Fifty Plus (50+) - Our hardest working club member struck by an idot driver.

Just learned that a woman from our club who is, as far as I can see, one of the most dedicated club members, was struck down by an imbecile making an illegal left turn during a tour ride. Fractures to jaw and eye socket and injuries to both knees. Obviously a lot more needs to be done to educate and civilize the auto driving public.

Sorry to hear this, i will keep her in my prayers.Get well soon.

This is sad to hear, and I think you are correct about the driver education. When I was a very young driver, someone pointed out to me that is nearly impossible for a motorist to gauge the speed at which an oncoming motorcyclist is traveling. Since then, I have always waited for the motorcyclist to pass before I turn or pull out. I often get an appreciative nod from the motorcyclists as they pass. If motorists gave the same courtesy to bicyclists, there might be fewer of these stories. Best wishes to your friend.

So very sorry to hear that. Best wishes to her for a complete recovery.

Glad to see that you didn't insult the idiot drivers out there, they take enough heat and don't need to be included with the idot drivers. Tell your friend to get well and get riding.

Just learned that a woman from our club who is, as far as I can see, one of the most dedicated club members, was struck down by an imbecile making an illegal left turn during a tour ride. Fractures to jaw and eye socket and injuries to both knees. Obviously a lot more needs to be done to educate and civilize the auto driving public.

Your right, a drivers licence is way too easy to obtain and retain. You should require 100 hours of classroom training, 100 hours of simulator training, and 250 hours of driving with a licensed instructor and an additional 750 hours with a licensed driver. That gets you a level 1 licence, which means no driving on freeways, no driving at night, no passengers (unless a fully licensed driver is in the vehicle) and if you are pulled over with ANY alcohol/drugs, you need to wait 3 years and then start all over. After you log another 2000 hours, you can take the test for a level 2 licence, and after another 4000 hours, you can take the test for a full licence. The test for a full licence requires driving under difficult conditions in a simulator, which throws every possible danger at you, including the final hazard, 25mm of freezing rain with a 2cm layer of snow on top.

Every 5 years in order to renew your licence you should need to pass a written test, every 15 years you need to pass that simulator test for a full license as well. If you get caught drunk driving, kiss your licence goodbye, you need to wait 5 years and then can start all over at the beginning, with the classroom training.

Your right, a drivers licence is way too easy to obtain and retain. You should require 100 hours of classroom training, 100 hours of simulator training, and 250 hours of driving with a licensed instructor and an additional 750 hours with a licensed driver. That gets you a level 1 licence, which means no driving on freeways, no driving at night, no passengers (unless a fully licensed driver is in the vehicle) and if you are pulled over with ANY alcohol/drugs, you need to wait 3 years and then start all over. After you log another 2000 hours, you can take the test for a level 2 licence, and after another 4000 hours, you can take the test for a full licence. The test for a full licence requires driving under difficult conditions in a simulator, which throws every possible danger at you, including the final hazard, 25mm of freezing rain with a 2cm layer of snow on top.

Every 5 years in order to renew your licence you should need to pass a written test, every 15 years you need to pass that simulator test for a full license as well. If you get caught drunk driving, kiss your licence goodbye, you need to wait 5 years and then can start all over at the beginning, with the classroom training.

Or you can invest half that time to become a commercial pilot and take a taxi to work.

While I agree it's far too easy to obtain a license it's the lack of penalties that costs so dearly. They feel free to go out and drive as they always have. There are mistakes and that is the Judge's job to ascertain. If you injure another from negligence or plain stupidity the fines should be staggering. No getting off easy. The gub'ment needs cash and will take it one way or another lets have it go for the common good.

And here's to you're associate heeling well and fast.

That absolutely sucks. I must say that this is the same type of stupidity that motorcyclists face every day as well. Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Just one more act of stupidity that continues to piss me off.

Best wishes to her.

Best wishes to her. My one and only close encounter of the wrong kind w/ a motor vehicle was a similar left-cross, in which a motorist turned into her driveway, crossing my path in the process. Her insurance company offered a quick and low settlement, which I negotiated up another 20-25% before signing. I could have used an attorney, but probably would have netted the same amount after paying his cut of the take.

Glad to see that you didn't insult the idiot drivers out there, they take enogh heat and don't need to be included with the idot drivers. Tell your friend to get well and get riding.
Spelling is easy for me. Typing when I am really angry is not.

Here is one of the best things I've learned from BF: The human brain is hardwired to see faces (that part I knew). That's why people see Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich. When a car is approaching from the front or side and might be on an intersecting path, turn your head to look directly at the driver. Even if the driver isn't looking for you (because he's looking for cars, not bikes), his brain might pick up on your face and he'll notice you. Sure won't prevent every crash, but it might prevent a few.

Here is one of the best things I've learned from BF: The human brain is hardwired to see faces (that part I knew). That's why people see Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich. When a car is approaching from the front or side and might be on an intersecting path, turn your head to look directly at the driver. Even if the driver isn't looking for you (because he's looking for cars, not bikes), his brain might pick up on your face and he'll notice you. Sure won't prevent every crash, but it might prevent a few.

I teach drivers ed and the most common reasons for cyclist/motorist collisions all stem from the fact that the motorist just does not see the bicyclist, so you have a valid point. As a cyclist, we should always be on the defensive when the closing probability between bike and vehicle increases. Eye contact is a way to be sure the motorist sees you when cycling.

I teach drivers ed and the most common reasons for cyclist/motorist collisions all stem from the fact that the motorist just does not see the bicyclist, so you have a valid point. As a cyclist, we should always be on the defensive when the closing probability between bike and vehicle increases. Eye contact is a way to be sure the motorist sees you when cycling.

That is absolutely incorrect and I sure hope that's not what you are teaching new drivers.

The hospital ERs are *full* of motorcyclists repeating the same story: "S/he looked me straight in the eye and pulled out in front of me." Eye contact != "seeing".

KeS

When riding/driving anything you must believe they are trying to kill you. If they pull in front of trains every day what makes you think they'll see you? Only reason I've made it so long riding motorcycles or bicycles.

Sculptor7, A speedy and full recovery wish for your friend.

I ride my bicycles and motorcycles on the street and I don't think people are out to harm me on purpose, they're just not enough drivers that are good enough to notice me.

Brad

Wishing her a speedy recovery.

Drivers don't yield to approaching Fire and Police vehicles with all their warning equipment activated, let alone someone on a bicycle. :(

I too wish her a speedy recovery! I know full well what she is going through, and I am sorry that her injuries are so severe. As one "wounded warrior" to another - get well quickly!

That's really very unfortunate. I hope her recovery is full and quick.

That is absolutely incorrect and I sure hope that's not what you are teaching new drivers.

The hospital ERs are *full* of motorcyclists repeating the same story: "S/he looked me straight in the eye and pulled out in front of me." Eye contact != "seeing".

KeS

What are you teaching them?

Is there an article to go along with this thread? Before I hate on idot drivers, I like to have some facts. ;)

What are you teaching them?

I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.

I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.

So what do you suggest I teach them to handle the situation?

I'm *not* teaching them things that will get them killed. "First do no harm."

Your implication is that because you're a driving instructor and I'm not, that I'm not in a position to criticize what is being instructed. I reject that - the fallacy of "eye contact" is well known and established. If that's what you're teaching new drivers, you're setting them (and me) up for catastrophic failure.

I don't have to be a driving instructor to have a valid opinion and vested interest in the topic. Although, I do a significant amount of motorcycle training and mentoring. And I'm not really interested in getting more PMs from you saying I'm being rude.


So what do you suggest I teach them to handle the situation?

It seems to me this argument is being painted with very broad strokes. I would suggest taking a deep breath and not taking things so personally. Attacks rarely contribute much of a constructive nature.

Additionally, it sure hijacks a thread that was probably not posted for the purpose of heading in this direction.

I'd think there would be curricula around this, but what we teach riders is that you can't rely on looking at the driver or their actions, you need to base your response on what the actual vehicle is doing. The primary key is the top or trailing edge of the front tire, which tells you movement from a stop, and steering input/direction change.

KeS

Sounds like a really nasty injury: 2 knees, a jaw and an eye socket.

The situation is also a classic "left hook" and those are rather hard to guard against. Seeing as one does not expect a motorist to just turn without warning and run one down. Sometimes one is just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I hope she heals up quickly and also gets over the emotional trauma. Sometimes, dealing emotionally with a bad accident is every bit as much challenging as the physical parts of it.

It seems to me this argument is being painted with very broad strokes. I would suggest taking a deep breath and not taking things so personally. Attacks rarely contribute much of a constructive nature.

Additionally, it sure hijacks a thread that was probably not posted for the purpose of heading in this direction.

Your right... And Sculptor7 I am truly sorry about your friends accident. I pray for a speedy recovery for her.

This might help prevent this from happening again:

COMMON MOTORIST MISTAKES THAT BICYCLE RIDERS SHOULD
KNOW

1. The most common motorist caused car-bicycle collision is a motorist
turning left in the face of oncoming bicycle traffic. Oncoming bicycle traffic is
often overlooked or its speed misjudged.
2. The second most common motorist caused car-bicycle collision is a
motorist turning right across the path of the bicycle traffic. The motorist
should slow down and merge with the bicycle traffic for a safe right-hand
turn.
3. The third most common motorist caused car-bicycle collision is a
motorist pulling away from a stop sign, failing to yield right-of-way to bicycle
cross traffic. At intersections, right-of-way rules apply equally to motor vehicles
and bicycles.

In response to the "eye contact" issue. It simply doesn't work and in fact some drivers take it as a challenge. You must take responsibility for your own safety and not depend on others adherence to law or common sense.

Believe they will do the wrong thing and be prepared for evasive action. Practice braking,swerving and other proactive avoidance techniques. For instance when you see an automobile at the end of a driveway brake lightly to alert those following (bicycles should have brake lights) and you're preparing to stop hard or slow to swerve when they pull in front of you. This is good practice no matter what the method of transport used. If you depend on someone else to do the right thing the battle is lost.

Now there are always exceptions and the OP's friend may well be one we just don't have the facts. Sometimes it's just going to go bad no matter what. That doesn't mean preparing for disaster is bad practice.

I hate to hear about stories like this!!!! Riding road is getting harder and harder for me each day!

My prayers for her healing up quickly and completely!

. . . struck down by an imbecile making an illegal left turn during a tour ride . . .Obviously a lot more needs to be done to educate and civilize the auto driving public . . .

No argument from me.

We cyclists can also be reminded to stay even more alert than usual when riding with a group. I find it easy to be lulled into a false sense of security, giving too much attention to my fellow riders and not enough vehicular traffic and other potential issues. The rider in question may have been on full alert but I certainly might not have been.

In response to the "eye contact" issue. It simply doesn't work and in fact some drivers take it as a challenge.

It's like anything else. Sometime it works, and sometimes it doesn't. Probably works more than it doesn't, but it only takes once. We need to use all the tools we have to stay safe. Using your voice can help get their attention as well, and it can be done nicely, with a loud "Hello!" or "Hey!" before you cross a stopped car. That and eye contact can 'connect' you to the driver.

So sorry to hear about the accident, Sculptor7. I hope she does okay.

In response to the "eye contact" issue. It simply doesn't work and in fact some drivers take it as a challenge. You must take responsibility for your own safety and not depend on others adherence to law or common sense.

I think the "eye contact" thing is wrongly done. You can control your own actions, but not those of another person. When I suggested looking directly at the driver of a car that might be intersecting your path, I specifically did not use the phrase "eye contact" because you can never know if driver actually sees you, and as someone pointed out, drivers all the time say they looked right at the cyclist/motorcyclist and did not see them. My only point is that using the brain's innate ability to see faces, called "pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia#Explanations)," can sometimes work to your advantage and make you more safe. It's just one more tool in the toolbox to try to stay safe out there.

I think the "eye contact" thing is wrongly done. You can control your own actions, but not those of another person. When I suggested looking directly at the driver of a car that might be intersecting your path, I specifically did not use the phrase "eye contact" because you can never know if driver actually sees you, and as someone pointed out, drivers all the time say they looked right at the cyclist/motorcyclist and did not see them. My only point is that using the brain's innate ability to see faces, called "pareidolia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia#Explanations)," can sometimes work to your advantage and make you more safe. It's just one more tool in the toolbox to try to stay safe out there.

I agree, and I was wrong for saying "eye contact". What I meant was try to get the attention of the driver by communicating with him/her if the closing probability begins to increase. This greater communication can be done in a variety of ways, aka look'em in the eyes, yell at them Ayyeeeeee!!! wave your arms but best of all take what ever evasive action necessary to avoid the collision. As soon as you see the closing probability increase aka; front tire rolling do whatever is necessary to avoid, avoid, avoid, the collision. Most of the time it is safer to give the right of way rather than take it. When I'm on my bike at an intersection, I give it to the motorist unless I'm am positively sure he has seen me and has waved me on or given an assuring nod.

Motor vehicle or bicycle I always attempt to be in a position where I can see the other driver's eyes. When I drive behind an 18-wheeler I understand the semi's driver can't see me unless I can see his eyes. Likewise when riding I understand that a driver can't see me if I can't see the driver's eyes. Doesn't mean I'm making "eye contact". It means we can see each other if we wish with no obstacles in the way.

Maybe I'm spoiled during my few years of cycling. But, I get a lot less challenges on my bike than I do in my motor vehicle. Occasionally, I have to do something to wake up an inattentive driver. But, overall drivers seem to be aware and courteous. Sure, they make mistakes. Just like I do. After all we are human. So, I drive and ride defensively. On the other hand I routinely see local cyclists doing things that are both illegal and reckless and narrowly escape injury or death. Message? Think cooperation not competition.

People pull in front of trains every day. They see nothing.

Here is one of the best things I've learned from BF: The human brain is hardwired to see faces (that part I knew). That's why people see Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich. When a car is approaching from the front or side and might be on an intersecting path, turn your head to look directly at the driver. Even if the driver isn't looking for you (because he's looking for cars, not bikes), his brain might pick up on your face and he'll notice you. Sure won't prevent every crash, but it might prevent a few.

A good point... In the LAB traffic skills classes we emphasize making eye contact with other drivers in order to establish that human connection.

One problem is that at speeds above 20 mph, we start to lose that ability to make or maintain eye contact... so what works for you at many intersections where both parties have slowed down considerably may not work out on the open road or on some arterial streets where higher speeds are the norm.

So sorry to hear about your friend's collision.
Please pass along my best wishes for a speedy recovery -- physically and emotionally. Those 'ghosts' can really surprise you.

One problem is that at speeds above 20 mph, we start to lose that ability to make or maintain eye contact.

I solve that problem by being unable to go over 20, except downhill.

I sure hope your friend has a quick and full recovery without any emotional scars.

I believe our only hope in educating the driving population on respecting bicycles on the road is to make these imbecile drivers bicycle riders as well. Spread the joy of riding a bike.

A good point... In the LAB traffic skills classes we emphasize making eye contact with other drivers in order to establish that human connection.

One problem is that at speeds above 20 mph, we start to lose that ability to make or maintain eye contact... so what works for you at many intersections where both parties have slowed down considerably may not work out on the open road or on some arterial streets where higher speeds are the norm.

Okay, how about a 20MPH speed limit, at least within towns and built up areas. I once took a defensive driving course, and the first thing the instructor said was that, given the opportunity for the other guy to do something stupid, they will. That applies equally when your on a bike, assume that the driver in a car can not see you, and you will be safer.

The latest news I hear is that she is recovering and is in good spirits despite these pretty serious injuries. Thank you all for you concern.

Speaking of careless driving last night my wife and I were coming home, stopped in a line of traffic and just about to go when a young man on a mountain bike appeared from between cars and crossed right in front of us. Luckily my reflexes were fast enough to slam on the brakes. That is not conducive to good relationships between cars and bikes.