Professional Cycling For the Fans - should a pro cycling team be kicked out of a race for using the N-word?

An Italian rider and a Brazilian rider are in a breakway at the Tour di Rio stage race. The Italian calls the Brazilian the N-word for not working at the front. The Italian and his coach say that words like that are common in Italy. The entire Italian team is kicked out of the race for racism. Is that fair? Talk like that happens all the time in American pro sports, right?

Two news reports. The first one it in Italian, but Google translate does a good job if you don't read Italian.
http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/01-08-2011/tour-rio-italiano-fuori-802280415663.shtml
http://road.cc/content/news/40122-italian-cyclist-thrown-tour-di-rio-after-allegedly-calling-fellow-rider-dirty

An Italian insulted a Brazilian IN BRAZIL. I wonder if that's relevant info. If it is, ironically, that's a bigger example of racism. Just speculating.

Racism is against the rules? :headscratch

KeS

Racism is against the rules? :headscratch

KeS

Hasn't been much of an issue since pro road cycling has mostly been an all-white sport. That is starting to change, though.

One insult and ban team and the rider.

Overkill and likely to get a similar reaction. No Italian teams for that event, and perhaps none for all of Brazil.

And it seems the Brazillian insulted him first.

All in all this will mean little as there are no world class races or racers associated with Brazil. I feel sorry for any up and coming Brazillian however as this may put roadblocks in his way.

To bad we didn't get a fistfight on youtube out of this. Now, that would be funny.

PORCO DIO!

I don't know, I guess the race promoters have the authority to decide what level of impropriety merits an expulsion.

That's stupid. They're professional cyclists, which doesn't take much of a brain to do. Maybe along with urine analysis we should start testing all the riders to make sure they're nice people who enjoy rainbows and puppies and don't like icky stuff?

Overreaction.

That's stupid. They're professional cyclists, which doesn't take much of a brain to do. Maybe along with urine analysis we should start testing all the riders to make sure they're nice people who enjoy rainbows and puppies and don't like icky stuff?

Huh? So if I want to be a professional cyclist and I'm black I have to put up with being called a ******? I don't think so.

In professional sports in this country if someone uses racist abuse towards another player he/she is likely to get sent off or disqualified. In fact, soccer clubs sometimes get fined if their fans racially abuse opposing teams. They are expected to enforce proper standards of conduct. In this case, I'd have kicked out the rider but not the team, and made it clear to the team management that they would be held responsible if their riders keep doing it.

Italy, btw, is a country I love but racist attitudes are depressingly common there.

Political correctness is an unwritten section of the rule book in sports today. Removing the entire team is a bit harsh though.

Huh? So if I want to be a professional cyclist and I'm black I have to put up with being called a ******? I don't think so.

That's absolutist and ignoring what we're actually talking about here; the sanction. ONE GUY demonstrated that he was a jerk, it has no bearing on his abilities as a cyclist, and it also doesn't implicate his entire team in anything.

But since you weren't talking about sanctions, yes; I hate to break it to you, but if you want to be a human being, and live on this planet, you might have to deal with discrimination.

That's absolutist and ignoring what we're actually talking about here; the sanction. ONE GUY demonstrated that he was a jerk, it has no bearing on his abilities as a cyclist, and it also doesn't implicate his entire team in anything.

But since you weren't talking about sanctions, yes; I hate to break it to you, but if you want to be a human being, and live on this planet, you might have to deal with discrimination.

Not just one guy. The big mouth's coach defended him and said that language like that was common and acceptable. If the coach had taken a different action, the rest of the team might not have been affected. And regarding "deal with discrimination", that is exactly what they did, right?

Not just one guy. The big mouth's coach defended him and said that language like that was common and acceptable. If the coach had taken a different action, the rest of the team might not have been affected. And regarding "deal with discrimination", that is exactly what they did, right?

That helps justify the team expulsion a lot.

That's absolutist and ignoring what we're actually talking about here; the sanction. ONE GUY demonstrated that he was a jerk, it has no bearing on his abilities as a cyclist, and it also doesn't implicate his entire team in anything.

But since you weren't talking about sanctions, yes; I hate to break it to you, but if you want to be a human being, and live on this planet, you might have to deal with discrimination.

Calling him names isn't discrimination. Well, it is in the literary sense of the word, that those terms are being applied to him and not to a white cyclist, but that's not how the word is used in PC. Not letting him ride would be discrimination.

KeS

I'm still trying to figure out how this went down with the referee. Does the guy run up and scream, "He called me a bad name! Kick him out! Kick him out!"

Wasn't there a basketball player who recently got fined for making a gay reference to the ref? The remark he made is sorta one of those that's not always taken in the literal sense either.

Quote from Luisa Jucá, the race organizer:
"How can we leave a guy like that in the race?" she said. "He's a visitor to our country and it's a criminal offence to say things like that here."
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-do-rio-2-2-1/stage-5/results

And here's an excerpt from
http://ilgruppo.cc/blog/the-pain-cave/marco-coledan-calls-renato-santos-a-filthy-******/
"As for the guy on the receiving end of Coledan’s common insult, Santos is reportedly undecided as to whether or not he’ll pursue legal action against the Italian."



So apparently free speech isn't high on the list of priorities in Brazil.

I like sports organizations that try to keep things sportsmanlike, so I don't object to the ruling, but "legal action?!"



Edit:The second link has the N-word in the URL so it's censored. You'll have to manually edit to use the link.

I think it comes down to being a sportsman in a sanctioned sporting event. They're basically saying, "if you want to be an a-hole, do it somewhere else. We're not going to tolerate it in this event." Is it really that hard not to be an a-hole?

It isn't okay to call someone that. Period. Italy already has a huge problem with racism in sports, especially soccer. If this guy and the manager can't figure out how to act decently, they don't deserve to be invited back.

Wasn't there a basketball player who recently got fined for making a gay reference to the ref? The remark he made is sorta one of those that's not always taken in the literal sense either.

That was Kobe Bryant and he got a $100,000 fine. Joakim Noah did the same thing not much later and he got a $50,000 fine. They said the fine was lower because he didn't yell it at a ref, which seems like BS to me. Anyway, imagine the outrage if a white NBA player dropped an N-bomb on a black NBA player.

The same argument applies to all sports. Guys are going to yell at each other and say some pretty nasty things that wouldn't be acceptable almost anywhere else, but there are still certain lines they can't cross. In America the N-word would definitely cross that line. I can't speak for Italy.

But since you weren't talking about sanctions, yes; I hate to break it to you, but if you want to be a human being, and live on this planet, you might have to deal with discrimination.And I hate to break it to you (actually, I don't), but if you want to be a human being, and live on this planet, you might have to deal with repercussions of your racist outbursts. Of course, there will always be those apologists who'll excuse and/or diminish the offensive remarks by charging anyone who takes umbrage to them as catering to "political correctness," especially if it's a Black person who is offend.
Political correctness is an unwritten section of the rule book in sports today.Imagine a German sporting participant at an Israeli sporting event joking about fitting a million Jews into a VW by way of the ashtray. If the jokester were kicked out (and you know (s)he would be), would (s)he be thought of as a victim of "political correctness," by anyone other than a neo-Nazi? lol Of course not. But if Blacks take offense to being called a "******," by an Italian, well they're just too sensitive, and any negative repercussions against the Italian is an example of "poltical correctness." Unf******believable. SMH

As to the question: should a pro cycling team be kicked out of a race for using the N-word?
I don't know about "should," but if I were race director, I would have kicked them out.

So apparently free speech isn't high on the list of priorities in Brazil.
On what bases do you make that claim? That certain utterances may be criminal there?
Well, certain utterances are criminal here as well. So, one could just as easily opine that
free speech isn't high on the list of priorities in the U.S. But don't let that fact get in
the way of your obvious national chauvinism.

Imagine a German sporting participant at an Israeli sporting event joking about fitting a million Jews into a VW by way of the ashtray. If the jokester were kicked out (and you know (s)he would be), would (s)he be thought of as a victim of "political correctness," by anyone other than a neo-Nazi? lol Of course not. But if Blacks take offense to being called a "******," by an Italian, well they're just too sensitive, and any negative repercussions against the Italian is an example of "poltical correctness." :shrug: I think both of those reactions would be PC and inappropriate, at least here in America. If the rules are different in Brazil and Israel, then they are different and need to be followed when you are in their country. When in Rome etc.

Here, there are very specific groups that you can't discriminate against in specific things like housing and employment. Apart from that you are free to be as racist as you like. Kicking them out of a race would be PC because it would be going beyond the law of the land and infringing the *offender's* rights for the sake of image. There is a right to free speech. There is not a right to "not hear free speech you don't like".

KeS

(not racist or Nazi, but believes those who are have the right to be wrong)

:shrug: I think both of those reactions would be PC and inappropriate, at least here in America. If the rules are different in Brazil and Israel, then they are different and need to be followed when you are in their country. When in Rome etc.

Here, there are very specific groups that you can't discriminate against in specific things like housing and employment. Apart from that you are free to be as racist as you like. Kicking them out of a race would be PC because it would be going beyond the law of the land and infringing the *offender's* rights for the sake of image. There is a right to free speech. There is not a right to "not hear free speech you don't like".

KeS

(not racist or Nazi, but believes those who are have the right to be wrong)
do you even know what a "right" is?
if so, please highlight where it says one has a "right" to race in an event?

In this country, as I am sure in every other, there are lines drawn in regard to what is allowed to
be uttered and what isn't (free speech). Some people think (as I do) that people should be allowed
to say any racial/ethnic epithet they'd like. I also think that the sponser(s)/owner(s) of an event can
kick out a racist for uttering racist remarks, and my ignorance is not so great that I would consider
that a violation of some supposed "right" to race.

.

Here, there are very specific groups that you can't discriminate against in specific things like housing and employment.Yes, those "specific groups" would be: any and all racial/ethnic and religious groups

It is interesting, probably the brazilian rider was black, knowing italians and europeans in general it is clear at least for me that he was going to call him "black," but not in a bad way, just like when u call rusty or ginger to a red her person just because of that characteristic. Over reaction in my opinion, what i think too is that they used "that" to get rid off of the team and nothing else. "black" is a common word brazilians use too, they are all mixed so it is not discriminatory unless is said with bad intentions. Doubt the italian knew the name of the guy so somehow in what other way he was going to call him? Italians are very funny some times...not defending the guy just making a point that maybe wasnt in bad way. Besides there are a bunch of blacks in in italy. Over reaction in my opinion to get rid off of them maybe.

do you even know what a "right" is?
if so, please highlight where it says one has a "right" to race in an event?

In this country, as I am sure in every other, there are lines drawn in regard to what is allowed to
be uttered and what isn't (free speech). Some people think (as I do) that people should be allowed
to say any racial/ethnic epithet they'd like. I also think that the sponser(s)/owner(s) of an event can
kick out a racist for uttering racist remarks, and my ignorance is not so great that I would consider
that a violation of some supposed "right" to race.

I didn't say "a right to race". You made that up and put it into my mouth. The right I was referring to was freedom of speech, and I'd already made the point that such things differ from country to country. But if a racist can't express his/her "speech" without being fired or other severe penalty, that right effectively ceases to exist. This isn't like a Burger King with a sign up saying "we reserve the right to refuse service". These guys travelled to another country to enter a race to make a living.

*Usually* things like this are handled under some sort of behavior clause in the contract, which gives the governing body wide authority to discipline. But absent that, you can't just randomly kick people out of a professional competition because you don't like them or their beliefs. And there's no mention of the grounds in the article I saw.

Enough, I'm done with this thread. :wave:

KeS

It isn't okay to call someone that. Period. Italy already has a huge problem with racism in sports, especially soccer. If this guy and the manager can't figure out how to act decently, they don't deserve to be invited back.

What is "That". The OP is very misleading, the link says the word used was 'Negro'. It also says the rider who it was addressed to insulted the Italian rider first.

I'd still like to know just what that insult was.

I didn't say "a right to race". You made that up and put it into my mouth. The right I was referring to was freedom of speech, and I'd already made the point that such things differ from country to country. But if a racist can't express his/her "speech" without being fired or other severe penalty, that right effectively ceases to exist.


If I started yelling the N-word (or similar racial taunts) at work, I guarantee you that I would be fired on the spot. Is that because the USA does not have freedom of speech?

I didn't say "a right to race". You made that up and put it into my mouth. The right I was referring to was freedom of speech, and I'd already made the point that such things differ from country to country. But if a racist can't express his/her "speech" without being fired or other severe penalty, that right effectively ceases to exist. This isn't like a Burger King with a sign up saying "we reserve the right to refuse service". These guys travelled to another country to enter a race to make a living.

*Usually* things like this are handled under some sort of behavior clause in the contract, which gives the governing body wide authority to discipline. But absent that, you can't just randomly kick people out of a professional competition because you don't like them or their beliefs. And there's no mention of the grounds in the article I saw.

Enough, I'm done with this thread. :wave:

KeS

KeS, you can't necessarily assume that the clause wasn't there because the article didn't mention it. I'm more apt to believe that there is some sort of code of conduct clause. Most professional sports contracts have them because of issues just like this. Or an athlete going after a fan or official, etc.

unwritten rule, if I have to go through a thread and change the spelling on 5 or more posts, the thread is closed. Please don't go around the censor