General Cycling Discussion - Disabled Vet conundrum/clip in shoes.

I had my right leg nearly completely ripped off my body, hypovolemic shock, ect... I don't care to get into the details, but due to incompetent medical treatment & lies by the children they let conduct the surgery, I was left with, for example; > I < this is my left foot, basically normal north south orientation & this is my right foot > / < kinda a north/east orientation except it's a little more east than this type can illustrate. So this is what my footprints in the sand would look like { I / **. I am new to cycling and my question is how much play/leeway/swivel does the clip in shoes provide once your clipped in? Can you twist your ankle left to right and how far once clipped in. Cycling is the only sport left that I can do & I feel I'm being robbed only having power on the down stroke. I got some help from Intrepid handicycles with some peddle extensions to keep my right heel from hitting the crank every revolution. But I have yet to get the swivel-ability question answered. I am at least frustrated at best heartbroken. Can someone please help me?:(

Seriously???

I normally just lurk these forums instead of contributing, but I saw that this question had no answers and I guess it was the final straw for me to get an account.

From what I know, you have to twist your foot to disengage the clip. the shoes I've seen only have forward and back adjustment, not a swivel one. A friend of mine has the same problem which stopped him from using toe cages which caused him to slip off of the pedals all the time. He just recently fixed the problem by buying a wide pedals and tieing an innertube to his pedal as a make-shift elastic foot strap. Now even though 30% of his calf muscle is missing, he can still bike faster than me!

Its a hard question, and most people will not know the answer, you might have to wait a while(more than an hour)till someone has an idea to help. I give a much bigger **** than you might think, but do not know the solution to your situation, and its not one of those that warrants any crappy opinion pulled out of a butt. It deserves a Good Answer. But you drove me to give my not so qualified ideas and support. You may have to resort to getting a wide platform peddle, and messing around with power straps, mounting them at a different angle to meet your needs. Or modifying a shoe by drilling and tapping new mounting holes for the cleat, at the angle you need. Wish I was near, I am a pretty handy guy with adapting things, but there are many others probably near you who can help, have you tried multiple shops talking to bike mechanics about this? They might let you try something in store to see if they can help, and trying a peddle will answer better than someone can over the net.


Also, if you are new to cycling you might not know that lots of people do ride on platforms without clip ins. I ride about fifty fifty with without. As a Marine you are very probably stronger than I am, and I can stomp some guys with clip ins while on a set of platforms.

And keep in mind as well, that the weekend is sometime not the most active time on bike forums.

I had my right leg nearly completely ripped off my body, hypovolemic shock, ect... I don't care to get into the details, but due to incompetent medical treatment & lies by the children they let conduct the surgery, I was left with, for example; > I < this is my left foot, basically normal north south orientation & this is my right foot > / < kinda a north/east orientation except it's a little more east than this type can illustrate. So this is what my footprints in the sand would look like { I / **. I am new to cycling and my question is how much play/leeway/swivel does the clip in shoes provide once your clipped in? Can you twist your ankle left to right and how far once clipped in. Cycling is the only sport left that I can do & I feel I'm being robbed only having power on the down stroke. I got some help from Intrepid handicycles with some peddle extensions to keep my right heel from hitting the crank every revolution. But I have yet to get the swivel-ability question answered. I am at least frustrated at best heartbroken. Can someone please help me?:(

Depending on the model of pedals you get, there is some give/play with clipless pedals.
Some pedals have 5 degrees of play before unclipping while another might have 10; and so on.
I've only used Shimano SPD's, one can set the cleat at an angle, making the shoe engage at
an angle with the pedal. Your best bet will probably be to go to your local shop and try out
different pedals.

Sgt Mac, if you don't mind the type of pedal you can get Eggbeater pedals. I rode them when I was bike commuting to work. They have either 6, 15 or 20 degrees of float (play). Maybe that will be enough for your foot to be comfortable when riding.
http://bicycling.about.com/od/equipmentreviews/fr/eggbeaters_review.htm

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK!!!!!!

Hello Sgt Mac
thank you for your service. I come for a huge family of Marines and have the utmost respect for our combat vetrans. Any one can be a Vet but to be combat Vet makes you a real Hero in my book. thank you for all you have done.


as for you pedal issues... can you operate a clipless pedal with your right foot? what I mean is do you have the strength to rotate your foot hard enough to unclip? most pedals have some sort of rotation built into either the pedal or the cleat.

you need to find the best proshop in town, and then look for the old gruff guy in the back who knows what he is doing. have a professional cleat fitting, they should watch you on your bike or a fitmachine to see how your ride. see if anyone still has a "Fit Kit" system and knows how to use it. if your cleat is properly aligned to how it wants to ride on the pedal you should get a few degrees of travel out of the floating cleat.

Also it may be better for your muscles to use a old fashioned clip and strap pedal for a few months to get used to the motion and figure out just how your leg/foot interfaces with the pedal.

I hope this helps

Any reason why you don't want to use flats? Since you're ex-military, maybe you're sensitive to looking different from the others in the group (cycling group or others you see cycling?). You could always use a BMX-style flat with pins on the surface, giving your shoes sercure placement and the ability to be moved a little bit. I've got sciatic nerve problems and this has worked well for me (along with some flat bottom tennis court-style shoes). Current fav pedals are Crank Bros 50/50s (old style, which are inexpensive 'overstock' sale items now). Also, since your leg was damaged, any other problems with it (nerves, muscle use, etc?); just wondering since you mention cycling is all that's left for you.

Any reason why you don't want to use flats? Since you're ex-military, maybe you're sensitive to looking different from the others in the group (cycling group or others you see cycling?). You could always use a BMX-style flat with pins on the surface, giving your shoes sercure placement and the ability to be moved a little bit. I've got sciatic nerve problems and this has worked well for me (along with some flat bottom tennis court-style shoes). Current fav pedals are Crank Bros 50/50s (old style, which are inexpensive 'overstock' sale items now). Also, since your leg was damaged, any other problems with it (nerves, muscle use, etc?); just wondering since you mention cycling is all that's left for you.

flats would be a good idea while his muscles get used to cycling but he would miss out the power that could be derived from the upstroke with the right leg.

Consider a pair of these pedals that , while not true clipless, will allow a great deal of foot movement while riding.

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Grips-Sport-Pedal-Strap/dp/B001FYGGLC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314548797&sr=8-1

Your thought on pulling up on pedal stroke is kind of, in real world terms,
not really an issue.

a circular light pedal action may be maintained that way , but,
with a weak leg it's hard to think of how a power imbalance can be completely,
overcome.

but , if a not a platform pedal , which works for me as Ive been commuting,
transportation,
more than sport riding, of late..

the use of a powergrip strap, on the strong leg seems OK..

Also, consider the Speedplay 'frog" SPD style pedal.
It is a bayonet connection of shoe to pedal,
so swinging your heel out is the release mechanism.
ALA 'Bolt Action'

... Rather than a spring's tension to overcome . so that may be a suitable choice.


[a USN, '66>'69 vet] http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

As others have mentioned, weekend nights can be slow on the forums. And the storm on the east coast is keeping people occupied instead of posting here.

As for your pedals, I use Look cleats that come in 3 different degrees of float. You can get different degrees of rotation for each foot if one needs more than the other.

I use a power grip, lets my janky leg (small birth defect in my left hip) do as it pleases.

My most sincere apology for being impatient, except to Hule, I dont understand how you could bring into this a political jab & then kick me in the balls with my injuries. And Hule I joined the Marines not the Army. & you sound like a political fanatic that I would prefer you simply ignore my posts from here on, thank you!

To the rest of the generous participants I thank you all for your advice & suggestions they will come in handy while I search the local bike shops for a solution. Virtually all the shops I have been to in San Diego have 18-19 yr olds working on commisssion, I have not been to them all, but so far that is my experience, they want to make a sale ASAP without regard for the needs of the customer.

Besides being assembled wrong my right quadracepts are now bicepts, the two exterior muscles were shredded, however the inside muscles are strong, very strong, my patella is about 3/4" wide compared to my left wich is 2" wide. Regardless of how I do it it is painful, but most things in the USMC are, and that is what drives me. I have peddled past people on 15 degree hills, only because the Marines trained me to work past the pain, it's mind over matter. my back is extremely jacked up as well, that is why I chose cycling. I cant stand up for more than 20min before I want to throttle somone sitting in a chair while I stand there with my cane. I am extremely competetive, and was once a 220lb 5-6% body fat extremely fit machine, I was the most physically fit Marine with perfect 300 PFT scores, I could hump mount mutha F-R fully loaded, start at the rear of the platoon and blow by everyone & be waiting at the top while the corpsmen tended to the guys with heat stroke 1/2 way up the hill. That is the long and the short of it and why I want to be the best cyclist I can be. Once again thank you all for the advice, It really touched my heart what most had to say & that you took the time to say is very nice of you.
And Hule buddy if, god fobid someone runs a red light and shatteres your femer and hospitalizes you for 6 months or more I will gladly give you any support I can, may you live in interesting times sir. & lay off the Kool-Aid, Bush hasnt been the president for almost 3yrs now. Enjoy your hope & change & I will enjoy full retirement & medical care for the rest of my life. Your just an angry man, that cant be a fun way to live.

I don't know if this could help you exactly, or if it answers your problem, but some (partial) amputees for example have found Rotor Cranks (RS4X system) helpful. Only slight problem is Rotor stopped manufacturing them recently.

Sgt Mac..

Welcome home!! and thanks

i don't know if you have done this and do no know ifyou are active still in the wounded warrior platoon or you have been discharged or still active duty. if you have not contacted the VA, prostetics and orthotics I would suggest you do so.
The yare very inventive and inovative when it comes to leg injuries/foot injuires and different sport activities..

SEMPER FI

see if this can help, maybe useful information in pedals

http://www.amputeesacrossamerica.com/BikeGuide.htm

It sounds like you need to have the cleat mounted on the right shoe at an angle (maybe, a semi custom shoe thing).

Sgt Mac, I'm going to ping someone to this thread that has issues with scoliosis and crooked, weak legs and cycling who may have some input to help you out.

I would contact Speedplay Pedals (http://www.speedplay.com/) at 1-800-468-6694 (this is the number they say to contact them for technical questions, and not to use email).

The cleats for any clipless system can be mounted at a slight angle, maybe up to 10 or 15 degrees. Some Speedplay pedals have 20 degrees of float(float being how much you can move your foot without unclipping) that is non-centering, so your foot doesn't have spring tension trying to center the foot back if you move it at an angle after clipping in. I don't know if you were looking for road or mountain bike style shoes, but I would guess that road shoes might be easier to find a solution due to the following possible solution. With the Speedplay cleats, there is an adapter plate to mount their 4 hole cleat to a 3 hole road shoe mount. They might not make an adapter plate that would work, but a machine shop or someone handy with metal could make an adapter plate that would allow the cleat to be mounted at any angle in relation to the shoe. Speedplay also has longer spindles available for their pedals, so you might not need as many extensions for that side.

consult a physical therapist who rides.
i did, and it changed my world for the better.
she gave me a list of mods, hit a bike shop (with older staff), checked me and the bike over, installed what parts they had (at no installation charge),
and ordered the rest. took a week. new parts on (again no installation charge), gently used parts donated to the shop for a less fortunate rider, they
insisted i take a 30% discount, and they made a friend for life.

keep pushing, mister!

ka0use (amateur radio callsign)
rodney
u.s. army 1953-1971 (my childhood)
u.s. army 1971-1974 ( i didn't learn the first time!)

My civilian injuries are far less serious than yours. My left ankle won't rotate enough to consistently get out.

I've pretty decided, just do platforms.I'm 65, not going to be racing, not going to be seriously hill climbing. Why do I need clipless pedals?

You already have injuries. Why risk making those injuries worse by putting yourself in a situation where if you can't get out of the pedal you open yourself to more injury?

OK - benefit of my recent research.

just about every clipless pedal on the market takes 15 degrees rotation to get out.

As near as I can determine the two exceptions are Shimano SPD model that is adjustable as to release, and possibly Speed Play zereos - but I have my doubts about the Zeros, and don't actually own nor have I used them.

SpeedPlay Zero _may_ be adjustable to a lower degree - but the two times that I talked to Speedplay tech support it was like I was talking apples and he was talking oranges.After I repeatedly asked the tech "once you set the float to zero" do you still have to rotate your foot fifteen degrees to unclip" his response -That is not the question you shouldd ask" said the tech. Well, hell - it's the one I wanted answered - he never answered it, at least in any way I could understand.

Note This is not approved, speedplay says it can't be done and I am not suggesting you do this - although, I understand several people are doing so successfully.

Speedplay Light Action pedals - with Zero cleats. Definitely not recommended or approved by speedplay.

I researched this somewhat after going down in the grass several times due to being unable to get my bad leg out.

I suggest you focus your research on Shimano SPD's that have adjustable release or speedplay light action with Zero Cleats.

As near as I can tell, all the rest of them require a 15 degree rotation, or more to unclip.

ETA

To be clear - increased swivel = float. Speedplay has the most float and the Zero cleats have the most adjustability on the market to the best of my knowledge.
Note: float has to be overcome to unclip. if you are swiveled in 15 degrees on float , you are going to have to rotate your foot another fifteen degrees to unclip - meaning you will have to rotate total of 30 degrees to unclip.

The Zero cleats have the most adjustments possible available on a standard order pedal.

Sgt Mac,

First thank you for your service and sacrifice. Thank you just doesn't do it justice really but I guess it is all we have. That and advice.

My advice is to seek out a sports medicine doctor and or therapist that specializes in bicycle sports. The last thing you want is to make your problem worse. A shame you are not in Pittsburgh because we have (or had, haven't talked to them in a while) a couple of top flight guys here in Pittsburgh at UPMC. Knowing them I bet they would not charge you a penny to see them. They make tons of measurements to make sure you have a proper fit on the bike.

Sgt. Mac,

First of all, I thank you for your service to the United States.

Secondly, I can relate a bit, as you can tell looking at my stance:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/162655_1658745960986_1607271639_1494866_2551776_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/s720x720/v4551/127/90/1607271639/n1607271639_257431_5623901.jpg

I tried clipless twice, and had problems with both SPD and Look pedals getting my right cleat engaged. My shop consulted Speedplay and tried to get the cleat mounted at an angle on the bottom of my right shoe, and I still had problems. So I gave up trying to force my feet into a roadie's shoes, so to speak, and just decided to be myself. I don't let a little thing like leaning to one side or having crooked legs stop me from riding....

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/s720x720/6817_1170780442153_1607271639_433694_2123287_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/s720x720/16753_1231344836225_1607271639_573093_4754778_n.jpg

I've ridden centuries, done two week long bike tours, and many other types of rides. That's because I'm an AmeriCAN, not an AmeriCAN'T. Almost as much a one as you are.

I am truly grateful beyond any explanation or word that is in my vernacular. I thank you all, it is late, I have an appt at the VA tomorrow morning then I am going to see a guy at San Diego bicycle warehouse that really knows his poop. after that I would like to respond to you all individually. Cyclists are some of the nicest people I have ever met, I truly am grateful I chose this sport, or was left with it as my last option. & Neil_B, get down wichyo bad self, you should be an inspiration to anyone that is fearful of getting into anything. Mad Props to you Brother.

+1 for speedplay, likely the best option for OP

+1 for speedplay, likely the best option for OP

I agree. He might need to have the cleat angled. This might mean the bottom of his cycling shoe will need to be altered in some way. When my shop tried to set me up with Speedplays they shaved off some of the tread on the mountain bike shoes I used.

The OP might want to consider extenders on the pedals as well, but he'd want to discuss that with a fitter. With my wide stance I need extenders to ride.

Neil_B, get down wichyo bad self, you should be an inspiration to anyone that is fearful of getting into anything. Mad Props to you Brother.

Thanks. If you ever get out to the Philadelphia, PA, area look me up.

BTW, it wasn't an accident that make me a bit different, it had to be a plan - I was born like this, more or less. :-)

+1 for speedplay, likely the best option for OP

I agree on the speedplays...and maybe a little jarhead engineering on one of the shoes.

Semper Fi, Mac!

I agree on the speedplays...and maybe a little jarhead engineering on one of the shoes.

Semper Fi, Mac!

My shop working on my shoes for Speedplays:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/3002188983_60bc4b3be8_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/3002180995_e6e0f2ea73_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3194/3002178387_17f61d1f71_b.jpg

consult a physical therapist who rides.
i did, and it changed my world for the better.
she gave me a list of mods, hit a bike shop (with older staff), checked me and the bike over, installed what parts they had (at no installation charge),
and ordered the rest. took a week. new parts on (again no installation charge), gently used parts donated to the shop for a less fortunate rider, they
insisted i take a 30% discount, and they made a friend for life.

keep pushing, mister!

ka0use (amateur radio callsign)
rodney
u.s. army 1953-1971 (my childhood)
u.s. army 1971-1974 ( i didn't learn the first time!)
good advice,(must be a ham thing...
Bud (also aWØ ).....

Semper Fi Devil Dog, I, in exact words "received the maximum benefit of all medical procedures and physical therapy that the USMC can provide & therefore this Marine is being recommended for discharge". Iv'e been home for several years. After trying to hit the weights and get back in shape with a vengeance & coming to the realization that my back would not allow me to get where I was & that realization, when it finally sank in, I just sat around trying to drink myself to death I even started smoking, I literally dint care if I woke up the next day for quite some time. And almost simultaneously at the exact same time I was contemplating my demise, while driving home one day rather than curse the cyclists that I used to have to drive around, I said "Hey, I could probably do that, I'll just forgo the spandex." LOL! So I went to the local bike shop & bought a Giant 3. I had them put a goose neck extender & them another one on top of that so i didnt have to bend over so far, I put "profile design" "Airstryke S" aerobars, all in an effort to save my back. So far so good, my back actually feels a bit better after only 1 month of ridding. As far as the VA goes it has become a comedy of errors, shoe lifts to compensate for the length discrepancy that they gave me were as useless as sticking a piece of metal under my heel in my shoe. So I went and bought several insoles and began to experiment, cutting, tapering & gluing these insoles into a comfortable lift I could virtually forget that is was in my shoe. I go back to the orthopedic dept at the local VAMC to see if maybe they have improved since the rock hard leather heel lifts they originally gave me. The doc says yeah were quite industrious here we'll get you hooked up, then he says let me see what you've got in there now, I hand him my shoe & a most puzzled look came across his face & he said that's better than anything we could do. I have a love hate relationship with the VAMC, they tried giving me children doctors, that had me strung out on opiates, which would be a week to 10 days late virtually every month. Withdrawals are a ***** especially for 4yrs in a row every month. I finally got my congressman involved approximately the same time i got into cycling, everything just fell into place almost all at once.
Sgt Mac..[QUOTE=HAMMER MAN;13144822]Sgt Mac..

Welcome home!! and thanks

i don't know if you have done this and do no know ifyou are active still in the wounded warrior platoon or you have been discharged or still active duty. if you have not contacted the VA, prostetics and orthotics I would suggest you do so.
The yare very inventive and inovative when it comes to leg injuries/foot injuires and different sport activities..

SEMPER FI

Speedplay are making my peddles & cleats as close to my specs as possible putting some lift in my cleat as reasonable. I was recommended shimano shoes by Stephano @ SD Bicycle warehouse who has taken a very personal stake in this & naturally I am stoked & greatfull.

My right peddle is getting as extended, great advice.
I agree. He might need to have the cleat angled. This might mean the bottom of his cycling shoe will need to be altered in some way. When my shop tried to set me up with Speedplays they shaved off some of the tread on the mountain bike shoes I used.

The OP might want to consider extenders on the pedals as well, but he'd want to discuss that with a fitter. With my wide stance I need extenders to ride.

Sgt Mac,
Do you know of an organization called Ride2Recovery?

Sgt Mac,
Do you know of an organization called Ride2Recovery?

No I have not, I have searched for ride clubs in San Diego, but so far no luck. I will search them. Thanks

Semper Fi

Please seek them out. They are a great resource for our wounded warriors who seek to overcome.

http://www.sandiego.networkofcare.org/veterans/news/detail.cfm?articleID=34615

http://ride2recovery.com/