Winter Cycling - Merino Wool

Any must-haves for shirts as base layers? $35-$50 range is where I'm aiming.

Also something for the legs might be in order. I'm sure I can find some socks as well; though keeping my core warm is paramount.

No blends. Pure Merino wool.

Search. Plenty of threads.

long sleeve - try minus 33. Cheaper than smart wool but just as effective in my opinion - I think I paid 40 or 45
long johns - I've got smart wool but they run around 75 bucks
socks - smart wool - get em at REI when they are on sale - 4 pair for 3 from time to time

best stuff you can get. warm and absolutely no stink (that may be the best part)

Here's a thread on merino wool T-shirts I started a few months back, and like scroca said, there are quite a few more in the Forums:

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/745444-Merino-Wool-T-shirts-anyone

Turns out, if you are picky about how the stuff has been made (mulesing, country of manufacture), you have less options and the price will be higher. I ordered two shirts from ChocolateFish mentioned in that thread. After using those for a couple of weeks, I tossed all my old synthetic "technical" shirts in the recycling bin. Their stuff is over your price range, but if you're not particular about production details, you'll find cheaper pure merino alternatives from other manufacturers.

--J

long sleeve - try minus 33. Cheaper than smart wool but just as effective in my opinion - I think I paid 40 or 45
long johns - I've got smart wool but they run around 75 bucks
socks - smart wool - get em at REI when they are on sale - 4 pair for 3 from time to time

best stuff you can get. warm and absolutely no stink (that may be the best part)

Minus33 gets constant praise except for being too big/loose but eh. I'm not looking for any blends, just 100% Merino ... isn't SmartWool a blend?

It's getting to the point where I'm looking outside at rain and going, no, it's too cold for rain. August I went out in rain. When it's sunny I wear a wind jacket now because it's too cold. It's time to get rid of the Zensah base layers and put on something warm. 22C is too cold for biking unprotected.

I went to a local thrift store and came away with 8 merino sweaters for about $7 each. I found one that was size small that fits like a shirt, it had the original $85 price tag on it and priced at $15. I found another non-merino one that was like ragg wool that should make a great mid-layer.

Last winter went I checked out the store they didn't have any wool. This would be a great time to check out the stores before people go looking for the stuff. The majority of the sweaters will be acrylic or cotton, so you'll have to spend some time label hunting. If you don't see the material label at the neck, its usually inside the waist near the bottom.


22C is too cold for biking unprotected.
Is that a typo ;) . I was riding this morning at 13C in a short sleeve jersey and was quite comfortable.

MEC has quite a bit of merino wool clothing. I picked up two new tops there recently.

I went to a local thrift store and came away with 8 merino sweaters for about $7 each. I found one that was size small that fits like a shirt, it had the original $85 price tag on it and priced at $15. I found another non-merino one that was like ragg wool that should make a great mid-layer.

Last winter went I checked out the store they didn't have any wool. This would be a great time to check out the stores before people go looking for the stuff. The majority of the sweaters will be acrylic or cotton, so you'll have to spend some time label hunting. If you don't see the material label at the neck, its usually inside the waist near the bottom.


+1

I have picked up a few merino wool clothing items from thrift shops too. Some have been nice enough to use as dress clothing for work.

Is that a typo ;) . I was riding this morning at 13C in a short sleeve jersey and was quite comfortable.

At 13C I will go about 2 blocks and then get off the bike because it's too cold to continue. The wind jacket helps, but I need some real protection.

At 13C I will go about 2 blocks and then get off the bike because it's too cold to continue. The wind jacket helps, but I need some real protection.

Really?? 13C = 55F; your earlier post said, "22C is too cold for biking unprotected." 22C = 72F.

72F is room temperature (or will be by the middle of next month). 55F is chilly right now because I'm so used to 90-95F, but it'll be long-sleeve jersey warm for me by December.

baselayer top:

http://www.backcountry.com/stoic-merino-crew-shirt-long-sleeve-mens

Basically, the Backcountry.com or Stoic merino long-sleeve shirts are the same, and theyre pretty hard to beat.

socks:

http://www.backcountry.com/teko-midweight-hiking-sock-mens

Any Teko socks are GOOD.

At 13C/55F (and DRY! - rain changes everything), you really need nothing but bike shorts on your legs. Try it.

Really?? 13C = 55F; your earlier post said, "22C is too cold for biking unprotected." 22C = 72F.

72F is room temperature (or will be by the middle of next month). 55F is chilly right now because I'm so used to 90-95F, but it'll be long-sleeve jersey warm for me by December.

+1

13C is sort of coolish, but definitely nowhere near "too cold to continue". A nice sunny 13C is actually relatively warm.

Maybe bluefoxicy is using the wrong temperature letter ... maybe he's thinking 13F = -10C. Minus 10C would require "some real protection".

And 22F = -5C. Minus 5C would be "too cold for biking unprotected".

I have a light rain jacket that I wear at 22F. It's pretty light weight so the start of the ride is cold, but it's not vented, so after a mile or so, you're pretty warm, maybe too warm. Great for cold and wet though with proper gloves and a helmet cover. But then I'm cheap and don't have merino base layers, just the normal synthetics. A couple of my long sleeve jerseys will take me down to that cold if I've got my balaclava and gloves on and it's dry. I really need to check out this thrift store advice. Do you mean like Goodwill stores where people drop off old clothes they don't wear or those stores where other stores try to get rid of merchandise that's out of season and can't sell? I only ask because people here always talk about their finds at thrift shops and whenever I hit the goodwill or salvation army it's always dingy and smelly stuff, not much in high quality. Maybe I'm just going the wrong times or not hunting carefully enough.

Thrift stores =

Op shops (here in Australia)
Vinnies (here in Australia)
Salvos (here in Australia)
Salvation Army (in Canada, aka Salvos in Australia)
Value Village (in Canada)

Value Village in Canada is a treasure trove of clothing all in a large, bright, department store-like setting. They are huge and have racks and racks and racks of clothing. That's where I have acquired most of my thrift shop finds for both cycling wear and everyday wear.

Salvation Army in Canada has tried to match Value Village but on a slightly smaller scale. Their stores aren't quite as huge as Value Village, but they are well laid out and clean.

Vinnies here in Australia is set up like a dress shop and their selection is a bit sparse ... but again, clean and occasionally you can find some good stuff there.

Salvos is often a little more crowded and it's a bit of a dig to get through everything.

And Op shops vary, but there's one in just about every town. We've got one in a tourist town near us where well-off tourists will drop off stuff they don't want. I've picked up some nice stuff there for $2 or $3. The one in our town has phases where there is just nothing of interest for several months, and then all of a sudden there will be several items. It just depends.

Really?? 13C = 55F; your earlier post said, "22C is too cold for biking unprotected." 22C = 72F.

I wear a light jacket below 80F degrees. It was 68F last year while I was still wearing a thick cotton jacket with a filled and lined denim jacket over top. I've had my vision shut down at -5C (because really, Farenheit is useless if discussing how cold it is relative to freezing or boiling water) on a 1/3 mile walk from my office to my car.

22C is cold enough that I need to wear a wind jacket. Not doing that. Today it's 29C out, which is warm. Not hot, just warm. Nice weather, pretty minimal for comfort.

I wear a light jacket below 80F degrees. It was 68F last year while I was still wearing a thick cotton jacket with a filled and lined denim jacket over top. I've had my vision shut down at -5C (because really, Farenheit is useless if discussing how cold it is relative to freezing or boiling water) on a 1/3 mile walk from my office to my car.

22C is cold enough that I need to wear a wind jacket. Not doing that. Today it's 29C out, which is warm. Not hot, just warm. Nice weather, pretty minimal for comfort.

Do you have some sort of medical condition that makes you feel cold when it is really quite warm out? Or is it that you just don't spend enough time outside to allow yourself to adapt to a wider variety of temperatures than what you might experience inside?


22C is room temperature ... in fact, it's slightly on the warmer side of room temperature, generally I prefer something around 20-21C. And for reference 68F is 20C.

29C is quite warm, but I don't consider the temperature hot until it goes over 30C.

And -5C is not cold enough to shut down a normal person's vision. -5C is just somewhat brisk.


I usually feel chilly when I ride, and I'm usually the one at group rides wearing an extra layer. When everyone else is there in short-sleeved jerseys and shorts, I might be in a long-sleeved jersey, windproof vest, and shorts with knee warmers ... with the intention of removing the vest and knee warmers if I warmed up.

However, if I were to wear a thick cotton jacket with a filled and lined denim jacket over top when cycling at 20C ... I'd melt. If I were to wear that walking or sitting around at 20C, I'd melt. You're probably sweating a lot in all of that and the wind blowing on all that sweat is probably making you feel colder than you would if you were to wear cycling-specific or exercise-specific clothing. Have you tried cycling in clothing that is not cotton?

Do you have some sort of medical condition that makes you feel cold when it is really quite warm out? Or is it that you just don't spend enough time outside to allow yourself to adapt to a wider variety of temperatures than what you might experience inside?


I got a sunburn this year. I think I got more sun in that day than I've had in my life. I'm never outside.



And -5C is not cold enough to shut down a normal person's vision. -5C is just somewhat brisk.


Are you ****ing kidding? Water freezes above that! I'm made of water!!!

Before I started biking, I'd measure my normal body temperature at 94.5F or thereabout. 95F is considered a medical emergency but I run pretty cool. Mind you I also used to shower in water so hot it overloaded my heat sensors ... felt like ice water, but steamed a lot and turned my skin red. Didn't cause the pain that cold water caused either. Dad didn't like the shower at 130F so he turned the water heater down to like 105F which ... I can't shower in now because it's too cold. I can't stay immersed in a shower, so the half of my body surface being exposed to air cools off too fast at 105F... something I didn't figure out until much later.

My current apartment can output 145F at the tap. I can't shower in it, it burns; but cold water is always readily available.

Be mindful I'm also the guy that went biking in 106F weather and hit 30mph coming down a hill. Had a coworker the same weekend wandering around in and out of an air conditioned building, spent too much time in front of said building, drank water ad vomitum, vomited water, then went to the emergency room and got saline via IV. Nuun FTW.

The cold is not for me.

I got a sunburn this year. I think I got more sun in that day than I've had in my life. I'm never outside.

That explains a lot. Go outside. Spend more time outside. Walk or cycle to work in the mornings and after work ... go for a walk outside at lunch. Spend time outside in the evenings and on weekends. You'll start to adjust to real temperatures rather than climate controlled temperatures.




Are you ****ing kidding? Water freezes above that! I'm made of water!!!

You're also made of salt and several other things. You won't freeze to death spending a few hours cycling or walking outside at -5C.



Be mindful I'm also the guy that went biking in 106F weather and hit 30mph coming down a hill.

So? 50 km/h isn't a particularly fast descending speed, but would help to cool you down a bit ... and I think many of us here cycle in both hot temperatures and cold temperatures. I've cycled in everything from about -40C to +48C. And I didn't freeze at -40C.

Before I started biking, I'd measure my normal body temperature at 94.5F or thereabout. 95F is considered a medical emergency but I run pretty cool. The cold is not for me.

Have you had your thyroid checked? Seriously, it sounds like you suffer from hypothyroidism, which wreaks a whole lot more havoc on your body than just making you cold all of the time. For real, see your doctor, the things you have described are not normal.

You're also made of salt and several other things. You won't freeze to death spending a few hours cycling or walking outside at -5C.



bluefoxicy spends his time in a theoretical world. He doesn't let reality interfere with his thought process.

Farenheit is useless if discussing how cold it is relative to freezing or boiling water

Good grief.

Good grief.

I didn't really even understand his comment. I don't care if you use metric or not, but stick to one scale.

Bluefoxicy: If you're wearing 2 jackets at 68F and any jacket at 80F there is something wrong with either you or your thermometer. Seriously, go to your doctor and tell him this, you need help.

My favourite piece of winter kit is my Canadian army (new surplus) virgin wool sweater... with a t-shirt underneath and a windproof / waterproof shell jacket I have found that I am warm and toasty at virtually any winter temperature.

You're also made of salt and several other things. You won't freeze to death spending a few hours cycling or walking outside at -5C.


Sounds like the people in the Training & Nutrition forum that know about zero about biochemistry.

95F is considered borderline hypothermia because if your core temperature sustains much lower, the activation energy of various chemical processes is no longer reached and metabolism stops. The temperature doesn't even have to hit freezing for you to freeze to death... especially not if it's windy enough. In fact, divers experience life-threatening hypothermia in above-freezing water if they stay down too long.

-5C is not "somewhat brisk." -5C is "below freezing." As I'm made of water, I can quite easily claim I can freeze to death in those temperatures, and the dead flesh will eventually ice up. Amusingly, if the primary fluid component of my body was alcohol (with a much lower freezing point), I'd be much more vulnerable to the cold due to a much lower specific heat. I guess, without solidification of liquid component, the proper term is "stall," because the manner of death is a stall in combustion by removing activation energy (i.e. the fuel doesn't burn). But that's not really common use for "death by low temperature."

Yeah, but you're not made of pure water. You're made of water with salts and other things dissolved in it that lower the freezing temperature the same way antifreeze lowers the freezing temp in your radiator. But yeah, you COULD freeze to death in 70 degree water too, but that doesn't mean being outside at -5C is going to cause your eyes to freeze solid.

Sounds like the people in the Training & Nutrition forum that know about zero about biochemistry.

95F is considered borderline hypothermia because if your core temperature sustains much lower, the activation energy of various chemical processes is no longer reached and metabolism stops. The temperature doesn't even have to hit freezing for you to freeze to death... especially not if it's windy enough. In fact, divers experience life-threatening hypothermia in above-freezing water if they stay down too long.

-5C is not "somewhat brisk." -5C is "below freezing." As I'm made of water, I can quite easily claim I can freeze to death in those temperatures, and the dead flesh will eventually ice up. Amusingly, if the primary fluid component of my body was alcohol (with a much lower freezing point), I'd be much more vulnerable to the cold due to a much lower specific heat. I guess, without solidification of liquid component, the proper term is "stall," because the manner of death is a stall in combustion by removing activation energy (i.e. the fuel doesn't burn). But that's not really common use for "death by low temperature."

-5C is a bit chilly but the odds of freezing to death are pretty slim unless you decide to sit around naked after drenching yourself in water.

I have ridden at temperatures below -40C and the action of cycling combined with adequate gear has kept me toasty... always find that I am colder walking in this weather and am rarely comfortable in a car in the winter due t the sedentary nature of that activity.

My favourite piece of winter kit is my Canadian army (new surplus) virgin wool sweater... with a t-shirt underneath and a windproof / waterproof shell jacket I have found that I am warm and toasty at virtually any winter temperature.
I got one of those at a surplus store here last winter and absolutely love it, aside from it being a pull over meaning the helmet needs to come off to remove it. I've never seen anything else come close to it for the sheer thickness of the wool. I use it as my outer most layer when the temperatures really drop and rely on a baselayer / fleece below it for wind blocking. Despite its thickness water vapour from sweating passes right through it and turns to frost upon contacting the cold air. The frost melts quickly upon going inside, so I open the door give it a few shakes and its nearly dry.

I'd really like to be able to find a pair of thermal underwear made of the same material / thickness. Actually heavy wool chaps would probably be better as I wouldn't need all that extra warmth in the crotch.

-5C is a bit chilly but the odds of freezing to death are pretty slim unless you decide to sit around naked after drenching yourself in water.

I have ridden at temperatures below -40C and the action of cycling combined with adequate gear has kept me toasty... always find that I am colder walking in this weather and am rarely comfortable in a car in the winter due t the sedentary nature of that activity.

+1

I've also ridden at -40C and have experienced something similar ... although with me walking in -40C keeps me quite warm, cycling is a little bit cooler, and sitting in a car is cold.

But there's the difference between having a vague idea of theories and actually experiencing real life.


I say to bluefoxicy again ... step away from the computer ... walk out of the climate controlled building ... and spend time outside. Walk, cycle, participate in other outdoor sports ...

Dress appropriately for it - enough to keep you warm, but not enough so that you're soaking everything with sweat - and you will be fine. Even in slightly cooler temperatures like -5C.

The body is amazingly adaptable and resiliant.


Incidentally, I've found that a good combination for cycling in cooler temps (like -5C) is a long-sleeved polypro top with a long-sleeved merino wool top over it, a fleecy vest over them, and my waterproof-breathable jacket with long pit zips so I can regulate the temperature. And shorts with tights over them. And thin polypro socks with heavy wool socks over them. I use a headband to cover my ears (and my helmet on my head, of course), and long-fingered gloves. At -5C I can get away with just the cycling shoes for a shorter ride, but if I'm going to be out there for several hours, I will want booties. If I warm up, I will shed clothes to make sure I don't sweat too much.

And for 22C (looking forward to when it warms up to that!), I wear short-sleeved jersey, shorts, and probably a wind vest because I do feel a bit cool when I ride. I might also carry arm warmers and knee warmers, and possible a light wind jacket, just in case the temperature drops later in the ride.

Does anyone have hands on experience with the different weights of merino wool? According to Minus 33's site for their products: light weight = 170 g/m2 , mid-weight = 230 g/m2, expedition weight = 400 g/m2. A few other brands seem to use similar weights for their products. The MEC light weight merino shirts are 165 g/m2 and feel somewhat thinner than typical cotton t-shirt material.

I was thinking of getting a pair of wool bottoms and a balaclava. For winter riding would it make any sense to go with anything but the 400 g/m2 material?

Most my merino wool tops are quite light weight ... two of them are the MEC base layer and two are Target base layers.

If you layer, you don't really need to go with heavier weights of wool. And if it is bottoms you're looking for, you really don't want anything heavy and at all restrictive over the knees.

If you layer, you don't really need to go with heavier weights of wool. And if it is bottoms you're looking for, you really don't want anything heavy and at all restrictive over the knees.

+1 ... and with layers, you can remove them as needed. This might not be an option if you have one heavy layer.

I can't believe this thread went from "where can I get merino wool" to "what temperature do eyeballs freeze."

I can't believe this thread went from "where can I get merino wool" to "what temperature do eyeballs freeze."

Welcome to Bikeforums.

I can't believe this thread went from "where can I get merino wool" to "what temperature do eyeballs freeze."

You haven't been exposed to bluefoxicy. Keep reading, believe me, it gets wilder.

I can't believe this thread went from "where can I get merino wool" to "what temperature do eyeballs freeze."

It's more of a matter of lowered body temperature causing decreased brain activity. The body burns more fuel to keep an elevated temperature when the outside temperature is cold. Wind and lower ambient temperatures have a large effect on this--wind by stripping warmed air away, lower ambient temperatures by conduction (which is slow in air). In hotter temperatures, wind helps strip evaporated water away, reducing the local partial pressure of water and allowing for more rapid cooling.

It happens that (historically) I'll maintain a body temperature a few degrees lower in colder weather--fall weather, or about 70-80F. Standard blood temperature is 98.6F and I'll rarely get much above 98 in ridiculously hot weather (38C+, 100F+). It is, however, normal for me to measure below 98 in cooler weather. I've never stayed particularly warm by dressing or wearing coats, and grew up spending the winters hiding under stacks of blankets much bigger than I am (say, 2 thick comforters, 2 cotton blankets, whatever else I can find..I had 5 crocheted blankets I'd hoarded for a while).

It's notable that, whenever I'm active, I quickly develop much better cold resistance. I have no idea why. Blood vessels, blood volume, muscle volume, heart and lung activity, metabolic rate, all that stuff changes. Take your pick. I haven't bothered to take a medical thermometer to it and see if my core temp is more stable. All I know is I used to shiver violently if the wind blew in October, to the point that I couldn't talk (couldn't keep a steady air stream to support it); and now the cold is just annoying and painful, mostly, until December or January when it start going below zero hard.

I'd rather be warm.

Yeah, but you're not made of pure water.

Also, Bluefoxicy is presumably endothermic, so that the water in his body doesn't immediately start freezing in sub-zero temperatures.

Also, Bluefoxicy is presumably endothermic, so that the water in his body doesn't immediately start freezing in sub-zero temperatures.

resumably

I'm actually finding this fascinating because my own experiences are so different from Bluefoxicy's. At 22C, I will leave the house in a T-shirt. If I'm slow-biking, the T-shirt stays on, but if I'm cooking it on my daily commute, the T-shirt comes off on the long, quiet stretches, especially if it's also sunny out.
At 29C, the T-shirt stays off until I'm within visual range of the office. That hasn't happened this year though.
At 13-16C, which it is now, I will still need to go without a jacket on those long stretches where I can pick up speed. I was comfortable recently wearing 2 layers of Merino wool, but the only reason I wear 2 layers is that I get a bit chilly at the start of the ride. Halfway through, I get sweaty, but because it's Merino, it's not uncomfortable so I won't stop to remove the top layer.

The last winter I was single, I kept a cool house to save on gas. Room temperature on most days was 16C. I cannot do that now because the repairwife has nerve damage and gets uncomfortable at such low temperatures. I can happily swim in cold water or step out into the frost as part of a sauna bath session. As I age, I get more uncomfortable in high heat, though, especially after a brush with heat exhaustion five years ago.

My experiences are my own though. I would NEVER claim that any of these are just how things are. "22C is too hot to ride in a shirt!".

I'm actually finding this fascinating because my own experiences are so different from Bluefoxicy's. At 22C, I will leave the house in a T-shirt.

In 3 feet of snow my dad will wander around outside in shorts for extended periods and claim it's "not very cold." He keeps a coat in his car.

Currently it's 17C outside and I'm hiding next to a space heater (400W set to 27C thermostat, fan forced) inside, under a blanket. I'll venture out into the other rooms for a few minutes wrapped in said blanket, or gear up in a few layers of clothes and a light jacket. I wound up under 2 blankets and huddled up to 2 pillows for warmth last night...

I'm going to get a Kotatsu with the 500W upgraded heater. I think that would be appropriate... or more comfortable. At least my Peace Lilies don't seem to mind the temperature in here too much yet, but I'll have to keep the room warm enough for those.

that just doesn't sound normal

Currently it's 17C outside and I'm hiding next to a space heater (400W set to 27C thermostat, fan forced) inside, under a blanket. I'll venture out into the other rooms for a few minutes wrapped in said blanket, or gear up in a few layers of clothes and a light jacket. I wound up under 2 blankets and huddled up to 2 pillows for warmth last night...


Have you been to a Dr yet to have your thyroid checked ... and whatever other tests they deem appropriate? If not ... GO. You're not well. You need to get help.

I enjoy wearing my merino wool tshirt (it was a gift, no clue from where). The shirt is warm, light, washes well and still looks new even thought I've worn it many many times. I'm on the lookout for more tshirts. But I have one question...

What temp do eyeballs freeze? I'm pretty sure I won't go out at that low a temp but it sounds like a great factoid for quiz night.