Advocacy & Safety - A Question for the Helmet Zealots

Ok, for the third time in 3 weeks, I've been accosted by some well-meaning pinhead about my lack of helmet. Out riding today, I pass this guy who then proceeds to run a red and overtake me on the right so he can lecture me. He said he was concerned about me "riding in the middle of the road through the center of town," and concluded with "and no helmet. Really?"

I can't believe how nice I was to this chump. I introduced myself, mentioned that I was a League certified cycling instructor, said I was using riding techniques that were proven to be safe, and it seemed like he could benefit from taking one of my courses next spring. Ok, it wasn't the best sales pitch in the world, but it was a couple of notches above what I wanted to say.

What I was thinking is, "you stupid twinkie, you ran a freakin' red and passed on the right to lecture *me* about *my* safety???

Other than those 30 seconds, I had a pleasant and enjoyable ride.

But my question is this: What is it about you helmet true believers that makes you want to tell everyone how to ride?

I mean, unless I'm getting paid to do so, I never offer unsolicited corrections to other people's riding, even though like everyone else on this forum, I see a lot of idiocy on the road. It's just plain rude.

So what is it with the helmet crowd that makes them think it's somehow ok for them to tell everyone else what to do?

Meh, he was only concerned about your safety. I think helmets are a good idea too. However, it does seem a bit odd the way he tried to catch up and share his viewpoint on this hotly contested subject. If you boil it down he was concerned about your personal safety. I think in a dog-eat-dog world we could use more "chumps" like that.

I wear a helmet all the time now, but didn't use to in my 20's and 30's. I am not a zealot - you can do what you want (but I do get irritated by those cyclists that flaunt the road rules). I can't say what would drive someone to go after you like that; however it seems that one of the sore points of humaness is the development of a "holier than thou" attitude. Nature or acquired? I don't know but you see this in many situations.

-Gary

Helmets just like automotive body frames have a fail-safe point at which their protective properties become useless. The point at which they both become useless is when the inertia involved in the crash is greater than their protective properties.

For instance kids toys will have an age recommendation on them. Automotive body frames don't have an age recommendation.

When Wouter Weyland died in a crash during the Giro d'talia earlier this year, he was wearing a helmet. But the protective properties of the helmet became useless due to the speed at which he hit his head. Because the inertia of the crash was so great.

Not everyone is going to crash like Wouter Weyland so, having a bike helmet could actually protect a cyclist's head in a crash.


In terms of the guy running a red light, he was in the wrong.

Either people don't behave this way in the UK or they don't do it to me. Which is a pity really...

Not everyone is going to crash like wouter Weyland so, having a bike helmet could actually protect a cyclist's head in a crash.


Except that colliding with an auto is even more severe than crashing into a wall while racing. So for practical commuting and utility cycle purposes, a helmet can be even less safe than for a sport cyclist.

But my question is this: What is it about you helmet true believers that makes you want to tell everyone how to ride?

I mean, unless I'm getting paid to do so, I never offer unsolicited corrections to other people's riding, even though like everyone else on this forum, I see a lot of idiocy on the road. It's just plain rude.

So what is it with the helmet crowd that makes them think it's somehow ok for them to tell everyone else what to do?

I guess the same thing that makes you think painting everyone who wears a helmet with the same brush works. Was that the broadest brush you could find?

I wear a helmet, personally I think it's daft to cycle without a helmet. But it's a free country and if you want to wear a helmet, or not wear a helmet, you're old enough to make decisions like that for yourself.

Oops, there I go giving my thoughts. Oh well... you did (kind of) ask for them.

I don't drive a car without wearing a seatbelt, and I don't ride a bike without a helmet.
What's the big deal? Why are you being so obtuse? And no, I am not a zealot. If you want traumatic brain injury from a bike crash, then go for it dude.

I wear a helmet.
I wouldn't dare ride without one.
I would never delude myself into believing that a helmet will always save my life.
I know that a helmet significantly decreases the chances of dying or severe brain injury in many common crash scenarios, but will never eliminate those chances.
I get helmet hair from wearing a helmet.
I am hotter when wearing a helmet.
I look like a dork with a helmet.
I prefer lowering my chances of serious injury while wearing my helmet, over the three relatively silly negatives listed above.
I don't ever tell people that they should wear helmets, but I think they should.
I don't like the fact that people who do not wear helmets cause my health insurance premiums to rise because they get injured more often which could have been prevented.
But again, I don't tell them this, and keep it to myself that I think they're loons.

[QUOTE=skye;13013167

But my question is this: What is it about you helmet true believers that makes you want to tell everyone how to ride?

[/QUOTE]

'Cause we're 'Mericans.

Except that colliding with an auto is even more severe than crashing into a wall while racing. So for practical commuting and utility cycle purposes, a helmet can be even less safe than for a sport cyclist.

As I said, just like an automotive body frame, there is a point at which the inertia in the crash exceeds the protection capabilities of a bike helmet. But that does not equate to 'So I guess I should not wear since it won't protect me 100%'.

Colliding with a moving vehicle is an example of the inertia involved exceeding the capability of the helmet.

'Cause we're 'Mericans.

Do you react the same way about someone asking you to wear your seatbelt in a car?

I wear a lid because I mountain bike: branches and overhead stuff can knock you out. I don't give a rat's a$$ if anyone else doesn't. I don't care about helmet laws either. If a helmet keeps me from getting whacked, I'll wear it. Gloves keep me from riding out of the woods with ripped open palms from taking a dive. If you don't want to wear safety equipment, so what, just be prepared to deal with injuries you may incur otherwise. Carry on.

I wear a helmet.
I wouldn't dare ride without one.
I would never delude myself into believing that a helmet will always save my life.
I know that a helmet significantly decreases the chances of dying or severe brain injury in many common crash scenarios

It doesn't. Something like 90% of all severe brain injuries in cycling come from collisions with cars moving at 30mph. A helmet is specced to take a 12mph hit on tarmac, taking the weight of the head only - a 30mph SUV overwhelms it like an a-bomb does sun tan oil. Like many people, you think that you "know" facts that are actually common assumptions - you didn't check.

It doesn't. Something like 90% of all severe brain injuries in cycling come from collisions with cars moving at 30mph. A helmet is specced to take a 12mph hit on tarmac, taking the weight of the head only - a 30mph SUV overwhelms it like an a-bomb does sun tan oil. Like many people, you think that you "know" facts that are actually common assumptions - you didn't check.

I only half agree with that. Wrong way ninjas' are the perfect example of a collision whether it is head on or not because of how they ignore the traffic laws. Even perpendicular traffic flow won't expect them.

It doesn't. Something like 90% of all severe brain injuries in cycling come from collisions with cars moving at 30mph. A helmet is specced to take a 12mph hit on tarmac, taking the weight of the head only - a 30mph SUV overwhelms it like an a-bomb does sun tan oil. Like many people, you think that you "know" facts that are actually common assumptions - you didn't check.

@Meanwhile. Did you actually see Mithrandir's third sentence? I know my helmet won't stop bullets, but it keeps me from getting whacked by limb's, most of which DO get my attention, and I do know they would knock me out cold without a helmet because I have seen my share of "stars" on the trail.

This thread is losing it's purpose very quickly.

It doesn't. Something like 90% of all severe brain injuries in cycling come from collisions with cars moving at 30mph. A helmet is specced to take a 12mph hit on tarmac, taking the weight of the head only - a 30mph SUV overwhelms it like an a-bomb does sun tan oil. Like many people, you think that you "know" facts that are actually common assumptions - you didn't check.

You missed my point.

I *KNOW* it will not save my life in many situations. But there are many situations where it will.

Let's put it this way.

Bicycling without a helmet: X% chance of surviving accident.
Bicycling with a helmet: X+Y% chance of surviving accident.

It doesn't matter how small Y is. I'll take it.

The problem is that people wearing helmets are frequently among the more dangerous riders out there, and then preach about safety like they're the holy. "omg you don't wear a helmet, why don't you ride safe?" "Maybe because I thought the bright lights on my bike and adherence to road safety laws and suggestions, added to the fact that the weather is freaking not permissive of a big styrofoam hat, WAS riding safe.. Unlike YOUR bike, which I see has NO lights, NO reflectors beyond the legal minimum, and which I remember seeing ridden through a red light on the way here and weaving in and out of the gutter pan."

Safe Rider: Wearing a black bike helmet and black clothes at night without lights while listening to their iPod, illegally riding through stop signs which to their credit they didn't see because they're riding against traffic.
Unsafe Rider: Bright visibility lights, reflectors, looking each way at intersections, no headphones, signalling for turns and stops, stopping at all stop signs and stop lights, riding with traffic as per the law on lower speed routes. Wearing a hi-viz beanie cap or no hat on hot days in order to keep cool enough to stay alert.

Seriously, what gives?

...yadda

What is it about you helmet true believers that makes you want to tell everyone how to ride?

.... yadda


Not a "true believer" or a "zealot", skye. I will answer your question though - I and many others met lots of riders today without helmets and didn't say a word to them.

It's probably your own problem.

Do you react the same way about someone asking you to wear your seatbelt in a car?

I wear my seatbelt, just like I wear my helmet. People get into other people's business because they know better than the other people. They're 'Mericans.

Not a "true believer" or a "zealot", skye. I will answer your question though - I and many others met lots of riders today without helmets and didn't say a word to them.

It's probably your own problem.

At times, I have wanted to say something to them, but I was already in the process of going somewhere and speed was of the essence.

You missed my point.

No, I just disagreed.



I *KNOW* it will not save my life in many situations. But there are many situations where it will.

Let's put it this way.

Bicycling without a helmet: X% chance of surviving accident.
Bicycling with a helmet: X+Y% chance of surviving accident.

It doesn't matter how small Y is. I'll take it.

A vanishingly small to zero extra chance of survival - which is what a cycling helmet provides - is not any sane person's idea of "[there are] many situations where it will [save my life]."

Btw - what tyres (model and rim width) and brake blocks to you use and what weather conditions do you ride in?

:popcorn

At times, I have wanted to say something to them, but I was already in the process of going somewhere and speed was of the essence.

I have lots of time sitting at the light, but frankly they're not wearing a helmet... if it was a child i might ask them(it is law for under 16 here), but as adults they get to make their bed and sleep in it - particularly when it comes to being safe(within our laws) or not. That reminds me of a public safety advertisement where two children are sitting in a row boat with their life-jackets on while dad's hat floats on the water a short distance away. Somehow it is easier to take action to "save the children" even when there are lots of life-jackets to go around for the adults also.

It's your business whether you want to wear a helmet, and people who insist on gratuitous advice should probably mind their own.

But i'm curious why you don't wear one. In your position you must have seen the statistics and read the stories. If you refuse on libertarian grounds, well, I hope it's worth it to you.

I personally have known a couple people with brain damage (though not from bike mishaps) and it ain't pretty -- so I wear one and insist my kids do. It doesn't provide perfect protection, of course, but it's a lot better than none.

. . . .well-meaning pinhead about my lack of helmet . . .

Funny thing, I'm never accosted riding in my favorite ball cap but have frequent pleasant human exchanges. Maybe it's a matter of attitude.

No, I just disagreed.

A vanishingly small to zero extra chance of survival - which is what a cycling helmet provides - is not any sane person's idea of "[there are] many situations where it will [save my life]."


I'm going to exit this argument, because as I stated before, I don't bother telling people what they should do, and I'm getting close to breaking that rule. To quote the great philosopher Jeffrey Lebowski, "Well, that's just like... your opinion... man".



Btw - what tyres (model and rim width) and brake blocks to you use and what weather conditions do you ride in?

Schwalbe Marathon Supreme (reflective sidewalls!), 26x2.0, 559x19 rim. I've got brand new (one month old) Shimano Deore v-brakes, BL-M590's. Still using the pads they came with. Typically avoid heavy rain but if it's light I will ride regardless. Avoid thunderstorms at all costs however.

Rear tire must have hit something the other day (most likely someone hit it with something while I was parked at work), there's a big gash in the sidewall and I can see a thread. There's no bulging so it's still structurally sound, but regardless I've got a new tire on order and will be arriving next week.

Bicycling without a helmet: X% chance of surviving accident.
Bicycling with a helmet: X+Y% chance of surviving accident.

It doesn't matter how small Y is. I'll take it.



A vanishingly small to zero extra chance of survival - which is what a cycling helmet provides - is not any sane person's idea of "[there are] many situations where it will [save my life]."
Sane or not, the statement by Mithrandir indicates a person who doesn't know didley about helmet capabilities nor how to evaluate or deal intelligently with risk.

Sane or not, the statement indicates a person who doesn't know didley about helmet capabilities nor how to evaluate or deal intelligently with risk.

+100

I'm going to exit this argument, because as I stated before, I don't bother telling people what they should do, and I'm getting close to breaking that rule. To quote the great philosopher Jeffrey Lebowski, "Well, that's just like... your opinion... man".



Schwalbe Marathon Supreme (reflective sidewalls!), 26x2.0, 559x19 rim. I've got brand new (one month old) Shimano Deore v-brakes, BL-M590's. Still using the pads they came with. Typically avoid heavy rain but if it's light I will ride regardless. Avoid thunderstorms at all costs however.

Rear tire must have hit something the other day (most likely someone hit it with something while I was parked at work), there's a big gash in the sidewall and I can see a thread. There's no bulging so it's still structurally sound, but regardless I've got a new tire on order and will be arriving next week.

Outstanding tyre choice - one of the very best you could make for safety. But if you're riding in rain at all then you'd have been better off spending the money your helmet cost on Kool Stop Pink brake pads. Good call on replacing the damaged tyre.

Outstanding tyre choice - one of the very best you could make for safety. But if you're riding in rain at all then you'd have been better off spending the money your helmet cost on Kool Stop Pink brake pads. Good call on replacing the damaged If tyre.
If Mithrandir wishes to make all choices "for safety" and avoid increased risk no matter how small he should not ride in the rain at all. Maybe not even ride a bicycle at any time; something could happen.

To paraphrase his prior calculation process:
Bicycling: X% chance of having accident.
Bicycling in inclement conditions, wet conditions, reduced visibility for cyclist as well as motorists, etc.: X+Y% chance of having accident.
It doesn't matter how small Y is.

A perversely risk averse person will avoid any additional risk no matter how insignificent

Ok, for the third time in 3 weeks, I've been accosted by some well-meaning pinhead about my lack of helmet. Out riding today, I pass this guy who then proceeds to run a red and overtake me on the right so he can lecture me. He said he was concerned about me "riding in the middle of the road through the center of town," and concluded with "and no helmet. Really?"

I can't believe how nice I was to this chump. I introduced myself, mentioned that I was a League certified cycling instructor, said I was using riding techniques that were proven to be safe, and it seemed like he could benefit from taking one of my courses next spring. Ok, it wasn't the best sales pitch in the world, but it was a couple of notches above what I wanted to say.

What I was thinking is, "you stupid twinkie, you ran a freakin' red and passed on the right to lecture *me* about *my* safety???

Other than those 30 seconds, I had a pleasant and enjoyable ride.

But my question is this: What is it about you helmet true believers that makes you want to tell everyone how to ride?

I mean, unless I'm getting paid to do so, I never offer unsolicited corrections to other people's riding, even though like everyone else on this forum, I see a lot of idiocy on the road. It's just plain rude.

So what is it with the helmet crowd that makes them think it's somehow ok for them to tell everyone else what to do?
Because they care about you, of course. Don't you know that is the only reason needed, these days? It used to be you had to actually do something wrong to get someone in your grill. Today, you only need to exist for someone to take offense.

I'll not soon forget the little town in California that made it a punishable offense to give away a puppy. Yep, give your neighbor a puppy without the ASPCA's scrutiny and approval and you, sir, are a heinous violator.

"Omnipotent, moral busybodies," is a phrase that comes to mind at times like this.

If a person rides with a helmet because he or she believes it offers some measure of protection that person is insane? Pish!

They are few, but the anti-helmet zealots here sure to compensate for their sparse numbers by their hostile and irrational spews.

I think the huge majority of us are equally content in choosing our own lids and allowing others to do the same.

Helmets.org

Why does this have to be such a contentious issue? Wear a helmet. Don't wear a helmet. Who cares?
I choose to wear one, but I really don't give a dam what you do.

I wear a helmet, I don't care if you do or do not. I've been lectured because my helmet is over 3 years old. I just smile and say thanks. So I guess I can wear a helmet and others can lecture. To each his own

Why does this have to be such a contentious issue? Wear a helmet. Don't wear a helmet. Who cares?
I choose to wear one, but I really don't give a dam what you do.
The contention arises from the opinion some espouse that helmets should be mandated, like it or not. Not choice, as you suggest - but mandate.
When that is injected, it all comes apart.

This thread is like seeing Sarah Palin run for pres. You don't care either way, but it's really amusing to watch and nothing substantial will come of it.

Funny, I was corrected by a "vehicular cyclist" today. And I was riding "vehicularly". She, and a male companion, were all decked out in their spandex, riding their carbon fiber while my wife and I were on our commuters, replete with milk crates on back and off to the grocery store. (Mind you, I can be just as spandexed as the next rider at times). We had stopped at a stop sign that intersects with a very busy road. We were in the middle of the lane and waiting to cross.

She muscles past my wife and I and says, "You've just got to assert yourself! Show them who's boss, get right out there in the road." I look over at my wife and :rolleyes: as we continue to patiently wait for an opening. Meanwhile, Ms. VC "asserts herself" into the roadway, is promptly ignored by the traffic and almost nailed by a pick up truck. She's now halfway out in the lane claiming "her space" as traffic winds around her like a traffic cone.

Eventually the opening I was waiting for came and all four of us crossed the roadway at the same time and off we went on our merry vehicular way.

Know-it-alls come in all shapes and sizes and with and without helmets.

This thread is like seeing Sarah Palin run for pres. You don't care either way, but it's really amusing to watch and nothing substantial will come of it.
Doh! ... the Sarah Palin gambit. Godwins Law cannot be far off....

Doh! ... the Sarah Palin gambit. Godwins Law cannot be far off....

I see an opening. I hope she runs, mainly for the comedy aspect.

I see an opening. I hope she runs, mainly for the comedy aspect.
I wonder if she would endorse mando helmet laws?

As a parent, the only thing that irritates me about people riding without helmets is that it sets a really bad example for kids. My thinking is that people should have control of their own body and if they want to risk being Darwin's newest example that's their choice...




So what is it with the helmet crowd that makes them think it's somehow ok for them to tell everyone else what to do?

Too bad it has to degenerate into another argument about whether helmets work, etc., because I think it's a good question. I often get perfect strangers lecturing me about helmet use - and the idea that it might be my "attitude" is kind of goofy, being as it's kind of hard to tell a person's attitude when he's just riding around minding his own business.

I wonder: is there anyone here who has ever seen a helmetless stranger on a bike and lectured him about it? And if so, why?

I have lots of time sitting at the light, but frankly they're not wearing a helmet... if it was a child i might ask them(it is law for under 16 here), but as adults they get to make their bed and sleep in it - particularly when it comes to being safe(within our laws) or not. That reminds me of a public safety advertisement where two children are sitting in a row boat with their life-jackets on while dad's hat floats on the water a short distance away. Somehow it is easier to take action to "save the children" even when there are lots of life-jackets to go around for the adults also.

I totally agree. The kids who are figuratively held prisoner, are those kids whose parents don't think kids should wear a bike helmet when riding a bike. I ate dinner with my brother n' SIL last night. I saw a video my SIL did of my niece riding a tricycle without a helmet. I was floored. I didn't have a conniption fit but, I will be sending her all the regulations pertaining to children and bikes for the state and city.

I just hope my SIL doesn't ride w/o a helmet when my niece is on the back of the bike in the basket.

They are few, but the anti-helmet zealots here sure to compensate for their sparse numbers by their hostile and irrational spews.

I think the huge majority of us are equally content in choosing our own lids and allowing others to do the same.

Ever been to Germany? Or France? Or Holland? Or Denmark? Or anyplace in continental Europe?

The "huge majority" of helmeteers only exist in the US and some other anglophone countries.

Helmets won't save your life. Helmets won't prevent serious injury. Helmets won't prevent concussion. Helmets might prevent some scrapes.

Make up your own mind.

I wonder: is there anyone here who has ever seen a helmetless stranger on a bike and lectured him about it? And if so, why?

I have, and I have the medical history to back it up. So I am not 'full of hot air'. I would tell them that while my medical history exists for a different reason, what I have can easily be caused by someone having chosen not to wear a helmet, then hitting their head.

Ever been to Germany? Or France? Or Holland? Or Denmark? Or anyplace in continental Europe?

The "huge majority" of helmeteers only exist in the US and some other anglophone countries.

Helmets won't save your life. Helmets won't prevent serious injury. Helmets won't prevent concussion. Helmets might prevent some scrapes.

Make up your own mind.

I was born in Germany and, I have seen people riding bikes in Gemany, France, and Holland(never been to Denmark). The fact of their not wearing helmets is much like the fact that the number of smokers is much higher in those countries. Because of very lenient smoking regulations.

In time, they will change their respective minds'.

I wear one whenever I commute or ride in traffic. When I ride in the boardwalk at the beach I don't. Unless I've ridden there from home.

People can do what they want. I won't tell anyone what they can or can't do, especially if I don't know them. Ever now and again I'll yell at a salmon cyclist though "you're riding on the wrong side of the road." But even then its none of my business.

I'm wondering who will admit to being a helmet zealot. Probably about as few as will admit to being anti-helmet. The problem is, the fanatics on both ends are firmly convinced that they are the sole owners of True Knowledge, and as such feel compelled to save the souls of the rest of us be it on the street or in an internet thread. The fact that these threads never die is proof of this.