MobiusX
09-03-11, 04:12 AM
so I recorded the area where I'm currently living to show how this suburban sprawl design failed to include pedestrians and bicyclists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120ykwgHL4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120ykwgHL4M
Living Car Free - Suburban Sprawl in Georgia
Bikeforums.net is a forum about nothing but bikes. Our community can help you find information about hard-to-find and localized information like bicycle tours, specialties like where in your area to have your recumbent bike serviced, or what are the best bicycle tires and seats for the activities you use your bike for.I-Like-To-Bike
09-03-11, 07:21 AM
so I recorded the area where I'm currently living to show how this suburban sprawl design failed to include pedestrians and bicyclists
What bicycle "design" was failed to be included? The streets on the video looked fine for cycling as is.
What bicycle "design" was failed to be included? The streets on the video looked fine for cycling as is.
MobiusX
09-03-11, 07:47 AM
What bicycle "design" was failed to be included? The streets on the video looked fine for cycling as is.
cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
Roody
09-03-11, 08:39 AM
The youtube link doesn't work for me. Is this the right video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120ykwgHL4M
If it is the right video--I agree that it's real ugly sprawl and they probably devastated a lot of farmland and forests to put in a few ugly McMansions. With this crappy design, it's going to be hard for this community (if that's the right word) to sustain public transit and walking as transportation alternatives. A better alternative would have been to put the mansions close to the main highway with much smaller yards, and put a common open space behind them for gardens, recreation and wildlife habitat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=120ykwgHL4M
If it is the right video--I agree that it's real ugly sprawl and they probably devastated a lot of farmland and forests to put in a few ugly McMansions. With this crappy design, it's going to be hard for this community (if that's the right word) to sustain public transit and walking as transportation alternatives. A better alternative would have been to put the mansions close to the main highway with much smaller yards, and put a common open space behind them for gardens, recreation and wildlife habitat.
Roody
09-03-11, 08:57 AM
cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
Robert Foster
09-03-11, 11:03 AM
I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
The town is only 24 square miles, how far can anything be? :rolleyes: The property boundaries were established well before cars. It started as a stagecoach stop, later a railroad stop but wasn't really designed because of being car centric because many of the roads came about when they had horses and wagons. :lol: The Mcmansions are about half of the size as they were between 1850 and 1872 if you get my drift. :eek: There are less that 19,000 people living in that town. It seems as if sprawl came about as a natural thing without the help of cars originally. :D . In this case like carpet baggers most of the complaints are coming from transported northerners at heart.:innocent:
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
The town is only 24 square miles, how far can anything be? :rolleyes: The property boundaries were established well before cars. It started as a stagecoach stop, later a railroad stop but wasn't really designed because of being car centric because many of the roads came about when they had horses and wagons. :lol: The Mcmansions are about half of the size as they were between 1850 and 1872 if you get my drift. :eek: There are less that 19,000 people living in that town. It seems as if sprawl came about as a natural thing without the help of cars originally. :D . In this case like carpet baggers most of the complaints are coming from transported northerners at heart.:innocent:
MobiusX
09-03-11, 02:30 PM
I agree with ILTB that the cycling looks easy-peasy in this area. The traffic in the video was light, and I doubt if you would have 100 cars overtaking you. I often have 100 cars overtake me on busy city streets, and I don't have a problem with that. It's what drivers are supposed to do when they encounter slower traffic.
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
I already counted how many cars passed by me in only 50 minutes. 60 cars had to go to the other lane. I rode the bike to the library which took 1 hr and 10 minutes and at least 90 had to move to the other lane. It took me almost 3 hours to walk to the library.
The problem is when they don't move over to pass you. But that can happen in the city too, or even in a bike lane or paved shoulder. Fortunately car-bike collisions are fairly rare.
From a cycling perspective, the only problem I see on the video is how far apart every thing is. It would be a fairly long ride to a store, worksite or library. As for walking, I imagine it would be a fairly long trek just to go to the neighbor's house for a cup of coffee.
I already counted how many cars passed by me in only 50 minutes. 60 cars had to go to the other lane. I rode the bike to the library which took 1 hr and 10 minutes and at least 90 had to move to the other lane. It took me almost 3 hours to walk to the library.
MobiusX
09-03-11, 02:34 PM
The town is only 24 square miles, how far can anything be? :rolleyes: The property boundaries were established well before cars. It started as a stagecoach stop, later a railroad stop but wasn't really designed because of being car centric because many of the roads came about when they had horses and wagons. :lol: The Mcmansions are about half of the size as they were between 1850 and 1872 if you get my drift. :eek: There are less that 19,000 people living in that town. It seems as if sprawl came about as a natural thing without the help of cars originally. :D . In this case like carpet baggers most of the complaints are coming from transported northerners at heart.:innocent:
Hey, you're back on my posts. I expected you to come. Welcome back.
Hey, you're back on my posts. I expected you to come. Welcome back.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-03-11, 02:40 PM
I already counted how many cars passed by me in only 50 minutes. 60 cars had to go to the other lane. I rode the bike to the library which took 1 hr and 10 minutes and at least 90 had to move to the other lane.
Are you serious? Cars passed me, whah, whah,whah!
One word comment: BFD!
Are you serious? Cars passed me, whah, whah,whah!
One word comment: BFD!
MobiusX
09-03-11, 02:48 PM
90 cars had to move to the other lane and increase the chances of getting into a car accident simply because 1 person was riding a bike???????????????? that's ridiculous, this is the quintessential suburban sprawl
I-Like-To-Bike
09-03-11, 02:51 PM
cycling for commuting, not exercising, it's not fine when over 100 cars are forced to move to the other lane just so they won't hit you, it's not fine when you can't practice a car free lifestyle since this place is designed specifically for cars and not people, especially not fine when reliable public transportation does not exist.
Baloney. The roads potrayed are fine for commuting, what the heck are you talking about? Where in the world have you been commuting on public streets and not have motor vehicles pass you? Presence or absence of reliable public transportation does not affect the ease of cycling on such quiet wide residential streets.
BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.
Baloney. The roads potrayed are fine for commuting, what the heck are you talking about? Where in the world have you been commuting on public streets and not have motor vehicles pass you? Presence or absence of reliable public transportation does not affect the ease of cycling on such quiet wide residential streets.
BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.
Caretaker
09-03-11, 02:53 PM
As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
MobiusX
09-03-11, 03:16 PM
As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
This is correct. The only information that these houses are giving you is that cars live there. Community here is nonexistent. There is nothing going on. It's like a war had just took place, but the people are still in the house because they don't know that it's over yet.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
This is correct. The only information that these houses are giving you is that cars live there. Community here is nonexistent. There is nothing going on. It's like a war had just took place, but the people are still in the house because they don't know that it's over yet.
gerv
09-03-11, 03:18 PM
As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
That what I noticed when I first moved to the US. Lots of cars, but suburbs has no sidewalks, no children around, no bicycles, no peds. The only time you see neighbours is when they are out on the riding mower doing the lawn :(
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
That what I noticed when I first moved to the US. Lots of cars, but suburbs has no sidewalks, no children around, no bicycles, no peds. The only time you see neighbours is when they are out on the riding mower doing the lawn :(
Robert Foster
09-03-11, 04:42 PM
As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
Caretaker
09-03-11, 05:03 PM
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
No I don't think there is anywhere in Ireland that has houses but no people to be seen. We don't have retirement villages. The better off go and live in their apartments in Spain to avoid the winter. Everybody else generally stays where they are.
The area shown in the video looks attractive in a superficial way but it must get boring after a while. Doesn't look like there's much craic happening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
No I don't think there is anywhere in Ireland that has houses but no people to be seen. We don't have retirement villages. The better off go and live in their apartments in Spain to avoid the winter. Everybody else generally stays where they are.
The area shown in the video looks attractive in a superficial way but it must get boring after a while. Doesn't look like there's much craic happening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic
MobiusX
09-03-11, 05:03 PM
We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
trying to communicate with another person from inside a car is the equivalent of using a cup and string, it simply does not work, it just tells you that people get excited easily when they see other people, this place can make anybody feel lonely
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
trying to communicate with another person from inside a car is the equivalent of using a cup and string, it simply does not work, it just tells you that people get excited easily when they see other people, this place can make anybody feel lonely
Caretaker
09-03-11, 05:21 PM
No I don't think there is anywhere in Ireland that has houses but no people to be seen.
Sorry I lie, we do have zombie housing estates. A couple of zombie banks also. But that's another story.
Sorry I lie, we do have zombie housing estates. A couple of zombie banks also. But that's another story.
I-Like-To-Bike
09-03-11, 07:58 PM
...this place can make anybody feel lonely
The real bottom line issue for this thread, the OP's social/cultural problem with being a fish out of water in this location. I suggest this thread be moved to Foo or P&R because it has nothing to do with bicycles or living car free.
The real bottom line issue for this thread, the OP's social/cultural problem with being a fish out of water in this location. I suggest this thread be moved to Foo or P&R because it has nothing to do with bicycles or living car free.
Wiggles_dad
09-03-11, 08:24 PM
I feel you man. I used to live in Atlanta, GA. However, now I live in Salt Lake City and I can tell you that the sprawl is bad here too. In fact, I'd venture to say that suburbia anywhere has the same issues you are discussing here. The South is particularly car-centric due to its hot and humid weather and rural farmer upbringings.
I grew up in a small town in SC and everyone just drives big SUVs and trucks a couple of miles on flat roads to work. Biking would make sense!
I grew up in a small town in SC and everyone just drives big SUVs and trucks a couple of miles on flat roads to work. Biking would make sense!
Cyclepup
09-03-11, 08:29 PM
Those streets looked very inviting to me...not much traffic at all. We have the same sprawl where we live and as many cars on our 2-lane roads. I just don't see the problem.
Robert Foster
09-03-11, 08:30 PM
Sorry I lie, we do have zombie housing estates. A couple of zombie banks also. But that's another story.
:lol: That is OK the Zombies like it. And Spain is almost as close to Ireland as Georgia is to me. I have lived in Some big cities and found them not to be my cup of tea. LA and Seattle were my home for for a few years during my early adult years. To me it was a bit like living in a pigeon coup or maybe an ant hill. Some of my family thrive on it. Some do not. One of my sisters lives on the Yakama Indian reservation and that is 180 degrees from how we grew up.
We have our places like Spain however, many of our well healed New Yorkers have a second home in the Hamptons. In fact I have another sister who just moved to Long Island herself. She married a golf pro. Now they are looking for a place in Nicaragua to retire. Many small towns in the south fit the same purpose, quiet living, lower crime, less expensive housing so your retirement money goes farther.
On the other hand my nephew is an urbanite at heart and would love to move to NYC. :eek:
Cars didn't cause our urban and suburban sprawl. They gave people looking for a way out a tool to leave. LA had Suburban development well before cars and supported it through the Red Car system. The sprawl the OP is talking about would be exactly the same even without cars, because it started well before cars came to the area. The fact is it is not that difficult to see it as a place you can get around on a bike. check out the map and see if you couldn't get around without a car?
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Cartersville&state=GA
How hard can it be?
:lol: That is OK the Zombies like it. And Spain is almost as close to Ireland as Georgia is to me. I have lived in Some big cities and found them not to be my cup of tea. LA and Seattle were my home for for a few years during my early adult years. To me it was a bit like living in a pigeon coup or maybe an ant hill. Some of my family thrive on it. Some do not. One of my sisters lives on the Yakama Indian reservation and that is 180 degrees from how we grew up.
We have our places like Spain however, many of our well healed New Yorkers have a second home in the Hamptons. In fact I have another sister who just moved to Long Island herself. She married a golf pro. Now they are looking for a place in Nicaragua to retire. Many small towns in the south fit the same purpose, quiet living, lower crime, less expensive housing so your retirement money goes farther.
On the other hand my nephew is an urbanite at heart and would love to move to NYC. :eek:
Cars didn't cause our urban and suburban sprawl. They gave people looking for a way out a tool to leave. LA had Suburban development well before cars and supported it through the Red Car system. The sprawl the OP is talking about would be exactly the same even without cars, because it started well before cars came to the area. The fact is it is not that difficult to see it as a place you can get around on a bike. check out the map and see if you couldn't get around without a car?
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Cartersville&state=GA
How hard can it be?
Roody
09-03-11, 09:20 PM
Baloney. The roads potrayed are fine for commuting, what the heck are you talking about? Where in the world have you been commuting on public streets and not have motor vehicles pass you? Presence or absence of reliable public transportation does not affect the ease of cycling on such quiet wide residential streets.
BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.
I have to agree with you on this one. The notion that it's dangerous for cars to overtake bikes is absurd and anti-bike in the extreme. Bike advocacy for 100 years has emphasized that bikes and cars can co-exist. And bike transportation would be absolutely impossible if bikes were forced to go only where cars wouldn't ever have to ovrtake them.
BTW, I recommend that you clean your windshield before recording your next video show.
I have to agree with you on this one. The notion that it's dangerous for cars to overtake bikes is absurd and anti-bike in the extreme. Bike advocacy for 100 years has emphasized that bikes and cars can co-exist. And bike transportation would be absolutely impossible if bikes were forced to go only where cars wouldn't ever have to ovrtake them.
Roody
09-03-11, 09:24 PM
We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities. Some people prefer space and we happen to have the space they can live in. The area of Georgia that is being discussed was never a big city it was a small town or village that grew outside of its central section. People that live there most often move there for a slower quieter lifestyle and one the OP finds far too accepting. He has complained that children and adults have waved to him from their cars and they don’t even know him. Can you imagine? Someone even tried to strike up a small talk conversation in a store with the OP as if they had something to say he might be interested in. The problem here is not Sprawl but wanderlust. Most often a condition that afflicts younger adults.
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles. ;)
The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.
But think of some of the places in the South of the US like you would some of your small villages in Ireland. http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide (http://www.frommers.com/slideshow/index.cfm?p=1&group=267&cat_cd=ARTCULTURE#slide)
They may not be to everyone’s liking and they might not attract many kids but don’t the people that live there like the places?
If we were discussing the Suburbs of Atlanta or LA there might be a point in how hard it would be to Cycle on those streets. But not a place many would consider a place to retire. I don’t know how it works in Ireland but in the US there are whole communities designed specifically so that people will move to them when they retire. The funny thing is they look a lot like Cartersville Georgia. And like I said it is only 24 square miles so just how far can the stores be? If someone lived on one side of town the other side fo town would be five miles away. Maybe a bit farther considering the city isn't square.
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles. ;)
The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.
Robert Foster
09-03-11, 09:59 PM
:lol:
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles. ;)
The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.
I don't know if you have ever walked much in the South but to me it isn't good at the best of times.:D But like I said as small as that town is and as close as shopping is cycling should be no problem. I wouldn't think there is much trouble with a dial a ride service or something like it, if you need a bus. But with that few people how many would be using a bus anyway? I have been to Portland and many of the distances would be farther than 5 miles, not all I agree but way more than 60-90 or 100 cars will go by. Yes the bike would be my first choice of alternative transportation in that town but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some form of shuttle service for the populace. But if you and people you know can ride in the snow and ice someone could ride a bike in that town. The only reason I used you as an example is because I would move if we got snow and Ice.:lol: I might buy a bent if I lived there, it is pretty flat.;)
I'm afraid that I have to agree with you as well as ILTB. Oh well, stranger things have happened--like fish riding bicycles. ;)
The community depicted in the video looks very inviting--for people who are dependant on the automobile for almost all of their transportation. It looks OK for bikes, if you don't mind doing big distances every day. It looks like hell on earth for pedestrians and bus riders.
I don't know if you have ever walked much in the South but to me it isn't good at the best of times.:D But like I said as small as that town is and as close as shopping is cycling should be no problem. I wouldn't think there is much trouble with a dial a ride service or something like it, if you need a bus. But with that few people how many would be using a bus anyway? I have been to Portland and many of the distances would be farther than 5 miles, not all I agree but way more than 60-90 or 100 cars will go by. Yes the bike would be my first choice of alternative transportation in that town but I wouldn't be surprised if they have some form of shuttle service for the populace. But if you and people you know can ride in the snow and ice someone could ride a bike in that town. The only reason I used you as an example is because I would move if we got snow and Ice.:lol: I might buy a bent if I lived there, it is pretty flat.;)
MobiusX
09-04-11, 03:18 AM
Those streets looked very inviting to me...not much traffic at all. We have the same sprawl where we live and as many cars on our 2-lane roads. I just don't see the problem.
not too many cars at that specific time, it increases later through the day and only gets worse and more dangerous when you keep riding the opposite direction I recorded which is where the stores are. Most of the video was only the subdivision. You have to escape that itself and ride where cars are passing 50mph and continue, I guess I will have to record another video to show how it is.
not too many cars at that specific time, it increases later through the day and only gets worse and more dangerous when you keep riding the opposite direction I recorded which is where the stores are. Most of the video was only the subdivision. You have to escape that itself and ride where cars are passing 50mph and continue, I guess I will have to record another video to show how it is.
Roody
09-04-11, 08:57 AM
not too many cars at that specific time, it increases later through the day and only gets worse and more dangerous when you keep riding the opposite direction I recorded which is where the stores are. Most of the video was only the subdivision. You have to escape that itself and ride where cars are passing 50mph and continue, I guess I will have to record another video to show how it is.
Have you ever thought about taking a class in traffic cycling? That would increase your self-confidence and skills. You might end up feeling better about riding on these roads. Frankly, they don't look too bad.
The League of American Bicyclists (http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/course_schedule.php) might have an instructor in your area, or you could check with a local bike shop.
Have you ever thought about taking a class in traffic cycling? That would increase your self-confidence and skills. You might end up feeling better about riding on these roads. Frankly, they don't look too bad.
The League of American Bicyclists (http://www.bikeleague.org/programs/education/course_schedule.php) might have an instructor in your area, or you could check with a local bike shop.
chewybrian
09-04-11, 10:35 AM
As a non-American the thing that struck me is that you could drive for over five minutes and only see one person about 4 mins in walking up their driveway.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
This is sadly typical, but was not always the case. In the 70's and 80's, we lived in neighborhoods that looked like this, with the difference that the streets were full of us kids, playing nerf football, wiffleball, frisbee, skateboarding or biking. On nice days, we were outside almost all day.
Kids have become more sedentary, often choosing television or video games over outside activities. And parents are becoming more irrationally fearful, thanks to scare tactics used to get news ratings. Parents are so afraid that kids rarely even walk or bike to school any more. As a result, kids are getting to be obese at alarming rates. This (obesity) is the scary news where the risk is real, and parents should be paying attention.
To the original point, it does not seem practical to build and maintain sidewalks on roads like these. The amount of sidewalk needed for the potential use does not seem like a good trade-off. As a kid, I played all the time on streets like these. Someone would yell 'car' every few minutes, and you would clear out, and then get back to the game when they passed. If it would work for a kids' football game, I don't see why anyone should be fearful to head out on their bike through the neighborhoods.
No kids playing. No one walking or cycling anywhere.
Nice houses and big garages but it all looks a bit deserted to me.
This is sadly typical, but was not always the case. In the 70's and 80's, we lived in neighborhoods that looked like this, with the difference that the streets were full of us kids, playing nerf football, wiffleball, frisbee, skateboarding or biking. On nice days, we were outside almost all day.
Kids have become more sedentary, often choosing television or video games over outside activities. And parents are becoming more irrationally fearful, thanks to scare tactics used to get news ratings. Parents are so afraid that kids rarely even walk or bike to school any more. As a result, kids are getting to be obese at alarming rates. This (obesity) is the scary news where the risk is real, and parents should be paying attention.
To the original point, it does not seem practical to build and maintain sidewalks on roads like these. The amount of sidewalk needed for the potential use does not seem like a good trade-off. As a kid, I played all the time on streets like these. Someone would yell 'car' every few minutes, and you would clear out, and then get back to the game when they passed. If it would work for a kids' football game, I don't see why anyone should be fearful to head out on their bike through the neighborhoods.
cyclocello
09-04-11, 12:57 PM
I live in an area that makes it hard to be car-free. The community I live in is similar to this one in Georgia, but more of an outlying suburb where people move to raise their kids with a town center. Where I live is on the outskirts of town, and it takes at least 3 miles to do anything. If I lived in town proper, I could hit everything within a mile. Despite this, only people very close to a store (less than a 1/4 mi) will walk to do errands.
The neighboring city is a bit more sprawled but there is enough of a shopping locus, and the downtown is a decent place for alternate transportation, despite the fact most people who shop downtown or a strip mall will drive across the parking lot to get to another store, when it would only take a minute or two walking.
My job is in the neighboring city, and so is school. It takes at least 10 miles to get there, through country roads very similar to the ones in the video. The traffic is persistent, I really don't care to count how many cars pass me. But they all are pretty mindful, with only a few exceptions. That's just human nature.
So I'm looking at 21-30mi a day just to get things done, and I can feel lonely, rarely seeing another cyclist (who isn't training), and being isolated out in the country. But when I think about it, it's the choices I made. I could get an apt that's small in downtown and be able to walk and cycle everywhere without even having to change clothes, but I chose a cheaper, more remote place along the orchards, with a garden and a yard for my dog, a barn, and plenty of roaming space, peaceful and quiet.
It's just the choices.. I'm sure this town in Georgia has residences you can step outside of, talk with people, and go do shopping and get things done with less than a mile of walking.
The neighboring city is a bit more sprawled but there is enough of a shopping locus, and the downtown is a decent place for alternate transportation, despite the fact most people who shop downtown or a strip mall will drive across the parking lot to get to another store, when it would only take a minute or two walking.
My job is in the neighboring city, and so is school. It takes at least 10 miles to get there, through country roads very similar to the ones in the video. The traffic is persistent, I really don't care to count how many cars pass me. But they all are pretty mindful, with only a few exceptions. That's just human nature.
So I'm looking at 21-30mi a day just to get things done, and I can feel lonely, rarely seeing another cyclist (who isn't training), and being isolated out in the country. But when I think about it, it's the choices I made. I could get an apt that's small in downtown and be able to walk and cycle everywhere without even having to change clothes, but I chose a cheaper, more remote place along the orchards, with a garden and a yard for my dog, a barn, and plenty of roaming space, peaceful and quiet.
It's just the choices.. I'm sure this town in Georgia has residences you can step outside of, talk with people, and go do shopping and get things done with less than a mile of walking.
wahoonc
09-04-11, 02:38 PM
The area I live in is fast becoming urban. We have a quite a few subdivisions that look like the one in that video, most of them are not as ritzy. The nearest major shopping area is 20 miles away. There are some strip malls with the basics with in 5-7 miles. However in more than one case you are greeted with these signs. There is a 400 home subdivision directly across the street from a strip mall that contains a grocery store, fast food, video store and drug store, but you cannot walk to it! Here is a LINK (http://g.co/maps/37nr) to the intersection in question, the satelite photos are out of date, the area is much more heavily built up than it shows. Current traffic counts are in excess of 30,000 cars a day along the main road, they are in the process of adding yet another set of lanes to handle the volume of the additional 20,000 homes that are projected to be built in the immediate area in the next 2 years. But not a single piece of infrastructure is planned for cyclists or pedestrians!
Aaron :)
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/46777/2134078970066886751S600x600Q85.jpg
Aaron :)
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/46777/2134078970066886751S600x600Q85.jpg
Roody
09-05-11, 08:48 AM
The area I live in is fast becoming urban. We have a quite a few subdivisions that look like the one in that video, most of them are not as ritzy. The nearest major shopping area is 20 miles away. There are some strip malls with the basics with in 5-7 miles. However in more than one case you are greeted with these signs. There is a 400 home subdivision directly across the street from a strip mall that contains a grocery store, fast food, video store and drug store, but you cannot walk to it! Here is a LINK (http://g.co/maps/37nr) to the intersection in question, the satelite photos are out of date, the area is much more heavily built up than it shows. Current traffic counts are in excess of 30,000 cars a day along the main road, they are in the process of adding yet another set of lanes to handle the volume of the additional 20,000 homes that are projected to be built in the immediate area in the next 2 years. But not a single piece of infrastructure is planned for cyclists or pedestrians!
Aaron :)
Sometimes it's a vicious cycle. There's no pedestrian infrastructure, so nobody walks. With so few walkers, there's no political pressure to install ped infrastructure, so nobody walks. Politicians seem sensible when they say it would be a waste of money to put in sidewalks, because nobody walks anyway. It becomes a big cluster bomb, and it takes a lot of hard work and organization for activists to break the cycle.
Cars are so central to our society that people fall into the mindset of "that's the way it is, that's the way it has always been, so that's the way it's always supposed to be."
Aaron :)
Sometimes it's a vicious cycle. There's no pedestrian infrastructure, so nobody walks. With so few walkers, there's no political pressure to install ped infrastructure, so nobody walks. Politicians seem sensible when they say it would be a waste of money to put in sidewalks, because nobody walks anyway. It becomes a big cluster bomb, and it takes a lot of hard work and organization for activists to break the cycle.
Cars are so central to our society that people fall into the mindset of "that's the way it is, that's the way it has always been, so that's the way it's always supposed to be."
I-Like-To-Bike
09-05-11, 09:10 AM
...and it takes a lot of hard work and organization for activists to break the cycle.
Activism? Is that what you think the OP's ranting about his current locale is all about?
How effective do you believe an "organization" of "activists" would be making similar generalized, over-the-top (IMO hysterical) complaints to the local authorities?
Activism? Is that what you think the OP's ranting about his current locale is all about?
How effective do you believe an "organization" of "activists" would be making similar generalized, over-the-top (IMO hysterical) complaints to the local authorities?
Cheshire
09-05-11, 10:48 AM
MobiusX: When the tropical storm rains (that just started today) pass and I don't ruin my camera, I'll show you what it takes for me to get into town. You'll do a little dance about those roads in comparison. ;)
Doesn't look like bad riding at all, really. If you start backing up traffic...pull into the grass and let it clear out. (I'd probably be running cyclocross tires with routes like that.) Otherwise, they'll pass you and continue on. I don't get caught up in who has more rights to the road: keeping things flowing is the overall point, yeah?
Just another town in the South. 45-55 mph speed limit is common.
Doesn't look like bad riding at all, really. If you start backing up traffic...pull into the grass and let it clear out. (I'd probably be running cyclocross tires with routes like that.) Otherwise, they'll pass you and continue on. I don't get caught up in who has more rights to the road: keeping things flowing is the overall point, yeah?
Just another town in the South. 45-55 mph speed limit is common.
Roody
09-05-11, 10:59 AM
Activism? Is that what you think the OP's ranting about his current locale is all about?
How effective do you believe an "organization" of "activists" would be making similar generalized, over-the-top (IMO hysterical) complaints to the local authorities?
I was responding to another message, not to the OP.
Like you, I have observed that hysterical activism is usually less effective than sensible claims that point out the advantages to the general well-being of citizens.
When varied advocacy groups work together, they can often accomplish a lot on a local level. In my city, a coalition of cycling clubs, business leaders, new urbanists, and senior groups has worked together to improve non-motor infrastructure. They have persuded voters and City Council to pass a couple new infrastructure orcinances. These included a Complete Streets ordinance and an act requiring bike racks for public businesses. These groups and individuals have also gotten a lot of good stuff included in the Master Development Plans, and helped to extend millages for public transit.
How effective do you believe an "organization" of "activists" would be making similar generalized, over-the-top (IMO hysterical) complaints to the local authorities?
I was responding to another message, not to the OP.
Like you, I have observed that hysterical activism is usually less effective than sensible claims that point out the advantages to the general well-being of citizens.
When varied advocacy groups work together, they can often accomplish a lot on a local level. In my city, a coalition of cycling clubs, business leaders, new urbanists, and senior groups has worked together to improve non-motor infrastructure. They have persuded voters and City Council to pass a couple new infrastructure orcinances. These included a Complete Streets ordinance and an act requiring bike racks for public businesses. These groups and individuals have also gotten a lot of good stuff included in the Master Development Plans, and helped to extend millages for public transit.
wahoonc
09-05-11, 11:07 AM
NC I believe has Complete Streets, but that doesn't mean they apply it in every situation. I have attended a couple of meeting of some forthcoming DOT changes to the road I live on, asked about pedestrian and cycling. I was told that there weren't any plans for it, because a "study" (that they could not provide for reference) showed zero pedestrian or cycling activity....HELLO!!! I just cycled to this meeting! However car is king around here and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
In reference to the previous situation above, they have commissioned a study to determine the best way to accommodate pedestrians...this is after 3 have been killed attempting to cross that intersection. Study is going to cost $300k? Solutions may be a pedestrian bridge at a cost of $1.5 million estimated. Personally I think popup blast walls to stop cars on the red light would be more cost effective. :D
Aaron :)
In reference to the previous situation above, they have commissioned a study to determine the best way to accommodate pedestrians...this is after 3 have been killed attempting to cross that intersection. Study is going to cost $300k? Solutions may be a pedestrian bridge at a cost of $1.5 million estimated. Personally I think popup blast walls to stop cars on the red light would be more cost effective. :D
Aaron :)
Cheshire
09-05-11, 03:50 PM
Personally I think popup blast walls to stop cars on the red light would be more cost effective. :D
Aaron :)
Can we get tire spikes that lay flat when the light turns green? :evil grin:
It can be integrated with the light sensors.
Aaron :)
Can we get tire spikes that lay flat when the light turns green? :evil grin:
It can be integrated with the light sensors.
Roody
09-05-11, 04:12 PM
I was told that there weren't any plans for it, because a "study" (that they could not provide for reference) showed zero pedestrian or cycling activity....HELLO!!! I just cycled to this meeting! However car is king around here and will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
Aaron :)
Tyopical of street engineers--build a dangerous road and post signs that say pedestrians are prohibited. Then claim that it's a wastee of money to provide for pedestrians because there are none. They can't really think we're that stupid, can they?
Aaron :)
Tyopical of street engineers--build a dangerous road and post signs that say pedestrians are prohibited. Then claim that it's a wastee of money to provide for pedestrians because there are none. They can't really think we're that stupid, can they?
wahoonc
09-05-11, 05:01 PM
Tyopical of street engineers--build a dangerous road and post signs that say pedestrians are prohibited. Then claim that it's a wastee of money to provide for pedestrians because there are none. They can't really think we're that stupid, can they?
Apparently...because I see them all over the place. :(
Aaron :)
Apparently...because I see them all over the place. :(
Aaron :)
gerv
09-05-11, 06:33 PM
Tyopical of street engineers--build a dangerous road and post signs that say pedestrians are prohibited. Then claim that it's a wastee of money to provide for pedestrians because there are none. They can't really think we're that stupid, can they?
We tend to blame street engineers for adopting an attitude that is prevalent in the general population.
What we really need are organizations, groups, individuals representing cyclists and pedestrians. When that happens, a sane traffic engineer will have the pedestrian -- the squeaky wheel -- right there in the back of her head.
One way to do this is to get the city to become more aware. In Des Moines, our city is spending some money to do a traffic count of bicycles. It's never been done before, so we have no idea how many people travel on bikes.
On Sept 13-17, the city is going to try to figure out just how many people are going places on bicycles. I'm one of the volunteer counters on Sat. Sept 17. Meanwhile, I have encouraged my friends and colleagues to get out on those days.
Once we have that figure firmly planted in the minds of politicians and officials, the next year count (assuming an increase..) will be a reminder of where the real growth and the next big opportunity is happening.
I can tell you it isn't in driving your Yukon two blocks to buy a loaf of break.
We tend to blame street engineers for adopting an attitude that is prevalent in the general population.
What we really need are organizations, groups, individuals representing cyclists and pedestrians. When that happens, a sane traffic engineer will have the pedestrian -- the squeaky wheel -- right there in the back of her head.
One way to do this is to get the city to become more aware. In Des Moines, our city is spending some money to do a traffic count of bicycles. It's never been done before, so we have no idea how many people travel on bikes.
On Sept 13-17, the city is going to try to figure out just how many people are going places on bicycles. I'm one of the volunteer counters on Sat. Sept 17. Meanwhile, I have encouraged my friends and colleagues to get out on those days.
Once we have that figure firmly planted in the minds of politicians and officials, the next year count (assuming an increase..) will be a reminder of where the real growth and the next big opportunity is happening.
I can tell you it isn't in driving your Yukon two blocks to buy a loaf of break.
Robert Foster
09-05-11, 11:05 PM
We tend to blame street engineers for adopting an attitude that is prevalent in the general population.
I can tell you it isn't in driving your Yukon two blocks to buy a loaf of break.
But my next MTB will be a Giant Yukon.:D
I can tell you it isn't in driving your Yukon two blocks to buy a loaf of break.
But my next MTB will be a Giant Yukon.:D
zoltani
09-06-11, 10:18 AM
We live in a very diversified country with areas that would remind someone of the French countryside or an English Village and in some cases large cities.
I find this statement to be quite untrue.
And for once I agree with I-Like-To-Bike, those streets looks fine for cycling....except for the distracted drivers taking videos while driving :eek:
I find this statement to be quite untrue.
And for once I agree with I-Like-To-Bike, those streets looks fine for cycling....except for the distracted drivers taking videos while driving :eek:
Robert Foster
09-06-11, 12:17 PM
I find this statement to be quite untrue.
And for once I agree with I-Like-To-Bike, those streets looks fine for cycling....except for the distracted drivers taking videos while driving :eek:
I submit Sonoma California, Temecula California, Leavenworth Washington might qualify. Camano Island looked pretty easy going to me as well. Is that not a lot different from Seattle? How do you feel about Mercer Island? I haven't started with towns like Las Vegas New Mexico, Raton New mexico, Old Colorado Springs as opposed to Metro. Custer North Dakota and several little town close by would qualify. Or is your contention we aren't deversified and don't have villages? All of the places I mentioned I have cycled in except Leavenworth Washington because I was more interested in Stevens Pass.
And for once I agree with I-Like-To-Bike, those streets looks fine for cycling....except for the distracted drivers taking videos while driving :eek:
I submit Sonoma California, Temecula California, Leavenworth Washington might qualify. Camano Island looked pretty easy going to me as well. Is that not a lot different from Seattle? How do you feel about Mercer Island? I haven't started with towns like Las Vegas New Mexico, Raton New mexico, Old Colorado Springs as opposed to Metro. Custer North Dakota and several little town close by would qualify. Or is your contention we aren't deversified and don't have villages? All of the places I mentioned I have cycled in except Leavenworth Washington because I was more interested in Stevens Pass.
zoltani
09-06-11, 12:51 PM
I've traveled extensively in France and found it completely different than the US, especially regarding the road infrastructure. The villages here are a bit sad...
Sonoma may qualify as a lively small US town, but Leavenworth, you are joking right? It's like disneyland. Hey, I know what will attract tourists, let's make a fake bavarian village! Laughable...
Sonoma may qualify as a lively small US town, but Leavenworth, you are joking right? It's like disneyland. Hey, I know what will attract tourists, let's make a fake bavarian village! Laughable...
Cheshire
09-06-11, 12:51 PM
Here's a section of what my regular ride looks like, assuming I stay off the highway.
http://youtu.be/TVxofJOQ22I
I usually take the highway since it's flatter and a third of the distance for that section. I drive to the Ingles at the start of the video and bike from there if it's after dark.
http://youtu.be/TVxofJOQ22I
I usually take the highway since it's flatter and a third of the distance for that section. I drive to the Ingles at the start of the video and bike from there if it's after dark.
MobiusX
09-06-11, 06:23 PM
Here's a section of what my regular ride looks like, assuming I stay off the highway.
http://youtu.be/TVxofJOQ22I
I usually take the highway since it's flatter and a third of the distance for that section. I drive to the Ingles at the start of the video and bike from there if it's after dark.
that looks very depressing, how can a place like this be memorable? it's just like the place where I am currently living right now, especially at night it's dangerous, no way a person will survive without lights on the bike
http://youtu.be/TVxofJOQ22I
I usually take the highway since it's flatter and a third of the distance for that section. I drive to the Ingles at the start of the video and bike from there if it's after dark.
that looks very depressing, how can a place like this be memorable? it's just like the place where I am currently living right now, especially at night it's dangerous, no way a person will survive without lights on the bike
Robert Foster
09-06-11, 06:42 PM
I've traveled extensively in France and found it completely different than the US, especially regarding the road infrastructure. The villages here are a bit sad...
Sonoma may qualify as a lively small US town, but Leavenworth, you are joking right? It's like disneyland. Hey, I know what will attract tourists, let's make a fake bavarian village! Laughable...
I was talking about the rolling land scapes and sparce number of houses between Vinyards. Not the idea that they like Jerry Lewis and they are a bit insulting to strangers.:lol: (for the overly sensitive that was a joke.) I have been to Europe as well and didn't see the countryside as all that different from some parts of Northern California and the wine country of southern California. So I guess I dissagree with your statement as well.:eek: All I needed was some examples and think I provided some.:D
Sonoma may qualify as a lively small US town, but Leavenworth, you are joking right? It's like disneyland. Hey, I know what will attract tourists, let's make a fake bavarian village! Laughable...
I was talking about the rolling land scapes and sparce number of houses between Vinyards. Not the idea that they like Jerry Lewis and they are a bit insulting to strangers.:lol: (for the overly sensitive that was a joke.) I have been to Europe as well and didn't see the countryside as all that different from some parts of Northern California and the wine country of southern California. So I guess I dissagree with your statement as well.:eek: All I needed was some examples and think I provided some.:D
Cheshire
09-06-11, 06:55 PM
I run a planetbike superflash day or night, an old cygolite headlight starting at dusk, and use my rain covers on my panniers (they're florescent yellow). My current attempt at a mirror failed because the bar-end ended up being much smaller than it looked. :/
I just shrug off the setbacks and push on. :) Tomorrow I'm going to get a different mirror: maybe see about a "3rd eye" style that I can swap between my sunglasses and eyeglasses. Later this week I should have a 34t climbing gear for that beast of a hill...then I'm riding it just to spite it. :D
The trick is that I don't let traffic get to me and I try to be courteous. Most of the time, cars go around me just fine. I take the lane at least a little through the curves (especially those downhills!! :D ) and have learned to look through the trees more than average. If traffic starts backing up behind me and can't safely go around, I rolling-dismount at the next driveway and wave 'em past. If I see/hear a car coming, I point at it and hold up a "wait" finger if anyone's behind me then flag 'em through when I can see it's clear.
The 5-lane can get a little hairy, but generally I pick my lane position based on how traffic's passing me. If cars are flying by without even putting part of a tire over the dotted white, I take a little more of the lane. I always leave myself a bail-out option, make sure my lights are on, and that the hi-viz pannier cover is out on the left (at least).
It's what the roads are like here. Either I find ways to work with it or I don't ride...and I'm GOING to ride. :D
I take a little inspiration from someone I met through scootering (I had a 125cc): he's in Portland, OR. He said, "I adapt to the conditions. Rain, snow, traffic, whatever. Besides, I live in Portland. If I didn't ride in the rain, I'd never get to ride!" That kinda stuck with me and goes through my mind every time I think about taking the car.
I just shrug off the setbacks and push on. :) Tomorrow I'm going to get a different mirror: maybe see about a "3rd eye" style that I can swap between my sunglasses and eyeglasses. Later this week I should have a 34t climbing gear for that beast of a hill...then I'm riding it just to spite it. :D
The trick is that I don't let traffic get to me and I try to be courteous. Most of the time, cars go around me just fine. I take the lane at least a little through the curves (especially those downhills!! :D ) and have learned to look through the trees more than average. If traffic starts backing up behind me and can't safely go around, I rolling-dismount at the next driveway and wave 'em past. If I see/hear a car coming, I point at it and hold up a "wait" finger if anyone's behind me then flag 'em through when I can see it's clear.
The 5-lane can get a little hairy, but generally I pick my lane position based on how traffic's passing me. If cars are flying by without even putting part of a tire over the dotted white, I take a little more of the lane. I always leave myself a bail-out option, make sure my lights are on, and that the hi-viz pannier cover is out on the left (at least).
It's what the roads are like here. Either I find ways to work with it or I don't ride...and I'm GOING to ride. :D
I take a little inspiration from someone I met through scootering (I had a 125cc): he's in Portland, OR. He said, "I adapt to the conditions. Rain, snow, traffic, whatever. Besides, I live in Portland. If I didn't ride in the rain, I'd never get to ride!" That kinda stuck with me and goes through my mind every time I think about taking the car.
Robert Foster
09-06-11, 07:02 PM
I run a planetbike superflash day or night, an old cygolite headlight starting at dusk, and use my rain covers on my panniers (they're florescent yellow). My current attempt at a mirror failed because the bar-end ended up being much smaller than it looked. :/
I just shrug off the setbacks and push on. :) Tomorrow I'm going to get a different mirror: maybe see about a "3rd eye" style that I can swap between my sunglasses and eyeglasses. Later this week I should have a 34t climbing gear for that beast of a hill...then I'm riding it just to spite it. :D
The trick is that I don't let traffic get to me and I try to be courteous. Most of the time, cars go around me just fine. I take the lane at least a little through the curves (especially those downhills!! :D ) and have learned to look through the trees more than average. If traffic starts backing up behind me and can't safely go around, I rolling-dismount at the next driveway and wave 'em past. If I see/hear a car coming, I point at it and hold up a "wait" finger if anyone's behind me then flag 'em through when I can see it's clear.
The 5-lane can get a little hairy, but generally I pick my lane position based on how traffic's passing me. If cars are flying by without even putting part of a tire over the dotted white, I take a little more of the lane. I always leave myself a bail-out option, make sure my lights are on, and that the hi-viz pannier cover is out on the left (at least).
It's what the roads are like here. Either I find ways to work with it or I don't ride...and I'm GOING to ride. :D
I take a little inspiration from someone I met through scootering (I had a 125cc): he's in Portland, OR. He said, "I adapt to the conditions. Rain, snow, traffic, whatever. Besides, I live in Portland. If I didn't ride in the rain, I'd never get to ride!" That kinda stuck with me and goes through my mind every time I think about taking the car.
You made the point but I doubt some will get it. Adapt, move or die.:thumb:
I just shrug off the setbacks and push on. :) Tomorrow I'm going to get a different mirror: maybe see about a "3rd eye" style that I can swap between my sunglasses and eyeglasses. Later this week I should have a 34t climbing gear for that beast of a hill...then I'm riding it just to spite it. :D
The trick is that I don't let traffic get to me and I try to be courteous. Most of the time, cars go around me just fine. I take the lane at least a little through the curves (especially those downhills!! :D ) and have learned to look through the trees more than average. If traffic starts backing up behind me and can't safely go around, I rolling-dismount at the next driveway and wave 'em past. If I see/hear a car coming, I point at it and hold up a "wait" finger if anyone's behind me then flag 'em through when I can see it's clear.
The 5-lane can get a little hairy, but generally I pick my lane position based on how traffic's passing me. If cars are flying by without even putting part of a tire over the dotted white, I take a little more of the lane. I always leave myself a bail-out option, make sure my lights are on, and that the hi-viz pannier cover is out on the left (at least).
It's what the roads are like here. Either I find ways to work with it or I don't ride...and I'm GOING to ride. :D
I take a little inspiration from someone I met through scootering (I had a 125cc): he's in Portland, OR. He said, "I adapt to the conditions. Rain, snow, traffic, whatever. Besides, I live in Portland. If I didn't ride in the rain, I'd never get to ride!" That kinda stuck with me and goes through my mind every time I think about taking the car.
You made the point but I doubt some will get it. Adapt, move or die.:thumb:
Roody
09-06-11, 07:05 PM
I was talking about the rolling land scapes and sparce number of houses between Vinyards. Not the idea that they like Jerry Lewis and they are a bit insulting to strangers.:lol: (for the overly sensitive that was a joke.) I have been to Europe as well and didn't see the countryside as all that different from some parts of Northern California and the wine country of southern California. So I guess I dissagree with your statement as well.:eek: All I needed was some examples and think I provided some.:D
Of course there are many beautiful small towns in America. I can think of 50 or more just here in Michigan. Small towns are great for carfree if you work in the town you live in, and there are adequate stores for most of your shopping. A bike will get you across a small town in just a few minutes, and walking is doable also. Public transit is likely to be inadequate in most cases.
I lived in a small town for several months with a car. It was charming and peaceful. The 30 minute commute to work in the city was annoying, but not a deal breaker. When my car died, life became nearly impossible. Getting around the town was no problem, but getting to and from work was a nightmare. I very soon moved back to the city, and I've been here ever since.
Of course there are many beautiful small towns in America. I can think of 50 or more just here in Michigan. Small towns are great for carfree if you work in the town you live in, and there are adequate stores for most of your shopping. A bike will get you across a small town in just a few minutes, and walking is doable also. Public transit is likely to be inadequate in most cases.
I lived in a small town for several months with a car. It was charming and peaceful. The 30 minute commute to work in the city was annoying, but not a deal breaker. When my car died, life became nearly impossible. Getting around the town was no problem, but getting to and from work was a nightmare. I very soon moved back to the city, and I've been here ever since.
Cheshire
09-06-11, 07:20 PM
Kinda. :) I'm very stubbornly optimistic. For example: while those uphills are SADISTIC, the downhill "WOOHOO!!" makes it worth it. With less-than-great roads, a lot of it is psychological. If you don't shift your mindset, you'll sink like a stone.
(A twisted sense of humor is one helluva bonus, too.) :D
(A twisted sense of humor is one helluva bonus, too.) :D