Advocacy & Safety - Making Cycling Criminal

Ok... I know there are a lot of us from New York City on here, so it's time we got together. What I'm about to show you is the reason that we have to act to protect our rights to the streets, be it on a Critical Mass ride, or by joining advocacy organizations like TA. Check this out, and tell me it doesn't make your blood boil:


Action Alert!
Stop the Anti-Bicycling Bill!

A draconian anti-bicycling bill, Int. No. 497, was recently introduced to the New York City Council by Councilmember Madeline Provenzano.

If passed, Int. No. 497 would require every bicycling New Yorker over sixteen years old to obtain bicycle license tags from the NYC Department of Transportation. The bill stipulates that those who do not display such tags on their bicycles would be subject to up to 15 days imprisonment in addition to hefty fines and bicycle confiscation.

Yes, you heard that correctly. Registration for bikes.

Face facts people, they want us off the streets.

If you live in New York City, fill out the form at the bottom of this page (http://www.transalt.org/press/askta/041116bikebill.html#fax) to have a fax sent to Madeline Provenzano. Be respectful, we want to project a good image of us contrary to what they're trying to do.

Fill in all the information; without it the faxes are usually disregarded.

Don't take this laying down, or we're all going to be standing in line together to get license plates for our bikes. Also, email (or PM) me if you live in NYC and will be attending the Critical Mass ride the day after Thanksgiving so we can coordinate a meeting place and time and ride together.

Let's show them what thousands of cyclists in the Big Apple think of politicians who want us off the road.

Thanks guys.

15 days imprisonment???????? Do the car drivers face that for not registering their cars?

Hey Vincen!

Man I just got that email from T.A. also. What the hell is with this City?

I had one of the most frustrating commutes home today in quite a while.

Masses of people jaywalking together effectively making it a "walk" signal (pedestrian critical mass) , I get down to Herald Square Park and the planters next to the bike lane have been moved IN TO the bike lane, so now the lane is full of people too!

Then I get down to Union Square where a car pulls out in front of me, from being parked, then stops suddenly when I start pedaling again. THEN backs up. I smacked the trunk of his car, and go around him. He calls me an ******* and peels rubber trying to giving me a little hit!!!!

WOW.

Anyway I've had it with the way the City treats bikers. It's bananas.

I'm doing everything I can to make myself more visible as the winter creeps in. I just ordered two new lights and an Illuminite jacket to boot.

I definitely want to do Critical Mass this month. I haven't done one since August or so and would love to get back out there.

Yes, you heard that correctly. Registration for bikes.

Face facts people, they want us off the streets.


Registering bikes takes them off the streets? And we thought neo-cons were paranoid!

Nope, got it backwards. Critical Mass has demonstrated, beyond all doubt, that bicycles can be used on the road to flee the scene of a crime. Reckless cyclists have exploited their anonymity and put all cyclists at risk as a resut.

Bikes should be registered so that their owners can be found and held responsible...not leave them by the roadside and run off like the little chicken-sh*ts they were in NYC during the republican convention. Since CM members are too gutless to control their friskier members, let the cops do it.

How odd I should read your letter today. I just got back from dialing 911 and reporting a driver swaying erratically in the roadway; she appeared to be drunk, or perhaps ill. Of course we did so by using her license plate, which enabled the vehicle to be identified by the state police who pulled in front of us [and behind her] a few minutes later.

Thanks for the fax form; with a few choice edits, I made my preferences clear.

roughstuff

Tell me one way in which forcing every single adult cyclist in the city to register their bike (like a car) and either fining or confiscating bikes is going to help police enforce anything.

As for the RNC, even the most jaded observer knows that the majority of riders in those CM rides were not from this city. I suppose if you believe they were, you believe that the NION protests were all New Yorkers also.

This is harassment plain and simple. The city wants to have an excuse to nail cyclists, and this is yet another attempt to make cycling in this city more difficult. Plain and bloody simple.

And before you flame me as some liberal greenie whatever, I voted for Bush, I'm a hardcore conservative with very libertarian leanings in many ways, and as anyone who's been here for awhile will tell you I'm not the biggest fan of CM.

HOWEVER

I do not tolerate stuff like this laying down. This isn't about CM, it's about cycling, and the city making an attempt to make it more difficult. If you want to take that and be happy about it, that's your right.

I for one am not going to, and I have a feeling there are a hell of a lot more people in here that agree with me than agree with you.

Oh, and Konakazi, let me know if you decide to do the ride. I'll be there along with a few others from here.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but...

1 - What is the motivation behind the bill? Are they searching for additional sources of tax revenue? If so, can you offer other options?

2 - What are the actual chances of passage of this bill? If it's unlikely to pass, why do anything? If it might pass, are there political avenues that can be taken such as calling in a favor from a well-situated political friend?

3 - Are you being baited into over-reacting? If the Councilmember sees this as a longshot, she might be clever enough to get you to prove her point for her by getting you into the streets. Then she can step in front of a TV camera and tell the good folks at home that bicycle licensing will put an end to all this out-of-control revelry.

I know I'm just a simple southerner who doesn't understand life in the big city, but redneck South Carolina sheriffs have been using that last trick it for ages. And it still works!

Madeline Provenzano 2931 Westchester Square, Bronx 10461
City Hall: (212) 788-7375
District: (718) 931-6060
Fax: (718) 518-8443
Email: provenzano@council.nyc.ny.us

I think I'll just email her directly and tell her what a dumbass she is.
My girlfriend's hybrid has no room on the back for the dumbassed license plate. Either she's got her blinker there or the damn plate.

Bikes should be registered so that their owners can be found and held responsible...not leave them by the roadside and run off like the little chicken-sh*ts they were in NYC during the republican convention. Since CM members are too gutless to control their friskier members, let the cops do it.
roughstuff


While you are welcome to your mistaken opinions regarding CM, you are just plain wrong about the facts as concerns the bike seizures of CM riders who locked their bikes and walked away from the scene. This took place in September, not August. During August, the seizures were preemptive (took place in the days leading up to the CM and the RNC) but at the pre-RNC CM, the NYPD's tactics were to seal the street at both ends, and catalogus and seize the bicycles of all the cyclists caught up in the nets. So while you can certainly make a case that riders at the Spetember CM were chickensh*ts, the riders at the August ride simply had no opportunity to be chickensh*ts in the way you describe. anecdotally, as on of the cyclists who was arrested at the August CM, most of the cyclists at that event were very much willing to accept the legal consequences and fight aginst the arrests withing the legal system. I didn't meet and haven't since talked to any chickensh*ts from the group of 265 who were arrested, though some of the women arrested were pretty mouthy about the whole thing.

And secondly, again in the spirit of respecting your right to your opinions while correcting your mistaken beliefs concerning the facts, CM is not an organization, and CM has no members. CM is an event. Individual cyclists participate in the event. New York is the exception to the rule in this, in that an organization called time's up (times-up.org) takes it upon itself to include CM among the many cycling events that it promotes and, as is needed, defends. But CM itself is a leaderless event, not a club or a group. This is an important distinction, and I urge you to come to terms with it. It may help you in thinking about why, exactly, you oppose CM if you understand what, exactly, it is.

Best,
Laika

Oh, and Konakazi, let me know if you decide to do the ride. I'll be there along with a few others from here.

allright, V, you've shamed me into sending them my money and joining TA. If you're willing to ride CM, I can certainly put at least some of my money where my mouth is. Thx for the link and info.

(1) Tell me one way in which forcing every single adult cyclist in the city to register their bike (like a car) and either fining or confiscating bikes is going to help police enforce anything....

(2) And before you flame me as some liberal greenie whatever, I voted for Bush, I'm a hardcore conservative with very libertarian leanings in many ways, and as anyone who's been here for awhile will tell you I'm not the biggest fan of CM.

On your first comment...I already HAVE done that, Vince. If you have a license plate that enables you to be identified you can't hide in your anonymity. Afer having a few fines or confiscations your behavior is likely to change.

On the second point, I know you are conservative, as I have read many other of your posts. As a conservative, you know the role of incentives and importance of risk and reward. Extreme elements of CM are ruining it for everyone else. The 'organization' should either police itself, or it will be policed.

Every vehicle on the road should be identifiable so that violators can be reported and punished. What better way to identify them than to have the equivalent of license plates?

Has registering bikes in European countries reduced their use?

roughstuff

I'm also interested at the odds of this thing passing and/or if it's just gonna be slipped in.

It would be interesting to see how our anti-CM contingent would react if you replaced the word "bicycle" with "gun" in this legislation. I think it would be funny, in an ironic sort of way. "If we register our guns it's the first step towards a totalitarian state." Well what do you call not having the right to civil disobedience, genius?

It would be interesting to see how our anti-CM contingent would react if you replaced the word "bicycle" with "gun" in this legislation. I think it would be funny, in an ironic sort of way. "If we register our guns it's the first step towards a totalitarian state." Well what do you call not having the right to civil disobedience, genius?

Well, when guns kill as many people as bicycles do, we'll...wait...I mean...bike don't kill people, wait...oh, bother.

Anyway let's stay on topic.

I for one think that the bill would discourage people from casually cycling.

Aside from the construction of the greenway, NYC IMO has done very little to encourage cycling or make it more safe for people.

As I was saying earlier, the City even moved planters IN TO a bike lane in the heart of midtown! Thusly you are forced out of the bike lane and in to traffic. Lovely.

Many people are too initimidated by traffic to ride in the city in the first place and adding one more hurdle to the scenario would likely make a lot of people say "Forget it".

As for crime, how can anyone possible compare vehicular crimes or death to anything involving a bike? When was the last time there was a bike drive by in NYC? Or anywhere? If someone was drunk riding their bike, A) They might just do fine B) They might just fall over. It's not likely they would plow through an intersection, jump a curb and kill a family.

At best in your scenario, the city would be flooded with phone calls from people complaining about over enthusiastic bike messengers.

Cyclists have a bad enough rep because of the media's portrayals of recent events at Critical Mass rides without calling in Johnny Law.

As far as being "paranoid", the reason why it's being discussed is largely because a a group called Transportation Alternatives sent out an email about it alerting people who would and should be concerned about it. It's perfectly within reason for someone to be concerned about a bill that could be passed in to law affecting their lifestyle.

It would be interesting to see how our anti-CM contingent would react if you replaced the word "bicycle" with "gun" in this legislation. I think it would be funny, in an ironic sort of way. "If we register our guns it's the first step towards a totalitarian state." Well what do you call not having the right to civil disobedience, genius?

How about you replace "cycling" with "jogging" and tell me it's not stupid.

On the second point, I know you are conservative, as I have read many other of your posts. As a conservative, you know the role of incentives and importance of risk and reward. Extreme elements of CM are ruining it for everyone else. The 'organization' should either police itself, or it will be policed.

As a conservative I also understand that government roles should be limited, if any, and overregulation is a bad thing. This smacks of both, and is completely the opposite of everything I stand for.

And Laika, you know what? You're slowly becoming one of the coolest people I've met on here. Glad to have made your acquaintance.

As far as being "paranoid", the reason why it's being discussed is largely because a a group called Transportation Alternatives sent out an email about it alerting people who would and should be concerned about it. It's perfectly within reason for someone to be concerned about a bill that could be passed in to law affecting their lifestyle.

Bingo.

I'm gonna give Councilmember Provenzano a call tomorrow. Maybe I'll record it for s***s and giggles. I'll also be at the TA volunteer effort tomorrow night (it's a mailing party for the magazine). I can't wait to see what some of the other members have to say about this.

(1) So while you can certainly make a case that riders at the September CM were chickensh*ts, ....

(2) CM is not an organization, and CM has no members. CM is an event. Individual cyclists participate in the event.


Excuse my cut and paste to save screen space; you made good points in some places. But...

(1) Yes, that is my only point. I do not doubt however, that CM rides are increasingly magnets for chickensh*ts of this sort.

(2) Correct. And in order to improve identifying the individual cyclists who are responsible for the behavior at CM that so many cyclists and non cyclists abhor, somethin akin to a license plate is a great idea. Again, I ask..has registration of bicycles in some European countries discouraged use in any way?


roughstuff

Glad to have made your acquaintance.

Mutual, you filthy conservative.

(1) As a conservative I also understand that government roles should be limited, if any,

(2)and overregulation is a bad thing. This smacks of both, and is completely the opposite of everything I stand for.



(1) registration will be a key to LIMITING governments role by focusing attention on those responsible for the actions which so many cyclists find abhorrent about CM 'events.' Compare that with the 'dragnet' approach which is necessary right now because miscreants cannot be indentified.

(2) Again a good point as a conservative; but behavior on the roadways has always been subject to a host of regulations on velocity, seat belts, signals, etc. Again...how do identify violators of these rules? By using license plates.

roughstuff

It would be interesting to see how our anti-CM contingent would react if you replaced the word "bicycle" with "gun" in this legislation. I think it would be funny, in an ironic sort of way. "If we register our guns it's the first step towards a totalitarian state." Well what do you call not having the right to civil disobedience, genius?


Hmmm..given my republican party's obsession with constitutional amendments these days, I propose this one Kristofperson! :)

"A mobile and well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and ride bicycles shall not be infringed."

Laugh not! The swiss army has a bicycle division!

roughstuff

Roughstuff: Your "Europe" example belies a very simple difference between the US and Europe. In Europe, cycling is a very different thing. It's encouraged. It's even cosmopolitan. In some major cities, there are more bikes than cars. In Amsterdam, you can grab a bike off the street (a public one) and ride it non stop and then leave it for the next person to pick up.

They line up for local crits after the Tour just for a chance to see their heroes.

In the US, the general population is apathetic / indifferent toward cycling, and in some cities, like NYC, they're downright antagonistic. Creating a registration system in Europe wouldn't change the cultural influences toward cycling. Doing so in the United States, where the support for the sport / activity is already weak would utterly destroy it.

Something tells me that thought hasn't escaped Councilmember Provenzano.

Hmmm..given my republican party's obsession with constitutional amendments these days, I propose this one Kristofperson! :)

"A mobile and well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and ride bicycles shall not be infringed."

Laugh not! The swiss army has a bicycle division!

roughstuff
:D I'm all for it, baby! "This Bike Is A pipe Bomb" Indeed.

Anyway let's stay on topic...

At best in your scenario, the city would be flooded with phone calls from people complaining about over enthusiastic bike messengers...



Amen bro! Best reason for the law I have heard yet.

roughstuff

Excuse my cut and paste to save screen space; you made good points in some places. But...

(1) Yes, that is my only point. I do not doubt however, that CM rides are increasingly magnets for chickensh*ts of this sort.

The distinction between the August and September rides is important to me, as a NYC CM rider. Thank you for recognizing it.

I also urge you to read about this stuff, if you have the time. Why is it, for example, that there were no arrests EVER at CM nyc before august 04, and have been arrests every month since? do you think that, just maybe, the mayor was embarassed by all of the protests during that week during an event he brought here against the will of most NYers and is lashing out at the only semi-permanent group that he can hit? If CM is such a probelm and threat to public safety, why was it left nearly completely alone by the extremely activist Giuliani administration, which stuck its regulatory fingers in nearly every civic pie it could? The "mayor of america" went after porn shops, strippers, st. patrick's day drunks, squeegee guys, art shows, beggars and imposed severe restrictions on midtown pedestrians and yet somehow never got around to attacking CM during his years in office. Why is it that all of a sudden the city sees CM as being two degrees of separation from Osama? My personal opinion is that this is a vendetta by Bloomberg and his equally thin-skinned minion, Kelly, who's had a chip on his shoulder since being booted in favor of Bratton, who got most of the credit for the "broken windows"/crimestat policing that has made NY safer recently.


(2) Correct. And in order to improve identifying the individual cyclists who are responsible for the behavior at CM that so many cyclists and non cyclists abhor, somethin akin to a license plate is a great idea. Again, I ask..has registration of bicycles in some European countries discouraged use in any way?
roughstuff

We will have to agree to disagree about this, I'm afraid. I have always found puzzling the contrast between the true conservative positions on gov't interference and oversight and the Republican conservative willingness to encourage greater gov't oversight and bureaucracy in the name of "law and order." And this bill should be repellent to small gov't./"stave the beast" conservatives as well... you do of course realize that this law, if enacted, will spawn a whole Department, Bureau or Administration of Bicycle Regulation, right? I'm sure the revenues raised by the sale of licenses would barely even cover the cost of having the tags stamped and printed , never minds the salaries of all of the surly clerks that will be needed to distribute, assign and administer the tags. Plus we'll probably need one or two new judges to adjucate cases of tag violation, and clerks for the judges, and court officers to supervise the proceedings...
This bill is a dog, a non-starter and a waste of time. NYC is the most heavily taxed-and-regulated city in the union and it is somewhat shocking that a self-professed conservative would approve a measure that would increase both the tax and oversight burdens on NYCers.

(1) registration will be a key to LIMITING governments role by focusing attention on those responsible for the actions which so many cyclists find abhorrent about CM 'events.' Compare that with the 'dragnet' approach which is necessary right now because miscreants cannot be indentified.
roughstuff

Enforcement at CM rides will still require massive police presence. Unless you imagine that the temporarily inconvenienced motorists will be taking down and reporting tag numbers in the aftermath, and then showing up to testify against all the cyclists they report...

a nation of snitches.

Ain't gonna happen. It probably won't pass in the first place, and if it does it will be a total nightmare for the state to fund, implement and administer. And it will work just about as well as the Rockefeller drug laws. And you can tell them that when you go to Albany to lobby against it.

BTW - Roughstuff has it totally wrong, this has absolutely nothing to do with CM, it's the club road riders on the rural roads that has the lege's panties all up in a twist. :D ;)

What a bunch of BS!!

So how big will these "plates" be? Will they even be big enough for people to even notice? Someone will have to be pretty close just to ID the bicycle plate in question (What about all the seniors... they won't even see them). I understand both points... Is the government really ready to accept all the overhead of licensing cyclists? I lean towards them making it more of a hassel thus keeping more people off the streets. I also agree that the 15 days in jail thing is out of line. What about equality since car drivers don't get 15 days in jail. They must think that all cyclists are homeless / jobless or something.

my .02

kb0tnv :)

Good point kb0tnv. If police want to see these tags to identify fleeing cyclists (bullsheetrock if ever I've heard it) they'd have to be pretty damned large.

I was just thinking last night before I went to bed that if this law passes, the days of just grabbing a bike and going for a ride are now over if this passes. I wouldn't give my registered bike to anyone to ride knowing that if they f'ed up, the fuzz would come down on me for it being the owner of the bike.

This is such a painfully stupid idea that I can't even believe it is being considered. But then again, like the comment I made in the "Cyclist Attacked in Campbell" thread, cyclists are easy targets. In this case, it's politically instead of physically, but in the end, we still get the shaft.

I really think that we should have a critical "car" mass ride. Every cm'er should show up at Union Square North in a damned car; the bigger the better. Follow the traffic laws, don't run reds, etc. Just drive from there to Central Park.

Wanna bet that for all their worrying about traffic, the police don't make one arrest and not one complaint exists? It'll just be considered "traffic."

Now let us see here. A rallying cry of CM has always been 'We ARE traffic'. Then there is the whole concept of 'Same Road - Same Law', not to even mention 'Share the Road'.

Now a furror over bike registration? What, a level playing field isn't good enough?

NYC may not even be able to handle the admin problems of registering that many bikes. Many cities here have manditory bike registration laws that are no longer enforced, even for new bike sales.

The posts regarding "right to bear bikes" do offer some fertile ground for useful discussion. A large proportion of gun owners are worried about their rights and belong to the NRA, or one of the more strident organizations. The NRA www.nra.org gets a lot more credence, even from opponents, than the loudmouthed organizations, because it has multiple program areas, including advocacy, proficiency, consumer information, and, IMO most importantly, safety. I joined League of American Bicyclists http://www.bikeleague.org/ for that reason.

Other organizations, facing similar threats to their memebers interests include aviation organizations, including the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association www.aopa.org , and the Experimental Aircraft Association www.eaa.org . They also have broad programs which include proficiency and safety along with their advocacy, and they are very effective.

I think CM is counterproductive, and suggest what I think are more effective alternatives.

Now let us see here. A rallying cry of CM has always been 'We ARE traffic'. Then there is the whole concept of 'Same Road - Same Law', not to even mention 'Share the Road'.

Now a furror over bike registration? What, a level playing field isn't good enough?


Bingo !! Was thinking the same thing when I read the first post.

Traffic means we have a right to the road, not we need to be treated like cars. The law says bicycles have a right to the street, yet it's routinely taken away. Bike lanes are not enforced in New York City at all. Greenways, in most cases, have sections that you can't even ride on a road bike. And so on, and so on, and so on.

If we were treated like cars, what happened in Campbell would never ever happen, and the police would've held the two *****es in the car until they talked.

Everyone is stuck on Critical Mass. FOG, this isn't a law about Critical Mass or a law that only affects people who do the ride. This is a law to require registration of every single bike a person over 16 rides. That means every kid in the suburbs who never has any intention of being an activist of any kind still has to register his bike. Why?

SO that maybe, one day, if he decides he wants to do a CM ride, and possibly wants to run from his bike, he can be identified.

Before we start shouting Bingo at "level playing field" comments, some proof that it actually would somehow level the playing field would be nice.

What's next? Bicycle Licenses?

It sounds like this councilmember has been thinking about those red light cameras and figures the city could make a small bundle off of cyclists running red lights. Or it will be one more charge police can add when they're in the mood to confiscate bikes - whether the cyclist is actually riding or not?

The City already has plenty of bicycling laws that are rarely enforced. Is this one more for the list?

Obviously New York City isn't a nation unto itself. What about commuters or visitors who may not be aware of such laws? If Hoboken decided to enact their own bicycle registration law will Hoboken honor NYC registration and NYC honors theirs? Might we eventually have to register our bikes in every town and city we plan on cycling through? The idea of requiring everyone who wants to ride in the NYC Century or the MS Bike tour to register their bike with the City beforehand seems mildly absurd.

Stacy

Again, I ask..has registration of bicycles in some European countries discouraged use in any way?

Umm, where in Europe is bike registration mandatory? I know Greece used to have a system of sorts, but that has now been defunct for quite some time.

--J

So how big will these "plates" be? Will they even be big enough for people to even notice? Someone will have to be pretty close just to ID the bicycle plate in question (What about all the seniors... they won't even see them).

Psst... conspiracy theory. You realise of course this is just another scheme by the bicycle component manufacturers to get you to buy all new saddles and sell you carbon-fibre bicycle license plate holders don't you? :D

Beat the rush... get your plates now!

http://www.collectorsconnection.com/license.htm

http://www.collectorsconnection.org/images6/18a998.jpg

Ironic, isn't it? ;)

BTW, many cities had or still have laws pertaining to licensing and registration of bicycles. For example...


Section 473.11 Licensing Bicycles; Fee and Transfer

(a) No person who resides within the City or uses a bicycle in connection with employment within the City shall operate a bicycle on any street or other public property within the City unless the bicycle has been licensed and a license plate is attached as provided in this section.

Now let us see here. A rallying cry of CM has always been 'We ARE traffic'. Then there is the whole concept of 'Same Road - Same Law', not to even mention 'Share the Road'.

Now a furror over bike registration? What, a level playing field isn't good enough?

NYC may not even be able to handle the admin problems of registering that many bikes. Many cities here have manditory bike registration laws that are no longer enforced, even for new bike sales.

No, Da Tinker. The rallying cry of CM is: "We are traffic when we wanna be, idiots when we wanna be, anonymous when we wanna be, anti-regulation for bikes, pro-regulation for cars, in favor of roadways if they are used by bicycles, opposed to new roadways if they are used by cars."

As far as 'share the road' goes, you need only look at discussion boards about bicycle paths to see how many cyclists whine and complain about rollerbladers, walkers, joggers, etc. "Let's you and him share" is probably closer to their motto.

My one and only point has always been that registration makes it easy to identify folks who abuse the privilege--NOT THE RIGHT--of using public property for transport.

I have to agree it might not be very workable, which for many local governments is reason enough not to adopt it..

roughstuff

Now let us see here. A rallying cry of CM has always been 'We ARE traffic'. Then there is the whole concept of 'Same Road - Same Law', not to even mention 'Share the Road'.

Now a furror over bike registration? What, a level playing field isn't good enough?

NYC may not even be able to handle the admin problems of registering that many bikes. Many cities here have manditory bike registration laws that are no longer enforced, even for new bike sales.

Yes.. but I HATE CM...

Yes, you heard that correctly. Registration for bikes.

Face facts people, they want us off the streets.



By the same logic, does mandatory registration and plates for cars mean that they want them off the streets, too?

As an all-weather, year-round bike commuter, I have no problem with bike registration and plates.

Paul

Depends. Are they confiscating cars and putting their owners in jail?

Not that I know of.

Of course, I can't tell you how many pedestrians have been killed in intersections by bicyclists running red lights, or how many times a five bike pileup has killed seven people, or how many times a bike careened into a building and killed everyone standing in front of it.

Weighing the proportional danger, I can definitely understand the need to collar those dangerous bikes.

...license plate that enables you to be identified...

Why do I need identification? I know who I am.

Why do I need identification? I know who I am.

...

I am not a number!

No, Da Tinker. The rallying cry of CM is: "We are traffic when we wanna be, idiots when we wanna be, anonymous when we wanna be, anti-regulation for bikes, pro-regulation for cars, in favor of roadways if they are used by bicycles, opposed to new roadways if they are used by cars."

You know, I still am not enamored with CM, but you seem to be obsessed with it as if CM is the only time a rider rides a bike in this city. Think maybe you can narrow the discussion down to the other 29 days a month and the other 115,000 cyclists who ride in this city?


As far as 'share the road' goes, you need only look at discussion boards about bicycle paths to see how many cyclists whine and complain about rollerbladers, walkers, joggers, etc. "Let's you and him share" is probably closer to their motto.

No, people on this board are universally pissed at people who use the greenways for meeting spots. Walkers, Joggers, and Rollerbladers who live by the rules of the road never get a complaint beyond people saying the paths are too crowded.


My one and only point has always been that registration makes it easy to identify folks who abuse the privilege--NOT THE RIGHT--of using public property for transport.

Actually NYC has codified the right of bicycles to be on the road, and the right of bikes to take a lane just like any other vehicle in traffic. It is a right. It is not a privilege to use public roads. I pay for them just like you do, and if I want to ride them on my bike or in my car, that's my right. Registration will only make it a hassle for people to ride, and that's it.


I have to agree it might not be very workable, which for many local governments is reason enough not to adopt it..

roughstuff

Not the point. You fight it before it happens, not ignore it because, well hey, it can't really happen, can it?

Last night five cop cars pulled a guy in front of my house, arrested him and towed his car. He had been racing through the streets like an idiot, running stop signs, etc.

We're talking about registration violations, not reckless driving.

You know, I still am not enamored with CM, but you seem to be obsessed with it as if CM is the only time a rider rides a bike in this city. Think maybe you can narrow the discussion down to the other 29 days a month and the other 115,000 cyclists who ride in this city?



I have to agree that I don't see what this has to do with CM unless CM wants to use it as their new rallying cry. Then we can consider whether CM's involvement would help or hinder cyclists.

On the other hand, bicycle reegistration will effect everyon ewho riides in the city, whether it's daily or just occasionally, and will have a major impact on every major cycling event hosted in the city.

Stacy

Blah. I think that some people on this board are just arguing for arguing's sake.

I also think that your perspective depends on where you ride. If you're riding out on peaceful country roads somewhere, then you are not going to understand someone's perspective who is riding in a city where cyclists have no enforced rights and are continually aggravated.

Laika had some very good points about recent targetting of NYC's CM rides as far as those criticisms go.

Laika had some very good points about recent targetting of NYC's CM rides as far as those criticisms go.

Yeah, if only people would read them :)

By the same logic, does mandatory registration and plates for cars mean that they want them off the streets, too?

As an all-weather, year-round bike commuter, I have no problem with bike registration and plates.

Paul

If those plates are actually big enough to see, then how much drag are they going to produce? Where will it be mounted on the bike? Behind the seat blocks my rear flasher if I want to ride at night.
If licensing those that use public areas for getting around is okay, then when will we have to wear identifying numbers on the backs of our clothes, since the sidewalk is also public?

I also urge you to read about this stuff, if you have the time. Why is it, for example, that there were no arrests EVER at CM nyc before august 04, and have been arrests every month since?
Part of the reason is CM's stubborn refusal to define itself and the fear of the anti-globalization nut cases. CMer's have repeatedly bragged about how different riders join for different reasons. Given CM's refusal to police itself, the real police should have been concerned about the same kind of riots caused by anti-globalists in other cities.

Until CM is willing to define itself and kick out people with other goals, it will continue to have problems.

Now, back to the topic of the thread--the real problem with bicycle registration is that different cities have different rules. In Ohio, many cities require bikes to display their registration. Fortunately, the rules aren't enforced, but a touring cyclist (or even one that wanted to ride across several suburbs) would need to display tags from each locality. This is a recipe for arbitrary enforcement.