biking forum. The stickers on Dept. store bikes clearly say "Not intended for off road use"

Nuf said.

Like I said it twas' my own opinion, and again in my opinion you look like your 15-16 years old, and if memorey serves correctly, I think you said your a "professional" bike mechanic, how could Profesional means employed in the field.
you be a "professional" bike mechanic at 15-16 years old. Not trying to star anything just a boredom observation.

Seely seems to know more than about bikes than I do, so I listen.
Lots of folks younger know more about mech than me...
Professional simply means employed in the field. You could be a hack and be 'profressional'.

Like I said it twas' my own opinion, and again in my opinion you look like your 15-16 years old, and if memorey serves correctly, I think you said your a "professional" bike mechanic, how could you be a "professional" bike mechanic at 15-16 years old. Not trying to star anything just a boredom observation.

I'm 22 and I've been wrenching on bikes for about the past 6 years, and working at shops for 3

Seely seems to know more than about bikes than I do, so I listen.
Lots of folks younger know more about mech than me...
Professional simply means employed in the field. You could be a hack and be 'profressional'.


Thanks I appreciate the kind words. And you're right, professional only means you are employed in a given field really... professional in the bike industry gets tossed around too much quite frankly. There is no real standard of competence like you have with auto mechanic (ASE) or networking/computers, so professional is pretty much meaningless unfortunately.

Like I said it twas' my own opinion, and again in my opinion you look like your 15-16 years old, and if memorey serves correctly, I think you said your a "professional" bike mechanic, how could you be a "professional" bike mechanic at 15-16 years old. Not trying to star anything just a boredom observation.

I know a number of mechs that young. It is totally possible, especially with a good shop and if you have talent. Having been interacting with seely for a while, he know his stuff. In fact I didn't realize how old he was, I think he was closer to my age as he presents himself in a knowledgeble mature way.

I'm 22 and I've been wrenching on bikes for about the past 6 years, and working at shops for 3

I would never have known. haha. 22 wow

Alright like I said it was my opinion, and I stand corrected. So if I was to go out and get a job at a bike shop pretty much I'd be a "professional" bike mechanic, as long as I actually worked on bikes, thats nifty, and I hope you didnt get the wrong idea about my posts I wasnt trying to start any kinda fight or such things.

I think there is a certain time you get 'pro'...working in a shop isn't an auto pro card. You are just a mech. I don't trust regular mechs with my bike, if it isn't a pro (someone who can handle almost anything and is good at improving) they don't touch my bike. (then again I do 90% of the repairs)

But as seely said in the bicycle world the word pro has no meaning so (your probably dont know what he means) you might be able to say there is no pro bike mechanic just a very expierenced mechanic?

sure...but I call them pros...its a simple term that holds no meaning except it does give them respect and it does distinguish them from basic mechs. I have never cared much for what the actual bicycle world says, if I did, I would still be reading MBA and the other bathroom magazines that claim to know stuff about bike parts...

To...add another post ;) (just for foxrider) as a mech you wouldn't walk around calling yourself a professional...in my eyes and in this area anyways, you get a rep...you are a pro. There are no hacks pros here, as seely mentioned, because no one, who doesn't know his stuff, would walk around claiming to be the best or a pro. The professional riders and mechs would laugh him out of town haha

Thats what I call them too but if you just work there then I wouldnt call you a pro unless I knew you had lots of expierence, but in my eyes a person isnt a pro if they've been working at a shop for like 3 years (not trying to pick on you seely) but if they've been working there for like 8 or 9 and up then I would probably say they were pro, but like you said its just a word that really has no meaning to it so, I guess your right and I'm wrong with some things that I posted, I admit.

:)...you can still have you opinion. I was just relating mine...I would be wrong elsewhere I am sure, I just live in a pretty odd town...I am weird, remember, I am canadian :D

Mudyvane...excellent. Just noticed the custom title...

The question is, who built the bike? Some 15 year old kid with an adjustable wrench and a hammer? Guarantee the wheels were not trued, the cranks were not torq'd to spec, the stem/steerer interface was not greased, the handlebar/stem interface was not greased, the pedals were not greased (and theres a pretty good chance they were cross threaded from what I have seen), the seat tube was not reamed and the post was not greased, the headset/brakes/derailleurs are probably all in need of adjustment....


Wow...Canadian tire sells decent dpartment store bikes then. The stuff is greased, adjusted and just everything was tightened well. Then again on most of the others, the stuff is horrible. The only thtas not adjusted well are teh brakes. They are either no modulation or very spongy.

My bud who owns a LBS in my area is the only one i will let work on my bike. He's a great mech.He even goes out of his way to teach my son, he let him hang out in the shop one saterday and build his own rear wheel. That kind of thing goes a long way.

Yea it does I wish I could have done some thing like that, but for the past 5 years about I've had to tinker on my bike and learn the diff stuff about it.

Yes Mudvayne is excellent same with Slipknot, MushroomHead, Three Days Grace, System Of A Down, I think you get the hint, and I know I have an opinion just sometims seems wrong.

Nice...you just name 4 of my favorite bands...(never heard of mushroom head)

They are a metal band somwhat like mudvayne, and slipknot. How bout staind, linkin park, disturbed, papa roach, korn, and flaw.

haha... this one got WAY off topic... but yeah, I myself didn't realize seely was as young as he was, though I guessed he was younger than me from his avatar. I'm 25 myself and while I'm reasonably knowledgeable about bikes, I generally defer to one of the veterans around here if I'm not sure about something. My post that was deleted was actually defending seely's and re-interpreting it for those that happened to miss the original point. I guess it got lost in the shuffle. As far as Maelstrom's considered, I agree with his theory that your average joe that works on bikes in a shop is merely a mech or a wrench. Someone who's exceedingly good at it and has been doing it awhile and has earned the respect of his peers... that's someone I'd refer to as a pro. My LBS that I frequent has some younger mechs... under 27, I would guess.. and they're actually really good. Not to the point that I'd call them "pros" but they do excellent work. I'm curious to see how they deal with my friend's trashed rear wheel (pwrdbytrd, if you guys haven't been following along). It was quite a mess for sure.

Here is a story that the local Fox news station ran last night. I too would never purchase a bike from a dept store. Here is just one reason why...


Posted:11/17/2004 4:37:17 PM
Modified:11/17/2004 4:37:17 PM

Is Your Brand New Bike Ready to Ride?

Overland Park, KS -- Mark and Kim Stukel have five kids. So when it comes to buying bikes they go to discount or department stores to get a better price. But the Fox 4 Problem Solvers want to know if the bikes you buy are assembled properly and are safe for your child to ride.
The Stukels bought new bikes from K-Mart, Target, Toys R Us and Walmart.
The Fox 4 Problem Solvers then brought the bikes to Eric Carter a bike mechanic at the Trek Bicycle Store, Carter inspected each bike to make sure it was safe and ready to ride. Carter found at least five problems with each bike he inspected. Carter says "the bikes were a lot better than the bikes we do see come from department sores in the past but they obviously didn't take a lot of time to check the details".
Details like brake pads dragging, rubbing or loose. Seats not secure and flat tires. The bike Carter said is in the best condition is from Target a boys Schwinn. The bike in the worst condition is a girls Schwinn from Walmart. The handlebars are loose and could be a safety risk if ridden.
Safety experts tell the Fox 4 Problem Solvers that most reputable bike stores will inspect any bike, regardless of where you bought the bike.
We contacted all four stores to tell them what we found. Two responded back. In a statement Walmart says "safety is a top priority and they train associates to assemble and test bikes before putting them on the floor... if it fails to meet standards they will investigate the incident."
Kmart's statement tells us "we contract all bike assembly through a third party... they can't comment on the problems, they regret the incident and say anyone with concerns can return the product will a receipt in 90 days for a full refund."
The other two stores, Target and Toys R Us did not respond.

Carrie Coogan, Fox 4 Problem Solvers
FOX 4 News (http://www.wdaftv4.com/)