Hybrid Bicycles - Disc vs no disc

Simple question.
Disc (hydraulic or mechanic) or V brakes?

Simple question.
Disc (hydraulic or mechanic) or V brakes?

V brakes.

V brakes for me.

Vbrakes for me too.
Incidentally, my daughter burned herself badly on her hot disc brakes, after a fall at a mountain bike park.

Disc if you will be in the dirt, mud or rain. Extreme downhill too.

Otherwise, v-brakes are very capable, lighter and give you a much better selection of wheels.

I actually am in rain quite often. How much heavier are bikes with disk brakes?

Another vote for v-brakes.

For wet or winter conditions I prefer discs. Otherwise rim brakes (with decent pads like Kool-Stop Salmon) are adequate. If I could only have one bike it would have discs.

Yeah, in Seattle, you expect rain 365 days. :P
So again my question, is the weight increase significant?

Maybe one half pound additional. Not a huge difference by any means.

I ride rain or shine so for me it's disc brakes.

i've had a mountain bike with cantis, a folding bike with v-brakes, a road bike with calipers, and my new hybrid with hydraulic discs. in dry conditions, any of those braking systems, properly adjusted, will do the job just fine. however, in the wet & sloppy, there's just no comparison between the discs and the rim brake set-ups i've used. discs are made to stop you no matter what kind of wet and messy conditions you're riding through.

if i could only have 1 bike (heaven forbid), it would be hydraulic disc brake equipped.

Yeah, in Seattle, you expect rain 365 days. :P
So again my question, is the weight increase significant?

Discs will be about a full pound heavier. This takes into account the brakes themselves plus the slightly heavier hub systems, increased frame gusseting, and changes to the wheel itself. Depending on the quality of the disc system/hubs the difference could surpass one pound in some cases. You would have to decide whether this is a significant increase or not. I have bikes with both and in my type of riding see no advantage of one over the other. I have a $6,500 MTB that uses XTR V-brakes and they are great. They were used in place of disc brakes with their heavier hub system to attain the lightest build possible on this full suspension bike. In this case the difference is significant (weight wise).

On a mountain bike, hydros all the way. Anything else and I'll go with Vs. V-brakes are easier to maintain and keep working well, and also cost less to maintain. The power and modulation ability of hydros for riding technical singletrack is unbeatable, but it seems like I'm having nothing but problems with my discs this year. I won't give 'em up until they totally break, and then I'll just upgrade them to a more reliable brake, but other styles of brakes are just easier to use on a day to day basis.

And if you ride enough, you'll figure out how to use Vs, cantis, or calipers no matter the conditions. I've ridden a road bike through 3" of slush before, and you just have to learn to use your brakes earlier than you might normally to stop.

To go with the theme, I'd also say if I could only have one bike, it would be equipped with Avid Single Digit 7s using either a Shimano or Kool Stop pad. Ridiculous stopping power, and super easy to keep working.

I've ridden a road bike through 3" of slush before, and you just have to learn to use your brakes earlier than you might normally to stop.

that sounds easy enough in theory, but when that city bus blows a stop sign and is about to send me to the morgue, i might not have the luxury of that extra time at my disposal.

that sounds easy enough in theory, but when that city bus blows a stop sign and is about to send me to the morgue, i might not have the luxury of that extra time at my disposal.

Even with discs you have to have time to prepare to stop. If you hit the brakes too hard in nasty winter conditions like I have here, you'll just skid which will at least double your stopping distance anyway. To each his own, but I still think that in all conditions riding a V-brake will be just as good as a disc, and has some advantages that discs don't have.

that sounds easy enough in theory, but when that city bus blows a stop sign and is about to send me to the morgue, i might not have the luxury of that extra time at my disposal.

Hahaha!

To each his own, but I still think that in all conditions riding a V-brake will be just as good as a disc, and has some advantages that discs don't have.

my experiences have proven otherwise. my hydraulic discs stop much faster in wet conditions than any rim brake system i've used.

Not to mention that road grit on rim brake pads will chew the crap out of your nice aluminum rims if you ride in sloppy conditions. Discs FTW!

From another thread: "They add like a pound or less. My Portland weighs about 2lbs more than my Defy,which are close to each other in specs and frame size,but the Defy also has lighter tires/wheels and a carbon seatpost."

Weight's really not an issue. I switched to discs on my commuter after my first winter when my V brakes packed with snow and I bounced off the side of a car. No injury/damage,but I've had zero issues stopping since. Then I came to appreciate how much cleaner my rims were,how long the pads lasted,how little fidling was needed,and how my rims didn't need to be perfectly true(also limped home once with my front brake open because I had trashed the wheel in a pothole). I have a couple nice roadbikes and a folder with calipers,but everything else is disc. It's not worth the effort to convert the roadbikes,but I am tossing about the idea with the Brompton.

If you're in Seattle your mileage may vary, but here in Austin we've seen rain a half dozen times in as many months, so for less than the cost of the cheapest disc brake system you can pick up a pair of V-brakes and Kool Stop pads and have way better performance. Cheap cable disc brakes are often worse than cheap v-brakes for stopping.

I thought the main reason for disc brakes was for off-road - mud and dirt. So when mud gets into the brake system the disc mechanism is capable of slicing through it pretty quickly - and you stop!

I'm reading a lot of comments about discs for wet weather? Did anyone see cadel coming down the alps at 80km/h in pouring rain with rim brakes? Don't reckon he needed discs for "wet weather".

Discs for dirt/mud - rims for everything else.

Go Cadel!

Didn't you buy your Sportster 20 because the disc brake equipped Sportster 10 wasn't available?

I've only been riding on discs for 3 weeks but think they rock. Much more solid, even feel to them.

I'm reading a lot of comments about discs for wet weather? Did anyone see cadel coming down the alps at 80km/h in pouring rain with rim brakes? Don't reckon he needed discs for "wet weather".

First off,discs are illegal for the TdF,so whether they would've helped him or not,he couldn't have them. Second,he's racing,not commuting. He's on a closed course,and he's riding a bike that has to be as light as possible so he can get maximum performance. Third,he has team support. He has multiple bikes that are maintained daily by professional mechanics. If his pads wear,he gets new ones. If his rim is a little out of true,it's trued or replaced. His parts only have to last the day,his people have drawers full of spares that they get free or dirt cheap from sponsors.

Racing does not always translate into real life. You really wouldn't want to drive a NASCAR car around town.

v-brakes...... have more wheel options

In a high traffic environment with lots of entry, exit points to the traffic flow, pedestrians, etc. where there is often a need to stop on a dime, disc brakes are the way to go imho.

First off,discs are illegal for the TdF,so whether they would've helped him or not,he couldn't have them. Second,he's racing,not commuting. He's on a closed course,and he's riding a bike that has to be as light as possible so he can get maximum performance. Third,he has team support. He has multiple bikes that are maintained daily by professional mechanics. If his pads wear,he gets new ones. If his rim is a little out of true,it's trued or replaced. His parts only have to last the day,his people have drawers full of spares that they get free or dirt cheap from sponsors.

Racing does not always translate into real life. You really wouldn't want to drive a NASCAR car around town.

I don't understand this rebuttal. Exactly what point are you trying to make ?

I got discs, I vote V-brakes.

As someone with disc brakes I say disc - I love them. Although splash out for BB7 over BB5.

I'm reading a lot of comments about discs for wet weather? Did anyone see cadel coming down the alps at 80km/h in pouring rain with rim brakes? Don't reckon he needed discs for "wet weather".

it's not that rim brakes don't work at all in the rain, it's just that, again from my experiences, disc brakes work better in the wet than rim brakes.

i'm reminded of a torrential downpour descent in the scottish highlands on my recent tour across britain. i was on my road bike for the tour and my ultegra callipers got me down the mountain in one piece, but i also remember saying to myself at the time "man, this would be a whole crapload safer if i were on my hybrid right now with its hydraulic discs".

just my two cents from my experiences with both. when it's wet out, i'd rather be on my disc brake bike than one of my rim brake bikes, if given the choice.

What this topic is about .. What brakes have better brake power? Someone does not know this yet?
Or is it about who needs more this power and who has just enough?

The resident of San Francisco will be telling me, the resident of Florida, that his discs are better than my V's... and I will be opposing him? :)

v-brakes...... have more wheel options

I ran my old 1x1 with 26's and 700's. My BBU's will run 700's,26's,and even the 20's off my Holigan if I wanted to be weird. Disc brakes let you swap wheel sizes without changing brakes. ;)

I don't understand this rebuttal. Exactly what point are you trying to make ?

I don't know, I think his points are clear enough:

First off,discs are illegal for the TdF - Obviously TdF riders would instantly add 1 pound to their bikes if only they were allowed.

Second,he's racing,not commuting. He's on a closed course, - Obviously the laws of physics are suspended for racers on closed courses.

Third,he has team support. He has multiple bikes - Obviously if he gets into trouble on a tight, high speed descent his support team can stop time and swap a new bike underneath him before he flies to his death off a cliff.

If his pads wear,he gets new ones. If his rim is a little out of true,it's trued or replaced. - Obviously only professional racers have the skill or money to maintain their bicycles.

I just don't understand how you can be so dense, Talldog. ;)

I've never ridden a bike that I thought had inadequate brakes and I have never ridden a bike with disc brakes (other than on test rides around the shop parking lot). If my tires have enough grip to stop me, my rim brakes have enough grip to stop me. I have nothing either for or against disc brakes. If a bike I otherwise liked had disc brakes I would buy it without hesitation and I certainly would not pass on a bike I liked because it had rim brakes. I don't think you really need discs unless you routinely ride under extremely muddy conditions. Rim brakes can handle anything else and with common sense on the rider's part they handle that well enough if that is something you face only rarely. First and foremost buy the bike you like best, the brakes are secondary and if necessary can decide between two otherwise equal choices.

Ken

I ran my old 1x1 with 26's and 700's. My BBU's will run 700's,26's,and even the 20's off my Holigan if I wanted to be weird. Disc brakes let you swap wheel sizes without changing brakes. ;)

How often you do this ? ;)

I don't understand this rebuttal. Exactly what point are you trying to make ?

The poster I was responding too was making the point that because the TdF riders don't have discs,they're superfluous. I was making the point that comparing racing to daily riding was basically apples to oranges.

How often you do this ? ;)

Twice.....so far.;)

First off,discs are illegal for the TdF - Obviously TdF riders would instantly add 1 pound to their bikes if only they were allowed.

This sub-discussion is mostly irrelevant, but I couldn't resist this one part. :)

If discs were allowed in the TdF the entire bike is what is subject to the 7kg minimum and the teams would have no trouble whatsoever making a complete bike with discs that still weighed exactly 7kg. Various 'what if' test bikes not subject to UCI rules based on ultralight frames like the Cervelo R5ca are closer to 10 pounds than 15.

However, the discs would be rotating mass and that is more undesireable than fixed mass. I would expect teams to keep using rim brakes even if discs were legal. Rim brakes also rarely drag and are extremely easy & quick to adjust if they do. Disc calipers drag more often and generally require a shim to be fixed properly.

Twice.....so far.;)
You are the leader :)

Seriously, it was an idea when Bad Boy came out - but I think this idea has the same popularity as pen-clock, japanese invented some time ago.. :)

I recently purchased a new hybrid. It has mechanical disc brakes. I commute with it and living in Oregon I really appreciate the effectiveness in the rain.

I don't know, I think his points are clear enough:

'parently not,since at least two people didn't understand it.

The poster I replied to was making the point that racers don't have discs,so why do we need them. First,the fact that they are running caliper brakes is moot to a rim vs disc comparo because the rules say they must run calipers. Racers don't have the option to run discs*. Next,the fact that they're on a closed course means they don't really have to stop most of the time,just slow down. Nobody's turning in front of them(well,except for Hoogerland),peds aren't stepping out between parked cars,etc. The majority of the time they're just adjusting their speed,not panic braking. Finally,rim pads wear quicker than disc pads,and rim brakes rely on the trueness of the wheel for maximum efficiency,both things racers don't care about since they have a team of mechanics to work on their bikes and bins full of parts to replace anything with the slightest bit of wear. If your rims a bit out of true,do you immediately put them on a truing stand/take them to a shop,or just deal with it until it starts to get bad?

*Historically,cross racers have only been able to run canti's,despite riding in mud and snow. They are now allowed to run discs. Will be interesting to see how/if this changes the sport.

Rim brakes also rarely drag and are extremely easy & quick to adjust if they do. Disc calipers drag more often and generally require a shim to be fixed properly.

What's the shim for? If the rotors are straight,and the calipers are properly centered,the discs won't drag. I've had two bikes that needed the rotors straightened;one was banged up in shipping(the wheel also needed truing) and one that got hit by a mallet at polo. Both constitute abuse,not normal riding.

I have two disk brake bikes and they both drag their rotors, just a rubbing that is really annoying but doesn't impede the performance of the bicycle. I have learned to live with it, but I don't believe I will be purchasing a disk brake bike in the future, I'm not sold on their superiority. I just like the simplicity and the v brake setups over disks, I like the fact my rim acts as a large disk, I like the wheel offerings.

What's the shim for? If the rotors are straight,and the calipers are properly centered,the discs won't drag.
Many hydraulic calipers use shims to adjust the position of the caliper.

Your first shot at eliminating drag is to loosen the caliper (while the wheel is on) and apply the brake. Then try to keep the caliper in that position and tighten it down. Sometimes this works.

If not, you install or remove shims. Lightly dragging discs is not a big deal. Major drag needs to be fixed.

Discs are for when "adequate" braking ability isn't good enough. Higher overall power, better modulation, better wet-weather capability, and lack of rim wear are all good reasons. Reasons for rim brakes are: lighter and cheaper - but adequate! Someday, all bikes will come with discs.

Discs are for when "adequate" braking ability isn't good enough. Higher overall power, better modulation, better wet-weather capability, and lack of rim wear are all good reasons. Reasons for rim brakes are: lighter and cheaper - but adequate! Someday, all bikes will come with discs.

Well that is a bold prediction. Disks have some disadvantages, namely one sided braking force on the hubs, can't get a dishless wheel, rotational weight and forks must be built stronger to handle the braking force. Fine for a tourer, but blows for a lively road race bike. Beefing up the fork on a fine racing machine is kind of killing the ride quality.

The fact is, you can only have enough braking force to lock the wheel up, once that happens you have reached your braking limit. Skinny tired road bikes can lock a tire up just fine with dual pivot calipers. Cantis and V-brakes have even more power to lock the wheels up, which is one of the benefits of them for when you are riding wider tires. Rim brakes are just large disk calipers that clamp onto a center rotor. Adequate...you say that like it's a negative.

If you're putting in the miles, rim brakes require a lot of fiddling with. The pads wear quickly, requiring regular replacement and the distance between pad and rim and the alignment of the pad must be adjusted frequently. My hydraulic discs brakes have required zero adjustments after 9 months and thousands of miles. I don't track mileage but estimate between 2 and 3 thousand.

Worth their weight (in gold) for that reason alone.

That's interesting because my Shimano M486 hydraulic disks require a lot of adjustment. Most of it is minor, but about 1 month into the bike the rear was dragging pretty badly.

What kind of hydraulics do you have?

Tektro Auriga Comp

The poster I was responding too was making the point that because the TdF riders don't have discs,they're superfluous. I was making the point that comparing racing to daily riding was basically apples to oranges.

I don't think that was his point. His point was that rim brakes work well. It was a pretty good example actually. Your rebuttal was somewhat illogical in context of the point that he made.