Professional Cycling For the Fans - Schleck brothers lament a lack of aggression from GC contenders

Looks like the Schleck brothers are starting to whine again.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/schleck-brothers-lament-a-lack-of-aggression-from-gc-contenders

Funny how they are critical of others non aggression but couldn't work together to blow the race apart themselves. These guys don't deserve to win this race. Apparently Cadel just rode a fast pace and never attacked but the pace was such that the brothers couldn't or wouldn't commit to take it a step further. So they lament the non aggressiveness of others. Whenever Andy attacked no one would really go with him. Poor baby, why didn't he go it alone. I guess no one wanted to help team Schleck to win the race. Basso tried a few attacks but would not commit. Because none of them want to help the Schlecks. They want to ITT it out with them rather than give them a mountain stage and extra time.

I don't know why I can't stand the Schlecks. They are nice guys but gutless wimpy whiners.

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you know, I've been wondering the same thing about my own feelings towards the Schlecks. They do seem like nice guys, but for some reason I can't stand them either. I can't figure out what it is about them that rubs me the wrong way. I really like a lot of riders on their team, but not them. When Contador lost so much time in Stage 1, I resigned myself to Schlecks on the podium. Now, I'm really really hoping Tommy V, Cadel, and Basso take the podium spots. I love the way Tommy V rides and would love for him to win it all.

Andy attacked last year then forgot how to shift gears and dropped his chain. Then he whines about Contador taking advantage of his stupidity. Grow up son.

The point at which I lost interest in the Schlecks came as a result of the way they left Saxo Bank, if they had just left I wouldn't have developed a problem with them in general. But by taking the other riders with them (including Cancellara begging out of the last year of his contract), I felt they resembled the little rich kid who doesn't get his way so he takes his ball and goes home.

The other factor that is unapealing is Andy Schleck's attitude that he DESERVES to win the TDF because he is so good.

A real champion will not whine about other riders not working with him, he will just take it. Andy is afraid to attack alone. Little primadonna.

The reason Andy bothers me so much is the constant excuses, blaming others when he loses, thinking that he's somehow worthy of a team built around him, and considering himself an equal to guys like Contador, who has won six more grand tours than Andy's ZERO.

The Schleck brothers have living legends of cycling suffering on their behalf and they still can't do a damn thing with it.

They resemble the snoody rich kids of the peloton. Obnoxious.

you know, I've been wondering the same thing about my own feelings towards the Schlecks. They do seem like nice guys, but for some reason I can't stand them either. I can't figure out what it is about them that rubs me the wrong way. I really like a lot of riders on their team, but not them. When Contador lost so much time in Stage 1, I resigned myself to Schlecks on the podium. Now, I'm really really hoping Tommy V, Cadel, and Basso take the podium spots. I love the way Tommy V rides and would love for him to win it all.

It's the sense of entitlement. That Andy will win the TdF and is one of the best grand tour riders out there. He speaks as if he deserves the respect of a past winner. But he hasn't won any grand tour yet. Andy has turned into a TdF specialist. He won Liege-Bastogne-Liege a couple of years ago. But that's his one significant win in his career. He has the ability and potential. But the idea that he's on the level with Basso or even Evans fails with me. Bike racing is about winning. I think he would be better served by trying to win one of the other grand tours first. Or the shorter stage races. Get wins and the experience that goes with it. If you're the best rider, drop the other guys. Winning a grand tour involves dropping the other riders on mountain top finishes and riding a great time trial. Andy said earlier in this very tour that there was no excuse for him after Contador lost his time. Now it seems that they're making excuses. Why would they expect anyone to help them? Makes no sense.

A real champion will not whine about other riders not working with him, he will just take it. Andy is afraid to attack alone. Little primadonna.

He needs to read up on his Norse Mythology. Thor can show him what a champion is!

Pros "whining" about their rivals lack of aggression isn't new at all or unique to the Shlecks
L. Fignon "whined" about Lemond not having a "leader's attitude" in the 1989 TDF
S Roche also said that Lemond’s style of racing wasn't very exciting. Are they not champions? lol
Point is, some of you are either ignorant of pro-cycling history or you're selective
in your use of the words "whining" and "champion," or (most likely) it's a combination of the two.

Pros "whining" about their rivals lack of aggression isn't new at all or unique to the Shlecks
L. Fignon "whined" about Lemond not having a "leader's attitude" in the 1989 TDF
S Roche also said that Lemond’s style of racing wasn't very exciting. Are they not champions? lol
Point is, some of you are either ignorant of pro-cycling history or you're selective
in your use of the words "whining" and "champion," or (most likely) it's a combination of the two.

Fignon and Roche won several grand tours in addition to other prominent races. The Schleck brothers are not in the class of Laurent Fignon or Stephen Roche. Other than the national champion of Luxembourg, I would not consider Andy Schleck a "champion."

But you are correct, "whining" isn't unique to the Schlecks. Its actually fairly common in cycling.

A real champion will not whine about other riders not working with him, he will just take it. Andy is afraid to attack alone. Little primadonna.
Guess which "real champion" said:

"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."
"Everybody raced against me. The victory was not possible."

Guess which "real champion" said:

"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."
"Everybody raced against me. The victory was not possible."

Yeah, he was pretty bent after that race. But it is appropriate considering he's a teammate of the Schlecks.

Fignon and Roche won several grand tours in addition to other prominent races. The Schleck brothers are not in the class of Laurent Fignon or Stephen Roche. Other than the national champion of Luxembourg, I would not consider Andy Schleck a "champion."
A non sequitur.
Fignon and Roce's palmares has nothing to do to with my point or the original point I was replying to; which is, champions do "whine." And during the Tour, "whining" is most likely gamesmanship. I don't care for it much, but to try and say, which is just about what everyone on this thread has done, that it's unique to the Shlecks and some sort of character defect, and then to launch into some psychoanalysis of Andy is just idiotic; especially considering that many respected pros have themselves "whined" and no one whines about their having a sense of entitlement.





But you are correct, "whining" isn't unique to the Schlecks. Its actually fairly common in cycling.

Yes, and then it should follow, that the "sense of entitlement" too is fairly common in cycling. And considering that, it seems a bit prejudicial and unfair to bring it up only in regards to the Shlecks.

Basso was complaining that Frank and Andy didn't make the race hard enough. Is he a whinner to?

R

Well clearly, Basso joins Roche, Fignon, Lemond, Armstrong, and Fabian Cancellra in not being "real champions."
As all of them have "whined" about being the victim of "negative racing."
Which also means they all suffer from the same "sense of entitlement." :lol:

A non sequitur.
Fignon and Roce's palmares has nothing to do to with my point or the original point I was replying to; which is, champions do "whine." And during the Tour, "whining" is most likely gamesmanship. I don't care for it much, but to try and say, which is just about what everyone on this thread has done, that it's unique to the Shlecks and some sort of character defect, and then to launch into some psychoanalysis of Andy is just idiotic; especially considering that many respected pros have themselves "whined" and no one whines about their having a sense of entitlement.

Yes, and then it should follow, that the "sense of entitlement" too is fairly common in cycling. And considering that, it seems a bit prejudicial and unfair to bring it up only in regards to the Shlecks.

I agree with you on both aspects. My personal feelings regarding it aren't limited to the Schlecks. It extends to other riders as well. The OP brought up the Schlecks and made the comment "I don't know why I can't stand the Schlecks." My replies dealt specifically with the Schlecks. The Schlecks went out and formed their own team. They're season revolves around winning the TdF. Andy said earlier in this tour that there were no excuses for him. Yet, here they are making excuses. I personally don't care for them. But probably not as much as others. I find their chatter more annoying than anything. Kinda like Farrar complaining about Cav today after he got beat. Go out and win first. Generally, I don't have issue with guys running their mouths. But you better win.

Yeah, he was pretty bent after that race. But it is appropriate considering he's a teammate of the Schlecks.Right, which, according to you, means he too has a "sense of entitlement."

Well clearly, Basso joins Roche, Fignon, Lemond, Armstrong, and Fabian Cancellra in not being "real champions."
As all of them have "whined" about being the victim of "negative racing."
Which also means they all suffer from the same "sense of entitlement." :lol:

The "sense of entitlement" comment I posted relates to guys who haven't actually won yet. Like Andy and Frank. All that you mentioned have won several big races.

Right, which, according to you, means he too has a "sense of entitlement."

Fabian has won several big races including world champion, jeez.

Oh cool, a thread about whinners by whinners.

I agree with you on both aspects. My personal feelings regarding it aren't limited to the Schlecks. It extends to other riders as well. The OP brought up the Schlecks and made the comment "I don't know why I can't stand the Schlecks." My replies dealt specifically with the Schlecks. The Schlecks went out and formed their own team. They're season revolves around winning the TdF. Andy said earlier in this tour that there were no excuses for him. Yet, here they are making excuses. I personally don't care for them. But probably not as much as others. I find their chatter more annoying than anything. Kinda like Farrar complaining about Cav today after he got beat. Go out and win first. Generally, I don't have issue with guys running their mouths. But you better win.
Ah, I see...
But I have no personal animus towards any of these guys; as I have no personal interaction with any of them. Are they "whining"? Probably, but it isn't any different to me then when Fignon "whined" about Lemond supposedly not defending the leader's jersey as a leader should. I guess it's also the limited perspective I'm objecting to. Salud.

Ah, I see...
But I have no personal animus towards any of these guys; as I have no personal interaction with any of them. Are they "whining"? Probably, but it isn't any different to me then when Fignon "whined" about Lemond supposedly not defending the leader's jersey as a leader should. I guess it's also the limited perspective I'm objecting to. Salud.

Was Lemond whining when he did this to Fignon in 1989?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3RV2ukMPNc

Whining ceases to being whining when the whiner wins a big race.
So, if a Schleck wins the TDF, they're (or just the winner is) no longer a whiner(s), nor will he suffer from that sense of entitlement you were talking about. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. :lol:

So, if a Schleck wins the TDF

:lol:

Was Lemond whining when he did this to Fignon in 1989?:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3RV2ukMPNcYes.
Stupid, stupid, stupid....
Try looking up when Lemond "whined" about Argentine not helping him...
Like I said, an impoverished sense of cycling history.

Champions find ways to win. Losers (like the Schlecks) whine about the reasons they lost.

You will never see a Schleck bro in an epic video like that because they don't have it in them to dig down deep and win.

um, cool?

They (Schleck brothers) must have glanced over T. Voeckler--there's a guy who is always agressive.

I love how Voeckler rides. I think it was last year, he was in a breakaway and nobody was working together so Voeckler said screw it, and he bumped it up about 10 notches by attacking the breakaway, which he got into by attacking.

I think everybody (GC guys) expected TV to crack (I did too).
He's a very serious threat, and I think he'll will be treated as such by the top guys.
Be nice if he hangs on...

Frank and Andy have two problems. Lacking of trying is not one of them. Like I said show me the other GC hopefuls attacking. Where are they? First they have Voekler. Andy put in some serious accelerations the GC guys were slow to react, but TV bridged the gap. What would have happened without TV to cover? Who knows? AC covered one and CE may have covered one, but I think TV covered two of them especially when AS and SS had a bit of a gap.

The second problem is the tempo train is lacking input from Monfort and Linus. They needed those two to up the pace when Jens blew, but they have not been much of a factor thus far. If they want to win the weaker brother will have to set aside podium hopes and finish off with tempo pulls to blow the race apart. They are looking for 1 2 in Paris and it is not working out. It Gerdeman can pull it together maybe.

R

Ah, I see...
But I have no personal animus towards any of these guys; as I have no personal interaction with any of them. Are they "whining"? Probably, but it isn't any different to me then when Fignon "whined" about Lemond supposedly not defending the leader's jersey as a leader should. I guess it's also the limited perspective I'm objecting to. Salud.

I think we pretty much have the same perspective. There are probably riders in this very tour that whine as much. I generally give a pass to the ones that win. Guys like Cav. Take last year for example. Andy "whined" after the chain drop incident. Andy attacked AC. AC moved to cover the attack. Andy's chain dropped. AC countered. AC wins the TdF. Andy complains. My feeling is Andy is whining about why he didn't win. Don't wanna hear it buddy. You need to prove that you can actually beat the guy. But that's just my personal feeling.

Fabian, on the other hand, is a world champion. Has gone out an won big classics. He complained because nobody will help on a break or just suck his wheel. Sucks for Fabian. That's what happens when you're proven to be great. But I can understand the frustration.

In the end they're both frustrated riders. I give the pass to the one that wins.

They are looking for 1 2 in Paris and it is not working out.

This. One of those boys needs to go up the road and not let up when one or two of the rivals cover. They need to put someone away, and can't expect to blow up all their rivals in one fell swoop.

Also, they complained about not seeing attacks from the others, but look at each contender:

Evans- Only needs to cover attacks until the TT
Voeckler- Just trying to cover
Contador- Just trying to cover while he heals up and finds his legs
Basso- Will eventually need to gap Evans, but is a good enough TTist that he can wait for the Alpe
Sanchez- The only contender besides the Schlecks who is not a good TTist, and needs to attack. He did.

Every other contender is doing exactly what they need to do to out themselves in the best position to win this race. Why would they attack when they don't need to? Andy and Frank are the only ones who need lots of time in the mountains, so the onus is on them.

I think everybody (GC guys) expected TV to crack (I did too).
He's a very serious threat, and I think he'll will be treated as such by the top guys.
Be nice if he hangs on...

+1
Voeckler will never be allowed to win another breakaway stage in the TdF again. At least one that puts him in or close to yellow. That 2 minute lead he has could end up being insurmountable if he rides the Alps like he did the Pyrenees.

Looks like someone's starting to whine about the Schleck brothers again...

Who are they expecting to attack? Contador clearly doesn't have the legs and Basso & Evans are more diesel-type climbers. Sounds like revisionist history as well, because Evans did put in an attack at one point. Did they forget about Vanedirt (granted, not a GC contender) and Sanchez?

Stephen Roche had a hilarious quote on PEZ (http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=9516&status=True&catname=Latest%20News):


'If I was asked to organise the 2012 Tour de France I'd have the same stages but only time the last two kilometres; and I fit wing mirrors to the Schleck's bikes - and have masseurs on hand at the finish line to give them neck massages for all that strain caused by looking behind.

Well the latest thing I read (though it was via a Google translation) is that in his 'ideal scenario', the Leopard-Trek Director Sportif wants Contador to attack, and the Schlecks would get on his wheel, and with a group of 3 strong climbers they could drop Basso, Evans and the others. Since they already have about 2 minutes on Contador, all they have to do is hold his wheel and that should give them enough of a margin going into the time trial to secure first and second, with Contador taking the third podium slot.

Only two problems with that strategy; If Contador recovers, what stops him from dropping the Schlecks and riding away solo? Or what if he's just not strong enough to put in a strong attack this year?

Who are they expecting to attack? Contador clearly doesn't have the legs and Basso & Evans are more diesel-type climbers. Sounds like revisionist history as well, because Evans did put in an attack at one point. Did they forget about Vanedirt (granted, not a GC contender) and Sanchez?

Stephen Roche had a hilarious quote on PEZ (http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=9516&status=True&catname=Latest%20News):

That is priceless.

Looks like someone's starting to whine about the Schleck brothers again...

OK, I admit it. I'm guilty.

say what you want about contador but you can't deny that he is fun to watch. at least he attacks in anger and frequently throws caution to the wind.
this last week of the tour will tell us if he is recovered from the crashes, totally spent from the giro or both.
frank schleck = pistachio or coffee. andy schleck = vanilla.

Other than the national champion of Luxembourg, I would not consider Andy Schleck a "champion."

National champion of Luxembourg? Luxembourg is 2/3 the population of Fort Worth TX. There are places where you'd have more competition in a county fair than in Luxembourg's national championships.

It's somewhat reminiscent of the kids around here who used to transfer to tiny school districts in their senior year; when the graduating class is only 9 people, you're guaranteed to be in the top ten of your class.

It's the sense of entitlement. That Andy will win the TdF and is one of the best grand tour riders out there. He speaks as if he deserves the respect of a past winner. But he hasn't won any grand tour yet. Andy has turned into a TdF specialist. He won Liege-Bastogne-Liege a couple of years ago. But that's his one significant win in his career. He has the ability and potential. But the idea that he's on the level with Basso or even Evans fails with me. Bike racing is about winning. I think he would be better served by trying to win one of the other grand tours first. Or the shorter stage races. Get wins and the experience that goes with it. If you're the best rider, drop the other guys. Winning a grand tour involves dropping the other riders on mountain top finishes and riding a great time trial. Andy said earlier in this very tour that there was no excuse for him after Contador lost his time. Now it seems that they're making excuses. Why would they expect anyone to help them? Makes no sense.

Well said!!
+10

National champion of Luxembourg? Luxembourg is 2/3 the population of Fort Worth TX. There are places where you'd have more competition in a county fair than in Luxembourg's national championships.

It's somewhat reminiscent of the kids around here who used to transfer to tiny school districts in their senior year; when the graduating class is only 9 people, you're guaranteed to be in the top ten of your class.

:lol: I had a friend who shared that she was a valedictorian in an interview, when the follow up question was "How many in your graduating class?" she was made to look quite silly. She was from a class of 10 or so.

I read the article linked. None of the quotes seemed like whining to me, just factual statements and/or valid opinions. If it wasn't for the title of the article and uses of the words like "complaining", I don't think I would have gotten the impression they're whining.

:lol: I had a friend who shared that she was a valedictorian in an interview, when the follow up question was "How many in your graduating class?" she was made to look quite silly. She was from a class of 10 or so.

Im always the smartest person in a room full of monkeys. :)

All the contenders seem to be playing cat and mouse...the TT will decide it.

All the contenders seem to be playing cat and mouse...the TT will decide it.

I cant recall this many legit contenders this late in the race in a very long time.
Cadel, AS, Voeckler, Sanchez, Basso, AC

Im always the smartest person in a room full of monkeys. :)

That puts you one up on me!

Guess which "real champion" said:

"If I had stopped for coffee, they would have done the same. They never got off my wheel."
"Everybody raced against me. The victory was not possible."

I'm betting the guy with more Grand Tour wins and also more Monuments wins than anyone.

Well, the Schlecks are the only ones attacking. Fair observation, imo. Of course you could just as easily make the argument that the Schleck's attacks haven't been all that impressive. More sort of testing the waters than going for bust. The most impressive rider has been Voeckler. He was the one responding the the Schleck attacks more often than not while the GC's sat on. Also Basso for picking up the pace making. Cuddles put in one little dig. The big disappointment is Contador. I expected him to come out guns blazing and all he's done is elasti-stretch on the back. He wasn't even capable of responding to most of the tentative Schleck feeler attacks and just sat on the back and let the Schlecks play tepid kitty with the other mice.

Can't really forget about Sammy Sanchez either. I'd love to see him nibble away a few seconds here, a few seconds there and end up on the podium ahead of a few of the favorites.