Advocacy & Safety - Police attitudes towards bicyclists...

Disclaimer... not all police officers feel this way and many police officers are bike friendly. Even myself wanting to be a police officer am bike friendly... but...

I was reading a post on a cop forum, real police and it made me quite upset. It seems that many police officers have an interesting view on cyclists being on the road, obeying traffic laws, etc. Here is some of the things that I have read...

1. It is safer for c, exyclists (refering to cyclists as anyone riding a device requiring pedeling) to be on the sidewalk with the pedestrians. They have not rights to be on the road with traffic.

2. Cyclists cause 99 percent of their accidents with motorists and they are usually the ones thinking they are lance armstrong wearing USPS stuff...

3. Cyclists want to be as car but do not want to obey traffic laws, like stop signs.

4. Cyclists are always at fault on the road and have no right to be there...

5. Confrontations between cyclists and cars are always ignitiated by the cyclist not the motorist.

Please note that always also means most of the time, although some people use always.

My opinion...

Some officers only see one side of the story. Cyclists generally obey they law and do not cause accidents. It is generally the motorists that cause the accidents and not the cyclists and when it is the cyclists fault it is because they did not obey the law. Let me say something about the law that 90 percent of cyclists do not obey, stop signs.

Many of the people in the club that I ride with do not stop for "some" stop signs. For example there is a road where at night it is very very quiet. There is about 20 stop signs on this road in a 5 or so mile period with not cars at the stop sign. We all know how hard it is to be constantly stop and go. I tried stoping at evey sign once and it took me three times the time to get from one place to the other.

The spirit of the law is to obey stop signs to prevent accidents which is the case. In my opinion if there is not cars then we should not have to stop at the "small street" 4 way stops. Now for large streets where there is only 2 way or there is traffic then we must stop. We also must stop at all red lights for safety which is fine as signals area usually only at very busy streets.

As to accidents most are caused by cars not watching. That said when cyclists do not obey the laws then they are at fault. Who comes out on top, the car of course so any accident between a car and bicycle is horrible.

Another thing for those who may eventually read this thread, my opinions would NOT effect that way that I would enforce any of the above said laws as a police officer, unless there is the spirit vs the letter rules or warning vs citation... that said the law should be changed just like the law regarding cars turning right on red, etc.

What is everyones opinions on this...

I can only say two words to what you wrote:

Not

Surprised.

I would imagine most drivers feel the same way also.

I have a cordial relationship with the two traffic cops at the foot of the Brooklyn Bridge. Once every two weeks or so, I complain to them about the bike path on Adams Street being filled with cars, and they listen. Then they complain about their jobs and I listen. We say goodbye and smile and that's it.
Other than that, I have never had a positive experience with police as a cyclist. I've even tried to chat with bike cops and been met with disdain or suspicion.
It's not just cycling, btw. The culture of NYPD-civilian relationships has devolved to the point where any interaction with cops is at best strained. I have a couple of theories about why, but they'd get this thread bumped to Politics & Religion, I think.

Interesting comments from our law enforcers. No telling what locales they were all posting from, but here in TN I got tired of being treated like a 2nd-class citizen so I looked up the code for bikes a few years ago. I'm not gonna cut and paste it all, but it basically says that all non-pedestrian traffic is entitled to half the lane on the road(the right side of the lane, obviously). This includes bikes and horses(w & w/out buggy or wagon). Now, this may have changed since we've started getting more bike lanes and whatnot, but drivers' attitudes definitely have not. Sometimes I'd like to make a bunch of copies of that section of state code and carry 'em around with me to hand out/put on vehicles. I'd prolly get busted for soliciting, tho-LOL. Honestly, I think that education, rather than legislation, is the key to improving biker/driver/police relations. Unfortunately, as slow as passing a law can be, it's still a quicker fix than taking the time to educate the masses and enforce existing laws.

As far as disregard for traffic laws(esp. stop signs/lights) goes, I'm guilty of hopping on the sidewalk(which might be illegal here, dunno-haven't looked that part up yet) now and then to bypass lights, etc. The funny thing is that I never do that in my automobile. Well, I have driven up on the sidewalk in my younger days, but I mean that I always stop at every stop sign and try to observe every traffic law(except speeding--still workin' on that) while driving whether there's another vehicle around or not. I think that by reinforcing this habit, even when you're all alone out there, makes you able to operate your vehicle much more safely. I think this might even help to make up for the lack of attention many drivers exhibit. Mebbe not.... Ah, well--just had to get that off my chest.

Any chance of a link, I'd like to read more and "exchange ideas" w/ them?

LOL! Don't know how constructive ^that would be...but good luck!

On quiet streets with little traffic, if I can see both ways before reaching an intersection, I will often run a stop sign.

However, if I were observed by a police officer doing so, I would expect to be stopped and ticketed. In that case I'd keep my mouth shut and pay the fine. I just can't argue that it is OK to break the law, whether in a motor vehicle or on a bike by claiming it was OK on the basis that my infraction did not cause an accident.

Inconvenience is what I am trying to avoid by rolling through a stop sign. I still know it is illegal.

Www.copforums.net? hehe.

Hey guys, we're on a war footing here! The cops are the front lines against all the terrorist bikers and long haired hippies and engaged gays! Let's show them some courtesy! :rolleyes: ;)

How does a conservative warmonger neocon fit into that profile?

Guess if I ride in CM they'll leave me alone :D

There is a reason you don't need a college degree to be a cop. Seems like something you would want someone with above average intelligence to do, but that would cost money.

To be fair and I'm not saying that this is 100% right, but cops do have a fairly sucky and thankless job. No matter what their intentions when they first join the force they fairly quickly realize this and look to each other as a support group to get them through. They very quickly develope an "us and them" attitude. That's why you very rarely have a possitive experiance with cops, and why you are greeted with suspiction (as a civilian in general, not as a cyclist). It's part of their defense. They simply don't know if you are friendly, about to verbally harrange them, or physically assault them. The old saying just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you does go double for cops. THe only time a cop can really relax is around other cops.

They do tend to lump groups together and make broad general statements. It's also known as profiling. I'm not saying that any of this is right, or is fair. I just try to understand where someone else is coming from.

By the way. I am not a cop. I know there are some cops on this forum and would be glad to see them sound off here.

Many of the people in the club that I ride with do not stop for "some" stop signs. For example there is a road where at night it is very very quiet. There is about 20 stop signs on this road in a 5 or so mile period with not cars at the stop sign. We all know how hard it is to be constantly stop and go. I tried stoping at evey sign once and it took me three times the time to get from one place to the other.

I'm familiar with that stretch of road. I ride it regularly. (Victoria Avenue, right?) I treat the stop signs as yield signs. I coast up to them and if there's no cars comming, I ride through. If there's a car, I will make eye contact. Lots of times they will wave me through. I always give a little salute back. A couple of times I have slowed for an intersection, only to have another cyclist blow through, scaring the crap out of me. In my opinion, you have to use common sense.

My county has over 100 police agencies. There are about ten active police agencies in my neighborhood. So, it would be hard to describe an "attitude" to would cover every officer, at every agency.

However, as a general thing, I have noticed that officers in my neighborhood tend to be flexible and courteous when dealing with people riding expensive looking bikes and wearing the official "Look Just Like Lance" outfits.

They are "medium" in attitude toward people such as myself, riding bikes that are usually rather old, but ridden by an anglo male, as are 90% of the police officers. They are not real friendly, but leave me alone as long as I am riding is something like a reasonable manner.

Their attitude toward Black males and Hispanic males riding through the neighborhood is one of suspicion, involving many stops for "this, that, and the other", with questions about why they are in the neighborhood, where they are coming from, where they are going, is it really their bike...

And, the same three levels of attitude are evident when the police deal with drivers of vehicles, depending on the cost of the vehicle, and the paleness, or lack of paleness of the person driving the vehicle.

I'm familiar with that stretch of road. I ride it regularly. (Victoria Avenue, right?) I treat the stop signs as yield signs. I coast up to them and if there's no cars comming, I ride through. If there's a car, I will make eye contact. Lots of times they will wave me through. I always give a little salute back. A couple of times I have slowed for an intersection, only to have another cyclist blow through, scaring the crap out of me. In my opinion, you have to use common sense.

Yep ypu are right, just rode 3- miles through there last night.


You do not need a collage degree...

I do not know if you know but it is not easy to be hired as a police officer, 9 months later and you can be dqed for the smallest thing. Funny thing is many cops have degrees, look at myself, lots of college wanting to be cops.

What we really need is cops that understand bicyclists... not to many bike cops pulling other bicyclists over...

Oh ya and I would never run through a light... dangerous...

... They are "medium" in attitude toward people such as myself, riding bikes that are usually rather old, but ridden by an anglo male, as are 90% of the police officers. They are not real friendly, but leave me alone as long as I am riding is something like a reasonable manner.

Their attitude toward Black males and Hispanic males riding through the neighborhood is one of suspicion, involving many stops for "this, that, and the other", with questions about why they are in the neighborhood, where they are coming from, where they are going, is it really their bike ...

Oh, great, now we have "cycling while black." Where do you live?

I agree that cyclists generally don't obey traffic laws. It's as if stop signs don't exist.

There were numbers here saying that in 80% or 90% of accidents involving cyclists, the cyclist were at fault.

But I'd say cops are 2nd worst drivers, just behind taxis.

But I'd say cops are 2nd worst drivers, just behind taxis.

Cocksure little buggers, eh! :D

[QUOTE=my58vw

My opinion...

Some officers only see one side of the story. Cyclists generally obey they law and do not cause accidents. It is generally the motorists that cause the accidents and not the cyclists and when it is the cyclists fault it is because they did not obey the law. Let me say something about the law that 90 percent of cyclists do not obey, stop signs.
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure which one is true ... Cyclist generally obey the law or the 90 percent do not obey stop signs (hence breaking the law).

Ok they obey the law except the ones regarding stop signs. Most cyclists signal, use the bike lane, stop at red lights etc. Stop signs are another issue altogether...

Ok, I'm a retired cop and spent most of my time in Traffic so I can shed some light. Retired from San Diego P.D. and what I saw may surprise you. MOST of the bicycle accidents did not involve serious cyclists. Most were kids or inexperienced riders. Yes, kids we like to see on the sidewalks because of the increased speeds of the cars and the kids not realizing the hazards of riding with cars and bottom line nobody likes seeing a kid hit by a car. Serious riders usually got doored or had their head down and hit a stationary object. The only tickets most cops write are equipment violations like riding at night without lights, kinda obvious reason why. I am a serious rider now, put over 3000 on the bike this year, but I still remember the basic rule of physics, car vs bike, bike looses. My thinking is that all the other drivers are two years old and I have to take care of them, they don't know better. Keeps my attitude in check and keeps me focused on the big picture, having fun in life while God grants me another day on this Earth. Keep the rubber side down, Jim



By the way. I am not a cop. I know there are some cops on this forum and would be glad to see them sound off here.

It's simple to categorize all cops as cyclist-haters. However, this is obviously not the case always. You need to give them the benefit of the doubt. I still feel this way after being nearly struck by a cop this year. I won't get into the detials, but he buzzed me on purpose - coming within 6 inches of my bars @ speed. That cop is a cyclist-hater, and a jerk to boot. The rest of the lot ... well I'm still going to give them a chance.

, car vs bike, bike looses

You mean lose?

Yea that's right. God I hate it when spell check doesn't read my mind.


You mean lose?

What bothers me is that fact that many officers (not all) think every bicyclist is the same which is not true. I can see how many of the "non experienced" 100 dollar bike cyclists can cause accidents. The way the original posts were read was that it was the "serious law breaking cyclists that think they are in the TDF wearing the USPS uniforms..." cause all the accidents. Thank you for sheding some light on the topic. Like I said in the disclaimer I am not a police officer yet (if everything goes well will be soon). I can not say that "every" person feels the same way but it only takes 1 or 2 officers to shade opinions.

I was actually stoped on a bike once because the officer did not think I signaled long enough. If I had a different attitude about police officers I could think that they are all like that. Of course I know quite a few officers that are avid bicyclists too... everyone is different, no stereotyping here...

Oh yes and bicyclists are one of the most stereotyped groups I have seen in a while... :eek:

Oh yes car vs bike... 99 percent the car wins but sometimes that is not the case... I heard of a collision where a car clipped a cyclists some time ago and the cyclists fell, minor injurues but the driver spun out and hit a wall and recieved major injuries... (now to remember where I read that... oh well)

I haven't had much interaction with police while riding. I'm sure some officers understand traffic law as it applies to cycling and some don't. I have the opinion that any interaction with police can revolve around your attitude, and respect of their position (even if they are wrong). Arguing will get you no where, explaining the law as it applies in your state may, however you may also appear argumentative.

I cycle vehicularly (follow traffic law/take the lane etc). One of the primary reasons I don't blow through stop signs is that I don't drive very much these days. If I make a habit of blowing stop signs while cycling, I'd fear it would become second nature for me to do so while driving as well (and again it is the law).

If I feel the need to "run" a red light while cycling, I stop, dismount and am now legally a pedestrian and cross(in the crosswalk). There is one such light I do so every day on my commute home (a bike path street crossing at an intersection). I used to get off the bike path, "take the lane" at the front of the line of cars and wait for the green. This blocks right turning traffic though, and walking across this intersection is faster.

Seeker...some very good points in your post! I agree with some but not all. Ok..I am a Cop/pig/the law/5-O/Po-po to name a few of the things (nicer things I am called.) lol I am also a Bike cop. Avid Cyclist, Cycling Advocate. I'm call the bike guy in my dept. I can say this...in NY most P.O. do need a College Degree or at least 60 credit hours. Our Agency (State University Police) has had this requirement for quite some time. In fact long before the NYS Troopers had the 60 credit hour requirement! I can say that a majority of my fellow officers have a 4 year degree. (Mine is in Business Manangement) While I have several complaints about the job I just won't go there! OK... I'd like a retirement like all the other cops have! Right now I have to work 30 years and be 55 in order to retire. (Thats the same retirement that is offered to the secretaries and librarians) I think I deserve better! ok..ok...sorry ranting over!

Depending where you are....I am sure that not all Police view cyclist as tree huggin', hippie terrorist. CM imho is a bit left-wing for me. My whole philosophy is treat others....like you would like to be treated. Smile and say hi....to the next Officer you ride by. Maybe he/she will say hi the next time!...or the next!
We are all human here! I put my pants on just like you do and just like "W" does.

Pedal On,

Bob Light

PS: Feel free to email me your flames directly!

I think we'll find a lot of cops not really understanding things, and following laws that are ridiculous. When a woman in my club had a car turn left in front of her, and she couldn't turn hard right enough so they collided, the police on the scene were going over the bike and actually checked the brakes. When asked why they did this, the officer siad he was supposed to. I wonder what his response would have been if he'd been asked if he was going to check the car's brakes, which he didn't do? I asked the cyclist that was there if the police checked the woman's windshield to see if it ahd been cleaned, and was told they didn't go near the inside of the woman's car.

It all boils down to knowledge on both parts... misunderstanding and such are just problems waiting to happen...

It all boils down to knowledge on both parts... misunderstanding and such are just problems waiting to happen...

Exactly. Communication is key!

The police in my city don't give a hoot about cyclists. The only thing I don't do as a cyclist is signal when, I am changing lanes because of a problem with my balance. If I suddenly take a hand off the handlebars, I will most likely crash. As a result of this, when I need to change lanes, I make a quick glance behind me to see if any traffic is in the other lane and, if there is, how fast they are going. If it happens that, I need to get in the left-turn lane for an upcoming intersection and, the traffic is too heavy, I continue in the same lane and, find a place to turn around. I wouldn't be surprised if, I am the most:

1. Noticeable
2. Annoying
3. Traveled

Cyclist in the city.

I don't think police see me. They've never acknowledged me. I ride down to our local sporting event (100k+ people), which of course is gridlock, with traffic cops everywhere. After years of experience, I now just do whatever I want that's safe for me. Cops look right through me. I'm invisible. I love it. btw these same cops have no problem screaming at stupid motorists, hitting hoods with nightsticks, etc. I have no doubt if I was bothering them they'd let me know. But my very favorite is 'on yer left'ing the 2 surly cycle cops who show up on my bike trail every month or so.

I have a slight advantage here as I live next to a University. As you can imagine where there are kids going to school- there will be lots of bike traffic. The cops around here are reasonably courteous to us speed demons. They don't bother us as long as we aren't endangering peds or motorists by recklessly breaking traffic laws. Heck the officers that patrol the campus (dedicated to that task) also patrol my neighborhood and I regularly wave when I see them.

The US vs THEM theory is pretty much correct. Ask any cop what he is thinking when he is serving a supeona to a crack house. It surely is along the lines of self preservation. They are paid (sorta) to deal with the crap society produces and are so regularly immersed in "that" world that even something as innocent as a cyclist speeding by their position seems , if for just a brief moment, a direct threat.

I also live in TN and last time I looked at the books my city, Memphis was the ONLY city in the state where it is LEGAL to ride on the sidewalk. Gotta change that one.

It amazes me what "types" of cyclists are singled out by the NYPD.
-For the most part, people who look "liberal" are the ones they go after. Bike Messenger looking people, alternative looking people, and anti-war looking people.
-They are not going to arrest a Mexican delivery boy, nor a Chinese delivery boy.These cyclists run red lights just as much as the "liberal" cyclist, and ride on the sidewalk constantly.
-They are not going to arrest cyclists who have expensive gear and expensive bikes.
-They are not going to arrest middle aged women cyclists who look clean and respectable.

Does this seem right on the nose? I may be wrong about the whole theory, but it's what I've seen happen as far as arrests go.

With all this talk about blowing stop signs...how many motorists actually stop "properly" for a stop sign? Very very VERY few. Everybody knows and accepts this. If you proceed with sufficient caution you'll never get ticketed for it unless you happen to be doing something else wrong as well. It works the same way for bikes.

The police are just working Joes drawn from the "working classes" of our local society. I'd expect that they're better than the average Joe since they have some basic training in the law and some experience dealing with all sorts of oddball people. Don't expect Superman.

Depending where you are....I am sure that not all Police view cyclist as tree huggin', hippie terrorist. CM imho is a bit left-wing for me. My whole philosophy is treat others....like you would like to be treated. Smile and say hi....to the next Officer you ride by. Maybe he/she will say hi the next time!...or the next!
We are all human here! I put my pants on just like you do and just like "W" does.

Pedal On,

Bob Light

PS: Feel free to email me your flames directly!

Yes. I am with you there about CM a bit left-wing. At one time, the British must have felt the same way about the U.S. Constitution, the First Amendment and all that pinko commie propaganda about the right to bear arms. Some pretty radical, extremist ****.

What part of the First Amendment does college-educated police officers NOT understand?

Which parts of traffic law do CM cyclists NOT understand. Sure, go ahead ride, but ride responsibly, respect gets respect. A couple thousand cyclists riding and following traffic law is an amazing site to behold (happens every day in foreign cities).

Which parts of traffic law do CM cyclists NOT understand. Sure, go ahead ride, but ride responsibly, respect gets respect. A couple thousand cyclists riding and following traffic law is an amazing site to behold (happens every day in foreign cities).

If you listen to the streamed live audio coverage, the police were arresting people who weren't even part of the RNC CM. I don't know about you. But, my conclusion was the police were intent on cracking down on people who insists on exercising their free speech rights, and not really about enforcing the traffic laws.

The police seem to be at the scene to shut people up.