Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - at the end of the day............. my butt hurts.....

The last four miles of the rode today, my butt started to really hurt. I am not sure why. I had padded shorts on but perhaps its not enough padding?

Where should I try to tweak?

- the saddle?
-the shorts (get ones that have more padding)
- just condition the butt?

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?

I think you said this is your third ride, and with spending 3 or so hours in the saddle I think some pain is to be expected. I'd give it some more time.

That being said my butt hasn't really hurt since getting my brooks. I am dealing with some chafing though, but I think there are some other things I can do for that.

It gets better the more time you spend on the bike. From what I understand, you don't want excessive padding in the shorts or the seat. I have 2 pairs, one moderately expensive and the other kind of expensive, the more expensive pair has less padding but is twice as comfortable. From what i can tell with my limited time in cycling, is that like everything else you get what you pay for.

You may also want to try some of that chamois butter, or other bike shorts lube. From experience it does get better the more you ride.

The last four miles of the rode today, my butt started to really hurt. I am not sure why. I had padded shorts on but perhaps its not enough padding?

Where should I try to tweak?

- the saddle?
-the shorts (get ones that have more padding)
- just condition the butt?

Thoughts, comments, suggestions?


If the first reply is right that you've only ridden a few times then it's to be expected you'll have a sore behind at first. That said there's nothing wrong with trying to make things better.

Check where your weight sits on the saddle. The wide part of the saddle should support your sit bones. If you sit too far forward you'll put your weight onto more sensitive areas, which won't feel great after a time.

If your saddle is too high you'll be rocking slightly from side to side to turn the pedals. That won't do anything to help your rear either, it will make you sore faster, and won't do your legs much good either. If that's the case lower your saddle a little.

If the nose of your saddle is too low you'll tend to slide towards the front, which will cause the issue of your weight in the wrong place. If it's too high you'll tend to squash sensitive parts against it and potentially tend to slide off the back of it.

The padding on the shorts isn't really there to provide more padding - it's there to reduce or eliminate chafing. Fast89fox is correct - more padding often makes things worse, not better. The extra padding will often cause your weight to be born by the soft tissues - exactly what you don't want.

So, the question is - without getting too graphic, please! - where exactly are you hurting? is it on the bones (usually referred to as sit bones)? This is where your weight should be supported, and can often feel bruised as you build up your mileage and time on the saddle. Although not pleasant, if this is where you are hurting that's actually a good thing - your saddle is supporting you where it should be. Keep riding and you should build up a tolerance for this.

If the pain is elsewhere, you probably need to try a different saddle or adjust the position of your current saddle.

If it's really chafing, then chamois butter, different shorts or (sometimes) a different saddle will usually take care of that.

If it's saddle sores (boils or zits in really uncomfortable places) - then the same answer as chafing, although improved hygiene is also a frequent solution. Note that a doctor may need to lance a really badly infected sore.

JB

The padding on the shorts isn't really there to provide more padding - it's there to reduce or eliminate chafing. Fast89fox is correct - more padding often makes things worse, not better. The extra padding will often cause your weight to be born by the soft tissues - exactly what you don't want.

So, the question is - without getting too graphic, please! - where exactly are you hurting? is it on the bones (usually referred to as sit bones)? This is where your weight should be supported, and can often feel bruised as you build up your mileage and time on the saddle. Although not pleasant, if this is where you are hurting that's actually a good thing - your saddle is supporting you where it should be. Keep riding and you should build up a tolerance for this.

If the pain is elsewhere, you probably need to try a different saddle or adjust the position of your current saddle.

If it's really chafing, then chamois butter, different shorts or (sometimes) a different saddle will usually take care of that.

If it's saddle sores (boils or zits in really uncomfortable places) - then the same answer as chafing, although improved hygiene is also a frequent solution. Note that a doctor may need to lance a really badly infected sore.

JB

It totally could just be the saddle like jonathanb715 mentioned. I went through a few saddles before I found the one for me. Luckily my lbs has a exchange program. One word of advice, don't get a big fat gel padded saddle, cause you will be hurting more trust me. I really think that chamois butter does help.

I had no idea that I've ridden over 620 miles these last two months until I added them up. During that time, I hadda get my butt used to my bicycle seat..... a gel Specialized saddle for which I had the distance between my sit bones measured. Recently I've been going through seat position: fore & aft, angle of tilt, height from the pedals. What never ceases to amaze me, is how ever-so-slight adjustments can make a HUGE difference in perceived comfort.

In addition, I have three pair of cycle shorts.... all cheap. I am starting to appreciate things like seemingly absent seams (mine have got MAJOR seams, and they can suck!). The material the padded area is made of, gel or chamois.... it's shape, the overall quality of the shorts, etc.(?!!?). One of my shorts feel like chafe is inevitable if I put long enough time in the saddle, another pair puts unwanted pressure/abrasion where I sit (actually a handy pair to wear when figuring out saddle positioning).

And then there is the anti-chafe goop...... I haven't quite figured that out yet. How much, where, how often, is there anything better or best??? I got it from a local rider that the most readily available and affordable stuff around (biggest "secret") is yer basic Bag Balm from virtually any pharmacy, and costing MUCH less than designer stuff sold by your LBS'

My butt is getting broken-in, I'm starting to appreciate why better ($$$) cycle shorts/bibs might be better, and I can not begin to tell you how just the most minute adjustment of my leather Brooks Imperial (w/central cut-out) cycle saddle can make a world of difference. But it takes almost a whole ride to figure out how you might want to adjust/correct the saddle position. My Specialized saddle by the way, is VERY forgiving with regard to positioning, but I'm starting to understand why the leather Brooks can be quite comfortable.

You're gonna hafta put time in, not be afraid of adjusting your seat, and think about splurging for some quality shorts.... someday, I hope to replace my cheap shorts with some quality bibs.

The padding on the shorts isn't really there to provide more padding - it's there to reduce or eliminate chafing. Fast89fox is correct - more padding often makes things worse, not better. The extra padding will often cause your weight to be born by the soft tissues - exactly what you don't want.+1 Some good advice here in jonathon's post.

Also, just my opinion here, gels have no business being anywhere near a bike or rider.


In addition, I have three pair of cycle shorts.... all cheap. I am starting to appreciate things like seemingly absent seams (mine have got MAJOR seams, and they can suck!). The material the padded area is made of, gel or chamois.... it's shape, the overall quality of the shorts, etc.(?!!?). One of my shorts feel like chafe is inevitable if I put long enough time in the saddle, another pair puts unwanted pressure/abrasion where I sit (actually a handy pair to wear when figuring out saddle positioning).Ahh... the eyes are opened... :D


And then there is the anti-chafe goop...... I haven't quite figured that out yet. How much, where, how often, is there anything better or best??? I got it from a local rider that the most readily available and affordable stuff around (biggest "secret") is yer basic Bag Balm from virtually any pharmacy, and costing MUCH less than designer stuff sold by your LBS'

There are many different kinds of chamois creams around. I personally use Friction Freedom. It has an anti-bacterial ingredient. I find it's on a par with Assos' Chamois Creme, but costs alot less. I don't use it all the time, but whenever I get a saddle sore, I start using it again. Sore goes away after a couple days. I use one finger full, and apply directly to the skin covering my sit bones and the area between scrotum and anus. Other riders apply it directly to the chamois pad, covering the whole pad. (I don't like that 'cause it'll smear on the legs when pulling up the shorts.)

Here is the bike and saddle:

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/284678_2111508519767_1607271639_2061767_3077096_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/215161_2111508239760_1607271639_2061766_45009_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/199882_2111505879701_1607271639_2061756_2194177_n.jpg

Wfournier and I both thought the saddle might be a little narrow for the OP. Then again, we both ride Brooks, so what do we know?

The OP and his bike:

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/253226_2111506319712_1607271639_2061758_5497367_n.jpg

In my experience, if the saddle feels uncomfortable then you either need more time on the bike or perhaps better shorts.

If the saddle is downright painful, you need a new saddle. At the end of the day, an ass hatchet is always going to feel like an ass hatchet...

And then there is the anti-chafe goop...... I haven't quite figured that out yet. How much, where, how often, is there anything better or best??? I got it from a local rider that the most readily available and affordable stuff around (biggest "secret") is yer basic Bag Balm from virtually any pharmacy, and costing MUCH less than designer stuff sold by your LBS'



I use the Bag Balm - it works, and it lasts a good long time. However, it's base is petroleum jelly - Vaseline. Lots of people get reactions to it, and I've heard it can break down some materials used in bike shorts (I've never had a problem with either). It also has lanolin and an anti-biotic compound in it. It works for me. I use it if I'm riding more than 2 hours - and it's worked well on rides as long as 200 miles. If I'm going to use it I use lots. YMMV.

JB

mkadam: where do youget the Friction Freedom from?

Direct (http://www.frictionfreedom.com/) from them.

thank you!

kinda expensive.

If it is any consolation, my butt hurts looking at your saddle.:eek: This is of course coming from a convert to Brooks.

please see my sig. :D

FWIW, here's a quick & brief review (http://thecblog.familyloftus.com/blog/2010/06/27/chamois-creme/) of top/popular cycling-specific chamois cremes.

I recommend rewrapping your bars. All things will be better then. ;)

please see my sig. :D "The more you ride your bike, the less your ass will hurt."

I'd venture to guess that this is the issue.


chefissac- Does it feel like someone (your bike, perhaps?) kicked you in the butt and your sitbones are now sore? Do you have some soreness if sitting on a hard surface?
If so, you probably just need a little more time to break in your butt. A 3 hour ride without at least a couple weeks of shorter rides is usually going to be a painful experience for someone starting out on a smaller sadde, being a clyde doesn't help the matter. The chamois creams some are recommending are a good idea if chafing is or could be a problem.



FWIW, here's a quick & brief review (http://thecblog.familyloftus.com/blog/2010/06/27/chamois-creme/) of top/popular cycling-specific chamois cremes.

The Chamois Butt'r Eurostyle briefly mentioned in the review does have anti-bacterial/microbial ingredients. It's also half the price of the Friction Freedom per oz., widely available at many bike shops, and also has $1 sample packs if someone wants to try it out.

The Chamois Butt'r Eurostyle briefly mentioned in the review does have anti-bacterial/microbial ingredients. It's also half the price of the Friction Freedom per oz., widely available at many bike shops, and also has $1 sample packs if someone wants to try it out.

Thanks for the info. I hadn't tried it yet.

mkad: thanks for the review link. Very helpful. Perhaps it was a little biast since they are sponsored by Fricton Freedom?

Is the sit bone the tail bone ?

I think it is chaffing. When I sit on a hard surface it hurts only a little but when I rub the area where the seat was in contact with my skin, it hurts. So I think it is chaffing???

craig: I just bought that bike and the first ride I did, the tape slipped because my of hand position. Is the factory wrapping usually bad?

craig: I just bought that bike and the first ride I did, the tape slipped because my of hand position. Is the factory wrapping usually bad?

Did you buy it new from the shop? I've never seen a brand new bike have tape slip anything close to that bad from a single ride. Something wasn't done right. It's hard to tell from the pics, but it could have been wrapped in the wrong direction, or not pulled tight enough, or they didn't use the DIY wrencher's secret weapon: double-stick tape under the bar tape, on the outside face of the bar's curved sections. Your brake levers aren't loose on the handelbars by any chance, are they?

Not having ever worked in a bike shop, I don't know if bar wrapping is done as a part of the assembly process, or if bars come wrapped from the Giant factory, but someone someplace did something poorly on yours. I'd show it to the LBS.

Also, the tail bone is not what folks around here refer to when they talk about the "sit bones." The tail bone is the coccyx, and isn't, or shouldn't be, in contact with your saddle at all - it's right in the middle at the very bottom of your spine. The sit bones, or ischial tuberosities, are the bottom extensions of your pelvis, and they're a pair. You can feel them pretty easily if you sit on your hands on a hard surface. Those are the structures that should be supported by a proper-fitting saddle, and not the soft tissues of the perineum between them. Even so, there are some soft tissues between the sit bones and the saddle, and they'll get bruised a little on your first rides. They toughen up in time. I always tell friends new to cycling that the only thing that hurts worse than your first ride is your second, and in some cases, your third.

thanks craig. Damn... I was just at the bike shop I bought it from and its a two hour drive one way :(

Also, the tail bone is not what folks around here refer to when they talk about the "sit bones." The tail bone is the coccyx, and isn't, or shouldn't be, in contact with your saddle at all - it's right in the middle at the very bottom of your spine. The sit bones, or ischial tuberosities, are the bottom extensions of your pelvis, and they're a pair. You can feel them pretty easily if you sit on your hands on a hard surface. Those are the structures that should be supported by a proper-fitting saddle, and not the soft tissues of the perineum between them. Even so, there are some soft tissues between the sit bones and the saddle, and they'll get bruised a little on your first rides. They toughen up in time. I always tell friends new to cycling that the only thing that hurts worse than your first ride is your second, and in some cases, your third.

So what's the best approach to HTFU in this regard? Wait for the first set of bruises to go away, and then get a second set? Keep grinding away daily? Do shorter rides up to a pain point and stop? Is there an accepted regimine to get the process over with quickest?

KeS

Is the sit bone the tail bone ?

I think it is chaffing. When I sit on a hard surface it hurts only a little but when I rub the area where the seat was in contact with my skin, it hurts. So I think it is chaffing???

Chafing is pretty much limited to irritated skin. The soreness when sitting on a hard surface and when rubbing the area sounds more like your soft tissue needs to break in, like in CraigB's thorough explanation.

If I slack off from the trainer in the spring the first 25 miler will leave me a little bruised and I'll feel it on the next ride, but will usually be OK after that.

So what's the best approach to HTFU in this regard? Wait for the first set of bruises to go away, and then get a second set? Keep grinding away daily? Do shorter rides up to a pain point and stop? Is there an accepted regimine to get the process over with quickest?

KeS


It really depends on how fast you want to get past it. I've typically found that the ride immediately after the 'bruising event' is the worst, and you'll recover fairly quickly after that. If one wanted to they could probably gradually increase time/mileage and experience only very mild discomfort on a few occasions, but IMO I don't want my butt to be the limiting factor in getting miles in on my bike. I had a rigid mountain bike about 20 years ago that had a carbon fiber seat on it. No leather on top, no padding, just rails and carbon fiber while riding on singletrack. That seat left me hurting for about a week the first time I put in some decent miles.

So what's the best approach to HTFU in this regard? Wait for the first set of bruises to go away, and then get a second set? Keep grinding away daily? Do shorter rides up to a pain point and stop? Is there an accepted regimine to get the process over with quickest?

KeS

What's always worked for me is to just get out and ride. Do what you can, but don't give up and turn around right out of the gate. Even early in the season, when my butt is at its most tender, the second ride might start a little painfully, but it will stop within a few minutes. Others may not get such speedy results. It might take three or four rides. Once you're past it, though, you'll look back and think it was no big deal.

I agree with dehoff's suggestion that it probably isn't chafing, if for no other reason than the sit-bone areas shouldn't be sliding around on the saddle (or inside your shorts), which is really the only way for chafing to happen. It's pretty easy to tell chafing from tissue bruising just from the way they feel. The former is a skin abrasion/irritation issue and the skin itself is where the pain will be - you'll feel pain from just touching the skin alone; the latter is deeper under the surface and isn't really felt until pressure is applied in the area.

What's always worked for me is to just get out and ride. Do what you can, but don't give up and turn around right out of the gate. Even early in the season, when my butt is at its most tender, the second ride might start a little painfully, but it will stop within a few minutes. Others may not get such speedy results. It might take three or four rides. Once you're past it, though, you'll look back and think it was no big deal.

Ok. Just didn't want to be making things worse/longer.

KeS

I do not think it is the sit bone becasue I sat on a hard surface last night with my hands under my butt and no hurting. It does hurt if I rub it. So perhaps chafing or brusing.

I rode 9 miles yesterday and it hurt for sure.

Things I will use to remidy this: 1- will get new pair of cycling shorts. I talked with a guy yesterday and he said that cycling shorts are like shoes... the more you use them the more they will wear out. I have had this pair for a while and use it when I am at the gym doing cardio.

2- will try a cream of some sort

3- ride more.

just ordered new bibs and fricton freedom. How much friction freedom do I need to use?

I agree with dehoff's suggestion that it probably isn't chafing, if for no other reason than the sit-bone areas shouldn't be sliding around on the saddle (or inside your shorts), which is really the only way for chafing to happen.

Chafing can also occur on long rides in hot or humid conditions. At some point, the chamois gets saturated and loses its ability to wick moisture away from your skin, which makes you more prone to chafing. DAMHIKT. With poor shorts, or the wrong saddle, you can also get chafing at the top of the leg due to repeated rubbing against the edges of the saddle.

I rode 9 miles yesterday and it hurt for sure.

Things I will use to remidy this: 1- will get new pair of cycling shorts. I talked with a guy yesterday and he said that cycling shorts are like shoes... the more you use them the more they will wear out. I have had this pair for a while and use it when I am at the gym doing cardio.

Well, at least you're going to cover all of the fixes except the most obvious one: the saddle itself. In my experience, ass hatchets like the one you're riding only work for professional racers with cast-iron butts...


just ordered new bibs and fricton freedom. How much friction freedom do I need to use?

None? With a good pair of shorts and the right saddle, you shouldn't need chamois cream for most rides. Certainly not for a short 9-mile ride...

I will be looking at saddles later this week.

sstorkel: 9 miles to you might be different then me. I am just starting out, over weight and outta shape.

None? With a good pair of shorts and the right saddle, you shouldn't need chamois cream for most rides. Certainly not for a short 9-mile ride...

I agree. In fact, I've never used any kind of chamois treatment. I know a lot of people swear by them, but I've never found them necessary. YMMV, I suppose.

What do you end up looking for in a saddle? I think of it like its buying a pair of shoes..... you can try them on and it might feel great now but hurt later.

What do you end up looking for in a saddle? I think of it like its buying a pair of shoes..... you can try them on and it might feel great now but hurt later.
That they say Brooks B17 on the box.

lol. thank you

After getting my sit bones measured.... I paid $88 for a Specialized wannabe gel seat. VERY forgiving in position and angle, I put my butt through hail for 400 miles before buying a B-17 Imperial (w/central cut-out).... LOVE it! But setting the angle, height, fore & aft of the B-17 is time consuming and labor intensive, gotta be patient.

jethro: was there a break in period for you with that saddle?

rando: was there a break in period with yours?

And how did you all settle on the type of brook saddle?

The brooks was instantly better than the bontrager hybrid saddle I had. I only have 1500 miles on it so it's still breaking in. It just keeps getting more comfortable or maybe I'm just more of a hard ass.

jethro: I am going to philadelphia either today or sometime this week to take a look at the brooks saddles. Hopeful my butt will be thankful! :)

Make sure you become intimately familiar with this:

http://sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html

Then get yourself properly fitted, you can DIY but it helps a lot to get a professional opinion. I got fitted at a specialized dealer, and I love my Alias. I used to have a lot of issues with saddles/chafing and sore knees/low power output/sore wrists until I got properly fitted in terms of seat height, seat position, and seat angle...Now I go on metric centuries without any issues at all...No chafing, numbness, etc.

I hope this is obvious, but make sure you wear NOTHING underneath your bike shorts.

Oh yeah, if ur up for it, there's always the http://www.sheldonbrown.com/real-man.html

kenoshi: thank you for the post and link!

I've read this and I haven't figured out if you are totally new to riding or not. But I on one occassion I tilted my saddle slightly upward (someone had noted that my saddles look like they are angled with the nose too low) and I suddenly had painful riding experience I got about 6 miles in my normal 20 mile ride and headed back not knowing how I would ever make it back. A very slight adjustment can have a lot of effect. Before getting a new saddle try tweeking the angle, this may help. If your new to riding then it may just take some time to harden your butt.

I am not new to riding, I have been riding for 35 years with many miles and a yearly tour. So after the above incident I readjusted my saddle to how it felt good to me and not how it looks to someone else. In the past, I have been able to ride centuries and week long tours without much discomfort.

About the handlebar tape, all the bikes that I have assembled at the couple of shops that I worked at along time ago came with the bars wrapped.

As for Brooks, I have a Brooks Team Pro that I have gotten this past winter rode with it on my trainer and outdoors when the weather got better. I have 400+ miles on it and it doesn't feel too much different from when I got it new. Not sure if it is broken in. But it feels about the same or a bit more comfortable than some of my other saddles.

just got the b17 brooks. Great people at the bike shop in Philadelphia. They really spend the time with you to explain stuff.