Bicycle Mechanics - Should a cassette arrive like this?

I bought a 9-speed cassette online, and it came in like this:
215090
The bag was ripped open too.
I tried to fit the two separate sprockets onto the cassette, but found no way.
Is this right?

The two loose cogs are inverted. Flip them over and try it again.

All cassettes have at least the two smallest cogs and the lockring as separate pieces.

I assume you bought this cassette on e-bay or from some on-line seller as it seems to be a "grey-market" part, i.e. resold from some manufacturer's overstock. Comercially packaged cassettes come in boxes and are assembled on a post or other retainer that keeps everything in order.

To install this cassette, place the grouped together cogs on the freehub body, then the larger of the two separate cogs with it's spacer side toward the larger ones, then the smallest cog, also with its spacer facing the others and then the lockring. You do realize thse cogs are "keyed" to the freehub body and the narrow spline on the body must be aligned with the narrow groove on the cogs?

I assume your freehub body is an 8/9/10-speed version. If it's a 7-speed body the cassette wil be too wide to fit.

The two loose cogs are inverted. Flip them over and try it again.Nothing fit on anything, either sides. Anyway, when I order a 9-speed cassette, am I to expect a cassette with 9 sprockets or a bag of loose parts?

The cogs don't actually fit together as one complete unit (like the old freewheels.) But once you put all the loose cogs on the hub they are made one by tightening the lockring.

I actually disassemble my cassettes on purpose to get 8 loose cogs. This makes it possible to clean everything more thouroughly.

Nothing fit on anything, either sides. Anyway, when I order a 9-speed cassette, am I to expect a cassette with 9 sprockets or a bag of loose parts?

I respectfully posit that you either have a wrong-speed cassette ( like you ordered a 9-Speed, but you have a 7-Speed), or you have no idea how to put a cassette on. There is nothing wrong with the cassette in your picture.

I think you need a bike shop.

Nothing fit on anything, either sides. Anyway, when I order a 9-speed cassette, am I to expect a cassette with 9 sprockets or a bag of loose parts?


YES! I never bought a 9spd shimano but my 7s and Campis look like that. your are putting it on a 9spd body right ;)

All cassettes have at least the two smallest cogs and the lockring as separate pieces.

I assume you bought this cassette on e-bay or from some on-line seller as it seems to be a "grey-market" part, i.e. resold from some manufacturer's overstock. Comercially packaged cassettes come in boxes and are assembled on a post or other retainer that keeps everything in order.

To install this cassette, place the grouped together cogs on the freehub body, then the larger of the two separate cogs with it's spacer side toward the larger ones, then the smallest cog, also with its spacer facing the others and then the lockring. You do realize thse cogs are "keyed" to the freehub body and the narrow spline on the body must be aligned with the narrow groove on the cogs?

I assume your freehub body is an 8/9/10-speed version. If it's a 7-speed body the cassette wil be too wide to fit.Thank you very much for the precise instructions. After a bit of fiddling it fell into place!

The last cogs always come appart i dont know whats the problem, And yo uare getting lucky because the miche ones come in individual spacers and cogs so probably that could make more than bad??? Just put the cluster in, put the other 2 in there, then the lockring, is that a problem???

The old 7 sp shimano HG came in 5 speed cluster and the last 2 plus the lockring just like the stuff u have in there, again, what is the big deal if the thing is new?

YES! I never bought a 9spd shimano but my 7s and Campis look like that. your are putting it on a 9spd body right ;)Yes, I just received my new wheel set (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004JOIY88), ...and the 9 cogs fit.

The cogs don't actually fit together as one complete unit (like the old freewheels.) But once you put all the loose cogs on the hub they are made one by tightening the lockring.

I actually disassemble my cassettes on purpose to get 8 loose cogs. This makes it possible to clean everything more thouroughly.I tightened the lockring lightly by hand. Is there a special tool needed for that?

I respectfully posit that you either have a wrong-speed cassette ( like you ordered a 9-Speed, but you have a 7-Speed),Wrong, I ordered the right stuff.


or you have no idea how to put a cassette on.Correct, which is why I needed intelligent advice.


There is nothing wrong with the cassette in your picture.Wrong, because I reputable seller would have sent it properly assembled and aligned. But, as HillRider pointed out, I bought from a gray market outfit.


I think you need a bike shop.Wrong again - what I needed was good advice, as provided by HillRider.

I tightened the lockring lightly by hand. Is there a special tool needed for that?

Yes, there is a tool that you need to tighten the lockring to torque specification.

I say to take your bike to a bicycle shop, so they can at least show you how to do it.

Or, alternatively, you can look up "putting cassettes on bicycles" on You Tube.

I tightened the lockring lightly by hand. Is there a special tool needed for that?

Yes, you cannot put enough torque on the lockring with your bare hand.
The smallest cog on this cassette is an 11 so you will need the special lockring made for the 11. I assume that is what you got.
Most lockrings have the recommended torque shown on the lockring in neuton-meters.

Wrong, because I reputable seller would have sent it properly assembled and aligned. But, as HillRider pointed out, I bought from a gray market outfit.

I have been buying cassettes for a long time, and what HillRider was talking about is "packaging", not assembling.

In proper Shimano packaging, you still have to take the cassette apart from the plastic spline fitting to put it on your freehub.

Yes, there is a tool that you need to tighten the lockring to torque specification.Oh great, another tool.


I say to take your bike to a bicycle shop, so they can at least show you how to do it.Would that help, if I don't have the tool?


Or, alternatively, you can look up "putting cassettes on bicycles" on You Tube.With or without the proper tool? ;)

Note: the splines have 1 wider than the rest, and a narrow one right next to it.

line all the cogs up to that.

If you plan to do any of your maintenance work you'll need that tool and others. You do not have to have a torque wrench, just be sure to get it tight enough. A loose cassette can damage an aluminum freehub, poor shifting performance, and lots of noise.

Nothing fit on anything, either sides. Anyway, when I order a 9-speed cassette, am I to expect a cassette with 9 sprockets or a bag of loose parts?

There isn't enough space in the smallest cogs to rivet them together. AFAIK Even bulk (Shimano) cassettes come on a plastic post.

Wrong, because I reputable seller would have sent it properly assembled and aligned. But, as HillRider pointed out, I bought from a gray market outfit.



It IS properly assembled, those last two sprockets never come attached to the cassette, for whatever reason. To have it assembled any further, it would have to be on the freehub body already.

Here's the Park Tool link for cassettes and freewheels/freehubs. You've got a freehub setup. http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/cassette-and-freewheel-removal

Tool:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/product-accessories/2011-Park-Tool-FRG-5GC-Cassette-Tool-896.51.1.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=Google%2BBase&utm_campaign=Datafeed

Again, If you don't plan to tinker with the cassette yourself, run by a bike shop and they'll tighten the lock nut, maybe for a small fee, maybe for free.

Brad

I would buy the tool if i was you.

There isn't enough space in the smallest cogs to rivet them together. AFAIK Even bulk (Shimano) cassettes come on a plastic post.That would be perfectly acceptable, because it would show how it is assembled. Loose in a plastic bag shows nothing to the first time buyer.

Again, If you don't plan to tinker with the cassette yourself, run by a bike shop and they'll tighten the lock nut, maybe for a small fee, maybe for free.

BradYes, my LBS does it for $7.00, which is less than the shipping cost from Park Tool. Just a nuisance not to be able to do simple tasks yourself. I wish I could buy the tool locally.

That would be perfectly acceptable, because it would show how it is assembled. Loose in a plastic bag shows nothing to the first time buyer.

Are you sure you can't find the tool locally? They're very common and cheap. They are almost always available on the ubiquitous Park Tool display rack that most bike shops have - or behind the parts counter.

Of course you'll need a torque wrench too (or do like countless people and give it a good firm tightening with a 9" wrench and you'll probably be OK.... I did that for years, but now use a torque wrench because I have one).

I really think you're being overly critical. I don't see it so much as irreputable about how that cassette came. I just see it as you being unfamiliar with how a cassette goes on. Now that you've done it, you'll probably agree that it's likely that packaging really isn't critical because there's only one way the parts can go on anyway. Having received the first cassette I ever bought "properly" packaged and assembled on the post, I think that like me, you probably would have the same difficulty because it pretty much comes apart in pieces when you take it off the post. Yea, you'd have had something to look at, but maybe you wouldjn't have done so (like me) and would have had to figure it out and/or look it up online to get it on properly.

Either way, you would have had to get help here, on a website or from your LBS because you weren't familiar with the cassette, the tool and how to use it. I'm not faulting you for not being able to do it and having to learn, btdt in spades. It's not the packaging fault though.

PS: just spent a great week cycling in OR, over McKenzie pass out to the coast and then some riding out there. Oregon is the best place in the world, especially when sunny and warm!

Maybe so, Camilo. But then I would have had no reason to ***** (Ok, this was supposed to be ("b i t c h"), because it would have been my own fault for not taking note how it fits together. This way I never had a chance, which was frustrating me.
Either way, if there is a next time I shall know - unless the damn technology gets changed again! ;)

Yes, my LBS does it for $7.00, which is less than the shipping cost from Park Tool. Just a nuisance not to be able to do simple tasks yourself. I wish I could buy the tool locally.

No doubt you can. I buy lots of stuff online from Bike Tools Etc: http://www.biketoolsetc.com/, which is in Ashland, 15 miles from you. If you want to see how it's done, check out courses at United Bicycle Institute: http://www.bikeschool.com/ , also in Ashland. You are very, very close to some good resources for bicycle repair.

Once you've bought the tool, you'll use it. For one, it makes it easy to thoroughly clean the cassette. Some of my bike tools are 30 years old, yet still work perfectly. Good tools are always a wise investment.

No doubt you can. I buy lots of stuff online from Bike Tools Etc: http://www.biketoolsetc.com/, which is in Ashland, 15 miles from you. If you want to see how it's done, check out courses at United Bicycle Institute: http://www.bikeschool.com/ , also in Ashland. You are very, very close to some good resources for bicycle repair.

Once you've bought the tool, you'll use it. For one, it makes it easy to thoroughly clean the cassette. Some of my bike tools are 30 years old, yet still work perfectly. Good tools are always a wise investment.Good point, and thanks for that tip in Ashland!

Maybe so, Camilo. But then I would have had no reason to ***** (Ok, this was supposed to be ("b i t c h"), because it would have been my own fault for not taking note how it fits together. This way I never had a chance, which was frustrating me.
Either way, if there is a next time I shall know - unless the damn technology gets changed again! ;)

How many possible ways did you think it could be assembled? Biggest -> Smallest -> Lockring, all evenly spaced. The two loose cogs installed upside down should have been an immediate red flag....

I can't imagine your reaction had you bought a loose cog cassette.

How many possible ways did you think it could be assembled? Biggest -> Smallest -> Lockring, all evenly spaced.That would be what one expects, and what I tried in all possible combinations. But without the knowledge that the two last sprockets only fit when placed onto the hub you could fiddle for eternity and scratch your head. All puzzles look simple after being explained!


The two loose cogs installed upside down should have been an immediate red flag...."installed"? They came loose in a plastic bag!


I can't imagine your reaction had you bought a loose cog cassette.In such a case I certainly would have expected loose cogs. I am not a stupid man, just a first time buyer. Did you guess all these mysteries when first exposed to them?
I am really glad that there usually are reaonable and helpful members in here who have useful advice, rather than making one feel stupid.

The packaging you bought really wasn't intended for the "first time purchaser", it was for the experienced mechanic who realizes how these things go together (which now includes you) and buys on price, not on convenience. Most new buyers obtain their components from a bike shop and either get retail packaging or ask the bike shop to install the part.

You are by no means alone in this. We get dozens of threads from riders who buy things from e-bay and have NO idea what they have or how it works. At least you were quite a bit beyond that level since you knew what to ask.

BTW, a lockring tool is cheap, durable and essential. It's one tool any multi-speed bike owner who want to do their own mechanical work needs. A decent chain tool is another.

Yes, my LBS does it for $7.00, which is less than the shipping cost from Park Tool. Just a nuisance not to be able to do simple tasks yourself. I wish I could buy the tool locally.

I'd be shocked if you *couldn't* buy one locally.
I'd be shocked if your LBS didn't have them for sale.

I actually bought one this morning at my LBS for $5.95 (Park FR-5).
I've also seen them at most other shops in my area.

If there's an upside to all of this, it's that from reading this thread *before* I removed my own cassette, I learned that I'd likely encounter at least a couple loose cogs, not to be shocked about that, and keep track of them for reinstall.
Thanks! :thumb:

I'd be shocked if you *couldn't* buy one locally.
I'd be shocked if your LBS didn't have them for sale.

I actually bought one this morning at my LBS for $5.95 (Park FR-5).
I've also seen them at most other shops in my area.I will stop by and ask, in any case. I thought they may not want to sell the tool, but rather sell the service. If I could get it here for what you paid I would love it!

...I thought they may not want to sell the tool, but rather sell the service...

Honestly, if an LBS that I dealt with took that approach, I'd go looking for a new LBS!

But that's a whole 'nother conversation...

I put a new Performance/Forte 9spd cassette on my bike recently - wouldn't slide on all the way because one of the cogs needed some help with a file to fit. Had to remove the screws holding the 7 cogs together to figure out the problem and to get at the very-slightly-bad cog. (It's lighter without the screws!)
I've never used a torque wrench on cassette lock rings but do tighten them pretty tight. What kind of torque wrench is used with a lockring tool?

Honestly, if an LBS that I dealt with took that approach, I'd go looking for a new LBS!

But that's a whole 'nother conversation...Well, yes. But I won't accuse them until after I find out. If my two LBS don't sell tools I am just out of luck.

What kind of torque wrench is used with a lockring tool?
I use a 1/2"-square drive beam type torque wrench (Craftsman) and a 1" socket with my Park FR-5 tool or a 15/16" socket with the Shimano TL-HG16 tool (I don't have the proper 24 mm socket but the 15/16" fits fine).

I have accessory centerpins in both tools to keep them in place under load for either removing or installing the lockring. I have also used a qr skewer to hold it in place before I got the centerpin versions.

I use a 1/2"-square drive beam type torque wrench (Craftsman) and a 1" socket with my Park FR-5 tool or a 15/16" socket with the Shimano TL-HG16 tool (I don't have the proper 24 mm socket but the 15/16" fits fine).

Most importantly, you need a torque wrench that can reach at least 40 N*m (30 ft.*lbs.) for Shimano cassettes and apparently a bit more for Campagnolo (50 N*m based on a quick Google search). I use my 3/8" drive torque wrench for this as my 1/2" drive starts at 25 ft.*lbs. and I trust it less that low in it's range (it goes up to 250 ft.*lbs.). Since my 1" drive socket is a 1/2" drive impact socket (originally bought to use with some automotive suspension tools), I use a 1/2" to 3/8" drive adapter as well.

The short story is don't buy a 1/4" drive torque wrench and expect to be able to tighten cassette lockrings properly.

I have a click type 1/2 inch torque wrench. I just need to get a 1" socket and give that a try.

The LBSs around here are mostly useless for anything I want. Everytime I go in I always get "well, we can order that..." But as far as I know, ALL of them carry cassette lockring tools. That's where I bought mine, for about $6 if I remember correctly.

Good tools are always a good investment. (And cheap tools are always a waste of money.)

The LBSs around here are mostly useless for anything I want. Everytime I go in I always get "well, we can order that..." But as far as I know, ALL of them carry cassette lockring tools. That's where I bought mine, for about $6 if I remember correctly.That's encouraging, I hope to be as lucky here.

Q: OMG. I ordered a dead chicken to eat, but it just came in a bag. Shouldn't it already be cooked or something? I would think a first time buyer would just be able to take it out of the bag and eat it, but it doesn't seem to be working.....

A: You need a few special tools, like maybe an oven of some kind. You have to make it hot.

Q: Why? Why doesn't it already come hot?

A: Well, you can get a chicken already hot, but it costs more and you have to get it locally.

Q: Crap.


These kinds of threads amuse me to no end.....

Want instructions and pretty packaging? Then don't buy gray market parts! They're packed that way to save resources not needed by OE bike assemblers- you know, instructions and a pretty box. :thumb:

O - pick up one of Lennard Zinn's bicycle repair and maintenance books, or one of Todd Downs' similar books -- each describes the various technologies and standards used for diferent bike parts, shows the tools needed for different procedures, and each is likely to be available in your local library if you don't want to help out Jeff Bezos. I've found that sometimes the counter person at a bike shop doesn't know the details of the different tools they sell, so figuring out in advance what I need (sometimes down to the part number) has been a big help.

BikeWise, we are glad to got amused.
Do you have anything constructive to contribute as well?

Also, my understanding was that "gray market" items were items sold in a different area or channel from the normal retail channel, while "OEM packaged" items were the plain/minimal packaging versions, often without instructions or some accessories.

O - pick up one of Lennard Zinn's bicycle repair and maintenance books, or one of Todd Downs' similar books -- each describes the various technologies and standards used for diferent bike parts, shows the tools needed for different procedures, and each is likely to be available in your local library if you don't want to help out Jeff Bezos. I've found that sometimes the counter person at a bike shop doesn't know the details of the different tools they sell, so figuring out in advance what I need (sometimes down to the part number) has been a big help.Thanks, I'll check it out!

So when do we talk about the chainwhip that will be necessary when trying to remove the cassette? That should be interesting.

I see jds108 beat me to it.

Again, you can tighten the locknut with just the lockring tool and a wrench. Opening the locknut (for cleaning, replacing spokes, whatever) will be more difficult, because the whole cassette turns freely in that direction, together with the lockring. You need something to hold the cassette in place while you crank the lockring open, and your hands won't do it. That's what a chainwhip is for. If you buy a lockring tool, buy a chainwhip as well.