Northern California - Ninja drafters

With summer in full swing and more riders on the road I see this behavior more frequent then in the winter. People jump on someones wheel un-announced, don't say a word and just stay there. Then actively try to stay there if for example I am practicing sprints or just short accelerations. Extra points if they think it's some kind of a race, or they are participating in a paceline. :lol:

I just do not understand such behavior. Is it so hard to pull on a side say "Hi", and ask if it will be ok to draft? It is not a race, it's open public roads, and at this point I view it as tailgating, and rude behavior.

It is impressive how some folks refuse to communicate. Ahmose and I were riding on 1 through Jenner the other weekend and we had a paceline hero join us, zero communication, he'd sit on our wheels then open his brake calipers (yes, really) and power up every roller, trying to tuck in ahead of one of us and then slow down. Even when I asked him if he was going to take a pull or just sit back I got no response. Never been so glad to turn up Coleman Valley Road.

If I want to hang with a couple of riders I always say Hi and ask if they mind, amazing how people appreciate courtesy.

One of my biggest pet peeves. If I get passed and want to up the pace I'll always give a "mind if I sit in?". I just don't get it and worse than that I really hate being part of someone else's personal TdF stage.

20 years ago I used to be the dumbass that drafted random strangers on the ARBT. No more. I never had any problems, but instincts told me that it's not a good idea to keep doing that. Now I ride 100% my own effort. On the rare occasions that someone is going the same speed as me, I drop back enough so that I'm not drafting, or I speed up so I'm ahead of them.

20 years ago I used to be the dumbass that drafted random strangers on the ARBT. No more. I never had any problems, but instincts told me that it's not a good idea to keep doing that. Now I ride 100% my own effort. On the rare occasions that someone is going the same speed as me, I drop back enough so that I'm not drafting, or I speed up so I'm ahead of them.

There's not anything wrong with drafting others so long as you let them know you're there and they are cool with it.

There's not anything wrong with drafting others so long as you let them know you're there and they are cool with it.
You're right, but I need to push myself harder so I ride 100% under my own power with no drafting benefit. If I had a riding partner we would trade pulls.

Twenty years ago, there was a good chance that the guy you were drafting was an experienced bike racer who could be trusted with your health. Now, not so much.

There's not anything wrong with drafting others so long as you let them know you're there and they are cool with it.

And both you and the person you are drafting have the skills to draft safely with the current road conditions.
Are you sure you know what that stranger is going to do at a stop sign or red light?

I picked up an entire group of drafters (10-12 of them) once on Foothill. I didn't mind then (nor in general), and it was actually pretty encouraging. I kept my speed up for a long stretch because of it. Great fun.

That said, I know it does bother people, so I avoid doing so myself. Of course, these days, keeping up with anyone for more than a block or so is a futile effort. :lol:

I don't usually run into cyclists on my daily rides out here near Oakdale,CA. I wouldn't mind a ninja drafter, that way I don't feel like such a loner.

I really dislike those random drafters. If only they'd just say hi and ask!

And both you and the person you are drafting have the skills to draft safely with the current road conditions.
Are you sure you know what that stranger is going to do at a stop sign or red light?

I'll admit on the few occasions I've done it, I do try to pay attention to what cues I can, do the guys ride in a straight line, keep a good tempo, dare I say, do they race? (team kits for instance). Your point is a good one.

I had a situation a few years ago where I was fully loaded heading home after a week camping trip. Riding into the wind, a rider was drafting me. It was hard enouh into the wind,but to have him draft off me( and not ask), I gave him the option of backing way off or my stopping short. He couldn't understand why he couldn't draft off me. He found out what happens when a fully loaded bike stops short.

Went for a spin today before the race tomorrow. I usually do short intervals on the same places, hills, to open up the legs. Going up one hill catch up to tree riders. Lead one ups the pace to keep up. Near the top I do my usual acceleration and think that is the end of that. Nope. After a downhill he passes me, now his companions are long gone, in the drops huffing and puffing. On a next hill he is a head, but it is a short hill. Perfect for a sprint. Near the top I catch up, he accelerates and keeps looking at me. It took me a second realize he was racing me. Hill flattened out I seat up, he continues to to spring, and then lunges for the traffic line. You just can't make this **** up. The dude dropped his riding buddies, just so he can have a one man race against a complete stranger.

On a bright side, on foothill had a kool chat with someone who is in to double centuries.

I had a situation a few years ago where I was fully loaded heading home after a week camping trip. Riding into the wind, a rider was drafting me. It was hard enouh into the wind,but to have him draft off me( and not ask), I gave him the option of backing way off or my stopping short. He couldn't understand why he couldn't draft off me. He found out what happens when a fully loaded bike stops short.

So you brake-checked him? Classy.

i was like 100 ft off one guy for about 5 miles. That's ok right? i never talked to him tho...

I had a guy jump on and I didn't know for a bit. I kept thinking what if I slowed or braked. I'd have had this clown ride up my wazoo. Just say something, OK? Not that I'm fast enough it happens very often....

A tandem can dispatch ninja drafters very handily, esp. if behave when the wheelsucker first gloms on as though we're taxed.

As a woman I rarely have people grab my wheel outside of a race. And when they do I talk to them; even drop back even w/them to talk.

If they don't talk to me when drafting the tandem we just drop them. We don't tolerate rudeness and poor cycling skills.

Don't misunderstand, we're happy to pull folks, and many will take a turn at the front. No ninjas, please.

Dispose of the ninjas by dropping a few throwing stars in front of them. Think of their tires popping as the sound of poetic justice.




And yes, this is a joke. It may not be a good joke, but its inetent is to amuse. Please do not try this at home.

Foothill is especially bad for this. I try to avoid riding on it.

When I get some fred drafting me who then sprints to "beat" me and pulls off I have been tempted to go "whoohoo! you're the winner!". But riding in race team kit means being nice, or at least not going out of my way to be sarcastic, so I haven't done it.

Usually the freds disappear off my wheel on the next hill. If I am on an easy ride, I will slow down and let them go around me. But then I will have to pass them again later. I sometimes try talking to them- often they are just ignorant, not jerks. A few times when I have been in a bad mood I have asked them to go away.

I'm really good at missing big potholes by millimeters.
Anybody who needs to draft me is by definition not a good enough rider to be riding so close.

If they don't want to talk... I usually treat it as a bit of fun... up the pace to a pretty good clip (ok TT pace)... but stay seated, so it takes them by surprise.

After a few seconds of this, I look back. If they are still there I think... cool more training for me, and keep pressing.

If they don't want to talk... I usually treat it as a bit of fun... up the pace to a pretty good clip (ok TT pace)... but stay seated, so it takes them by surprise.

After a few seconds of this, I look back. If they are still there I think... cool more training for me, and keep pressing.

That's where my helmet mirror comes in real handy, I can see these guys coming up from behind and before their on my wheel, I pick up the pace, if he's still gaining, up the pace some more. It's actually kind of a fun game and like uspspro says, good training.

Foothill is especially bad for this. I try to avoid riding on it.

When I get some fred drafting me who then sprints to "beat" me and pulls off I have been tempted to go "whoohoo! you're the winner!". But riding in race team kit means being nice, or at least not going out of my way to be sarcastic, so I haven't done it.

Usually the freds disappear off my wheel on the next hill. If I am on an easy ride, I will slow down and let them go around me. But then I will have to pass them again later. I sometimes try talking to them- often they are just ignorant, not jerks. A few times when I have been in a bad mood I have asked them to go away.

Funny, that is exactly where I experience most of this behavior. That even includes the sprint part. :lol:

I tried talking to a few, but came of sounding like a complete *******. So i stopped. i don't know, I don't really want to alter my training ride because some one else has no manners.

i was like 100 ft off one guy for about 5 miles. That's ok right? i never talked to him tho...

Nope, you are out of the spandex club. I am sorry. :lol:

I guess I am a bit more blatant. If they have sucked my heel for several miles with no communication, I signal them to pass. Then, if they do pass, I will sit on their wheel for a while. If they still don't pass, I look back and tell then to get off my )(&(**(&*wheel and take a pull. That generally solves the problem.

I hate when I'm cruising along the bike trail, particularly when I'm riding home from work and I catch a guy who is riding slower than I by maybe a half mph or so, they see me, slow down so I pass and then jump on my wheel immediately. Ugh.

Argh, didn't know this annoys people...Noob rider here, I usually do that to people who passes me on my way to work, mainly to see if I can keep up (I get lazy and coast once I get ~20mph), sometimes its because of the nice view...I don't usually follow very close (~10 meters away), but there are times where I'm right there behind whoever for a couple miles...

Drafting is a new concept to me hehe...So what should I say...Something like "Mind if I hang behind you for a while?"?

I haven't had a drafter in years... but one time when I lived in Cupertino (05-06), I was flying down Homestead and I had a dude on a Bianchi Milano draft me clear from near Lawrence to Stelling. I kept speeding up to shake him and he was stuck right there. He was nice enough to thank me when I stopped at Stelling and he kept going, though. :)

Nowadays on Central or Foothill, I just get passed. :)

I always ask if it's OK for me to sit on if I get passed and want to draft but I've never understood why folks get so annoyed with drafters. Chances are the drafter's the one who goes down if they overlap a wheel.

Anywho, this subject comes up regularly, so I should kick myself for even responding.

- SteveE

I don't draft strangers, but I think I've irritated more than a few people by shadowing them (I dunno how far back ... 100'+?) for mile after mile on the ARBT. :-)

I do out and backs from Beales Pt to Discovery Park, and usually at about CSUS on the return (~45mi in) I start slowing down. If I can find someone to chase, I can keep my pace up. I've had people looking back as they go into each corner and sprinting on the way out (and this has gone on as far as the fish hatchery). I'm guessing they wouldn't have been doing that if I weren't there. In every case I would have liked to thank them; I'd have never put the effort in if I was riding on my own.

I always ask if it's OK for me to sit on if I get passed and want to draft but I've never understood why folks get so annoyed with drafters. Chances are the drafter's the one who goes down if they overlap a wheel.

Anywho, this subject comes up regularly, so I should kick myself for even responding.

- SteveE

It's the not asking part, and other shenanigans mentioned in this thread. They can still do damage if they hit RD just right.

I like to chase people down and draft them for fun. If they speed up and try to drop me, cool, I get more of a benefit the faster they go.

The only ninja drafter I've ever had was ironically riding a Kawasaki sport motorcycle. I shouted back for him to knock it off, but the shriek of his redlining engine must have made it difficult for him to hear me, so I just rode him off my wheel. (Freakin' squidly freds.)

Speaking of drafting on Foothill, does anybody remember Derney Jenn with her yellow scooter and "Cyclists are welcome to draft" sticker?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6009/5955889586_b5222ee025.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bike/5955889586/)
Cropped: Cyclists are welcome to draft (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bike/5955889586/) by richardmasoner (http://www.flickr.com/people/bike/), on Flickr

Drafting just seems like such a fact of bicycling that I never considered it an etiquette issue... sorry. If someone passes me going just a bit faster, I will typically assess their ability and speed up to get the benefit if they look ok (not weaving or clenching their handlebars). If you're annoyed by someone drafting you, remember that they are assuming something like 99% of the risk (a number I totally made up) since the rider behind goes down. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me to draft or have drafters.

Drafting just seems like such a fact of bicycling that I never considered it an etiquette issue... sorry. If someone passes me going just a bit faster, I will typically assess their ability and speed up to get the benefit if they look ok (not weaving or clenching their handlebars). If you're annoyed by someone drafting you, remember that they are assuming something like 99% of the risk (a number I totally made up) since the rider behind goes down. It just doesn't seem like a big deal to me to draft or have drafters.

Drafting is a big part of racing and group rides. Doing it to random strangers is called tailgating.

Drafting is a big part of racing and group rides. Doing it to random strangers is called tailgating.

I have ninja drafted you several mornings, back when it was colder, on foothill. But I'm good at it, so you may not have noticed.

Nobody wants to follow me. Not sure if it's the slow pace or the bad smell.

I have ninja drafted you several mornings, back when it was colder, on foothill. But I'm good at it, so you may not have noticed.

I just ignored you, like I do on this board most of the time. :thumb:

Ninja drafters are lame.You wouldn't walk down the street 2 inches behind someone. I had a guy draft(though I was only going about 15 mph-and he actually slowed his pace to draft) me on the lowest part of North Gate rd. all the way to the start of the climb, and then of course blew past me.What a tool.If I don't invite you to sit on, or nod my approval, don't draft on me.

I actually enjoy when a ninja tries to latch on. 350 watts for a few minutes usually does the trick. :D

I'm not sure what you guys consider drafting. There are many times on my commute when as far as I can see in front of me are other bikers (most of which I will soon be passing) and behind me is a large pack of bikers as well. I think it depends on how much bike traffic you're used to.

I actually enjoy when a ninja tries to latch on. 350 watts for a few minutes usually does the trick. :D

You are my favorite type to draft! :P

Seriously though, I usually draft people for a few seconds waiting for a gap in traffic to get around on foothill. If they're going sufficiently fast, I'll sit in for a while and usually try to trade pulls at a stoplight or wherever.

Most of the time they won't know I'm there because I'm not breathing down their neck, not overlapping wheels, or sitting so close that they could brake-check me if they're unaware.

I also don't mind at all if people draft me when I'm in a hurry. If they can hang on, good for them. I wish there were enough commuters out that we could all do 22 instead of 20 and get home sooner.

A roller blader drafted off of me on Foothill a few years ago. I didn't mind. I told him at a stop I was impressed how he kept up. Then we debated whether Solarbabies was the best science fiction film of the 80s.

What is the big problem w/ someone random drafting off of you anyway? If it's just a training ride, they are just cheating themselves from a honest workout. Shouldn't it be a complement? Somebody actually thinks your wheel is stable and fast enough to benefit from a draft. no? What am i not understanding?

I have ninja drafted you several mornings, back when it was colder, on foothill. But I'm good at it, so you may not have noticed.I just ignored you, like I do on this board most of the time. :thumb:

Awesome, I love you two.


As for drafters... having someone draft you actually saves you energy so technically you're not making any extra effort to let someone draft. As for announcing themselves, I can always tell when someone's latched on to my wheel so I just ride accordingly. There's enough cyclist-car crap to worry about that we don't need cyclist-cyclist animosity.

What is the big problem w/ someone random drafting off of you anyway? If it's just a training ride, they are just cheating themselves from a honest workout. Shouldn't it be a complement? Somebody actually thinks your wheel is stable and fast enough to benefit from a draft. no? What am i not understanding?

Safety issue. I don't ride in large packs of strangers because I don't ride in close proximity with people unless I'm comfortable with their habits. Many riders blow red lights, if I slow or stop for a redlight or stopsign, someone following closely who assumes I'm rolling through it will probably collide with me.

Also a sanitary issue. I routinely fire the aft snot-torpedoes, not to be a jerk, but because I don't like mucous on my jersey, shorts, frame and rims (also a safety issue.)