Road Cycling - Cadence???????

Hi everybody,

I have recently gotten into road riding, and am doing less and less mountain biking. I do plan on racing this summer and am greatly looking forward to it.

I have recently bought a 2000 Specialized Allez A1. (more like the A1 sport on the 2002 lineup.) Of course, with a new bike, come the new gadgets. For the first time, I bought a cyclometer that had cadence, and I have been finding my cruising cadence to be around 105 - 110. This sounds awfully high from all the magazines that say 85 - 90, and I know that I should be riding what is comfortable, but am I using extra energy by doing this, or would I be using more, by cranking in a higher gear?

My average speed at the current cadence on most rides is around 29 km/h.

Thanks a lot to anyone who can help...

Do what's comfortable and works. When you get to racing, you'll see what kind of cadence you need to maintain to ride the speed of the race. That would be a good cadence to ride out when you're out by yourself

Higher cadence isn't using more energy. Most actually argue with your side. Riding bigger gears tires your legs out quicker, and unless you've got massive power, it's better to learn to spin.

Do what's comfortable and allows you to maintain a good speed. If you slow down your cadence a bit, maintain the same speed, and feel better, go for it. If not, keep the spin.

velo

I agree use what ever feels good to you. I am a gear masher my cadence is around 75 tops. I was told that I would not last for long distances because my legs would tire or I could not ride large hills at this slow speed. Well I am here to say I do both fine. I have done 200 mile rides with more then 16,000 ft of climbing like this with no trouble. But if I could pick a style I would agree with a better spin 85-100 or so. It just seems easier on your body in the long run. You will have less stress on you knees and feet.

Several years ago Chris Carmichael, through empirical testing, determined that Armstrong generates more power by spinning a smaller gear faster. They changed his training approach to emphasize higher cadence. This was a big change for Armstrong who had always been a big gear masher and kind of had a "Real men mash big gears." philosophy.

I recently read an article on one of the big name coach/physiologists who had come to the same conclusion, again through empirical testing of numerous cyclists, that spinning a smaller gear produces more power with less fatigue.

Obviously we are talking one or two gears lower spinning in the 90s vs the bigger gear turning 60-70 or whatever. I know I can do the same speed longer with less effort that way.
Regards,
Raymond

Being a beginner roadie and being able to spin 105-110 is pretty cool. It took me a few rides to get used to spinning at a high cadence. I still have a tendency to get into a big gear and mash.
Mashing big gears is more of a muscular technique, whereas small gears and spinning is about your heart rate. I've noticed that when I'm mashing my heart rate is slower, but when I spin my heart rate goes up.

There are several components to answering the question, "What's the best cadence", and they include the type of terrain being ridden, the bike's gearing (Which is affected by wheel diameter - 700 or 650), crank arm length, fitness level, pedaling style (For instance, riding the rollers will help achieve a smooth spin), riding alone or in a pack, and, as Mercx said, "Always keep pressure on your pedals".

So, Bike Spokesman, based on my experience, I would suggest that if you're riding a 55cm to 58cm frame, have 170mm crankarms, your gearing is around 12x24/39x52, and you're fairly fit, a good goal would be to try to achieve and maintain around a 100 rpm spin while riding alone in generally flat terrain. But, as others have said, it's important to find the spin that's comfortable for you and allows you to have fun on the bike. If you just ride a lot, it'll come naturally (And it won't matter what guys like me or anyone else says).

See you on the road!

I would like to thank you all for replying so quickly.

To tell you the truth, It is what I wanted to hear. I tried mashing for a bit, and I found that my heart and breathing rate actually went up. (I am lanky and not stong by any means, but I have good endurance). So I guess I'm not gonna try and toy around with what doesn't feel right.


Thanks Again....

Except when climbing a steep hill, I normally spin well over 90 rpm. It is easier on the knees and, in traffic, spinning gives motorists a cue regarding your road speed, which they will otherwise underestimate badly. Spinning on intersection approaches just might save you from being right (near-side) - hooked or from having an oncoming car turn left (far-side) across your path.

I used to ride 90-100 rpms. This spring I consciously pumped it up to 105-115. It took a couple of weeks to get used to. Now I love it, and my bike feels heavy when I drop below 100. Since I am running often in the same gears that I used to ride at the slower cadence, I am in fact coming out with a higher average speed. In the hills I do a little less (75-95). I would say, if it comes naturally, do it.

Cheers,
Jamie

I think, like anything, keep an open mind, and continue to try new things and re-try old things. Your condition will change and improve, and your body may respond differently than in previous experiments.

In a recent foray into Effective Cycling, by John Forester, I noticed something I'd never seen before... a technique for developing an "optimum cycling technique". Cadence is one of the factors. Also, it's advice intended for "hard riding." I'll try to hit the high points and hopefully won't botch it too much.

First, discover the amount of pedal force you can maintain throughout a given ride. This will be somewhat greater for short rides than for long ones. Having decided on the pedal force to experiment with, raise the cadence until you are breathing hard, but are not out of breath. As you speed up, the increased air resistance may increase the pedal force more than you think advisable, so decrease gear and speed until you reach a gear, speed, and cadence that can be maintained for the duration of the ride. This can be used on a level road, with no wind.

This is scientific and illustrates the principles. You obviously have to adjust somewhat for real-world riding situations. Forester advocates targeting a cadence range of 90-110 rpm.

Going along with cadence- I'm trying to figure out a way to increase my cadence. At first, I was using bigger gears, but when I saw those cyclists flying past me on the bike path, I had to reconsider. When I went with smaller gears today, I could feel myself going a lot faster. My problem is that I don't have anyplace to work on cadence. The bike paths are pretty crowded. The streets where I live are extremely congested... I am feeling really frustrated!

Any suggestions? I live in a big city.


Koffee Brown

The bike paths are pretty crowded. The streets where I live are extremely congested... I am feeling really frustrated!


Maybe you could throw your bike in the car and head out into the country side and ride from there. It's not ideal as it is a pain to drive somewhere to ride but this will certainly open up some new roads for you.

CHEERS.

Mark

On raising cadence, here is my experience this Spring--which has been successful. (I suppose this is particularly addressed to Koffee's question.)

1. You have to be disciplined about holding your cadence to your ideal. Pick a range, and gear up or down to stay there--all the time, as best as you can. (Hills are the exception, of course. But even here, you should have an appropriate “hill range.”) For this you need hard numbers to reinforce yourself.

If you don’t have a cyclometer which reports cadence, you can make a small table, which you tape to your handlebar stem. I made one with four columns for 90, 100, 110, 120 rpms. The rows show the speed for each gear at each rpm. With the speed from your cyclometer, you’ll know your cadence (I can post the equation, should you need it). For me, it made all the difference in the world to have concrete numbers. There seems to be a natural tendency to allow the cadence to fall, especially at the end of ride when you are tired. So, you need hard numbers to help maintain discipline.

2. I was riding a bit slower, since it was early in the season. I think this made it easier to adapt. If you can’t maintain a certain speed, gear down to hold to your ideal range. Once you get used to the new cadence, it will be relatively easy to bring your speed back up.

3. Do high-rpm intervals. Here, I used a really low gear, and did a short interval routine (10 seconds on/10 sec. “rest”, i.e. slower rpms; repeat 3 times; then ride 5 min. within your new ideal range; then repeat). Here, I pedalled well past 130 rpms, probably as high as 150 or more (since these are not on my table, I’m not sure). You'll probably start to bounce in the saddle at about 120. The goal here is to get your legs used to spinning really fast, which will help normalize your new range. You can even do them on a slight downhill. Don’t think of it as a typical strength building interval. I still bounce in the saddle somewhere above 120, but I have gotten smoother.

4. It will take longer than you expect to adapt. For me, I needed a good 500 miles for it to seem natural. So, be patient with yourself.

I think that even in the city, you should be able to adapt. The key is discipline and patience. I love my new 105-115 range. I think you will be happier with a higher cadence, too. Best of luck!

Cheers,
Jamie

Jamie,
Good stuff! Thanks for the tips. Your experience has encouraged me to start working on boosting my everyday cadence to the 110 or so range. My "norm" right now is somewhere between 90 and 100 just depending on how I feel, but I have been wanting to boost that up. It's not unusual to find myself pedaling around 110-115 already but only on days when I am feeling particularly fresh or riding in a group, which is rare. Most of the time it takes conscious effort which I just have not applied systematically. Now is the time!

I also have noticed something you mentioned in an earlier reply. A gear that feels effortless at 90 suddenly becomes drudgery at 60-70 I assume because you have not quite hit that point where inertia kicks in.
Regards,
Raymond

Wow! That's really neat. :) :) Thanks fubar! I've been looking for something like this before I invest in a cadence monitor. Grrreat!

Originally posted by velo
Wow! That's really neat. :) :) Thanks fubar! I've been looking for something like this before I invest in a cadence monitor. Grrreat!



jmlee is the creator..I merely posted it.

In the hope that folks are able to download and use the excel file which I wrote up, let me please stress:

Read the instructions at the bottom of the sheet!

They are not complicated. The trouble is, if you just willy-nilly start changing things, it can corrupt the calculations.

Of course, if you know your way around excel, you are perfectly free to change it to your heart's desire.

Many thanks to Fubar for getting it up on the web.

Have fun with it!
Cheers,
Jamie

I have now posted the Gear-Cadence Table on my very own web page. Feel free to download it. Like I have said, please read the instructions at the bottom of the worksheet.

http://www.uni-bonn.de/~jmlee/

Have fun!

Cheers,
Jamie

This cadence thread reminds me of the time (ca. 1974) I invited the manager of one of Bikecology/Supergo's shops to climb Tuna Canyon with me on his new Colnago. He had just purchased an analog speedometer/tachometer, whose two large needles resembled tape recorder VU meters. As we approached the first steep switchback, he noted that his cadence had already fallen to less than 50 RPM in low gear. As it drooped below 40, he said, "This is B.S." as he turned around and headed back home.

Originally posted by jmlee
I have now posted the Gear-Cadence Table on my very own web page. Feel free to download it. Like I have said, please read the instructions at the bottom of the worksheet.

http://www.uni-bonn.de/~jmlee/



Umm...is it just me? When I click on the link and try to download (either one), I get the following:

"Object not found!

The requested URL was not found on this server.

The link on the referring page seems to be wrong or outdated. Please inform the author of that page.

In case you entered the URL manually please check your spelling and try again.

In case you think this is a server error, please contact the Webmaster.

Error 404"

:confused:

The site jmlee posted works for me, but the one I posted doesn't.

I have double checked the URL and files. It works for me just fine with both Netscape and IE.

Instead of just clicking on the file, you may have to click and hold (or right click for Windoze). This will bring up a menu, under which you should choose something like "save file." (This all has to do with how you have your browser configured to handle Excel files. Your browser may be thinking that the file is supposed to be handled like a regular web page, instead of saved to disk).

I have used the most basic of basic HTML here, so there shouldn't be any problems on my end.

Best of luck,
Jamie

Addendum:

Since it was pointed out to me by RonH that the filenames have a space which may prevent some systems from handling them correctly, I have now changed the filenames to read Gear-Cadence_Table_2.xls, etc. The spaces (before the word Table) are a bad Macintosh habit. The new file names should make it work more reliably.

Cheers,
Jamie

Originally posted by jmlee

If you don’t have a cyclometer which reports cadence, you can make a small table, which you tape to your handlebar stem. I made one with four columns for 90, 100, 110, 120 rpms.

During a CPR instructor class, I was once told the "Bridge on the river kwia" was about 100 beats per minute. The CPR cadence "One and Two and Three and" is about 80 beats per minute. I suppose you could transpose that to timing your cadence.

Whistle while you ride!

A metronome in the pocket or mounted to the handlebars would also do the trick.

Of course, the pendulum type metronomes would be less than ideal. But, I could imagine creating lots of fun as one leans into a corner and the "tock, tock" of the metronome goes off rhythm. Hmmm.... probably not ideal for spinning smooth circles.

Wouldn't a metronome also oblige the rider to sing at the top of his/her lungs?:p

Cheers,
Jamie

Update:

Just to let everyone know, I have posted new and updated versions of the Gear Cadence Tables at: www.uni-bonn.de/~jmlee.

There are now tables for 2 and 3 chainrings and for 7, 8, 9, & 10 cogs. This should save most users the trouble of deleting the extra rows.

Cheers,
Jamie