Advocacy & Safety - Columnist writes about intentionally running 6 cyclists off the road

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2011/kyra-gottesman-horse-trailers-and-bikes/

http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/oroville-driver-%E2%80%9Chumorously%E2%80%9D-admits-to-assaulting-cyclists-with-a-deadly-weapon/

Several thoughts:

1. The writer is apparently an equestrian in Oroville, CA and a fairly prolific writer -- likely to be well know in that community. I can envision mailing to other equestrians a copy of her article along with a letter asking if it would be OK to intentionally spook horses if they are slowing us down or if we find their riders to be peculiarly dressed. I can't take the time to do this, but if someone wanted to take the idea and run with it ...

2. She may already be starting to feel the heat -- the article has been taken down from the newspaper's website.

3. Her article is of value to the cycling community because she is putting into words what some other less vocal drivers probably feel -- rage at cyclists who take the lane. We don't have to accept or agree with it, but we'd be wise to know that it occurs and probably more frequently than we'd like to think.

4. I think that from a risk mitigation perspective, we need to understand that when we take the lane to prevent unsafe passing, we also increase the risk that some drivers will become enraged and act upon it, immediately or in the future. We may be in the right from a legal perspective, but I'm addressing the risk equation.

It is sad people like her exist, but like you say her type is probably more common than we like to imagine. I get nervous when I am on a busy road or even out in the middle of nowhere and hear cars coming behind me.

The article was sufficiently offensive that the paper took it down. The comments are still up though.

That article sounds like a confession. Hopefully local law enforcement is pursuing charges. If she really did that and then wrote about it she truly is genuinely stupid.

The google cache of it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VgBfDNM9BhAJ:www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643%3Fsource%3Drss_viewed+cache:Qd-b-IpV_-UJ:www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643+http://www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

That article sounds like a confession. Hopefully local law enforcement is pursuing charges. If she really did that and then wrote about it she truly is genuinely stupid.

+1, so much for the common sense she emphatically speaks about.

Whoops!

A few years ago there would have been an editor or two to help her avoid damaging herself until her medications get back in balance.

The google cache of it: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VgBfDNM9BhAJ:www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643%3Fsource%3Drss_viewed+cache:Qd-b-IpV_-UJ:www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643+http://www.orovillemr.com/ci_18584643&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Just reading the comments at that link, I am not surprised with the disgust for writer of the article.

I hope the writer gets' fired from her job, and investigated by the police.

The best thing about freedom of speech is you get to hear what people really think.

Several thoughts:

1. The writer is apparently an equestrian in Oroville, CA and a fairly prolific writer -- likely to be well know in that community. I can envision mailing to other equestrians a copy of her article along with a letter asking if it would be OK to intentionally spook horses if they are slowing us down or if we find their riders to be peculiarly dressed. I can't take the time to do this, but if someone wanted to take the idea and run with it ...

2. She may already be starting to feel the heat -- the article has been taken down from the newspaper's website.

3. Her article is of value to the cycling community because she is putting into words what some other less vocal drivers probably feel -- rage at cyclists who take the lane. We don't have to accept or agree with it, but we'd be wise to know that it occurs and probably more frequently than we'd like to think.

4. I think that from a risk mitigation perspective, we need to understand that when we take the lane to prevent unsafe passing, we also increase the risk that some drivers will become enraged and act upon it, immediately or in the future. We may be in the right from a legal perspective, but I'm addressing the risk equation.

Taking the risk equation into account, that is why I 'take the lane', so if a driver had murderous intentions, they wouldn't be able to do it without a lot of people seeing them do it. I have seen(not physically with my eyes) too many times where a motorist makes the age-old excuse of 'I didn't see him/her', when talking to the cops, after injuring/killing a cyclist.

Not a very bright columnist. I think she's an imbecile.

lol. The lady riding going competing in horse shows thinks cyclists spend too much money on recreation.

She is despicable. I hope that the police find the victims and put her in prison given that she published her confession.

That article sounds like a confession. Hopefully local law enforcement is pursuing charges. If she really did that and then wrote about it she truly is genuinely stupid.

The really entertaining part will be seeing how many cyclists come forward. Kinda like a bus crash; suddenly there are about 300 people saying they were on that 60 passenger bus that was nearly empty just before the wreck.

That article sounds like a confession. Hopefully local law enforcement is pursuing charges. If she really did that and then wrote about it she truly is genuinely stupid.

I'm no expert in law, and even less in California law, but I don't think that an admission of something like this will excite the police too much. It will take the cyclists coming forward along with this admission that might make them pursue some kind of justice. But the last part of what you said holds true regardless.

As a fellow motorist, I take exception that she's driving her horses around. My assumption is they were on a farm before she loaded them up, why not ride them where they are ? Why waste everyone else's time driving them around on the highway/roads ?

lol. The lady riding going competing in horse shows thinks cyclists spend too much money on recreation.

And, thinks they wear funny clothes:
http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/73208/73208,1261922153,1/stock-photo-isolated-image-of-a-teenage-girl-dressed-in-horse-riding-clothes-43480246.jpg

The best thing about freedom of speech is you get to hear what people really think.

+1. As an added bonus, it allows idiots to save us the trouble of identifying them.

It would be hilarious if a faster moving vehicle came up and pushed her and her horse trailer off the road.

Here is the original article http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LCq1yjbAb0EJ:www.orovillemr.com/news/ci_18584643+http://www.orovillemr.com/news/ci_18584643&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com

At least until Google updates its cache.

Not totally unrelated but my Facebook status update from yesterday:

Mr. Ironic coming from the opposite direction hauling a boat with ten motorist stuck behind, to me (with no other cars in my lane in sight) "Get off the road.", Like ya I'm the greater inconvenience to traffic.

http://www.cyclelicio.us/2011/kyra-gottesman-horse-trailers-and-bikes/

http://bikinginla.wordpress.com/2011/07/31/oroville-driver-%E2%80%9Chumorously%E2%80%9D-admits-to-assaulting-cyclists-with-a-deadly-weapon/

Several thoughts:

1. The writer is apparently an equestrian in Oroville, CA and a fairly prolific writer -- likely to be well know in that community.
Based on my experiences in and around Oroville and working with students from Oroville, I would say that writing is not a good way to get well known in that community. It didn't seem like many of the people who could read did it very often.

Two days ago a woman threw a raging fit when I pulled up next to her on the right. I was waiting for traffic to clear just like she was, but my being there prompted her to pull out into the intersection while screaming something about bicycles. Not only was this crazy as all get out, she nearly got hit by cross traffic when she attempted to"get ahead"of me. As I said,I only came next to her,I didn't even take over the lane.

Marc

Guess she feels safe from prosecution after publicly admitting to doing this. Lets circulate it and hope one of the cyclist recognize her and press charges.

Guess she feels safe from prosecution after publicly admitting to doing this. Lets circulate it and hope one of the cyclist recognize her and press charges.

+1000:mad:

I was going to make a snide comment about Oroville being a hick town, but the article seems to speak for itself.

Gottesman is a regular columnist for the Oroville Mercury Register and the Chico Enterprise Record:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kyra+Gottesman%22&hl=en&prmd=ivnso&source=lnms&tbm=nws

bikesd.org has saved a copy of the original article from Google's cache so that it will survive Google expiring their cache:

http://bikesd.org/orvillemtr.html

Anyone feel like contacting any of these folks to see if they can find the victims?

http://www.lakeorovillebicyclists.org/
http://www.greenlinecycles.com/
http://mtbike.mountainzone.com/bikeshops/detail.asp?bid=647545

Gottesman is a regular columnist for the Oroville Mercury Register and the Chico Enterprise Record:

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Kyra+Gottesman%22&hl=en&prmd=ivnso&source=lnms&tbm=nws

bikesd.org has saved a copy of the original article from Google's cache so that it will survive Google expiring their cache:

http://bikesd.org/orvillemtr.html

That is a relief. I was hoping someone would/could do that.


Anyone feel like contacting any of these folks to see if they can find the victims?

http://www.lakeorovillebicyclists.org/
http://www.greenlinecycles.com/
http://mtbike.mountainzone.com/bikeshops/detail.asp?bid=647545

Count me in.

I sent e-mails to the President and Vice President of the Lake Oroville Bike Organization, and to the Greenline Cycles Bike Shop.

I received a reply from the Lake Oroville Bike Organzation's President, that he was not aware of any LOBO members having had a confrontation with Ms. Gottesman at the present time.

Based on my experiences in and around Oroville and working with students from Oroville, I would say that writing is not a good way to get well known in that community. It didn't seem like many of the people who could read did it very often.

:roflmao2::D

Based on my experiences in and around Oroville and working with students from Oroville, I would say that writing is not a good way to get well known in that community. It didn't seem like many of the people who could read did it very often.

The issue is not with Oroville, its people, their educational level, and whether they are hicks. It is specifically with this individual and the people who would support her reckless behavior. I beleive this is a small minority of Orovilles's population.

I should have been more explicit about the communities in which I believe she is probably well known:

- The equestrian community in the area - browsing her articles, she appears to be active or interested in horse-related competitions of some kind. My impression is that local horse people are tight-knit and all know each other. I believe they tend to be relatively educated and affluent, and would be perturbed to find that one of their own has intentionally endangered other non-motorists, given that equestrians are exposed to the risk presented by other vehicles when they ride. "Given Ms. Gottesman's article, is it now OK for us to intentionally spook your horses because you look funny and are in our way?" is the question I'd like to pose to her collegues.

- The intellectuals, writers and journalists, another tight-knit community in a small town, certain to include some cyclists and to know Gottesman. Compared to the general population, these people are least likely to accept her reckless attitude and behavior, and are not likely to remain silent in the face of it.

Who will have the greatest impact when confronting Gottesman -- the cycling community, for which she expresses contempt, or her friends and associates, whose opinion she values?

Upon re-reading, I realized that the incident was probably not near Oroville:


The streets around the horse park, located in the venture capitalist and techno geek capital of the world

Silicon Valley maybe?

The issue is not with Oroville, its people, their educational level, and whether they are hicks. It is specifically with this individual and the people who would support her reckless behavior. I beleive this is a small minority of Orovilles's population.

I should have been more explicit about the communities in which I believe she is probably well known:

- The equestrian community in the area - browsing her articles, she appears to be active or interested in horse-related competitions of some kind. My impression is that local horse people are tight-knit and all know each other. I believe they tend to be relatively educated and affluent, and would be perturbed to find that one of their own has intentionally endangered other non-motorists, given that equestrians are exposed to the risk presented by other vehicles when they ride. "Given Ms. Gottesman's article, is it now OK for us to intentionally spook your horses because you look funny and are in our way?" is the question I'd like to pose to her collegues.

- The intellectuals, writers and journalists, another tight-knit community in a small town, certain to include some cyclists and to know Gottesman. Compared to the general population, these people are least likely to accept her reckless attitude and behavior, and are not likely to remain silent in the face of it.

Who will have the greatest impact when confronting Gottesman -- the cycling community, for which she expresses contempt, or her friends and associates, whose opinion she values?

I don't know, but she needs a reality check from somebody because "road warrior" justice is a slippery slope which she seems to have slide quite far down already.

I don't know, but she needs a reality check from somebody because "road warrior" justice is a slippery slope which she seems to have slide quite far down already.That's what I was thinking. A call from a local cop just saying that her column showed that she might have some misconceptions about her responsibilities as a driver might be in order. The truth is, she may have just said she did something she wanted to do, in which case there may be no actual victims.

"Given Ms. Gottesman's article, is it now OK for us to intentionally spook your horses because you look funny and are in our way?" is the question I'd like to pose to her collegues.



The irony in this statement is huge... apparently horses are easily spooked by bikes... as bikes move fast and quiet. (this was explained to my by some horse riders near a bike path that I regularly use. As a result I typically slow down around horses that are ridden on the nearby adjacent paths.)

I'm no expert in law, and even less in California law, but I don't think that an admission of something like this will excite the police too much

It depends on what they are admitting to. I remember from oh a decade ago some polygamists going on tv to say their life was OK, only to get prosecuted.

seriously, the whole thing is bizarre. i am very careful around horses both on my bike and when I walk my dog, i don't want to scare the horse. you'd think someone who rides would be more sympathetic to other vulnerable people. but then maybe she's pissed off from bikers on the horse trails buzzing her.

The irony in this statement is huge... apparently horses are easily spooked by bikes... as bikes move fast and quiet. (this was explained to my by some horse riders near a bike path that I regularly use. As a result I typically slow down around horses that are ridden on the nearby adjacent paths.)
Ever since I saw this video, I pass horses as widely as possible:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5fv91yB4Gw

Upon re-reading, I realized that the incident was probably not near Oroville:



Silicon Valley maybe?

Most likely Woodside.... has a big horse arena and is an area with a lot of cyclists.

Ever since I saw this video, I pass horses as widely as possible:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5fv91yB4Gw

Wow, what a cluster. Anybody's bike get smashed?

My sister was into horses when she was younger. Hopefully I don't offend any "horse people" on here, but horses are really, really dumb in relation to how powerful they are. And the girls who are lifelong into horses are a bit odd.

Wow, what a cluster. Anybody's bike get smashed?

My sister was into horses when she was younger. Hopefully I don't offend any "horse people" on here, but horses are really, really dumb in relation to how powerful they are. And the girls who are lifelong into horses are a bit odd.
I once thought of trying to ride a horse. But after what happened to Christopher Reeve(RIP), I quickly quashed that thought.

The bigger issue is common courtesy. When we are in our cars and come upon a much slower vehicle, what do we think? Most of us think along the lines "Come on, step on the gas." If it's a slow vehicle pulling a trailer we think "Pull over, let us go by." And who among us hasn't been stuck behind that person on the interstate who doesn't understand that the left lane is the hammer lane? In the days when Desi still loved Lucy those who drove well under the speed limit were called road hogs. We don't like road hogs. While they could be new drivers unsure of themselves, old folks just taking their time, or a large vehicle requiring a much lower speed to remain safe, we generally view them with distain. Which is to be expected. After-all, they are slowing us down! So, from this POV we gain the perspective of the writer's frustration. Not that her hell bent attitude was right, far from it. However, as cyclist who have every right to take the lane and not yield to much faster traffic it is we who become the much hated road hog.

This can be resolved with common courtesy. Just move over and let the faster vehicles pass. Usually, it costs us nothing. More importantly, it doesn't give the chosen few anything to write about!!!!!

Couple questions for those of you that know the laws a little better than I.

#1 When driving on a two lane road an coming upon slower vehicles (bicycles) If it is unsafe to pass them. Like if you are driving a truck with a horse trailer. When do the slower vehicles have to pull over and let you pass. Or do you just stay behind them vs passing on a double yellow line?

#2 was anyone injured? All I got from her article is this
I didn't have time to ask any of these questions in person, though I would have been curious to hear their answers. Instead I continued with the only option I had — upward and onward. This forced them to swerve to the side, stop their bikes and give their poor tired legs a rest, though most of them decided to exercise their middle fingers. I smiled, blew kisses and gave them the Princess Di wave and continued on my way.

The bigger issue is common courtesy. When we are in our cars and come upon a much slower vehicle, what do we think? Most of us think along the lines "Come on, step on the gas." If it's a slow vehicle pulling a trailer we think "Pull over, let us go by." And who among us hasn't been stuck behind that person on the interstate who doesn't understand that the left lane is the hammer lane? In the days when Desi still loved Lucy those who drove well under the speed limit were called road hogs. We don't like road hogs. While they could be new drivers unsure of themselves, old folks just taking their time, or a large vehicle requiring a much lower speed to remain safe, we generally view them with distain. Which is to be expected. After-all, they are slowing us down! So, from this POV we gain the perspective of the writer's frustration. Not that her hell bent attitude was right, far from it. However, as cyclist who have every right to take the lane and not yield to much faster traffic it is we who become the much hated road hog.

This can be resolved with common courtesy. Just move over and let the faster vehicles pass. Usually, it costs us nothing. More importantly, it doesn't give the chosen few anything to write about!!!!!

In none of those cases, would a driver run the slower vehicle off of the road, however.

the fact that they were waving her around suggests to me that there was room to pass and she didn't want to move over. Probably because of the magic double line. I've had this happen on a road that was nearly destroyed by truck traffic and it was too dangerous to ride by the fog line. A truck stayed behind me even though there were ample opportunities to pass. I don't usually wave people around, but I waved this guy around many times. I am not going into a ditch when there is a perfectly adequate opposing lane for someone to use to pass me, that's just ridiculous.

#1 When driving on a two lane road an coming upon slower vehicles (bicycles) If it is unsafe to pass them. Like if you are driving a truck with a horse trailer. When do the slower vehicles have to pull over and let you pass. Or do you just stay behind them vs passing on a double yellow line?In California, this is specifically addressed by CVC 21656.
Turning Out of Slow-Moving Vehicles

21656. On a two-lane highway where passing is unsafe because of traffic in the opposite direction or other conditions, a slow-moving vehicle, including a passenger vehicle, behind which five or more vehicles are formed in line, shall turn off the roadway at the nearest place designated as a turnout by signs erected by the authority having jurisdiction over the highway, or wherever sufficient area for a safe turnout exists, in order to permit the vehicles following it to proceed. As used in this section a slow-moving vehicle is one which is proceeding at a rate of speed less than the normal flow of traffic at the particular time and place.So anywhere that a safe turnout is available. The law also only requires turning out if 5 or more vehicles are backed up. I'll turn out for 1 if there is a safe turnout area.
#2 was anyone injured? All I got from her article is this
I didn't have time to ask any of these questions in person, though I would have been curious to hear their answers. Instead I continued with the only option I had — upward and onward. This forced them to swerve to the side, stop their bikes and give their poor tired legs a rest, though most of them decided to exercise their middle fingers. I smiled, blew kisses and gave them the Princess Di wave and continued on my way. It doesn't sound like anyone was, though she wouldn't necessarily know that. Running people off the road is still unacceptable, even if nobody is actually injured.

This can be resolved with common courtesy. Just move over and let the faster vehicles pass. Usually, it costs us nothing. More importantly, it doesn't give the chosen few anything to write about!!!!!If there is a safe turnout then of course I'll turn out. If there isn't, I won't. Safety is more important than convenience. The world is not going to end if a driver has to wait a few seconds or even a few minutes for a safe place to pass. Minutes would be extremely unusual. Safe places to pass always open up.

The main problem with the "courtesy" claim is that drivers who make it usually think that bicyclists can turn out anywhere, even though they often can't do so safely.

If there is a safe turnout then of course I'll turn out. If there isn't, I won't. Safety is more important than convenience. The world is not going to end if a driver has to wait a few seconds or even a few minutes for a safe place to pass. Minutes would be extremely unusual. Safe places to pass always open up.

The main problem with the "courtesy" claim is that drivers who make it usually think that bicyclists can turn out anywhere, even though they often can't do so safely.

And, the usual claim from cyclist is that they can't safely move over. Usually, they can, but don't want to. It is a battle of egos.



Agreed, regardless of reason, no driver has a right to harm cyclist.

the fact that they were waving her around suggests to me that there was room to pass and she didn't want to move over. Probably because of the magic double line. I've had this happen on a road that was nearly destroyed by truck traffic and it was too dangerous to ride by the fog line. A truck stayed behind me even though there were ample opportunities to pass. I don't usually wave people around, but I waved this guy around many times. I am not going into a ditch when there is a perfectly adequate opposing lane for someone to use to pass me, that's just ridiculous.

I believe it. It never fails to amaze me how many drivers seem to have more regard for a strip of paint than a fellow human being.

In California, this is specifically addressed by CVC 21656.So anywhere that a safe turnout is available. The law also only requires turning out if 5 or more vehicles are backed up. I'll turn out for 1 if there is a safe turnout area.It doesn't sound like anyone was, though she wouldn't necessarily know that. Running people off the road is still unacceptable, even if nobody is actually injured.
Interesting to know.
So by law if a bicycle rider is riding on a long curvy road and cars are not able to pass. Once the cyclist gets 5 cars behind them they have to pull off at the first spot than can safely do so?

And, the usual claim from cyclist is that they can't safely move over. Usually, they can, but don't want to. It is a battle of egos.

If there is a shoulder, this issue doesn't come up. So it's quite common that there is no safe place to turn out without slowing to a crawl -- kamakaziing off into the ditch is not something I am going to do for anyone. I have always doubted that a motorist would like me to slow to a crawl in order to get out of the way. I ride an awful lot of miles, and the "road hog" scenario has come up once in 35 years of being roadie. There was another time that I don't count because there was a line of four cars that wouldn't pass because there was a cop at the back of the line. I can actually recall the number of times someone has been stuck behind me for more than 30 seconds over that period of time. It's extremely rare, stressful to me, and I don't like it.


Interesting to know.
So by law if a bicycle rider is riding on a long curvy road and cars are not able to pass. Once the cyclist gets 5 cars behind them they have to pull off at the first spot than can safely do so?
This is the law in most states. And there often is a provision that a slow moving vehicle has to do the same. A slow moving vehicle often has the definition "going slower than the predominant speed on that section of road." So your Lambo counts should you be going slow enough. Let me know if you ever see a trucker or other motorist pull off when they have 20 cars stuck behind them.