Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Running vs Jogging

Just wondering if other clydes/athenas are having the same problem as me?

I find that when jogging i run out of "legs" before i run out of "wind", but when biking i run out of "wind" before i run out of "leg". my assumption is that i would have the same affect for both activities. i guess i was wrong.

Running is high impact. Biking is no impact. Being relatively heavy makes it worse.

Are your running shoes intended for a heavy runner?

Funny - I'm just the opposite. I get winded more easily running. I don't get winded so much on the bike, but even though I can still pedal, I lose speed as my legs get tired. Jogging, I can maintain my pace until my lungs explode or my knees give out. Whichever comes first.

running is load bearing and in a lot of ways like mashing a big gear on a bike. but on a bike it's easy to just shift to an easier gear and take the pain away. what you report is totally normal. in terms of burning calories there is nothing better than running but it's a risk reward proposition. when I run , I can eat whatever i want and still lose weight. I can't do that on the bike. But that is just me, you may be different

Funny - I'm just the opposite. I get winded more easily running. I don't get winded so much on the bike, but even though I can still pedal, I lose speed as my legs get tired. Jogging, I can maintain my pace until my lungs explode or my knees give out. Whichever comes first.

Having knee problems from running is not normal. Stop now and get that looked at. It may be as simple as weak quads(most common) or the wrong shoes.

in terms of burning calories there is nothing better than running but it's a risk reward proposition. when I run , I can eat whatever i want and still lose weight. I can't do that on the bike. But that is just me, you may be different

Calorie burn is a mixed bag. Comparing say an hour's worth of effort, running wins out. However, cycling has the potential for longer time periods than running thus burning more.

And to offset that, you negate some of cycling's advantage by the fact that consuming calories on the bike is far easier.

very true you get way more bang for the buck with running and in less time, it just i dont like running and gets boring for me.

my shoes ARE running specific. when i ran 2-3 years ago, when i started i got bad shin splints then got nike free running shoes. that forced my bad running form to correct itself and cured the splints. a good running store can get you the right shoes for your mechanics and will do wonders. that said i am a bit heavy for the nike free's at this time.

also i find when i bike my heart rate is higher than when i run? i would think that also would be the opposite.

The problem with the bike for me, as far as exercise goes, is that when I start feeling tired (and I don't ride fast, so I don't have to be going very fast for very long for that to happen) I just drop gears and keep moving (but at this point I'm probably not "working out" so much).

With jogging you can't switch it off (assuming that you don't just decide to walk), so I do jogging for exercise, cycling for commuting and leisure.

also i find when i bike my heart rate is higher than when i run? i would think that also would be the opposite.

In general, higher max HR are seen in runners due to the weight bearing nature of the sport. My running max was 189, cycling 183.
Most likely is fatigue built up fast enough that you never felt like running hard enough to get a true max and /or you're more a natural cyclist than runner and it's easier to push yourself on the bike.

I was absolutely a natural runner(not fast, though) and a mediocre cyclist.

Having knee problems from running is not normal. Stop now and get that looked at. It may be as simple as weak quads(most common) or the wrong shoes.

For a 270 pound guy who used to be over 430 pounds, knee pain is a fact of life. Trust me - it's not weak quads.

For a 270 pound guy who used to be over 430 pounds, knee pain is a fact of life. Trust me - it's not weak quads.

They may be strong enough to support your weight but not have enough reserve to stabilize the knee during running.

When I was running in college at 135 lbs, I could squat 350 lbs.

And again, it may be your shoes.

Having knee problems from running is not normal. Stop now and get that looked at. It may be as simple as weak quads(most common) or the wrong shoes.

COMPLETELY FALSE. you can be 6'0" 250lbs and have 10% bodyfat with legs built like tree trunks and your going to have knee problems eventually from running because you just don't have enough cartilage in the joint to handle that much weight pounding into the ground over and over and over again. You never see 60 year old nfl wide recievers being crippled, you see all the linemen and linebackers in wheelchairs and with knee replacements for this reason.

Theoretically, yes, if you have good running form and don't have muscle imbalances you should be able to run safely but there is absolutely a point where weight is your enemy and generally speaking that point is roughly around 200lbs give or take depending on the persons height.

i find running a bad idea for heavier people. at my job there is a large scale built into the floor, as an experiment i showed one of my coworkers how much pressure running puts on your knees. i walked past the scale having my left foot contact the concrete floor and my right foot contact the scale. while walking, the scale read my body weight as my right foot contacted it. when i ran, the scale registered double my body weight. so as you run, each foot/leg is impacting the ground with twice the weight of your body, a good way to burn up your knees in my opinion.

jim: very interesting.

I do think perhaps running is something a heavier person should stay away from. Biking, walking and elipitcal for me. I am a big guy and ALWAYS on my feet since I am a chef and the knees do get bugging me after a while.

I thought from the subject line that this thread was going to be about running vs jogging.

Having knee problems from running is not normal. Stop now and get that looked at. It may be as simple as weak quads(most common) or the wrong shoes.

Wow. I know a bunch of runners, and the only ones without knee problems weigh 175 or less....

I'm with Craig, just when does jogging become running? Is there a certain speed cutover?

As for knee problems not being normal with runners, I would beg to differ. Knee injuries are the number 1 problem for athletes that do any kind or running, runners, soccer players, footballers etc. Injuries can be caused by many different things, including poor form, incorrect shoes, other musculoskeletal issues like IT band syndrome etc.

i find running a bad idea for heavier people. at my job there is a large scale built into the floor, as an experiment i showed one of my coworkers how much pressure running puts on your knees. i walked past the scale having my left foot contact the concrete floor and my right foot contact the scale. while walking, the scale read my body weight as my right foot contacted it. when i ran, the scale registered double my body weight. so as you run, each foot/leg is impacting the ground with twice the weight of your body, a good way to burn up your knees in my opinion.

Impact forces of 2-3 times body weight is normal. Seems to me the body has evolved around those forces.

jim: very interesting.

I do think perhaps running is something a heavier person should stay away from. Biking, walking and elipitcal for me. I am a big guy and ALWAYS on my feet since I am a chef and the knees do get bugging me after a while.


I'm with Craig, just when does jogging become running? Is there a certain speed cutover?

As for knee problems not being normal with runners, I would beg to differ. Knee injuries are the number 1 problem for athletes that do any kind or running, runners, soccer players, footballers etc. Injuries can be caused by many different things, including poor form, incorrect shoes, other musculoskeletal issues like IT band syndrome etc.

Football(American) players have enormous problems of all sorts after their career is over, can't blame running on the injuries caused by being tackled by 350 lb players.
Soccer players have to make many abrupt turns and stops, putting extra stress on the knees. Not the same as distance running.

Time Magazine article citing several studies on runners' knees. (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1948208,00.html)

I thought from the subject line that this thread was going to be about running vs jogging.


sorry, i really thought i typed Running vs. Biking for the subject.

Just wondering if other clydes/athenas are having the same problem as me?

I find that when jogging i run out of "legs" before i run out of "wind", but when biking i run out of "wind" before i run out of "leg". my assumption is that i would have the same affect for both activities. i guess i was wrong.

I am the same way. I can't seem to run out of legs biking, but maybe that has to due with my cadence varying so much because of riding SS. My lungs or just my entire body running out of gas happens long before my legs give out. 30 miles at a fast SS pace and I may be out of gas, but my legs feel relatively fresh.

I might consider jogging (or not) when I get my body weight down to a weight that would not be AS abusive on my joints as the 212 pounds they're supporting now. In short.... why jog/run? when walking is weight bearing enough, and cycling addresses the wind & cardio issue.

In short.... why jog/run? when walking is weight bearing enough, and cycling addresses the wind & cardio issue.

1. because of family/kid/work- i can get in a 30 minute run=hour 30 (maybe 2hours) on bike, plus more muscles involved running (different muscles too)

2. weather- on rainy flooding days i can run and would rather not deal with backed up sewers on the bike in he road.

3. garmin- gives me another use for my new garmin forerunner 305.

...why jog/run?...

..... and frankly, I was serious about possibly taking it up when gravity won't be so demanding on my joints. As a Correctional Officer, we frequently had to burst into a run/sprint (depending on our abilities) when alerted to an alarm somewhere within our area. Doing so DOES in fact involve different muscles, and if you didn't run to alarms daily (or on your own if you work in a sedantary position), the sudden burst of energy to muscles unfamiliar with the demands of running, can be catastrophic.

In my current out-of-shapeness (or my 'round' shape), I'm trying to stimulate differents sets of muscles via resistance training, walking quickly, and bicycle riding. When I'm able, I may want to wake up some other dorment muscles. My plan (when I'm well under 200 lb's), is to do some interval training via walking/jogging.... who knows if I'll ever be lite enough, have money enough for good shoes, and find a field of soft grass on which to jog non-stop for awhile.

NOTE: These last 40 years of riding motorcycles, I would NEVER have thought that I would be among those crazy cyclists in their lycra shorts and fingerless gloves on distant roads.... 50 miles from the nearest Taco Bell. And I AM one of those crazy cyclists now..... If I'm not careful, I might become one of those tree hugging joggers some day if I continue to look askance at them like I once did cyclists.

Impact forces of 2-3 times body weight is normal. Seems to me the body has evolved around those forces.

it might be "normal" for smaller/average sized people, but i don't know if evolution has been able to compensate for the extra 50lbs, or even 100 extra lbs we pack on now.

jim: very interesting.

I do think perhaps running is something a heavier person should stay away from. Biking, walking and elipitcal for me. I am a big guy and ALWAYS on my feet since I am a chef and the knees do get bugging me after a while.

i'm a pretty big guy and i have a physical job. 3.5 months ago before i snapped and had enough, on nights where i was standing/constantly moving, i would come home and feel like i fell down a flight of stairs. my hips and knees were taking a beating. i'm 6 foot tall and before i decided to make a change, i weighed around 292lbs-295lbs. i have been eating right and exercising (biking and weight lifting) and so far i'm down to 258lbs (i still have a ways to go).

.... who knows if I'll ever be lite enough, have money enough for good shoes, and find a field of soft grass on which to jog non-stop for awhile.

How do you feel about used? I got a set of these (blow) for just under $8. REI has a generous return policy, and sells returned goods. Somebody bought them, and didn't like the shoes. Maybe they were a gift ... they were in almost pristine condition.

http://www.vibramfivefingersmens.com/images/magicthumbs/vibram0061_300.jpg

^ Highly reflective. And machine washable; used plus bleach equals good as new. There's also Craigslist.

.... and I hear of walking/running without shoes is better for the person. It's funny, while at REI shopping for my bike, all the help were wearing those..... two weeks later they were all wearing water-proof sandles. Maybe I'll go to REI and first buy some of those 5 finger toe socks and try those first with my sandles.... THEN consider going with the shoes.

RandoneerRider,

try the nike "free" running shoes first. its almost like the vibrams but look like regular shoes.

I'm already walking, not yet jogging/running (my 213 lb's is too heavy for my 5' 2"ness), but I discovered a few years ago how good QUALITY socks can change a guy's life, and his comfort through it. I'll wear sandles (w/wool socks ((mmm, nice....)), and my nylon/leather tactical boots when working were comfortable, but I have yet to find something for my 6 1/2 EEEE foot that fits and comfortably. Gonna maybe try those 5 toed novelties, and certainly gonna look at these Nike 'FREE' running shoes.... even if it's just for walking (waddling).

I'm with Craig, just when does jogging become running? Is there a certain speed cutover?

Two answers for that. My favorite is a quote I once heard "A jogger becomes a runner when they complete their first race entry form." The other is 8 minute/mile pace.

I might consider jogging (or not) when I get my body weight down to a weight that would not be AS abusive on my joints as the 212 pounds they're supporting now. In short.... why jog/run? when walking is weight bearing enough, and cycling addresses the wind & cardio issue.

2 reasons for me: 1. Time constraints--sure, walking and running 3 miles burns the same amount of calories, but I can run 3 miles in less than half an hour while it takes me an hour to walk it. 2. There are fewer 5K walk competitions than 5K running competitions. While I love running, I have no desire to run more than a 5K. As long as my 5K time is under 29 minutes, I'm happy with my running fitness level. I'm still not into biking as a fitness option, choosing instead to use biking as a family event. Running is "me" time.

I've been the runner, and the jogger turned runner. And been heavy in between all. I had my left knee replaced last November. And, intend to run again. I've been jogging a bit off and on the last couple months. I've dealt with an MCL strain in my other knee (the "good" one), and a bone spur in the back of my heel. I hate hate hate the elliptical machine, simply because I can't get a good long stride. But it is also helping me adjust my running stride as I am seriously considering the minimalist style shoes and running methods. Your foot was evolved over many millenia, to carry you over the ground. And to run. Soft cushiony shoes are relatively new. I used to run in Nike Aqua Socks a zillion years ago, and tolerated that quite well. Yes, I need to lose the weight regardless. But, I will buy some minimalist shoes soon and start on the treadmill/elliptical first. After the MCL strain, I decided all my jogging now will be strictly on the treadmill or soft trails. No street/road work until I've lost weight.

Coincidentally, even at my strongest, most fit running, I was still over 215 pounds. And did the 1.5 mile in less than 11 minutes... ONly slightly longer than when I was running at 165...

Your foot was evolved over many millenia, to carry you over the ground. And to run.

That doesn't mean that's the optimum way to run. I never was aware of the whole "barefoot vs. shod" debate until I started running and checking out some running forums, but the bottom line is that the jury is still out on the debate. With my flat wide feet and 200+ pounds, I need the support. Brian Dunning, host of a podcast called Skeptiod, has a really good article discussing the debate:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4185

On the other hand, I just came back from the beach, and saw a lot of runners on the beach during my week there. I was amazed that almost no one ran barefoot. I stuck to the road for my runs, I'm not ruining my $100+ shoes in the salt water.

That doesn't mean that's the optimum way to run. I never was aware of the whole "barefoot vs. shod" debate until I started running and checking out some running forums, but the bottom line is that the jury is still out on the debate. With my flat wide feet and 200+ pounds, I need the support. Brian Dunning, host of a podcast called Skeptiod, has a really good article discussing the debate:

http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4185

On the other hand, I just came back from the beach, and saw a lot of runners on the beach during my week there. I was amazed that almost no one ran barefoot. I stuck to the road for my runs, I'm not ruining my $100+ shoes in the salt water.

i found this interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jrnj-7YKZE

I didn't really intend to start a debate. I think there is some merit to both sides of the argument. And realize that not everyone will be able to tolerate barefoot/minimalist running. I'm curious if I can tolerate it since I did at one time. And those of us old enough to remember when the Converse Allstar shoes were what EVERYONE wore, how much padding and cushion did we have in those?

And those of us old enough to remember when the Converse Allstar shoes were what EVERYONE wore, how much padding and cushion did we have in those?

OK, now you're making me feel old--I still wear those. My current pair are a specially ordered blaze orange. I actually started my couch to 5K wearing those, figuring if Rocky could do it, I could too. I'm no Rocky :)

OK, now you're making me feel old--I still wear those. My current pair are a specially ordered blaze orange. I actually started my couch to 5K wearing those, figuring if Rocky could do it, I could too. I'm no Rocky :)

if your doing the two raw eggs in a glass thing then i shall bow down to your willingness to go "full on".