"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Rider Size/Performance Research.

Hey guys I've decided to do alot of research into rider size and how they perform at that size at the amateur level so I need some info. please. To anyone that has ever finished near the front of a crit race then please tell me your height,weight,course outline (flat,hilly,etc.), and what category crit it was. I would really appreciate it alot. Thanks.

Riders of all sizes have won all types of races.. not sure what you could gain from analyzing this.

what exactly is 'near the front?'

uh, so you want me to give my height, weight, and course outline for the some 50 races I've won and the lord knows how many that I've finished near the front in.

yeah, ok. so when should I expect the check?

http://viachicago.org/public/style_emoticons/default/24.gif

All the Crits that I see are never won by guys my size (5'8 144), they seem to be dominated by slightly larger guys while us really lean guys usually have the advantage in the hills. Sadly where I live there are absolutely NO hills and all we ever have are extreme flat races. So I am curious to see if this is true all over or am I missing something. I want to know if there are any small guys competing at the front of the crits and if so is there a trend of size and build that stands out over the others.

gstein-One race will suffice thank you. And your .02 will be delievered by paypal if that is ok. :)

Ive finished near the front. Im 5-11, skinny, Im a 4, and I suck. This probably will not change.

All the Crits that I see are never won by guys my size (5'8 144), they seem to be dominated by slightly larger guys while us really lean guys usually have the advantage in the hills. Sadly where I live there are absolutely NO hills and all we ever have are extreme flat races. So I am curious to see if this is true all over or am I missing something. I want to know if there are any small guys competing at the front of the crits and if so is there a trend of size and build that stands out over the others.

theirs a junior who wins a ton of crits where i live and he weighs sub 150 at 6 foot.

All the Crits that I see are never won by guys my size (5'8 144), they seem to be dominated by slightly larger guys while us really lean guys usually have the advantage in the hills. Sadly where I live there are absolutely NO hills and all we ever have are extreme flat races. So I am curious to see if this is true all over or am I missing something. I want to know if there are any small guys competing at the front of the crits and if so is there a trend of size and build that stands out over the others.
you must not have watched many races.

That is what I am asking for Echappist. I live in a very small part of the country and I only know what is the norm for this area. Around here the bigger pedal mashers are always dominating the cat 5 4 3 crits and I was curious if this was happening elsewhere. Where I live there is no climb over 3 to 4 minutes long so being a great climber holds no advantages. So with this "velo" like scenario the bigger guys that have legs like Chris Hoy are the ones doing the most damage to the field.

That is what I am asking for Echappist. I live in a very small part of the country and I only know what is the norm for this area. Around here the bigger pedal mashers are always dominating the cat 5 4 3 crits and I was curious if this was happening elsewhere. Where I live there is no climb over 3 to 4 minutes long so being a great climber holds no advantages. So with this "velo" like scenario the bigger guys that have legs like Chris Hoy are the ones doing the most damage to the field.

Maybe you're just not strong (as a climber or as a crit racer). Just because you're light doesn't mean you're a great climber. no offense. also 140+ isn't super small.

I've never seen legs that resemble Hoy's in any of my races.

Size doesn't matter as much as you think.

140+ isn't super small.

I love this sport.

Maybe you're just not strong (as a climber or as a crit racer). Just because you're light doesn't mean you're a great climber. no offense. also 140+ isn't super small.
+1

I've never seen legs that resemble Hoy's in any of my races.

Size doesn't matter as much as you think.
+1

That is what I am asking for Echappist. I live in a very small part of the country and I only know what is the norm for this area. Around here the bigger pedal mashers are always dominating the cat 5 4 3 crits and I was curious if this was happening elsewhere. Where I live there is no climb over 3 to 4 minutes long so being a great climber holds no advantages. So with this "velo" like scenario the bigger guys that have legs like Chris Hoy are the ones doing the most damage to the field.
teammate 1: 5'10" maybe 140lbs. Has a peak wattage of 1300W, won a few sprints this year.
teammate 2: 5'10" maybe 155lbs. No idea about watts, he does well in hilly races as well as in sprints.
teammate 3: 5'8" maybe 140lbs. Sprint specialist. Squats a lot (i hear 800lbs), peak wattage of 1500W.
teammate 4: 5'5" maybe 130lbs. Sprint specialist; nicknamed the pocket rocket
teammate 5: 5'9" maybe 135lbs. Sprinted to a few Cat3/4 crit wins, on his hoods.
me: 5'8.5", 153lbs. Best results came from either breaks or on rolling courses.

There are many here who have done well in crits without having a killer sprint. If you are truly a great climber, and if, as you say, only the large guys win, then why keep on waiting for the sprints and not break away?

I call bull**** on most of that post.

Yeah 800+lb squat @ 140lbs would win the guy powerlifting events.

Even if you're talking leg press, that's still ridiculous...

Yeah 800+lb squat @ 140lbs would win the guy powerlifting events.

Even if you're talking leg press, that's still ridiculous...
opps. leg press. my bad.

I call bull**** on most of that post.

okay, you win one on the squat part.
what else are you calling BS on?

140 pound sprint specialists with pro power numbers and squats that would make lee labrada cry. Pray tell what cat are these wunderkinds.

140 pound sprint specialists with pro power numbers and squats that would make lee labrada cry. Pray tell what cat are these wunderkinds.
recently upgraded cat 3
recently upgraded cat 3, with a win in Pawling Cat 3/4
cat 2,
cat 2
cat 3 on the road, cat 2 MTB, represented Mexico as a U17 in XC.

Look, if you are really skeptical, i can PM you their USAC IDs. Pray tell just what the hell i stand to gain from spinning large tales on the internet?

and once again, i apologize about the 800lbs number. It's leg press, not squats.

That is what I am asking for Echappist. I live in a very small part of the country and I only know what is the norm for this area. Around here the bigger pedal mashers are always dominating the cat 5 4 3 crits and I was curious if this was happening elsewhere. Where I live there is no climb over 3 to 4 minutes long so being a great climber holds no advantages. So with this "velo" like scenario the bigger guys that have legs like Chris Hoy are the ones doing the most damage to the field.

Here's me (5'10", 152#) winning a cat 3 crit earlier this year: http://vimeo.com/24843879

What you can't see in the vid is my attack on the backside into the 3rd corner - it wasn't my 'great sprint' that won the race, it was having team mates working for me along with getting the jump on everyone else and taking more risks than them.

Racing is about a lot more than strength.

Eees ok, I'm not too interested. Third hand numbers carry enough inauthenticity by themselves.

I'm not saying you have anything to gain, but tall tales sure do seem to abound on the interwebs.


n
recently upgraded cat 3
recently upgraded cat 3, with a win in Pawling Cat 3/4
cat 2,
cat 2
cat 3 on the road, cat 2 MTB, represented Mexico as a U17 in XC.

Look, if you are really skeptical, i can PM you their USAC IDs. Pray tell just what the hell i stand to gain from spinning large tales on the internet?

and once again, i apologize about the 800lbs number. It's leg press, not squats.

ZeCanon is 138 lbs I think, and he has won a few crits.

A few... :lol:

Yeah 800+lb squat @ 140lbs would win the guy powerlifting events.

Even if you're talking leg press, that's still ridiculous...

dude.. I won't tell you what I leg press, but it's more than 800#. But yeah, I'm also a lot more than 140# (pre-emptive shut-up hammy!)

:innocent:

OP, I suspect that, if you are looking at a small population, and larger guys are winning the crits, it isn't "that size wins", but "that's the size of the winners".

:innocent:

+1 (well, +500)

Leg press numbers are meaningless. How is one's form? What machine? What angle? How deep? How well is it maintained? It's the weight lifting equivalent of what's your average speed.

Wait. We're supposed to lift weights now? I had enough of that playing football in HS.

Here is some research:

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Jul;87(3):238-44. Epub 2002 May 15.
Relationship between the curvature constant parameter of the power-duration curve and muscle cross-sectional area of the thigh for cycle ergometry in humans.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12111284
The relationship between W' and accumulated peak O(2)-deficit also showed a positive correlation ( r=0.63, P<0.005). Our results indicated that W' derived from the P- t hyperbolic curve as anaerobic working capacity is related to the CSA of muscle.

Notice that's muscle cross section not thigh cross section; fatties still need not apply. Furthermore, people with large thigh muscle cross sections tend to carry more weight overall, so increased power may not equal better results.

I know some damn good sprinters who are short and light. While their legs are smaller they still tend to have big legs when compared to the rest of their small bodies.

5'6" 124lb and I absolutely suck at most crits (partly due to my lack of cornering ability - if I can get in a break I can do better) however I have managed to do well in the state crit which is rather hilly. All my good results have been in circuit races, road races, and TT's.

There is definitely some advantage to a bigger rider in a crit due to better flat out power but as mentioned above if you've never seen a small rider win a crit you haven't seen many races.

No numbers on leg press for me, but I'll probably have some after the coming winter :p

5'6" 124lb and I absolutely suck at most crits (partly due to my lack of cornering ability - if I can get in a break I can do better) however I have managed to do well in the state crit which is rather hilly. All my good results have been in circuit races, road races, and TT's.

There is definitely some advantage to a bigger rider in a crit due to better flat out power but as mentioned above if you've never seen a small rider win a crit you haven't seen many races.

No numbers on leg press for me, but I'll probably have some after the coming winter :p

Watch out now, Hammy is going to get all jealous and start an arm measuring contest with you.

:)

Meaningless, but...

At 148-152, I had a ~1400W peak...
So those numbers didn't look all that suspicious to me.


5'6" 124lb and I absolutely suck at most crits (partly due to my lack of cornering ability - if I can get in a break I can do better) however I have managed to do well in the state crit which is rather hilly. All my good results have been in circuit races, road races, and TT's.

There is definitely some advantage to a bigger rider in a crit due to better flat out power but as mentioned above if you've never seen a small rider win a crit you haven't seen many races.

No numbers on leg press for me, but I'll probably have some after the coming winter :p

Skip the LP and use kettlebells or DB's for more compound movements. LP is boring.

Lunges, DB snatch, etc will probably yield better results as they're complex moves.

And oh, don't forget the bicep curls to piss off hammy.

And oh, don't forget the bicep curls to piss off hammy.

that would make his arms bigger, therefore I would win. Its a skinny-contest.

and so far only Nate has out-done me...I think he's got a cheater tape measure.

Meaningless, but...

At 148-152, I had a ~1400W peak...
So those numbers didn't look all that suspicious to me.




ok

5'10". 140 pounds on a good day, older than dirt. Winning a sprint involves so much more than power/weight.

Cavendish, and before him McEwen.

I'm 6'2" 175 and I've won a few hilly road races. I won a hillclimb once in the 3's. I've never finished a crit in the top 10. Not saying this is the norm, but that there really isn't a norm in amateur bike racing.

I've seen many flat-as-a-pancake, non-technical cat 3 crits shellacked by juniors that weigh 120# or less.

yea....last year the guy that was winning all the CAT 5 races was 250 lb. and was 6'0 tall....and it wasnt 250lb. lean

Leg press numbers are meaningless. How is one's form? What machine? What angle? How deep? How well is it maintained? It's the weight lifting equivalent of what's your average speed.

Agreed. Leg press is only relevant with the same machine and position. Even squats vary a lot from person to person with foot placement and depth.

FWIW: I bumped my squat max up 40% and saw no difference in road racing sprint results. None. Worked into that were similar gains in standing lunges, calf raises, leg curls and extensions, hip flexor raises (wtf do you call that?), and of course leg press. The race sprint just plain didn't improve. I didn't have a power meter back then to measure on-bike differences.

Burly track sprinters seem to love weight lifting, but studies indicate there is no advantage to (and it may actually hurt) one's road sprinting abilities.

Winning anything involves so much more than power/weight.

FTFY

I used to take these statements for granted. I still race like a half-wit but occasionally I will have a moment of intelligence that will grant a result that is beyond what my numbers suggest possible.

FWIW:

Weight: 145 lb
I've landed on the podium in crits several times this year (6 or 7) and have won several bunch sprints or come in second (Cat 3). In fact, I do best at flat, technical criteriums and my peak power is around 1400. Generally I see a 5 sec power of around 1300 at the end of a hard criterium.

Ill play...

Me:
Cat 4
ht 5'7"
wt 185 (big legs, short, stocky)
good bike handling skills, tech courses +, good sprint,

Last 10 crits (flat) Cat4 or Cat4/5:
place/starters
6th/41
12th/44
OTB/37
7th/33
4th/46
7th/37
9th/50
pack finish/40
4th/47
11th/40

FWIW, I have yet to finish with the lead/main pack in a RR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cavendish

5'9'' and 150 pounds according to the article. It's not your size that's causing you to lose sprints.

OP, I didn't check to see where you live but since you say its "flat" it stands to reason that, on average, bigger guys would do better (on average, as a population, not specific to any one event, blah blah blah). In flat non-technical races or moderately rolling road races, its more about watts/cda and less about watts/kg.

Winning races is as much about picking races that suit you as it is about being a "pedal masher". Put me in out local training crit (which is on a flat race track) and I can do pretty darn well (pretty decent FTP). Add that stupid effing hill in the back and those stupid effing chicanes in the middle (did I say effing yet?) and its different...

I'm 6'4" and ~210#, race A/B grade at the club level - probably somewhere around the Cat 3 mark?

~1800W peak, ~390W FTP

I do better at road races than crits (but not where there is a serious climb - I'm good at anaerobic climbs but not longer than a couple of minutes). Have picked up places/firsts in both crits and road races.