Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - My wheel is untrue.... again.

Over the past two months, I've had repeated instances of my rear wheel being out of true just enough that it drags on my left brake. My shop did some minor retruing a couple of weeks ago, but it happened again yesterday on the ride in NJ. No spokes are broken, and all the spokes seem tensioned. The wheel spins without being slowed, but there's enough drag that I feel it. Is this a sign of a developing problem with the wheel, or is it that the shop didn't true the wheel particularly well?

This is a handbuilt 36 spoke wheel with Alex rims constructed by my shop in 2009.

The wheel spins without being slowed, but there's enough drag that I feel it.

If you lift the bike and spin the wheel, can you see it hit the brake pad?

If you lift the bike and spin the wheel, can you see it hit the brake pad?

I didn't see it, but Paisan did when he asked to look at it.

a wheel slightly out of true isn't the worst thing in the world and just because it's hitting the brake pad doesn't necessarily mean it's that bad. if you have your brakes setup very close to the rim that will happen. Did you have an incident that necessitated it getting trued up a couple weeks ago?

a wheel slightly out of true isn't the worst thing in the world and just because it's hitting the brake pad doesn't necessarily mean it's that bad. if you have your brakes setup very close to the rim that will happen. Did you have an incident that necessitated it getting trued up a couple weeks ago?

No, just the feeling I had something dragging. I rode a metric century with the problem happening on and off. Whenever I spun the wheel I didn't notice any dragging but the wheel did look slightly out of true. I do have tight brake clearances.

Perhaps loosen up the breaks a little???

I'd expect better from a hand built high spoke wheel. But I wouldn't get too hung up over it either. Especially on a tougher wheel. Hybrid-type wheels that are both heavier and less expensive can be slightly out of true their whole lives and it's no big deal. Open the brake slightly, or maybe you just need to tilt the caliper more to one side. If it gets worse or you start popping spokes, then have the wheel rebuilt. My wheels are not perfectly true, but I only wish my old girlfriends were as true as my wheels.

That would drive me nuts. I'd still take it back to the shop and have them re-tension the wheel. Whenever I get new wheels I have them tensioned before I pick them up then I put a couple hundred miles on them then take them back and have them tensioned again. That usually does it.

Not a bad idea to get it checked out. Could be that the wheel is out of true, that the brake caliper has been knocked off-center, or some combination of the two. Addressed promptly, it shouldn't turn into a big problem...

Perhaps loosen up the breaks a little???

If you're running a very tight clearance, this might be the solution. Even when I bring my wheels to spot-on true on the CX bike, they're a little bit out after a good 20 mile pounding on the trail. I don't worry about a 0.5 - 1.0mm wiggle on those wheels because I run the brakes a little more open (for mud clearance) anyhow.
Consider doing the same and adjusting the pull on your levers appropriately if you're having just slight ( < 0.5mm ) out-of-true issues. More than that, and then I definitely look to bring the wheel back into alignment.

If you're running a very tight clearance, this might be the solution. Even when I bring my wheels to spot-on true on the CX bike, they're a little bit out after a good 20 mile pounding on the trail. I don't worry about a 0.5 - 1.0mm wiggle on those wheels because I run the brakes a little more open (for mud clearance) anyhow.
Consider doing the same and adjusting the pull on your levers appropriately if you're having just slight ( < 0.5mm ) out-of-true issues. More than that, and then I definitely look to bring the wheel back into alignment.

Paisen, who was once a bike mechanic, did a retrue job at the 20 mile mark of the ride, and things rode better for me the rest of the day. The drawback is that riding for 20 miles with a dragging brake and trying to keep up with roadies wore down my legs and caused my arthritic knees to ache. Not a good time.

I'll bring the bike back to the shop and have them check into it, and possibly set the brakes open more.

BTW, this problem first cropped up during my Ohio vacation, on a ride with Stoutdog. Stoutie might remember me complaining about feeling something dragging as if I'd broken a spoke.

you had that issue when we went out to the SRT. Something must be up with it.

you had that issue when we went out to the SRT. Something must be up with it.

Yes, that's why I'm taking it back to the shop.

going today?

It is likely that the builder did not do an adequate job of stress relieving the spokes before doing the final tensioning. The spokes need to be brought to a much higher stress than can be done with the spoke wrench after the wheel is laced - I usually just grab two adjacent sets of parallel spokes and give a mighty squeeze. THis extra tension seats the spokes and tightens the bend at the hub the correct amount. IT also loosens up the spokes a bit and they will need to be brought back up to tension. If this is not done when the wheel is first built, riding on the wheel will naturally do the same thing over time, although it results in the loss of tension while riding, which can result in a wheel going out of true, or sometimes completely collapsing (rarely), or braking spokes if the wheel is not retensioned and ridden for a long time.

It is likely that the builder did not do an adequate job of stress relieving the spokes before doing the final tensioning. The spokes need to be brought to a much higher stress than can be done with the spoke wrench after the wheel is laced - I usually just grab two adjacent sets of parallel spokes and give a mighty squeeze. THis extra tension seats the spokes and tightens the bend at the hub the correct amount. IT also loosens up the spokes a bit and they will need to be brought back up to tension. If this is not done when the wheel is first built, riding on the wheel will naturally do the same thing over time, although it results in the loss of tension while riding, which can result in a wheel going out of true, or sometimes completely collapsing (rarely), or braking spokes if the wheel is not retensioned and ridden for a long time.

Wheel was built spring 2009. It has 2400 miles on it. I think if it were a build problem it would show up before now.

I must say that when I have poorly built wheels they show at about 2000 miles. I've posted several times that the 400 mile durability reports by some posters mean absolutely nothing to a Clyde wheel.

Poor wheels show poor built characteristics at about 2,000. A good wheel will last nearly 20,000 with VERY LITTLE attention. ;)

Not to be Debbie Downer but I'm betting your wheels weren't built very well and now showing the effects (as I've noted after years of experience). I hate to say it but I'm thinking it's all downhill from here. That has been my experience with several poorly built and maintained wheels. :(

A good wheel will last nearly 20,000 with VERY LITTLE attention.

If you live in sunny California. Up here in the Pacific Northwet, the 9 month winter will put some hurt on a rim braked wheel. Sand and cinder get spread on the road any time there's a chance it's icy out, and that stuff turns into grinding paste when combined with road water, random curb grit, and brake pads. I'm lucky to see 9,000 on a pair of my commuting rims. (Not that they go out of true more often, just that they wear out faster. I'd love to get 20,000mi from a pair of rims.)

If you live in sunny California. Up here in the Pacific Northwet, the 9 month winter will put some hurt on a rim braked wheel. Sand and cinder get spread on the road any time there's a chance it's icy out, and that stuff turns into grinding paste when combined with road water, random curb grit, and brake pads. I'm lucky to see 9,000 on a pair of my commuting rims. (Not that they go out of true more often, just that they wear out faster. I'd love to get 20,000mi from a pair of rims.)

Also, I've taken my wheel on some rough ground - canal towpaths, rail trails, weather-beaten Ohio and PA roads, etc. Under the harsher conditions I'd think if there were a problem in the build, it would show up before now.

(Not that they go out of true more often, just that they wear out faster.)

I'm sorry, I thought that was the issue at hand here.

The wheel wasn't out of true by much but the spot that was out of true spanned 4 spokes(8 total but I'm only counting spokes that needed to be adjusted) so your looking at almost 25% of the wheel, hence the feeling that the wheel was dragging vs just the brake tapping the rim. It only took about 1/4 turn on the center 2 spokes and 1/8 on the outer two to get back true. Well, as true as I felt comfortable getting it on a bike upside down in a parking lot using a multi tool spoke wrench. The spokes were tensioned all around and I didn't feel any that were noticeably more or less tenioned than the rest. Someone mentioned that the wheel might not have been pre stressed, unfortunately I did not pay attention to see if the spokes had been seated (it's been a loooong time since I built a wheel but I'm talking about when you flatten the elbows at the flanges). I also recentered the brakes just a little but loosening them up wasn't necessary.

I'm sorry, I thought that was the issue at hand here.

It is. I'm just jealous of how long your wheels last. :p

It is. I'm just jealous of how long your wheels last. :p

Ah! Yeah, remind me not to move to Wa.:D We got caught on a rainy descent a few years back. (GMR 20 miles). My new Ultegra brake pads were flat and my rims full of water. I had to take the wheels apart and buy new pads after one ride. I can't imagine an entire season, or year. You can have Wa, I'm staying in Ca. It may be expensive but I save a ton on bike parts.:D

Neil, If the wheel spins true with no load, but developes a wobble under load I would suspect a tension issue.

Brad

cliff: I just moved from washington. Love it there. Love the weather and everythingf about it. If you get a chance to ride around La Connor, it is outstanding!

I used to have the same problem on my Specialized Crossroads. I am definitely an aging Clydesdale. When I step on a scale, it usually says "One at a time please...." I replaced the rear wheel with a 40-spoke wheel, and I haven't had a problem since.