Bicycle Mechanics - 2012 Shimano Tiagra 12-30 ten speed cassette

Has Shimano gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra?

I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette on the Harris website: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#10

The cassette is a dream-come-true for Shimano 105 & Ultegra road bikes that need one more low gear.

Is the quality the same as 5600 105 ten speed?

Interesting item. Shimano's web site still list Tiagra as 9-speed but the cassette page is nearly blank on details so maybe they are going to make it 10-speed for 2012.

Harris used to make custom wider range cassettes by adding a larger big cog and deleting one of the intermediate cogs on stock Shimano 9-speed cassettes. They took a 12x27 9-speed cassette, replaced the 12 And 13T cogs with a 1st position 13T cog and added a spacer and 30 or 32T large cog behind the 27. This worrked with 9-speed but not 10-speed due to the shape of the back of the largest 10-speed cogs. Also they were more expensive than the stock cassettes and more than the $50 for the one you referenced.

Maybe this new 10-speed cassette will be a stock Shimano item. Tiagra should be equivalent to 105 in quality and durability but will probably weigh a bit more.

Has Shimano gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra?

I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette......

Yes, 2012 Tiagra is ten speed. The 12-30 cassette is a response to SRAM Apex. Getting very wide range 10 speed cassettes is a non-issue now, though, with the higher end mountain bike groups having gone to 10 speed now as well. Although that 30t largest cog may be a sweet spot for a lot of folks who don't want a 32t or more.

Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex.":D

Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex.":D

Let us know how long the novelty of that setup lasts. I suspect you'll want to return to your triple and tighter cassette after a few hard rides.

Yes, 2012 Tiagra is ten speed. The 12-30 cassette is a response to SRAM Apex. Getting very wide range 10 speed cassettes is a non-issue now, though, with the higher end mountain bike groups having gone to 10 speed now as well. Although that 30t largest cog may be a sweet spot for a lot of folks who don't want a 32t or more.

Personally, I recently converted one of my bikes from a Shimano road triple setup with a 12-27 ten speed cassette to a compact double Shimano setup with a 12-32 ten speed cassette (and a mtb rear derailleur). I call it "Shimapex.":D

I did the same and had no problem with the Ultegra GS rear Deraillear and the Apex 11-32 cassette.

The spacing on the 12-30 is close to ideal. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against.

I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my Commuter/ultra-light touring bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.

Let us know how long the novelty of that setup lasts. I suspect you'll want to return to your triple and tighter cassette after a few hard rides.

Nah, I'm loving it. No more road triples for me. Touring triples and mtb triples, yes. But the new drivetrain I described above keeps things simple and gives me the climbing gears I need. If it's not for you, fine; but no need to be rude.

Nah, I'm loving it. No more road triples for me. Touring triples and mtb triples, yes. But the new drivetrain I described above keeps things simple and gives me the climbing gears I need. If it's not for you, fine; but no need to be rude.

It wasn't my intention to be rude but my post does have a bit of bite to it now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.

It wasn't my intention to be rude but my post does have a bit of bite to it now that I re-read it. Sorry about that.

No prob.:)

And I do understand about the Apex-like stuff not being for everybody. But for that person who wants the simplicity of double shifting up front with some very low climbing gears, it really is a nice setup.

I've sold quite a few bikes equipped with Apex, and all of those folks seem to love it. And I retrofitted a couple of older racing bikes with it for a customer I have a lot of respect for, riding-wise. He loves it, and his testimony lead me to try it on my own bike, albeit with Shimano parts. It's not that that gearing is anything new, what's new is that in the ten speed era there hasn't been much available in very wide range 10 speed cassettes until now. I think it just opens up a lot of possibilities, and I'm kind of excited about it.

Woohoo, cheaper 10-speed cassettes! I'm all for it.

The spacing on the 12-30 is close to ideal.

I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my Commuter/ultra-light touring bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.
I'm running similar gearing on one of bike with a 52/42/26 triple and a 12x27 10-speed. My problem with the 12x30 is that you lose the 16T cog which I find extremely useful and the 26x27 low is plenty for me for anything but loaded touring. Actually the 12T is pretty much a waste for me with the 52T big ring and i wish Shimano made a 13x30 cassette which would allow the 16T to remain.

Actually my ideal setup is on another bike with a Campy 53/42/26 Chorus triple and Campy's 13x29 10-speed cassette. The 53x13 is plenty high for any of my riding, the 26x29 is almost touring bike low and the 16T is there.

Tiagra should be equivalent to 105 in quality and durability but will probably weigh a bit more.

I expect Tiagra will use plate cogs rather than the spidered cogs on 105/Ultegra, so yeah, I bet there'll be a notable weight difference, but equivalent longevity. SRAM PG1050 cassettes are an alternative, and have aluminum spiders for the bigger cogs.

I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.

I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.
Well, SRAM refuses to offer triple road cranks and brifters so the only way they can get any reasonably low gear is to offer a very wide range cassette. I prefer the Shimano approach as triples let you have really low gears without a lot of big gaps in the gears you use most. Unfortunately Campy has moved away from triples for all of it's major groups too. I have the last generation of Chorus triple cranks and have to plan on using it for a long time.

Actually my ideal setup is on another bike with a Campy 53/42/26 Chorus triple and Campy's 13x29 10-speed cassette.

I love the Campy 13 x 29 10 speed cassette, too. It's been on one of my bikes for three years now, combined with a compact (50/34) up front. Great combo for me. I refer to that cassette on my Campy-equipped bike as my last defense against a triple.:D

And please don't take that as an insult to triple-users. I've ridden a lot of triples, and appreciate them, too.

I'm glad to see Shimano expanding the range on the road and sport-touring stuff like this, props to SRAM for providing the necessary competition by doing it with Apex.

Shimano has always allowed you to do what SRAM Apex does. Granted before the "road compact" crank, to mount 50/34 rings would have required using a touring triple crank with no granny but the idea of an extra long cage derailler with wide range cassette that works with road shifters is nothing new. It's been possible for as long as Shimano has made integrated road shifters.

Shimano has always allowed you to do what SRAM Apex does.

But not with ten speed cassettes, and the ten speed road component era has been on us for a long time. Not until mtb cassettes went 10 speed and SRAM Apex, and now with the sort of in-between 30t largest cog like in the OP, there are even more 10 speed possibilities.

But not with ten speed cassettes, and the ten speed road component era has been on us for a long time. Not until mtb cassettes went 10 speed and SRAM Apex, and now with the sort of in-between 30t largest cog like in the OP, there are even more 10 speed possibilities.

Right, Shimano did sort of drop the ball when going to ten speed. We all knew it would eventually happen but SRAM beat them to it. However, throughout that period of lag, Shimano has always offered something comparable in range but with much less percentage gap between shifts using a road triple and 12/27 cassette. And the low end can be expanded far more than Apex simply by swapping out the granny too. I built such a bike back in 2005 with the newly introduced Ultegra 6600 shifters and a 52/42/30 crankset.

I refer to that cassette on my Campy-equipped bike as my last defense against a triple.:D

And please don't take that as an insult to triple-users. I've ridden a lot of triples, and appreciate them, too.
Not insulted in the least. :)

About two weeks ago, I noticed the 10sp Tiagra cassettes on the Harris site. A search for various 4600 series components showed that they were already available at numerous UK sites. The 4600 STI levers (£199) are designed like the earlier levers with external shift cables.

Interesting item. Shimano's web site still list Tiagra as 9-speed but the cassette page is nearly blank on details so maybe they are going to make it 10-speed for 2012.
The new components show up under tech docs (http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051921&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&bmUID=iDDUroI). It's interesting that Shimano is also marketing a new series of 10sp flat bar shifters and brake levers that are compatible with the road FDs and caliper brakes. Should open up another door for people looking at flat bar conversions.

About two weeks ago, I noticed the 10sp Tiagra cassettes on the Harris site. A search for various 4600 series components showed that they were already available at numerous UK sites. The 4600 STI levers (£199) are designed like the earlier levers with external shift cables.

The new components show up under tech docs (http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051921&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&bmUID=iDDUroI). It's interesting that Shimano is also marketing a new series of 10sp flat bar shifters and brake levers that are compatible with the road FDs and caliper brakes. Should open up another door for people looking at flat bar conversions.

You can also oogle some of the 4600 components by pulling up the page for the corresponding 4500 component, then changing the URL in your browser's address bar to 4600. e.g. http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/global_cycle/en/us/index/products/road/tiagra/product.-code-RD-4600-SS.-type-.rd_road.html

I'm running similar gearing on one of bike with a 52/42/26 triple and a 12x27 10-speed. My problem with the 12x30 is that you lose the 16T cog which I find extremely useful and the 26x27 low is plenty for me for anything but loaded touring. Actually the 12T is pretty much a waste for me with the 52T big ring and i wish Shimano made a 13x30 cassette which would allow the 16T to remain.

I agree, the 16t is nice, but the gearing with the 12-30 & 50,39 & 26t triple provides a close set of gears and MTB like 26 X 30. See below;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/Bike2triples.png

I'm also going to keep an 11-23 cassette for shorter or flatter routes that don't require such a wide range. the 11-23t will provide both a 11t & a 16t cog for faster routes.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/image.png

We have compacts 50/34 with 34t max rear cogs. WTF more 10 speed gearing do you need people? Really!

We have compacts 50/34 with 34t max rear cogs. WTF more 10 speed gearing do you need people? Really!
Welcome back. We haven't heard your smiling sarcasm for some time. :)

My problem with a compact crank and a very wide range cassette is that to get the low gear you leave huge holes in the intermediate steps. The "complexity" of a triple is nowhere near the sacrifice that giving up all those intermediate cogs is.

Welcome back. We haven't heard your smiling sarcasm for some time. :)

+1

My problem with a compact crank and a very wide range cassette is that to get the low gear you leave huge holes in the intermediate steps. The "complexity" of a triple is nowhere near the sacrifice that giving up all those intermediate cogs is.

+1;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/BikeApexvTriple12-30.png

^^On my "Shimapex" setup I described, I'm actually using a 12-32 10sp SRAM cassette (1070), and it does have a 14t cog; it would bother me if I didn't have that cog. Your chart shows a big jump where the 14t cog would be on the compact double setup with 11 x 32 ten speed cassette. Again, it's all about the individual. I rarely use the 50-12 (highest gear) on my setup, for example, and certainly don't need the kind of gear inches on the top end that your chart shows on both the double and triple setups.

^^On my "Shimapex" setup I described, I'm actually using a 12-32 10sp SRAM cassette (1070), and it does have a 14t cog; it would bother me if I didn't have that cog. Your chart shows a big jump where the 14t cog would be on the compact double setup with 11 x 32 ten speed cassette. Again, it's all about the individual. I rarely use the 50-12 (highest gear) on my setup for example, and certainly don't need the kind of gear inches on the top end that your chart shows on both the double and triple setups.

Except for the few true-Elite level cyclist, I don't think that many cyclist use the big (50t or larger) chain-ring with the smaller cogs, unless gravity is assisting. My chart compares a common Apex drivetrain with a common Shimano triple road drivetrain.

I keep two bikes, one Sports/CX model with a 50, 39, & 26t triple and a race-level road-bike with a 50 & 39t standard double. I also keep two identical & interchangeable wheel sets and exchange between the two bikes. Soon, I'll have a 12-30t cassette on one rear wheel and an 11-23 on the other. This will provide 4 gearing combinations.

On both bikes, I use the 39t chain-ring and the 5 smallest cogs for 70% of my riding, I’m a spinner and will keep a 100 rpm cadence. The 50t chain-ring on both bikes is low enough for a few faster moments on flatter routes, but not often. The 11-23t cassette and the 39t chain-ring is all I need for flatter century rides close to home in northern Illinois.

The 12-30t cassette and 50 & 39t crank-set will be a great hilly century ride drivetrain on the road bike, and gives me the range of a compact with a 12-25t cassette. The 11-23t cassette and 50 & 39t crank-set is a great group ride drivetrain.

The 50, 39, & 26t Crank-set might use the 11-23t cassette on a few flat 200k rides that feature a few steep hills. The 50, 39, & 26t Crank-set will use the 12-30t cassette on solo & unsupported century rides that feature numerous steep hills. This bike needs to carry food & water for 5 hours and needs deeper gears than the road bike. I'll be able to climb a 20% hill while maintaining a smooth 70 rpm cadence. That's a leg saver on a long ride. On moderate climbs I'll stay with the 39t chainring and should have little strain on a 5% grade. The 39t chainring is king.

Ok so does anyone know what this means for 9 speeds? I'm currently trying to figure out whether I should upgrade my bike to 9 or 10 speed, and I was leaning towards 9 (wanted a Tiagra 12-27 cassette, but that seems impossible to actually find, so I was thinking of possibly getting a 12-23 and swapping it out with a Deore 11-32 when going touring), but if it's going to get harder to find 9 speed cassettes, maybe I should just go for 10?

Compacts don't have to be 50/34. When I get around to buying a compact it will be a 50/36 to go with a 12-25 or 12-26 cassette. If I lived in the mountains I'd get a triple. I see too many people on 50/34 compacts riding cross-chained with the chain dragging on the derailleur or on the side of the 50. Rattle-rattle-rattle crunch.

Compacts don't have to be 50/34. When I get around to buying a compact it will be a 50/36 to go with a 12-25 or 12-26 cassette. If I lived in the mountains I'd get a triple. I see too many people on 50/34 compacts riding cross-chained with the chain dragging on the derailleur or on the side of the 50. Rattle-rattle-rattle crunch.
When I kept a bike in Florida, it had a 52/42 double and a 13x21 7-speed cassette and it was all I ever needed. However, I only visit Fl occasionally and, as my forum name suggests, the rest of the time I have to deal with HILLS. Some are modest and some horrendous and I want gears for all of them. Therefore, my love affair with triple cranks.

On both bikes, I use the 39t chain-ring and the 5 smallest cogs for 70% of my riding, I’m a spinner and will keep a 100 rpm cadence.

Sounds like you ride at very similar speeds to me. However, that you use the 5 smallest cogs on your cassette is the reason why I've tried so hard to continue to use a 42 tooth middle ring in these days of the 39T middle ring. It keeps me out of those little cogs a bit more than a 39T would, extending the life of my cassettes. Of course, I could shift up to the 52 more frequently but by the time I reach those speeds I'm usually content with just coasting, at least on my commute. I spin out in the 42/12 combo at about 35mph.

Ok so does anyone know what this means for 9 speeds? I'm currently trying to figure out whether I should upgrade my bike to 9 or 10 speed, and I was leaning towards 9 (wanted a Tiagra 12-27 cassette, but that seems impossible to actually find, so I was thinking of possibly getting a 12-23 and swapping it out with a Deore 11-32 when going touring), but if it's going to get harder to find 9 speed cassettes, maybe I should just go for 10?

Ultegra 6500 9 speed 12-27 cassettes are still readily available, if a bit expensive: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=1094&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US

Buy two and by the time you need more (assuming you rotate your chains and maximize cassette life) 10 speed stuff will be old news too. Keep in mind that 12-27 10 speed cassettes are getting harder to find too. All of Shimano's new groupsets use 11-28 cassettes. You'll need to look for 105 5600 or Ultegra 6600 to find a 12-27. Plan to spend more than you would for the 9 speed version.

Ultegra 6500 9 speed 12-27 cassettes are still readily available, if a bit expensive: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=1094&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US

Buy two and by the time you need more (assuming you rotate your chains and maximize cassette life) 10 speed stuff will be old news too. Keep in mind that 12-27 10 speed cassettes are getting harder to find too. All of Shimano's new groupsets use 11-28 cassettes. You'll need to look for 105 5600 or Ultegra 6600 to find a 12-27. Plan to spend more than you would for the 9 speed version.

You can also get the HG-50 in a 12-27. It's going to be heavier, but very affordable: http://aebike.com/product/shimano-hg-50-9spd-12-27t-cassette-sku-fw8425-qc30.htm

Ultegra 6500 9 speed 12-27 cassettes are still readily available, if a bit expensive: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=1094&utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=Google-Products-US

Buy two and by the time you need more (assuming you rotate your chains and maximize cassette life) 10 speed stuff will be old news too. Keep in mind that 12-27 10 speed cassettes are getting harder to find too. All of Shimano's new groupsets use 11-28 cassettes. You'll need to look for 105 5600 or Ultegra 6600 to find a 12-27. Plan to spend more than you would for the 9 speed version.

So basically, if I go 9 speed I should be prepared to pay more. The primary reason for going 9 in my book was to save a few dollars over 10 speed though... so in the long run wouldn't just going to 10 make more sense?

So basically, if I go 9 speed I should be prepared to pay more. The primary reason for going 9 in my book was to save a few dollars over 10 speed though... so in the long run wouldn't just going to 10 make more sense?

IMO, yes.

I've shopped 5600 105 series 10 speed and can find everything I need at Tiagra prices.

Edit: 10 speed chains are more $$ than 9 speed and the same with cassettes. I can find new 10 speed chains for $30 to $40, Cassettes are $40 to $60. But 10 speed and 9 speed cranksets are about the same price: $60 for a standard double to $110 for a compact double. Brifters $170 to $200 for 9 or 10 speed. Derailleurs are about the same price for 9 or 10 speed also.

So basically, if I go 9 speed I should be prepared to pay more. The primary reason for going 9 in my book was to save a few dollars over 10 speed though... so in the long run wouldn't just going to 10 make more sense?

No, I said that the 10 speed (5600/6600) 12-27 cassettes were more expensive, considerably so if you go with mechBgon's HG-50 cassette (that I never knew existed, Thanks Mech!). 5700/6700 groups don't even offer a 12-27. 9 speed chains are dirt cheap and so are 9 speed MTB cassettes if you ever wanted more low gears. The tough part with 9 speed these days is finding higher end brake/shift levers. I bought my Ultegra 6500 levers in 2008 and that's about the last time I saw them available at a retail store. If you don't mind buying used, you can find some great deals but there's always a risk associated with used brifters.

Barrettscv points out that if you shop around enough and are willing to wait for sales, sometimes you can find 10 speed stuff at great prices. UK-based stores are often great sources for such deals.

. I bought my Ultegra 6500 levers in 2008 and that's about the last time I saw them available at a retail store. If you don't mind buying used, you can find some great deals but there's always a risk associated with used brifters.

Barrettscv points out that if you shop around enough and are willing to wait for sales, sometimes you can find 10 speed stuff at great prices. UK-based stores are often great sources for such deals.
Now that new 9-speed brifters are hard to find new and used ones are always a gamble there is still a way to maintain a 9-speed drivetrain but with 10-speed brifters; a Jtek Shiftmate. http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

A #2 Shiftmate will let you use 10-speed Shimano brifters with a 9-speed Shimano cassette and rear derailleur. Also, interestingl enough, it will let you use 10-speed Campy Ergo brifters with otherwise all-Shimano 9-speed components and Campy's 10-speed brifters tend to be less expensive than Shimanos and are rebuildable.

I had a bike with Campy 10-speed Ergo brifters and a Shimano 9-speed cassette and rear derailleur coupled with a Shiftmate for thousands of miles and it shifted beautifully.

If anyone gets desparate for a 9sp brifter, I think I know an LBS *cough* that has some NOS Dura-Ace, packaged individually L & R. Can't remember if the lefts are doubles or triples, I should probably check.

I was debating the 9sp-versus-10sp question for my Surly Troll mountain/commuter/winter build. I ended up going 9 but it was a complex question to nail down, juggling replacement costs of chains and cassettes, types of shifters, trekking v. MTB gearing... *sigh*. So it'll be 26-36-48 Deore with probably an 11-32 SRAM PG950 and a PC-951 chain. We should have a support group for People Traumatized By Drivetrain Decisions ;)

We should have a support group for People Traumatized By Drivetrain Decisions ;)

Agreed. The worst part about it is that you'll continue to second guess your decision every time you ride or service that bike. I find myself doing it constantly. I need threads like this where I can spout off about how perfect my decision was to help myself go on for another day :)