Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - Crosscheck or Long Haul Trucker?

Hi everyone, it has been a while for me on here. Here is my question, and you may have already covered this. I now know what my riding style is. I live my Giant OCR 1 (about 4 years old) but I think it is trying to be race and touring. I will never race, I ride 19-40 miles at a time and enjoy centuries. I may start commuting close to 30 miles round trip a day. I am a constant 240-255# 6'5" 37yr old guy.

Has there been any discussion about Clydesdale and these two bikes? I live in MN and love the brand and that it is local, but should I be looking at something else?

What is an OCR 1 worth anyway?

An OCR-1 is worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for it. Being that it is four years old, I think 33% of it's MSRP is a reasonable asking price if it's in good shape. Local markets will vary, check your local craigslist for an idea what bikes are selling for.

Both bikes are fine for a Clyde. The Cross Check is a bit more sporty than the LHT. The concern with the Cross Check when it comes to commuting and touring is that it has shorter chain stays. If you have large feet, you might run into problems with heal strike. That is when your heal strikes your panniers. If you're using a trailer or a trunk bag which sits on top of your rack, this is a non-issue. Both are great bikes, you won't go wrong with either on them. Test ride them both and see which one feels best to you.

Archinutt, The Cross Check is a light duty touring or CX bike that bridges the road frame and the touring frame. Either would be an excellant all around bicycle. If you plan to ride extended tours with camping the LHT would be a better choice.

Brad

Archinutt, The Cross Check is a light duty touring or CX bike that bridges the road frame and the touring frame. Either would be an excellant all around bicycle. If you plan to ride extended tours with camping the LHT would be a better choice.

That sums it up nicely. Note that the LHT has a triple while the CC does not. That may be important to you.

It sounds like the LHT might be a slightly better bike for you. You said you don't race, so the somewhat more sporty frame and double crank aren't likely to matter so much to you. On the other hand, you like doing centuries, and plan on commuting 30 miles. Commuting tends to mean carrying lots of stuff, from a complete fix it kit and change of clothes to ballast. It would be hard to go wrong with either bike, but the LHT sounds like a better match for your riding style.

But you should test ride both, in case one speaks to you.

From Surly's FAQ (http://surlybikes.com/blog/spew/faqs/#q2)



Should I get the Cross-check, Long Haul Trucker, or Pacer?

Think about it this way:

Pacer – club rider, backpack commuter, gravel racer. The Pacer does not have as many braze-ons for mounting racks and bags as the others, plus the geometry is not designed with fully-loaded touring in mind, so while it will handle long distances well with lower weight cargo, heavier loads will affect it’s handling and your heels are more likely to hit rear panniers on this model.

Cross Check – light duty tourer, pannier commuter, and versatility for practically any build you dream up. Versatile as all get out, but somewhere between touring and ‘road’ geometry.

Long Haul Trucker- cross country tourer, heavy duty commuter, practically begs you to bring the kitchen sink. All the bells and whistles. Low BB and long stays make it good for racks and bags but not as good for technical off-road trails.

Sure, there’s a lot of cross-over between them in what they CAN do – they all make excellent commuters for example. They simply excel a bit more in one area or the other than the next.

IMO, if you're not going to do loaded touring, I'd avoid the LHT. People in the LD forum that get it for unloaded distance riding tend to regret it.

The CC is THE quintessential Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of None. They make excellent commuters, for example.

The Pacer is what I was going to build up as a long-distance bike. Very nice bike, but if you ever want to run racks, it's not for you. Can handle a front handlebar bag, and/or an underseat bag, but that's about it.

From Surly's FAQ (http://surlybikes.com/blog/spew/faqs/#q2)



IMO, if you're not going to do loaded touring, I'd avoid the LHT. People in the LD forum that get it for unloaded distance riding tend to regret it.

The CC is THE quintessential Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of None. They make excellent commuters, for example.

The Pacer is what I was going to build up as a long-distance bike. Very nice bike, but if you ever want to run racks, it's not for you. Can handle a front handlebar bag, and/or an underseat bag, but that's about it.

I ran a rack on my Pacer, but used a seatpost collar that allowed for that. However, I'm building up my second CC this week (single speed to go with my fully geared version) and will be selling the Pacer. I really like the Pacer, but I like the CC more.

Thanks for all the input. Kind of where I am at. I think either would work. Are there any other similiar bikes I should look at? I am pretty sure I would be happy with the LHB, but I wonder if I would ever pack super heavy loads, like for camping.

Has anyone transistioned from the integrated shifters to the bar ends? On my super quick test ride of the LHB the bar ends were much better than I thought the would be. It would be nice if the whole system were a little less finicky than the 105 (although I think they are great).

Cyclocross would be fun. I used to do a lot of mountian biking in the ozarks. Would be fun to have both options.

Archinutt, The simplicity and reliability of a down tube shifter in a convenient location that also allows the fitment of a handle bar bag make bar ends the number one choice among tourers. I've had most of the shifter designs at one time or another and I can't fault bar ends. Reads like the Cross Check maybe dearer to your heart.

Brad

Thanks for asking this question as it helps me to understanded what I want in a bike.

The Surly CrossCheck sounds like a neat option if only it came with a Long Range Derailleur that was already compatible with an extended range cassette. I do a lot of hill climbs and the minimum Gain Ration for the 36 x 25 gear is 2.9. That is still too high a gear ratio for the engine on my bike to comfortably push over the long hauls.

I know such things can be changed after the fact but I want to ride to be a mechanic and don't have access to a LBS mechanic that likes modifying factory bikes.

I have about 1500 miles on my CC now and I like it for what it does. I have a big rack on it so I don't have to worry about heel strike and I can commute very quickly and go on fun fast rides. I feel comfortable riding it long distance as well (74mi is my longest so far) but I do notice some comfort issues with it. You lean a little more forward than a touring bike. Like people say, it doesn't have a triple though...it hasn't been an issue for me, though.

Has anyone transistioned from the integrated shifters to the bar ends?

My girlfriend's K2 road bike was stolen, and she replaced it with a Cross Check. I've borrowed her CC, once, to go a bit less than ten miles. I hate the bar end shifters. When you're ready to shift, it's pretty inconvenient to take your hand off the bar to make it happen. I don't think I'd ever get used to it, and it just seems like horrible timing. Of course, I've only ridden the bike once, and it's too small for me anyway.

On the other hand, she loves it. She said it took about a week to get used to after STI brifters. Now, she says, it's second nature. Apparently you don't have to move your hands very far at all, and it's pretty easy if you're riding in the drops, especially near the ends of the bars. She said she wouldn't even think twice about the bar ends if she needed a bike or was going to recommend one.

i LOVE my nashbar touring frame. very inexpensive and I was able to custom build it up just how I like it. Unfortunately, it got stolen this weekend from my apt building's locked boiler room. hopefully insurance comes thru for me. one drawback is that it is aluminum frame but run it with 32c tires and the comfort will be fine. I hooked mine up with the carbon cyclocross fork and ran a disc brake on the front.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ivqSRjgHnFw/TZMujXoq5pI/AAAAAAAABF8/e4mrDblfhUM/s912/IMAG0690.jpg

this frame sells between 75-100 bucks, buy it and swap all the parts off of your OCR and you are in business for short money. The carbon cyclocross fork was another $125 and is great for commuting because you can run front disc brake and not worry about wet weather stopping. IT's a VERY different geometry from a race bike. my other bike is a motobecane grand sprint so also an aluminum kinesis made frame but the geometry is far more aggressive. the nashbar frame is very well made and gives you plenty of options such as 132.5mm dropouts in the rear to use road or MTB hubs. 3 sets of braze ons for bottle cages, long chain stays to negate the heel strike issue, TONS of clearance. I think you can run 700x40 tires and fenders on this frame if you wanted to

Has anyone transistioned from the integrated shifters to the bar ends?

I've got a bike with bar ends, and it's great. It's a quick reach with modern, shallow drop bars, even from the top; took me about 20 seconds to get used to them. The best part is that you don't have to fool around with adjusting the front derailer for indexing; keep it in friction mode, and you can ride noise free in any combination of gears.

I enjoy the freedom the bar-ends give me to shift my hands around, as compared to the default on-the-brifters location toward which I always seem to gravitate.

The crosscheck is an awesome do-all bike. Only reason I got rid of mine is because I needed a travel frame.

If heel strike is an issue you just mount the rack on an extender, end of problem.

I used mine for commuting, century rides, double metrics, bad weather, good weather, carrying stuff (case and a half of soda for the snack fund at work) and everything in between. Trust me, it can carry a load.

I'm admittedly biased and inexperienced, but I love my Jamis Aurora so far.

Has anyone transistioned from the integrated shifters to the bar ends?


I thought it was a bit annoying at first, but now I really don't think about it. The only thing I don't like is I have to either shift to an easier gear first when I shift into my big chainring, or a harder gear if shifting to the small one. Otherwise I pedal too hard or spin insanely.

If you have not yet decided you may want to give the Salsa Casserole a look see. I just finished building one up and it has the all day comfort potential a century rider needs. I tested the CC and the LHT and liked them both but when I started looking at frame specs the casserole seemed to fit the bill and now I am happy with it. Of the two I liked the CC better.

You guys are just so awesome. Another friend mentioned a Salso casserole today. I look for to two long test rides of the CC and LHT.

It occured to me with this conversation that I could possibly get rid of my 1998 Raliegh M60 (I am all about simplification of stuff these days) that never sees the light of day, and it did it would be pretty tame trail riding. A friend of mine wants me to come down and ride the Katy trail for a few days. i hated the thought of a few days on my mountian bike, but hated the thought of my rode bike on gravel for that long. I hope I like the ride of this CC because it sounds like that might fit the bill. i would miss my triple tho, but I guess i could get one.

I am assuming cyclocross means it can take reasonable single track and gravel roads pretty well.

have any of you big guys that put pressure on the frame had any issues? I had a TriLite that was just too much flex

Would the LHT be any slower with the same effort? Not that I can't step it up, but it occurs to me that everyone I ride with is on a race type bike.

have any of you big guys that put pressure on the frame had any issues? I had a TriLite that was just too much flex

At roughly your stats last season (6'6", 235 - 245) I was doing at least a 200k once a month, and my season included 3x 300k (one with 15 miles of forest service road loose gravel) and a 400k. It's been a phenominal all weather commuter and randonneuring bike for me. I chose the CC over the Pacer because the Pacer maxes out at 28mm tires with fenders, and even then it's a tight fit depending on the fender and tire combo. I use Carradice and Berthoud luggage so I don't suffer the issues of heel strike on shorter stays. The stock equipment is alright, but if you like low gears I'd swap out the rd for a Deore long cage ($50) and throw a 9spd MTB cassette on there (11 - 32). Maybe even a 34/48 up front instead of the stock 36/48 rings. The stock Vero crank wears out quick, but there are good, inexpensive replacements: Sugino XD700 if you wanna stick with square taper. SRAM S300 CX if you decide to go outboard with a GXP bottom bracket. Both are around the $110 price point. I've used both and they rock.

I am assuming cyclocross means it can take reasonable single track and gravel roads pretty well.

have any of you big guys that put pressure on the frame had any issues? I had a TriLite that was just too much flex

I have ridden my Cross Check everywhere I ride my mountain bike, just a little more carefully to avoid pinch flats. It has also been on week long loaded tours and camping trips. When I'm feeling energetic I sometimes ride it to work 40 miles each way.215709215710

If you jump it too high while riding on the hoods, the bars will slip down in the stem upon landing. That is when I know I need to back off a little bit. My crankset wore out pretty quick like the above poster, but the one on it now has been on it for a few years.

Thanks for the pictures. Now I am truly curious. I will let everyone know how the test ride goes on both.

If I was going to buy one bike for all purposes, it would be the Cross Check. You'll like the way it handles compared to the LHT in traffic. If you go touring on it, use front bags on lowriders to avoid the heel strike.

Marc

I have an LHT and love the bike. I ride it loaded and unloaded and the ride is great either way. The bike is a 56cm 26in and just completed a 325 mile supported charity ride from Cleveland to Cincinnati in four days without an issue. I also loaded toured on it, grocery shop, commute and just ride on. It is stable and comfortable and I can hit 20 mph with 2.0 tires on it so it's not slow. Altough sometimes I am slow my average cruising speed is 14-16. Both are great bikes I just am partial to the LHT

215866215867215868Here are some pics of mine...shameless:D I was a bit overpacked on my first self supported tour.

I was going to mention the Salsa Casseroll, but somebody beat me to it. Probably a midway point between the Pacer and the LHT - definitely a road bike, not a Cross, but can run racks and such like the CC. Comes with a front rack that's begging for a quality bag on it.

I just went through this same decision process and decided to go with the LHT. I am still waiting (impatiently) for it to arrive at my LBS. I am 6'1" 330 lb, so i figured i qualify as fully loaded all by myself. I really liked the fact that the LHT has 36 spoke wheels vs. 32 spoke for the CC and I really wanted to stay with a triple. My current Trek 7100 hybrid has served me well, but I wanted something that would be more comfortable on rides over 30 miles. I did a 1/2 century earlier this year and the last 10 miles were quite uncomfortable on my current steed. The switch from aluminum to steel is going to make a big difference for me.

I don't think you can go too far wrong with either choice, so do your test rides and pick the one the feels best to you. I did a test ride of an LHT and just knew I had to have one.

Good luck

If you want to wait, Surly has many new offerings in the works! http://www.surlybikes.com/blog/

LHT with discs.....Nice

Do try other manufacturers touring and cyclocross bikes as well, if you have access to them. It may seem, from reading these forums, as if Surly is the only company in the world making these types of bikes, but there are others on the market.

Do try other manufacturers touring and cyclocross bikes as well, if you have access to them. It may seem, from reading these forums, as if Surly is the only company in the world making these types of bikes, but there are others on the market.

Such as? :D

Such as? :D
Rocky Mountain Sherpa (love mine), Opus Legato, Marin Four Corners, Norco CCX (cyclocross) series, Jamis Aurora, Kona Sutra, Trek 520, Masi Speciale Randoneur...

I considered the same two bikes and ended up with a Torker Interurban. Is set up similar to the CC, and has eyelets for racks and fenders.

Love the bike!

I had cross check. Fell in love with the idea but in the end I found it rather uncomfortable and heavy. Nice long wheelbase made it feel pretty plush but it was was not very comfortable for me. I got a custom Zona tubed sport bike with gargantuan Alpha Q z-pro fork and have been much happier. My surly was a 62 in the British racing green - great looking bike. Bonus on the surly is pretty good resale if it is not to your liking.

I have some movement on this issue. I have decided on the cross check. Test rode and all that. Decided that stock works surprisingly well with one hitch. I really want the STI action, but it is over what I have saved. What is the cheapest, but reliable way to pick up what I need (next research is what I need). I know a lot of people do eBay. Is there a good source find out exactly what I need?

Regardless I just need to go and order the bike. It is -5 degrees this week, and I am no icy rider so I have time.

I also need to select a rack and bags (14 mile commute with work clothes and lunch etc).

That sums it up nicely. Note that the LHT has a triple while the CC does not. That may be important to you.

Crosscheck can have double or triple.. Build it how you want it.. The Crosscheck is a nice blend between a road bike and touring bike.. It gives you lots of options and is a smooth ride.. I know a few people that also use them for long touring with no issues.

Both shops kind of talked me out of the triple. I am going to bite and see if the shifting is that much better

The Cross Check will be a little sportier than the LHT. If you're always carrying something (besides yourself), the LHT would be a good choice, otherwise it's overkill for most folks. Depending on your budget, you may want to check out the Salsa Vaya.

I have some movement on this issue. I have decided on the cross check. Test rode and all that. Decided that stock works surprisingly well with one hitch. I really want the STI action, but it is over what I have saved. What is the cheapest, but reliable way to pick up what I need (next research is what I need). I know a lot of people do eBay. Is there a good source find out exactly what I need?

Regardless I just need to go and order the bike. It is -5 degrees this week, and I am no icy rider so I have time.

I also need to select a rack and bags (14 mile commute with work clothes and lunch etc).

I'd ask the LBS to give you some recommendations on STI options for you to have later. you may like the CC shifting, but if you decide to change, then you know what you need in order to do that.

After doing more research I may go back to the position of trying the bar ends for a season. People seem to love them. Plus I have my giant with 105 if I want the STI for the weekend quicker trips.

Ordering the bike this week. Finally have the money.

I know this is an exhausted topic but I will have 700 wheels but need advice on size.

Ordering the bike this week. Finally have the money.

I know this is an exhausted topic but I will have 700 wheels but need advice on size.

Wheel size or tire size? If is tires, I'm a big fan of having a couple of sizes in the garage. A long ride on great roads can allow for a skinnier tire, whereas commuting on crappy city streets means fatter and softer, IMO. Having a set of CX tires around isn't bad either if your bike will fit them.

I run 700x32s on both my commuter and my long-distance road bike.

Tire width doesn't really impact speed, as long as they're properly inflated. What DOES impact speed is overall wheel+tire weight - and that only impacts how fast you speed up, slow down, and hill climbs. And the difference is so minor that it's not worth talking about unless you're racing, or riding in a paceline, where the extra 1-2 seconds to climb a hill might be the difference between staying with the group or getting dropped.

If I ever get to the point where I need faster tires, I'll get lighter rims and rubber. But I don't think I'll ever go thinner than 32s or 28s. I might go with 35s for a plusher ride.

I almost went with the 32's, but decided on the 28's. I figure if I am switching from a massive aluminum frame and 23's that I always max inflate to a nice steel frame that I might just be ok. I think my next set of tires might be the bigger ones just to see.

I order the bike tomorrow, I am excited. All of my racks and paniers etc should show up tomorrow.

Well, this saga has successfully ended, with a bit of a twist. I went in to order the crosscheck and the guys at the shop basically said, " you know how you wanted STI shifters, a triple, and you needed to buy pedals? Well we were thinking about it and the bianchi volpe has all of that with better steel and it only cost $50 more than the stock built up crosscheck, what you are giving up are lesser hubs but still very good at this price". They had my size and I test rode it. I loved it but had to think about it because I had already made my mind up. I basically had to decide what the brand image and the robins egg blue was worth to me. I was surprised the pull this had. Anyway, I did research on the bike and a few days later went with the volpe. I put all my stuff on it and got the pro fitting that came with the bike. What a difference in ride quality even with 700 28's. I get the love of steel frames. I like the color, but I was excited about the blue frame.

Anyway, thanks for everyone's help. You guys are great I will post a picture.

The classic garage door picture

Archinutt, My older daughter has had a Volpe for years and despite hard use it's proven to be an excellent bike. Congrats.

Brad

Well, this saga has successfully ended, with a bit of a twist. I went in to order the crosscheck and the guys at the shop basically said, " you know how you wanted STI shifters, a triple, and you needed to buy pedals? Well we were thinking about it and the bianchi volpe has all of that with better steel and it only cost $50 more than the stock built up crosscheck, what you are giving up are lesser hubs but still very good at this price". They had my size and I test rode it. I loved it but had to think about it because I had already made my mind up.


It's funny, but I did exactly the same thing a couple years back. I lurked on the Surly and Specialized pages for weeks and agonized over the decision between CC, LHT, or TriCross. Went to the local Specialized dealer to ride an Allez and TriCross and he made me a deal I couldn't refuse on a Bianchi Imola. It was the previous years' model and he had several he needed to move. Significant discount plus a free swap to Shimano pedals.

I love the Bianchi. It's been a great ride. But I still lurk on the Surly page. :)

Very similar to yours, here's mine:
http://www.councilofmoo.com/bikes/2011-06-24_17-51-53_312_sm.jpg