Recumbent - How does a bent compare to a road bike?

Question: I have heard that theoretically bent are faster than road bikes, but I have never seen a bent fly.

Are they really faster in real life with non-athletes?

Question: I have heard that theoretically bent are faster than road bikes, but I have never seen a bent fly.

Are they really faster in real life with non-athletes?

Yes, due to about 30% less aero drag they can be faster on flat pavement or down hill if the cornering is not too sharp.

See this recent thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=70248

The aerodynamic advantage of recumbents becomes apparent only at higher speeds, say, over 20 mph.

The difference from road bikes is that riding a recumbent makes it easier to attain and maintain those higher speeds.

Think about it. If more of your body's capacity to produce energy is going toward forward propulsion rather than the exertion expended in supporting your back, shoulders, neck, wrists. etc, and, simultanously, you're presenting a smaller profile to air resistance than on a road bike, don't you think you might be able to ride faster?

i never had a 10 speed frame as they called them when i was a kid.i remember thinking as i was a kid about the guys whose xchain broke and they had to speak high notes for awhile.i had a murray,spoke some high notes,then a sting ray as a kid.i sat way back on my bananna seat,never spoke any high notes on that bike.
i wasn't interested in bikes after my first car.then i saw electric motor kits,and a 3 wheel bike that didn't look like a old fossils only way to get around,even if i'm a relic rrr a blast from the past.i was really something,,,before puters

i never had a 10 speed frame as they called them when i was a kid.i remember thinking as i was a kid about the guys whose xchain broke and they had to speak high notes for awhile.i had a murray,spoke some high notes,then a sting ray as a kid.i sat way back on my bananna seat,never spoke any high notes on that bike.
i wasn't interested in bikes after my first car.then i saw electric motor kits,and a 3 wheel bike that didn't look like a old fossils only way to get around,even if i'm a relic rrr a blast from the past.i was really something,,,before puters

happy trails and dodge those squirrels

With bents, do you use a fairing or not?

If so, how do cross winds effect your handling?

Fairings only make a difference above 15 mph. A front fairing won't be effected all that much, wheel fairings or front with body sock you will really notice. A tail fairing is middle of the road, some cross wind effect, but good speed benefit. Front fairing also give some weather benefit, keeps some of the wind and rain off.

Darren

Some real world numbers. I ride about 5000 miles per year for last 7 yrs. Lately half on DF bike, half on recumbents. I will use a 40 mile average hilly, SW wisconsin coarse for example. 48 yrs old 6'3" 215 pounds not an athelete before bike riding.
Road bike 19-20 MPH depending on how I feel that day and the total amount of hills.
GRR long wheel base recumb bare 18-19 MPH, slower due to hills
GRR long wheel base recumb front fairing 19-20 MPH
GRR long wheel base recumb front faring and stocking. 21 maybe 22
short wheel base P38 no fairings 19-20 MPH faster than long wheel base without fairing because it climbs better.
F 40 short wheel base fully faired 22 maybe 23
F 40 and GRR with stocking are very fast on completely flat coarse. 40 miles flat GRR maybe 23 F 40 maybe 25. Road bike maybe 21 on flat coarse, really can't gain much over a moderately hilly coarse. Road bike on training ride with good group about 24 or maybe 25 MPH average on flat 40 mile coarse.

:D I love the analytical answers. :D :D :D :D :D

Just what I needed to know. Thank you.

Bikerski,

What effect is there on the riding geometry when you have a fairing and good cross winds?

It's not as bad as the plains, but we do get gusts along the foothills.

thanks

Road Bike Tour of Colorado three different years with GRR front fairing and body stocking. Took the stocking off when it got warm but the front fairing was always on. Long wheel base style recumbent is very stable. Front fairing in wind is never a problem for me. Fairing is lycra and acually deforms during heavy cross winds in a way that lessons its side signature. a f40 on the other hand is short wheel base with fairings that do not deform. This bike is dangerous in sidewinds or on narrow roads with heavy semi traffic. BTW the GRR faired and stocking hit 65 MPH on the top of many mountain downhills. Would have been faster if I hadn't had to brake for corners.

Did a road race of 62 miles this summer with average overall speed of 24.4mph on a carbon velokraft.
The lowracers tend to be quite a bit faster than a socked bike although maybe not as fast as fully faired f-40.

Being lower to the ground even with a tailfairing, there isn't that much problems with crosswinds. I did quite a few rides this summer through the country with 30mph gusty winds and had no problems keeping the bike on the road. A lot of the time, the crosswinds do actually push you along like a sailboat.

My riding partner upgraded to a lightweight trek 1500 road df at the same time I got my Django. He is seriously pissed that he did not buy a bent now that I smoke him on everything except hills. I am right behind him on the short hills but he leaves me behind on long ascents.

When I first made the switch to bentspeed he would bask in the warm glow of my effort. Now he barely gets to catch his breath on the downhills before I pass him again.

A bent doesn't hurt nearly as much.

CS

My average speeds for 'lumpy' terrain rides of 50 miles or so; that is, smallish hills but not close enough together to qualify as rollers:

Aluminum DF: 17 mph
V-Rex: 17-18 mph
V-Rex with front fairing: 19-21 mph
Baron lowracer: 22-23 mph

I think a socked GRR is about the same aerodynamically as a stock-class lowracer, but weighs a lot more. That means they're a good match in the flats, but the lowracer will have the advantage on climbs.

Bikerski,
or anyone else,
In your opinion, if someone (me) were starting to look for a bent to tour cross country (rocky mts. a goal) where would you steer him? Currently liking the P38 with a trailer possibly.

Bikerski,
or anyone else,
In your opinion, if someone (me) were starting to look for a bent to tour cross country (rocky mts. a goal) where would you steer him? Currently liking the P38 with a trailer possibly.

My first choice would be a TourEasy or GRR, with front fairing and panniers. If you want front panniers, there's even a short fairing available. Second would be a Stratus, also LWB. If you want a SWB, then I of course (being a RANS owner :) ) would have to recommend a V-Rex. It's triangulated for stiffness and built sturdy enough to take touring loads. The P-38, also triangulated, is a racing bike. Even if some people have used it for touring, I would not trust it with heavy loads. Tim Brummer has stated in the past that he only warrants the frames for 3 years because he builds them so light that he expects them to fail sooner or later. I would not recommend rear suspension, either, because it could mess up handling with a trailer.

I would go with Tour Easy or GRR with a bob trailer. I have used a bob for many miles. I like the way the bike handles with the bob, although I haven't used panniers. Mountain downhills are a blast with a GRR. I would not feel as comfortable on the downhills with a short wheelbase, especially loaded. I've toured at 230 LBS, bob trailer with 24 LBS of load plus trailer weight, on 23MM tires with no problem. For cross country trip probably would use 28 MM tires in back 406 size in front. 24 LBS includes clothing for a week, sleeping bag, tent and full size pillow. Can't get used to not have a comfy pillow. For my touring I don't take cook stuff. Too many good places to eat for the hassle. I do take a few power bars etc.... in case I get between places at meal time. Touring is also a good time to connect with how realy wonderful 99.9% of the people in the world are. Got a great story. See below.

Great people tour story. Wife and I on tandem with Bob. Push a little to far. Get to camp site 8 PM, started to rain lightly last few miles, getting dark fast. Got tent up, showered, feeling pretty good. No place to get food close. I see a multiple family camp site next door. Ask if anyone would be kind enough to take us to food about 5 miles down the road. Guys says he doesn't want to do that but procedes to give us the keys to his new $30,000 ford pickup truck! Can't beat wisconsin. With deer all over the place it was the slowest I have ever driven.

Great people tour story. Wife and I on tandem with Bob. Push a little to far. Get to camp site 8 PM, started to rain lightly last few miles, getting dark fast. Got tent up, showered, feeling pretty good. No place to get food close. I see a multiple family camp site next door. Ask if anyone would be kind enough to take us to food about 5 miles down the road. Guys says he doesn't want to do that but procedes to give us the keys to his new $30,000 ford pickup truck! Can't beat wisconsin. With deer all over the place it was the slowest I have ever driven.

I actually did Laugh Out Loud at this one, great story!

Hey thanks guys I just learned a ton from the replys. Now to show more of my lack of knowledge of bents........what is a GRR?

Gardner Martin was a pioneer in recumbents. He got lucky cutting old 10 speeds apart and building long wheel base recumbents. He hit upon a good design and refined it, although I built a couple myself and they are surprisingly close to the geometry of a couple of ten speeds cut and welded together. Anyway, he died recently, his company is Easy Racer. They build a steel long wheel base bike called a tour easy. The aluminum bike of the same geometry is called a gold rush replica, or GRR. He won a prize by operating a highly modified Gold Rush at 65 MPH for like 200 meters. Interesting fact, He and his girl friend are the couple on the blanket in the woodstock picture.

Gold Rush Replica, now that I have heard of!
Thanks again.
Roger

I'm a non-athelete. I don't have hard, analytical numbers. Only anecdotes.

I bought my recumbent after commuting on my mountain bike for a while, an 8.5 mile commute one way. Right after I got the recumbent I had a hysterectomy. 12 days after the hysterectomy I could ride the bike -- slowly -- but I could still pass up slower bikes on the bike path. I've passed up more and more people in the 6 weeks since. I can't pass roadies, but I never could anyway. I can ride it with so little effort I'll probably get fat. And because it's so effortless I'm pretty sure I'm going faster, at least on the flats and downhills. Headwinds are not so bad on the bent. Even hills aren't too bad on the bike I chose. My bike weighs more than 30lbs, by the way.

If all I wanted was speed I'd probably do the spandex roadie thing. But bent riding is really fun. When riding my DF bike, once I get to my destination I'm finished. Once I reach the destination on my bent, I'm thinking of a new destination.

The only things I don't like are the dependence on smooth pavement and the lack of anonymity/curiosity factor sometimes.

...what is a GRR?
That would be a Gold Rush Replica, the aluminum-framed version of a TourEasy.

Interesting fact, He and his girl friend are the couple on the blanket in the woodstock picture.

Folks,

I have heard this about Gardner. What image is it? Is it from the Woodstock album cover? I couldn't find anything on the Easy Racers site about this. Google search has been fruitless.

What is a DF bike?

What is a DF bike?

Standard frame bicycles are known as [D]iamond [F]rame bikes. Personally, I like the term "A$$ Hatchet" better. :)

Standard frame bicycles are known as [D]iamond [F]rame bikes. Personally, I like the term "A$$ Hatchet" better. :)
To be fair, a recumbent ridden with a tight pair of jeans is also an "A$$ hatchet".

To be fair, a recumbent ridden with a tight pair of jeans is also an "A$$ hatchet".

I've never ridden a bent with a tight pair of jeans, but I'll take your word for it.

Standard frame bicycles are known as [D]iamond [F]rame bikes. Personally, I like the term "A$$ Hatchet" better. :)
I don't like the term "Standard frame bicycles." I consider my bents to be standard (for me at least.) What you are referring to is officially labeled a "Safety Bicycle," the design being so named because they were safer for the rider than the highwheelers they replaced. Other polite terms are the aforementioned DFs (diamond frames,) uprights, or even "UCI bikes"; but we in the bent world also refer to them variously as a$$hatchets, fenceposts, upwrongs, wedgies, or MOTs (machines of torture.) Did I forget any names? :)

BTW, for the non-bent riders out there, an explanation is in order. It is significant to note that most bent riders have arrived at their current state after riding Safety Bicycles for many years; so we feel qualified to 'say it like it is.' Still, I try to NOT use derogatory terms if I feel the audience is likely to take offense. This is not one of those places.

I don't like the term "Standard frame bicycles."

I agree with you, but some people who after being told that DF stands for dimond frame, then ask "What's a diamond frame?" I used the term "standard" to try and ward off the next question. :)

I never thought I would be one of these people but here goes. I was a fat, out of shape man before recumbency. Tried DF bikes a number of times to no long term avail. Got into recumb, rode 5000 miles per year for 7yrs and got in shape. Tried DF race bike again. Wanted to race mano e mano. Again could not take the torture. Mid summer this year got a Brooks saddle. Mounted it on the same bike that was torture with a "normal" high priced saddle. Rode the DF bike with Brooks saddle almost exclusively last half year about 2500 miles. Lost more weight and got into even better overal shape. Could ride 100 miles without pain. I truly believe if they sold DF bikes with Brooks saddles there would be way fewer bikes hanging in garages unused and maybe even fewer guys like me that had to ride recumbents. That said I still think some people will never fit on a DF bike. I will always ride recumbents, especially for multi day, long tours but I love the DF for the feeling of being part of the bike, playing with other DF,s and dancing up the hills.

I agree with you, but some people who after being told that DF stands for dimond frame, then ask "What's a diamond frame?" I used the term "standard" to try and ward off the next question. :)
Maybe we should refer to them as "common safety bicycles." Calling them 'common' makes them sound a bit unappealing, which makes the term accurate on several levels. :)

Question: I have heard that theoretically bent are faster than road bikes, but I have never seen a bent fly.

I am much faster on my bent than my hybrid. Speeds I am getting on the bent were attainable on a hyrbrid only by going downhill.

Oh yeah, your posterior will thank you! :beer:

Maybe we should refer to them as "common safety bicycles." Calling them 'common' makes them sound a bit unappealing, which makes the term accurate on several levels. :)

Works for me. ;)

Another point to make, though it will be an obvious one to many recumbent veterans.

It's possible to buy a fast road bike for a ridiculously small amount of money. At Supergo, they've usually got some sort of decent road bike-- 105's, carbon front fork-- for under *$700*. Add an aero bar for under $100, and you've got a bike that will whip any recumbent anywhere near its price. In fact, that bike is faster than recumbents a few times its price.

So, if you want to go fast on a tight budget, a roadie's the way to go (even if it is an "ass hatchet", as some of you put it).

That said, I'd love to have a lower recumbent with a fairing of some kind. Yeah, you look like you're in a science experiment every time you take to the road. It would be cool to sail along at higher speeds, though.

It ain't cheap, though. That's all I'm saying.

another good point. I just purchased an 04 super go fast carbon, ultegra, best wheels, slightly used road bike for $1600. 16 pounds!!!! again, if you are a lighter more fit recumbent person and want to try road bikes, be sure to ride a brooks saddle. I recommend the B17. Nothing wrong with sticking with recumbents only, nothing wrong with riding bents, mountain bikes, road bikes, roller skates etc.... Only thing wrong is being closed minded, but that is with all things in life.

No matter what your pleasure (or pain) the important thing to remember is that YOU ARE OUT RIDING!

'bent Brian

I probably should have offered these before, but I have a FAQ and a Comparison on my website that answer a lot of questions. They are IMHO, of course!
http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/misc/faq.html
http://www.biketcba.org/TRICORR/compare.html

Great info, little bias towards bents, but overall the best overall I have seen.

Good job.

...Good job.
Thanks. Yes, it's a little biased, but -- what whaddya expect -- it's in a recumbent-oriented section of the club's website, and I'm admittedly a little biased myself. :) My expected audience is primarily people who are interested in recumbents and are doing research to see if they want to buy one.

No complaints, you are open about it. You did do a nice job outlining some of the problems with DF bikes. I'm not ready for a bent yet, but find the discussion interesting. My ideal bike doesn't exist. It would be:

1. reliable
2. visible to distracted 20 something SUV drivers
3. able to maintain 30mph
4. easy to power
5. easy to control
6. no aux. power supply

We used to have a commuter here with a bent that flew down the road and he used a rainbow window wind sock to solve the daytime visibility problem. With seeing him on the road, I would never even looked at bents. For me, their primary appeal is speed. Alas having just purchased a good DF, I can't get another bike for some time.

Question: I have heard that theoretically bent are faster than road bikes, but I have never seen a bent fly.

Are they really faster in real life with non-athletes?


I've had my v-rex about two months now,, just put a computer on it yesterday, rode some very familar routes, I'm going about three mph faster than I did on my other bike, not sure if its the shape or the better technology, other bike, 18 gears, old touring bike with two much stuff attached to it. the rex has 29 gears, and is rapidly getting two much stuff attached to it! I'm the same speed on my favorite hills, but I am still getting my legs in shape,