Tandem Cycling - Paramount Tandem Help

I just became the new owner of a Schwinn Paramount Tandem. I have not had any luck finding its serial number. I've looked in all the standard locations (headbadge area, left rear stay, bottom brackets). Can anyone could help me identify its year so that I could get more information about replacement parts etc.

Here is what I do know:
It is a 5-speed with a single, downtube shifter.
It has a Campagnolo Record rear deralleur. No front der.
It has Normandy hubs (perhaps replaced?)
It has Advocet saddles (perhaps replaced?)
It has Schwinn (script?) crankarms.
It has a frame geometry that doesn't seem to match the Paramount Tandems that I've seen.

I'd be happy to e-mail more pix if that might help...

Pic attached this time (I hope).

Your photo didn't make it...

Just off the cuff... when you say left rear chainstay I suspect you mean the drop-out? If not, be sure to check both the left and right drop-outs, above and below the rear axle nut. As for the headbadge, did you check the base of the headtube AND the headbadge itself?

I suspect you've discovered these goldmines of information:

General Info on Schwinn bicycles:
http://www.oldschwinn.com/how_old_is_my_schwinn/index.html

Paramount history:
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2004/data/culture/paramount/index.php

If all of these sources have not helped what you might want to do is send your photo & bike description as an attachment to the folks at Waterford:
http://www.waterfordbikes.com/2004/data/index.php

If you can re-post your photos that might help.

Yes, I meant drop-outs. I guess I haven't removed the rear wheel to look under the nut/washers... Yup, I've checked the headbadge and base of head-tube.

Thanks for the links. I had found them myself and posted/e-mailed them all. Still no luck.

Still no photo? I can see it in the second reply...?

Thanks,
Scott

I can see it now. Time lag, don't you know. Now having seen the photo two possibilities come to mind which would explain why there might not be a serial number. But first... couple questions:

1. Do my eyes deceive me or does that bike have rear-facing drop-outs?
2. Does the bike have what appears to be it's original paint?

Theory 1: If those are rear-facing drop-outs and the bike has been repainted it could have originally been built as a track tandem and then modified for road use with the addition of the brake bosses, a downtube shifter (most road paramounts that I've seen had the shifters on the stem), etc. I don't believe the track tandems had serial numbers.

Theory 2: A custom bike designed for a buyer who wanted the best of both worlds; a road tandem that could be converted for use on the track (this is a wild-ass guess). Custom tandems, like the track models, also seemed to lack serial numbers.

Again, I've got to think that the folks at Waterford would be your best best on IDing the bike from a photo. Another person to check with would be Larry at Mt Airy Bicycles in Maryland (abikie@aol.com). He is one of the foremost authorities on old bikes and tandems.

The best I can do from the photos is make guesses that assume what I'm seeing is original, e.g., the cross-over crankset (vs. right side drive) was not offered on the Paramount tandems until 1977 and was discontinued along with the Paramount tandems in 1979. The cranks on the later models were Campy Strada's. The front derailleurs on the 15 speeds were Campy Record, but Huret or other types of derailleurs were used on the rear. Again, none of the Paramounts sold from 69 - 79 had downtube shifters. Very unusual, indeed. However, despite the dubius pedigree, it appears to be a very nice looking bike from the photo (albeit a bit fuzzy). Good luck in your hunt.

Yes... they are rear-facing drop outs. Sorry for my ignorance, but why do rear-facing drop-outs imply a track bike?

Although the paint is in very nice condition, I don't think it has ever been repainted. It still has a Schwinn Dealer Decal on it from the shop it was purchased from (Aurora Schwinn, in Aurora CO, no longer in business). If I were to have a bike repainted, I doubt that I'd save/reapply the dealer sticker. But thats just me :^)

Thanks for the info. I'll try again with Waterford and check with Larry too.

Yes... they are rear-facing drop outs. Sorry for my ignorance, but why do rear-facing drop-outs imply a track bike?

Unlike multi-speed bikes which have a rear drailleur to take up the slack in the chain, rear facing drop-outs are used primarily on track bikes to permit the rear wheel to move forward and backward to take the slack out of the chain.

don't worry about it...beautiful bike...add one wonderful other person..and ride!!!!

I'm lucky... I've got 3 beautiful people that ride with me!

Did you just add the head tube badge photo? If that's the original head tube badge then your tandem is a bit older than I original suspected. The Arnold Schwinn Company became the Schwinn Bicycle Co. in 1967. For reference, here's a Web page with photos of a '56 Schwinn Track Tandem and you'll notice the similarity between it's screwed-on head tube badge with the raised round center and the one on your tandem.

http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/04bicycles/schwparaOTT.html

Hmmm. You have an interesting machine there. The more I learn about the more I like it.

Yes... I just added the other photos. As far as I know, the headbadge is original.

I guess I was leaning towards it being newer rather than older given the good condition of the bike. Also, the decal set on the bike seems to match a version of decals being used by Schwinn in the mid-seventies.

According to the Paramount section of the Waterford web-site, there was a period in the 80's where they built "Anything Goes" custom bicycles. I'm thinking that's where it came from.

Scott

I received the following response regarding this bike from Waterford...Scott



This frame was clearly repainted after the mid-70's but was probably built before 1960. The keyhole-style lugs and rear stay treatment come from the 50's or earlier. I've never seen that headbadge before. It's the kind of headbadge that would have been used before 1960, as well - if anything, on non-Paramount Schwinn tandem. The "AS" disappeared after 1960. The fact that the frame has a derailleur tab indicates a 50's date.

The design of the tandem is pretty strange, too, with a two top tubes in the front triangle, a crossbar in the stoker's harp and extra stays in the rear.

The origin of this tandem is uncertain. Schwinn might have made it, but I'm surprised they didn't install a Paramount headbadge, owing to the lug design, then only used on Paramounts. Since it was repainted, it is also possible that it once had a Paramount headbadge, for some reason replaced by this unusual badge. This would also be unusual. The lack of a serial number means that it was not part of the regular production. Paramounts had serial numbers on the BB at the time, but Paramounts were also treated haphazardly during this period, as well.

Here are some possibilities:

1. This frame may have been built as a prototype by Schwinn or Oscar Wastyn in the 50's. I do not recall Schwinn making a Paramount tandem for public consumption during this period - certainly not a road tandem..
2. This frame could have been built by Wastyn apart from Schwinn and subsequently restyled as a Paramount in the 70's.
3. A third party built this frame and somebody later restyled it.

Yes... I just added the other photos. As far as I know, the headbadge is original.

I guess I was leaning towards it being newer rather than older given the good condition of the bike. Also, the decal set on the bike seems to match a version of decals being used by Schwinn in the mid-seventies.

According to the Paramount section of the Waterford web-site, there was a period in the 80's where they built "Anything Goes" custom bicycles. I'm thinking that's where it came from.

Scott

Well, I think you'll need to engage some real experts on Schwinn products and provide them with some more detailed photos of the drop-outs, fork crown, and other features to nail down the pedigree. I'm pretty much a novice with an eye towards lightweight tandems, but my gut tells me that -- assuming the head badge is original -- the tandem may be pretty old, made in Chicago vs. Waterford, and possibly modified and/or repainted. The rear drop-outs are pretty rare and were used on track bikes as well as some touring bikes because the rear facing drop-outs with the derailleur hanger allowed the bike to be fitted with either a SA 3 speed hub or a rear derailleur. As for the serial number, if the bike was repainted there's a pretty good chance that it may be on the left rear drop-out but covered over with paint. The stampings weren't all that deep.

Hmmm... Found this pic of a '55 Schwinn Town & Country. It has the same headbadge.

I received the following response regarding this bike from Waterford...Scott

Sorry my notes are hopscotching some other posts; I compose when I need a mental diversion and often times start a reply that takes a couple hours to conclude and send.

Regardless, the information provided by Waterford's slueth is fascinating. The more detailed photos must be quite interesting as I wasn't able to discern the bike was lugged beyond the seat stay, never mind them being key-hole lugs. If you decide to get the bike repainted you may find that serial number on the BB or rear drop-out filled-in with paint. Then again, maybe not. As the Waterford reply notes, it could well be a tandem that was cobbled together from bits and pieces of frame materials as a personal bike by someone in the factory who had access to those very distinctive rear drop-outs and the key-hole lugs. Then again, it could be a franken-bike that has been altered from it's original form by subsequent owners.

Again, an interesting find to say the least.

A great find that Paramount! Have never seen any like it although it does look like it could have originated as track bike or a custom.
We approached Paramount/Schwinn in the mid-70s to build us a custom tandem; they flat out refused to build one with cross over drive and we wanted a bent rear seattube, although not quite as drastic a bend as then favored by Paramount.
Ended up having Matt Assenmacher, in Michigan, to build us exactly what we wanted. Our gain, Schwinn's loss!
Hang on to that Schwinn . . . it's a one-of-a-kind collector's tandem, in our opinion!

I just recevied an e-mail from someone with direct knowledge of this bike... thought you might be interested. Thanks for your help.

Scott

...here is what he says:


I know this bike well. There is no serial number. It is a one of a kind as far as I know. It was raced by Jack Simes and Jack Heid [III?] in 1951 to a 3 mile tandem race championship. 6 minutes 1 and 2/5ths sec. The race was in Johnson Park, New Brunswick, NJ. It has been changed quite a bit .. Thought you'd love this attachment I have another one similar to this one but was used in Helsinki in 52 by Disney and Heid.

wow:

The internet can be too cool. Mystery solved. Now, who would want to ride that close together???

I wouldn't. Not even for a record.

Thanks for sharing.

I just recevied an e-mail from someone with direct knowledge of this bike... thought you might be interested. Thanks for your help.

I think your tandem just experienced a significant appreciation in value!! The photo of the original bike is a goldmine as a starting point for collecting documentation that chronicles the history of the bike and/or as an ideal reference for a potential restoration project. Thankfully, the modifications made to the original single-speed fixed-gear tandem (brakes bosses, cable guides, and rear drop-out mod) are not irreversible so if one was so inclined they could possibly return it to its original configuration. Did the individual with the history behind this diamond-in-the-rough tell you what the original colors were?

Again, congrats on your incredible find. That is just too cool! If you ever decide to sell it....

Did the individual with the history behind this diamond-in-the-rough tell you what the original colors were?



Original color was "team white" per Jeff Groman of Classic Cycle.

Scott