Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - 2012 Shimano Tiagra 12-30 ten speed cassette

Shimano has gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra.

I noticed this 12-30 ten speed cassette on the Harris website: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html#10

http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051921&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&bmUID=iDDUroI

you can use a 34 on Ultegra. The only trick is to get a cassette. SRAM works. You have to screw the limit screw back a little

you can use a 34 on Ultegra. The only trick is to get a cassette. SRAM works. You have to screw the limit screw back a little

I've used a 11-32 on an Ultegra GS. I'm not sure that a 34 would work an many road bikes, the length of the hanger is part of the issue. A 30 will work with all road derailleurs and frames without concern.

I also like the spacing of the 12-30. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against. a MTB cassette, like a 11-34, has even larger jumps between the gears.

I'm running a 50, 39 & 26 triple with a 12-27t cassette on my CX/commuter bike/do-it-all bike. The 12-30t cassette & 50, 39 & 26 triple should give me a huge range without the need for a MTB rear derailleur. I'm replacing a worn chain & cassette soon, timing could not be better.

I also like the spacing of the 12-30. The Apex 11-32 has a wider range, but you lose the 14T cog. The jumps in cadence can get noticed with the Apex 11-32, especially on flat routes with some wind to push against. a MTB cassette, like a 11-34, has even larger jumps between the gears.

You could always use SRAM's 12-32, which is 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 32. IMO, if you don't need the 11T, the 12-32 has really nice spacing.

I probably should have said I'm running the current long cage Ultegra RD with a 32 and the person that told me it would work is running a 34. I have a 34/50 on the front. Many miles on this combo.

You could always use SRAM's 12-32, which is 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 32. IMO, if you don't need the 11T, the 12-32 has really nice spacing.

It's interesting, they keep the 16t cog and omit the 28t that would usually be found between 24 & 32. My dream cassette would also include the 16t and would include: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 29.

With 32t cog you start to exceed the practical chain-wrap capacity of a "GS" long cage road RD if your running a road triple like a 52, 39 & 30t or a 50, 39 & 26 like I use.

Several of Specialized's 2012 bikes will be equipped with the new 12-30 10-speed cassette, and today I got to build the first of these that just came into our shop. The cassette shifted nicely and the Tiagra rear derailleur only had it's b-screw turned in about 1/4 or 1/3 of the way and easily cleared the 30-tooth cog - you could run a 32-tooth cog without any trouble, maybe even bigger.

As mentioned above, the spacing on the 12-30 is very appealing; it is identical to Shimano's 12-27 10-speed cassettes except that the 16 tooth cog has been omitted and replaced with the 30.

The bike I built was the new 2012 Specialized TriCross Expert, which is an awesome bike. It has front and rear disc brakes (Avid BB5's), mounting points for front and rear mudguards and racks (although the disc brakes might get in the way a bit for many rack models because they did not put the rear disc on the chainstay). Triple road crank (30-39-50) with 12-30 cassette (all Tiagra). It's a dark grey/silver finish with small yellow paint highlights, and lots of gold bling to finish it off (stem faceplate, stem cap, water bottle bolts, seat clamp, etc.) It's a very different style to what most other major bike manufacturers are making - I hope we sell lots of them.

Regarding the SRAM 12-32 cassette, I was reading about this somewhere else recently. Although SRAM's official website claims that the biggest two cogs are 24-32, other people have reported when looking at an actual example that this is not the case, and the spacing is much more sensible.

Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?

Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?

I should have mine next week. I'll put it on a postal scale.

http://road.cc/content/news/31511-shimano-launch-tiagra-10-speed-new-cyclo-cross-components-and-ultegra-colour-2012

Apparently the wider cassette is to compete against Apex.

And as per usual, a lot of the 2012 Tiagra is previous 105 tech.

I charted a Shimano Triple with the 12-30 ten speed cassette v. the Sram Apex compact double with the 11-32 cassette. Not only is the gap between the 13 and 15t avoided, but the 39t chainring provides an ideal range for flatter routes;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/BikeApexvTriple12-30.png

...A 30 will work with all road derailleurs and frames without concern...

This intrigues me. Are you speculating a SRAM short cage could be used, or just referring to Shimano dérailleurs?


...My dream cassette would also include the 16t and would include: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 24, 29...
We share the same dream.

This intrigues me. Are you speculating a SRAM short cage could be used, or just referring to Shimano dérailleurs?

Using a 30t cog should not be a problem with Sram short cage rear derailleurs. The rated max cog capacity is 28, but a safety factor exists and exceeding the max capacity by two teeth should not be a problem.

I’ve exceeded the 27t max cog nominal capacity of Shimano by 5 teeth.

If you are using an 11-28, you can consider using the same length chain, just be sure the chain has some slack when in the big-big combination. If you are using a smaller range cassette, a new & longer chain might be needed. If the chain is towards the end of its life, this is a good time for a new chain.

I put together a cassette, based on some comments Barrettscv made some months ago, with a lowest cog of 30 teeth. I would seldom need that gear but I'm very glad it is there. I tried the gear out during a ride with a very steep if short hill - maybe 15 to 18%. It is good to know I can climb anything I'm likely to encounter hereabouts, even with 25 lbs. loaded on the bike.

I should have mine next week. I'll put it on a postal scale.

I was half joking, but it would be nice to know. I'm more interested to hear how well it functions. I would be pairing this cassette with a 6700 short cage, which I understand should work fine.

I was half joking, but it would be nice to know. I'm more interested to hear how well it functions. I would be pairing this cassette with a 6700 short cage, which I understand should work fine.

Shifting performance should pretty much match most other Shimano cassettes because they use basically the same cog shaping patterns on them all. The main thing that changes between Shimano's different levels of cassettes is weight - the higher end cassettes are built using an alloy spider instead of solid steel cogs, and the top end models get some titanium cogs. Even so, a 12-30 cassette, with many 2 and 3 tooth jumps between gears, is never going to shift quite as smoothly as something like a 12-21 cassette that has 1-tooth differences all the way through, but I'm sure you won't find another cassette with such a large range that shifts any better.

When setting up the new bike with the Tiagra 12-30 cassette I barely had to do any adjustment to it to make it work well on the stand, and then on the brief test ride it performed flawlessly. Obviously, this was not a particularly long-term or rigorous test, but my first impressions were very positive.

It certainly would be nice if Shimano were to launch a similar 105-level cassette that had an alloy spider to reduce the weight considerably. I've heard rumors that Shimano will be releasing an extra version of the 105 rear derailleur that can officially handle a 30-tooth cog (although, unofficially, most already can), so I'm hoping that they'll release a corresponding 105-level cassette. I'm going to try to find someone at Eurobike next week who can tell me exactly what the plan is.

wow, that's great. the triple on my old bike was 52/40/30 with a 12-26. now i have a 50/34 with 12-25. using this cassette would give me a lower granny than i had on the triple. i was wondering how i would do in the mountains, there were some grinds where i could barely make it with the triple. but with this cassette on the lighter bike it would be lovely. just not sure that my RD can cope. Ultegra RD6600, what do you guys think? five more teeth might be too many.

wow, that's great. the triple on my old bike was 52/40/30 with a 12-26. now i have a 50/34 with 12-25. using this cassette would give me a lower granny than i had on the triple. i was wondering how i would do in the mountains, there were some grinds where i could barely make it with the triple. but with this cassette on the lighter bike it would be lovely. just not sure that my RD can cope. Ultegra RD6600, what do you guys think? five more teeth might be too many.

Install a new & longer chain and adjust the B screw and enjoy.

Sounds all fine and dandy, but how much does it weigh?

At 340 grams, it's no lightweight. It's heavier than a Sram 11-32 PG-1050 by 40 grams, and heavier than an Ultegra 11-28 by 110 grams.

I charted a Shimano Triple with the 12-30 ten speed cassette v. the Sram Apex compact double with the 11-32 cassette. Not only is the gap between the 13 and 15t avoided, but the 39t chainring provides an ideal range for flatter routes;


That's exactly why I prefer triples over compact doubles. 34 ring is too low to stay in all the time, 50 is too high, and both require more cross-chaining than a 39. At least at the speeds and terrains I ride.

I think I could probably live with just a single 39 ring if I had 11-32 or -34 in the rear, because I'm in the 39 95% of the time with a 12-27.

I just picked up the 2012 Shimano dealer catalogue at Eurobike and got some more details on the specs of this cassette.

First, official Shimano weight for the Tiagra 12-30 cassette is 329 grams. For comparison, an Ultegra 11-28 cassette is officially 242 grams, making the weight cost of the 30 tooth cassette be about 87 grams (not 110 grams as stated above). Unfortunately, there is no lighter-weight 105-level version of this cassette listed.

As well as the new Tiagra rear derailleur being rated as being able to handle a largest cog of 30 teeth, there is a new version of the 105 rear derailleur, which is designated as RD-5700-A, which can also officially handle the 30-tooth cog (the previous version of the 105 derailleur is the RD-5700, which could only officially handle a 28-tooth cog). Of course, these limits are normally conservative, so it is very likely that the new Tiagra and 105 rear derailleurs will also work fine with a 32-tooth large cog, so there is no need to use a "9-speed" MTB rear derailleur anymore.

I'm wondering if Shimano is going to do a trickle up effect and offer the larger cogged cassettes in a lighter 105 (or ultegra)version.
I had the chance to compare the tiagra 10 cassette against my 11-28 and the weight penalty seems substantial
(I should mention I the difference in weight felt was via holding each cassette not factually weighing one against the other)
I run the 50/34 thru an 11-28 on the rear of my Motobecane IF. I'd love to swap out the darn 11t and substitute a 30t at the other end but the LBS said the tiagra 30t won't work on the ultegra 6700 series cassette (something to do with the offset {??)on the cog itsself.
They wern't exactly sure the 6700 series SS would handle the 30t even tweaked. (anyone have first hand knowledge on this?)
I also saw a good many of the new CF models comming with a long cage 105 derailleur to handle the 30 or 32
cog setup (see em both on compact double setups and triple setups)
LBS checked with Shimano and the long cage 105 wasn't available..
Anyone know about these?

I really don't think your LBS knows what they are talking about. Shimano puts out a lot of what I consider bad information so they don't have to support weird combinations, but they probably know that those combinations work. I would still recommend going with a long cage Shimano road derailleur and a SRAM cassette so you can get 32 or 34.

Personally I like the 12-25 cassette the best cause there's less jumps in cadence that's why my Road bike/ trainer wheel has them. I don't like the 11-28 I use on my LD bike. I feel the wider range cassettes like 11-34s and the likes are not very well spaced, most people buying these are looking for a lower gearing (for climbs) but these cassettes only give a few lower gears and that too very widely spaced that they actually prove to be inefficient when climbing you're either a touch or two above the gear/cadence you want or below due to the wide spacing.

Ideally lower gearing (touring) cassettes should have closer spacing at the back and wider spacing front or 2teeth spacing; like so:- 14(or13)-15-17-19-21-23-26-28-32-34.

The thread seems to jump allover on this one but I've seen the 12-30 tiagra coupled with the 105 long cage on several lower priced Trek Madones (both compact double and triple setups)recently.
I switched to the 6700 and the 11-28 today.(bike came with the 6600 series derailleurs,brifters and 11-25 cassette)
I run a FSA Team Issue 50/34 crankset.
Had I my druthers I'd prefer a close geared 8speed with two larger bailouts to complete the 10spd setup.
(ie 11 12 13 14 16 18 20 22 26 30)
Sence the 11-26 was a cobbled 12-26 to begin with I'm figuring it's only a matter of time before specialty Shimano cassettes are available or folks are ordering the parts and building them themselves.

My interest in this post is in the comments on the 6700 rear being able to be tweaked 9and stay in tune) to accept the 30t cog.
Hopefully, the tiagra/105 setups will do a trickle up effect and become available in the lighter 105/6700 cassetes (because I did get to compare a 12-28 tiagra and a 11-28 ultegra and the weight penalty is noticible.)

My interest in this post is in the comments on the 6700 rear being able to be tweaked 9and stay in tune) to accept the 30t cog.
Hopefully, the tiagra/105 setups will do a trickle up effect and become available in the lighter 105/6700 cassetes (because I did get to compare a 12-28 tiagra and a 11-28 ultegra and the weight penalty is noticible.)

I'll be using the Tiagra 12-30 Cassette with the Shimano RD-6703 GS rear derailleur on my newer bike and the Shimano RD-6603 GS rear derailleur on my older bike. I'm sure both will be fine with the 12-30 cassette, but will report any surprises.

if I could get the shift levers for a reasonable price, I might switch

I took a 20 mile ride with the new 12-30 cassette and the well-worn RD-6603 triple rear derailleur and the 50, 39 & 26t 105 triple crankshaft (5603). It passed the test ride with flying colors, shifting up & down under load with no issues. The Big-Big combination worked OK, I'm not planning on using that combination deliberately. The small-small also functioned well enough under test conditions, but that's another un-needed combination.

The only steep hill in my area is a beach access road, normally restricted to official vehicle traffic and pedestrians. I found the 26T chain-ring & 30t cog allowed climbing a 15% grade at about 75 rpm, in the 5 to 6 mph range, while seated. It felt easy and relaxed. I should be able to climb those 6% average grade ascends, which also include short 15% sections, without standing or any special technique.

When using the 50 and 39t chain-rings, I have the range provided by most compact cranks drivetrains. The 39t middle chain-ring is useful up to 23 mph and can be used on flatter route without much need for the 50t and without ever dropping down to the 26t.

Just what I wanted.

Thanks for the ride report.

I've been thinking about making a tuned version of this cassette by taking an Ultegra 12-27 cassette, removing the 16-tooth cog, and putting the 30-tooth cog from the Tiagra 12-30 at the back. I have a number of different-sized spacers to try putting between the 27 and 30-tooth cogs. It should work, and should be a bit lighter than the full Tiagra 12-30, but hopefully the shifting will still be smooth. I'll report back once I've got all the bits together that I need and have a chance to take it for a test ride.

Switching the tiagra 30t on to an ultegra cassette.
Be very interested in hearing how this goes.

Someone retorted about LBS not knowing what they were talking about.
I tend to chalk it up to most LBS's not wanting to bother with anything that isn't 'out of the box and on to the bike'
Someone mentioned liability issues..God help us.
I see that even Harris is no longer offering custom built cassettes
Sence I'm running the ss series rear derailleur (the GS being for triples ?) I'd definitely like to steer clear of daily tweaking in order to get a reliable ride in.
Thanks for all the insights tho.
Extreemly valuable!

Shimano has gone ten speed on the 2012 Tiagra.



Ugh, this is one step closer to making 8 speed cassettes harder to come by. Slow to adapt, perhaps, but I prefer the sturdier chains that you can use that last longer. Also, at this point what is available is cheaper than all get up.

I'll add that the Shimano Ultegra GS (long arm-road) rear derailleur has huge chain wrap and cog size capacity that is much greater than stated on the factory specification sheet.

Using a 50, 39 & 26 Crankset with the 12-30 cassette. The chain allows use of the big-big combination with a enough safety margin and also fit the small-small combination without any slack in the chain. I'm not planning on using those combinations, but it's safe to go there.

The chain-wrap limit of the Tiagra/105/Ultegra GS, according to Shimano, is 37. I'm operating safely, with every gear combination, using a chain-wrap value of 42. It is also possible to exceed the 27t Cog size capacity and use a 32t.

This may not be possible on all bikes, YMMV.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/001.jpg

I just ordered this cassette for my bike with 105 shortcage compact. 105 rd has a 33t capacity but cassette will give me 34, research on the net states that shimano is very generous on specs. Can anyone confirm if they tried 12-30 with a shortcage and it works.

I just ordered this cassette for my bike with 105 shortcage compact. 105 rd has a 33t capacity but cassette will give me 34, research on the net states that shimano is very generous on specs. Can anyone confirm if they tried 12-30 with a shortcage and it works.

What crankset are you using with the 12-30 cassette?

Compact FSA gossamer (spelling). I should have gotten a triple being a beginner, legs not strong enough for the hard hills.

Compact FSA gossamer (spelling). I should have gotten a triple being a beginner, legs not strong enough for the hard hills.

You might need a road GS derailleur like an Ultegra.

I installed mine last week and went for a 103 mile ride yesterday. The new cassette worked great on my 2007 Lemond Zurich with Ultegra RD, although I did have to run the B screw all the way to the head.

Tuning the Tiagra 12-30 10-Speed Cassette - Saving 83 Grams

I just returned from a successful 50 km test ride with my tuned 12-30 cassette.

My Tiagra 12-30 10-speed cassette weighed 327 grams, including lockring. This seemed pretty heavy to me, so I decided to try combining it with a Shimano 12-27 cassette that used aluminum carriers for the larger cogs. I had planned to get an Ultegra model, but learned that Shimano does not make a 12-27 cassette in the Ultegra 6700 group, but they do still sell a 105 and a Dura Ace model. The shop I work in had a 12-27 Dura Ace 7900 in stock that a customer had ordered but never picked up, so I bought that at cost.

The five largest cogs on the Dura Ace cassette are titanium and are mounted on aluminum carriers, and so it weighs only 190 grams including lockring. I removed the 16 tooth cog from the DA cassette and the corresponding spacer. The cogs on the Tiagra 12-30 are riveted together, so I had to saw through the rivets to separate the 30 tooth cog from the rest. I then put this behind the Dura Ace cassette and played around with a few different spacers until I got the right distance between the 27 and 30 tooth cogs. This hybrid cassette weighs 244 grams including lockring, which is 83 grams less than the full Tiagra version.

The tuned cassette shifted fine on the work-stand, and on my test ride it was only when shifting down from the 15- to the 17-tooth cog that it was a little sluggish and sometimes required a little extra nudge on the shifter. Shifting up from the 17 to the 15 was no problem, and the shift up and down between the 27 and 30 cogs worked flawlessly. So, if you want flawless shifting, then stick with the regular Tiagra cassette. If you're happy with only having 17 of the possible 18 shifts work flawlessly, with the other one a little sluggish, in exchange for a 83 gram weight saving then go for a tuned cassette. The Tiagra cassette is so cheap that I don't feel that I wasted any money on it to only use the 30-tooth cog, plus I'll probably find a use for some of the other cogs on other custom cassettes anyway.

BTW, I wouldn't recommend using a custom cassette like mine if your wheel has an aluminum freehub body. The loose 30-tooth cog could easily dig into a soft aluminum body when not riveted to other cogs or on a carrier. Fortunately, the hub I'm using it on is a Shimano model, so I don't have to worry about this, and I've previously used an entire cassette of loose cogs on this hub for a few thousand kms without having any marking on the body.

One more thing to note, the Tiagra cassette comes with a 14 gram steel lockring. Just switching this to an aluminum lockring (which are available separately, or you may have an extra one from an old cassette) can save about 8 grams (just make sure the lockring is designed for a 12-tooth smallest cog, and not an 11-tooth).

Personally I like the 12-25 cassette the best cause there's less jumps in cadence that's why my Road bike/ trainer wheel has them. I don't like the 11-28 I use on my LD bike. I feel the wider range cassettes like 11-34s and the likes are not very well spaced, most people buying these are looking for a lower gearing (for climbs) but these cassettes only give a few lower gears and that too very widely spaced that they actually prove to be inefficient when climbing you're either a touch or two above the gear/cadence you want or below due to the wide spacing.

Ideally lower gearing (touring) cassettes should have closer spacing at the back and wider spacing front or 2teeth spacing; like so:- 14(or13)-15-17-19-21-23-26-28-32-34.

I would kill for a cassette like that. Any cogs I lose up front can easily be made up by going with a larger big chainring. But I always find myself wanting to go with an 11-34 because I absolutely need the lower gears. Hate the spacing.

Anyone using IRD Cassettes? They have several wide-range cassettes with what seem to be more "useful" cog combinations than the typical Shimano offerings.

http://www.interlocracing.com/cassbreakdown.html

Cheers,

tcpasley

Reduce, Reuse, Rebicycle

I've used an IRC 12-28 10-speed Shimano cassette quite a lot. The cog size combination is great, and the weight is pretty good. It doesn't shift quite as well as Shimano - you need to have the derailleur dialled in just right and not have too much friction in the cable run.

That IRD 12-28 looks ideal - the 12-30 looks even better. I'm running 9-speed setups, and I don't like 4t differences between the bigger cogs. I wish their 9sp 12-30 was as evenly spaced as their 10sp version.

tcpasley

Reduce, Reuse, Rebicycle

I have also just installed the Tiagra 12-30T. The rest is 105, including; 50-39-30 Triple and a long cage RD. All I had to do was turn the B screw all the IN, and make a slight adjustment to the index shifting and it was good to go. I didn't even need to replace the chain, which is good as it still had some life left in it!

The Shimano recommended max on the RD is 28, but as has been written elsewhere, Shimano engineer in a little extra so the 30 is no problem. My opinion is it wouldn't take a 32 as is!

The recommended max chain wrap is 37, whereas this set-up has it at 38. Again no problem for me.

Up the local hill I could hold a higher cadence and felt more comfortable overall.

Good luck!

I just installed the Tiagra 12-30 cassette on my bike. I have a 2009 Trek Madone 6.9 frame that I built up with a full Ultegra 6700 groupset and Dura-Ace C24 wheels last year. I had an 11-28 Utegra cassette, but found the 11 to be worthless to me and several times would have liked the 30. It also moved the chain line over for the gears I use the most, like the 17 and 19.

My chain was already a bit short for the 11-28, and worn, so I installed a new chain with 2 extra links. No adjustment to the B screw on the rear derailleure. Both the big-big and small-small combos work perfectly. I have not ridden it outside yet as the weather has been too bad for this bike, but many trainer miles shows it to shift flawlessly. When Shimano releases higher level 12-30 cassettes, as I hope they will, I will move this one to my rain bike and install the new lighter one.

I know I am going to like this on long mountain climbs that get the steepest at the top!

The Shimano recommended max on the RD is 28, but as has been written elsewhere, Shimano engineer in a little extra so the 30 is no problem. My opinion is it wouldn't take a 32 as is!



It really depends on the bike and hanger. I've run an Apex 11-32 with a short cage Ultegra RD on my Cannondale Six13 without any problems.

Tuning the Tiagra 12-30 10-Speed Cassette - Saving 83 Grams

...snip

Wow. While I'm in favor of switching to the metric system, sometimes I think it's good for us in the US to see weights in pounds rather than grams so as not to inflate our perspective of what something weighs... or how much weight has been save.

All that experimentation to save 0.18 pounds.

So what are the tooth differences on a Rival RD with a compact crank? I'm renting a bike, and thinking about replacing the 12-25 with either the 12-30, or a 12-32. Would it work with a new chain?

Shimano and SRAM cassettes share the same spacing, and a Rival short cage will work with the Tiagra 12-30. If you had set chain length for 12T rear cog and 34T front ring at the clearance shown in post #5 here (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/772972-Review-Tiagra-4600-12-30-10-speed-cassette?p=13457613&highlight=#post13457613), the same chain can be used. Any shorter and another link will be needed to avoid stressing a short cage in a big-big combo.

Thanks, that's perfect. I may throw another chain in just in case. And try to stay off of the big-big on general principles.

Wow. While I'm in favor of switching to the metric system, sometimes I think it's good for us in the US to see weights in pounds rather than grams so as not to inflate our perspective of what something weighs... or how much weight has been save.

All that experimentation to save 0.18 pounds.

Or almost 3 ounces (2.93oz.).
Still every ounce adds up, and since we are talking about climbing gears maybe it does count?