Classic & Vintage - eBay

Just purchased something (small) through ebay for the first time in a long time.

What. The. Hell?

me> Ok, sure, I'd like to purchase. <CLICK>

ebay> Do you wish to commit to this purchase? If you and this purchase are joined in legal matrimony, no man may put them asunder. If you do this, you can't take it back, and if you reneg, we will haunt you with lawyers and werewolves until the end of days.

me> Um, ok. Yes. Yes, sure. I mean, that's what I just said on the previous screen right? <CLICK>

ebay> So, how would you like to pay? Here are your options:

-PayPal
-PayPal
-PayPal
-PalPay (actually PayPal)
-PlayPa (processed by PayPal)
-Your Pal (secretly PayPal)
-Some other method

me> huh? Ok, some other method <click>

ebay> Other payment methods available are:

PayPal
PayPal
PayPal
PayPal Visa Mastercard etc.
Visa Mastercard, etc. Processed by PayPal!!
FirstBorn
VitalOrgan [click for details]

me> what the hell? Can't I just pay with a credit card, you know, like I do everywhere else on the web? Why does PayPal have to be involved in everything. And what's the difference between PayPal Visa Mastercard and Visa Mastercard Processed by PayPal.

What the @#$ is wrong with you people?

OK, Visa Mastercard etc Processed by PayPal <CLICK>

ebay> We see that you have a PayPal account. Wouldn't it just be easier if you paid with PayPal? Your options are:

Yes
Absolutely
Indubitably
Probably

me>ARRRRRRRHRFHGHGHGHGHG!!!!

probably? <CLICK>

ebay>Did you mean yes?

Yes
No

me> no <CLICK>

ebay>Look, you are clearly pretty dense, so we'll spell it out for you. You have a choice of all major payment methods on ebay. But if you don't use PayPal, things could become ... difficult for you. You might be more likely to have a nasty accident or to have the details of your frightening taste in, ahem, erotica published on facebook and in your local newspaper. You could get a weird and undiagnosable disease that would make you miserable but not keep you from being able to work, so that you fall into that gray area where neither health insurance nor disability will pay. The choice is yours, dude. We're just providing information. We're here to help. :)

me> close window <CLICK>

I will not use it. i try to contact the seller and ask if he will take an MO. I have even sent cash when < 25. If I cannot contact the seller I will just bid (unless he says Paypal Only) and then worry about it after the auction. Too many people I know have been screwed over by Paypal.

This would be a five star post, if we could rate them anymore :)

Aw, shucks.

I like paypal

If there weren't any Craigslist or Ebay threads, the C&V would be no more

I like paypal

Me too.

Never, ever had a problem, nor do I know anyone who ever had a problem.

PayPal is great, I've been using eBay since 2002 with PayPal and never a problem. Since I don't have any credit cards I look for PP sig. when I shop on line.

It's also how I collect money from my 19 year old son to pay his cell and auto insurance bills.

Me likey the PayPal.

Since Paypal, my non-paying bidders have gone from 15% to zero. Sure, they're a pain in the ass, but I don't long for the days of waitiing around for money orders to arrive.

Without ebay and paypal most of us would not have any of the stuff we discuss on this forum.

I've never had a problem with eBay or PayPal either. But I hate the ridiculous fees; they get you comin' and goin'. I've pretty much stopped using both, at least for now.

I like Paypal too. People complain about the fees, but I've overdrawn my Paypal account many times by $1 or so and a bank would've charged me $30, but paypal doesn't charge me anything and that alone has more than compensated for the fees they charge. I'm not responsible with money though. I give them about $500 a year, but it allows me to take peoples credit and debit cards and every other online merchant has had the same fees, so if someone knows of a cheaper one, I'd like to know about it.

Ebay fees combined with Paypal fees are another story though. It's ridiculous having to pay fees to two companies owned by the same people, but it's what I have to do to make money.

Actually, I just looked into it more and I give them $800 a year. Maybe I should find something else!

a real auction would take what 20-30 percent? ebay only takes 9, sounds good to me

There are many things wrong with the world. And there are things wrong with ebay, and with paypal, and with this forum too. But ebay, paypal, and this forum have all made my life a better place. There are a million other things in this world that I'd fix before doing anything to Paypal.

a real auction would take what 20-30 percent? ebay only takes 9, sounds good to me

I completely agree. But to split hairs, the combination of insertion fees + 9% ebay seller premium + 3.5% paypal fee, it is closer to a total of 15%. Still a bargin compared to the typical 30% an auction house will take.

a real auction would take what 20-30 percent? ebay only takes 9, sounds good to me

Wow! I'm staying away from auctions in Phoenix I guess. Auctioneers in Missouri charge 10%.

thats a bargain! I have never seen an auction charge that little. I don't even understand how an auction could make money at 10 percent

If you like fees, you should see what my wife pays consignment shops for selling high end clothes. She gets 40%, shop gets 60%.....

Local bike shop charged me 25% to consign bikes. 9% to reach a global market starts looking pretty reasonable. Sure, I wish it was lower.

I will not use it. i try to contact the seller and ask if he will take an MO. I have even sent cash when < 25. If I cannot contact the seller I will just bid (unless he says Paypal Only) and then worry about it after the auction. Too many people I know have been screwed over by Paypal.

I've had no significant problems whatsoever with PayPal, over a decade of heavy use, buying and selling, business and personal.

That said, I wish I didn't have to pay them a cut, but that's no different than paying a bank to take your Visa or Mastercard chits, so it's a cost of doing business. I use PP enough so that they actually give me a better deal for moving the electrons (which is all they really do!) if I don't extract the money, but zap it around the internets that Al Gore invented instead. And that preferred rate is lower than the bank takes for VISA/MC....
YMMV.

PayPal is great, I've been using eBay since 2002 with PayPal and never a problem. Since I don't have any credit cards I look for PP sig. when I shop on line.

It's also how I collect money from my 19 year old son to pay his cell and auto insurance bills.

Hey, that is a great idea!

I completely agree. But to split hairs, the combination of insertion fees + 9% ebay seller premium + 3.5% paypal fee, it is closer to a total of 15%. Still a bargin compared to the typical 30% an auction house will take.


Correct. Agreed....

You should see what Amazon takes, though, for someone that is small-potatoes in the "Sporting Goods" category (not sure if Nashbar pays less, but I would hope so). They take care of the credit cards fees, but take a 30-percent cut. No thanks (is what I told them)!

If you like fees, you should see what my wife pays consignment shops for selling high end clothes. She gets 40%, shop gets 60%.....

Local bike shop charged me 25% to consign bikes. 9% to reach a global market starts looking pretty reasonable. Sure, I wish it was lower.

Ouch! Tell her to start a website, so she can reduce that from 60% to 4%....

Ouch! Tell her to start a website, so she can reduce that from 60% to 4%....

She actually loves to sell her stuff on ebay, for the 15% fee mentioned above. Unfortunately, in the high end clothing area, only a few brands really bring decent $$ on an auction. So she cherry picks her stuff, ebays some of it, consigns the rest.

If your eBay seller does not have their own credit card processing arrangement, the only way you will be able to pay for an eBay purchase with a credit card is through PayPal. If you truly want to avoid PayPal, perhaps the seller will accept a personal check or money order (although you may have to wait until it has cleared the bank before the item ships).

Personally, I have not had any problems with PayPal. They do skim some off the top for their efforts, but that's the price you pay for the convenience they offer.

The only reason eBay gets away with charging those fees to the general individual is because most people are too stupid to realize that they're giving eBay and PayPal an 18% cut - until:

A. They see how much PayPal cut from their profit when they transfer funds
B. They get the bill for the final value fee. This one is a beaut, because it's monthly billing cycle allows people to forget it exists.

Case in point:
I went to see a package of camera equipment - locally - that the seller had previously listed on eBay for $900 with free shipping. He failed to get a bid. The 18% fees would have knocked his net profit from $900 (net, if he were to sell off eBay) to $738, and $15 for a large Priority box would cut his net down to $723.

Would it surprise you if I said he had no interest in budging one penny under $900 once we got to negotiations? The discussion went something like this:

"What's your rock bottom price?"
"$900."
"So you'd be willing to take a net profit of $725 if I had bid on this thing on eBay, but you refuse to take the same $725 in cash if I buy it from your driveway?"
"Best I can do is $900."
"Thank you for your time. Goodbye."

Takes all kinds. Thanks to him, I've found a better deal :roflmao:

-Kurt

Exactly!

The only reason eBay gets away with charging those fees to the general individual is because most people are too stupid to realize that they're giving eBay and PayPal an 18% cut - until:

A. They see how much PayPal cut from their profit when they transfer funds
B. They get the bill for the final value fee. This one is a beaut, because it's monthly billing cycle allows people to forget it exists.

Case in point:
I went to see a package of camera equipment - locally - that the seller had previously listed on eBay for $900 with free shipping. He failed to get a bid. The 18% fees would have knocked his net profit from $900 to $738, and $15 for a large Priority box would cut his net down to $723.

Would it surprise you if I said he had no interest in budging one penny under $900 once we got to negotiations? The discussion went something like this:

"What's your rock bottom price?"
"$900."
"So you'd be willing to take a net profit of $725 if I had bid on this thing on eBay, but you refuse to take the same $725 in cash if I buy it from your driveway?"
"Best I can do is $900."
"Thank you for your time. Goodbye."

Takes all kinds. Thanks to him, I've found a better deal :roflmao:

-Kurt

Not sure how you made up those numbers, but eBarf doesn't take 18%, it's more like 9-10% total. If you get paid via PayPal, maybe 12-14% total.

His gross sale would be $900, not his "net profit." Huge difference. You sound like someone that would talk about 300% profit. Mathematically impossible; you can't make more than 100% profit (if you got something for free, then all of your money that you get for selling that thing is profit, i.e. 100% of it). You can have 300% markup, that's different. And gross profit isn't anywhere near the same as net profit. Net profit is often negative. And 'large Priority boxes' are free. The PO gives them away. Packing materials cost something, but not more than a buck or so, typically. Heck, bike boxes are free at my LBS. I've purchased the same frame boxes that Waterford uses, and those were $5 per box in quantity. Darn good boxes, too (the best, imo).

The reason people continue to sell on eBay is that people usually pay too much for stuff on eBay, on average, so the extra $$ you get in selling price vs. elsewhere covers all of the annoying fees and packing materials. Shipping is often a profit center for eBay sellers (sometimes THE profit center, which annoys the crap out of me, so I don't buy from those sellers).

Just because his stuff didn't sell the first time for $900 doesn't mean that it won't sell for $1000+ next week when he re-lists it. Such is eBarf. Nutty, yet interesting....

Not sure how you made up those numbers, but eBarf doesn't take 18%, it's more like 9-10% total.

That's the percentage being bandied about on the PayPal forums by the regulars. Frankly, I've got more important things to do than calculate PayPal fees to the penny. I only use the service for hobby-related transactions, and hobbies aren't a priority.


If you get paid via PayPal, maybe 12-14% total.

IF? eBay made PayPal mandatory for all but a few item categories back in 2008.


His gross sale would be $900, not his "net profit." Huge difference.

His net profit would be $900 if he had sold the camera to a local buyer for $900 cash, which is what I was referring to. His gross sale would be $900 if he had sold the camera via eBay, and the net would have been $900 - (fees + shipping + all other expenses).


And 'large Priority boxes' are free. The PO gives them away.

I'm not willing to discuss this statement until the USPS lets me ship these boxes for free.


The reason people continue to sell on eBay is that people usually pay too much for stuff on eBay, on average, so the extra $$ you get in selling price vs. elsewhere covers all of the annoying fees and packing materials. Shipping is often a profit center for eBay sellers (sometimes THE profit center, which annoys the crap out of me, so I don't buy from those sellers).

It depends on the item, but this is generally true; yes.


Just because his stuff didn't sell the first time for $900 doesn't mean that it won't sell for $1000+ next week when he re-lists it. Such is eBarf. Nutty, yet interesting....

A. He's been trying to sell the lot for $1,000 since last month. No takers.
B. Ten minutes after I posted above, I found that he had listed the same lot - a week prior - for an $800 starting bid - and failed to sell it. That's right; he jacked the price by $100 a week later. (Chalk one idiot point up for me for not finding that completed auction until now).

-Kurt

I am pretty new to selling on Ebay, but as I learn bikes better I find the only way to get a good deal is to sell stuff on Epay. No offense to the forum but I have to list something much below Ebay prices to even get a tiny bit of interest. so for example, I sold a set of shimano tri color downtube shifters for $50, I don't think I would have gotten half of that here. so 50- 18 percent= $42, I am not sure if your 18 percent includes shipping but I charge shipping plus 2 dollars for my time. so my net profit on $50 is $44 or 88 percent. Now if we are splitting hairs lets see what else Ebay gives you. I don't need a store front, ebay takes care of that, Ebay sends out Email reminders to the people watching my item, markets my item, and has a huge multinational market presence, ebay hosts my auction page. once paypal takes over I have a secure way to get the money from the buyer (you know credit cards take a percentage of a sale too right?). not to mention Ebay subsidizes my shipping cost to the tune of $70 cents on a small flat rate box.

The reason people continue to sell on eBay is that people usually pay too much for stuff on eBay, on average, so the extra $$ you get in selling price vs. elsewhere covers all of the annoying fees and packing materials. Shipping is often a profit center for eBay sellers (sometimes THE profit center, which annoys the crap out of me, so I don't buy from those sellers).

No kidding on that. A lot of times for frames/wheels, I list them on the Wash DC (read, high traffic) CL for somewhat less than I would expect on ebay to avoid shipping hassle. Almost invariably, I get no love, except from lowball scammers. Then I'll list on ebay, get 50% or more than my CL price. More than a few times, the ebay buyer has ended up being somebody local, does a local pickup.

Go figure...

The other reason I like ebay is that I don't even have to think about setting a price, which itself is a headache. I just list stuff at .99 cents, no reserve, and let the crowd sort it out. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, sometimes somebody gets a raging great deal, but overall I think it is a fair system. I certainly don't begrudge ebay and paypal their cut. And due to my recent burst of apparently ethical sales, I regained some top rated/power seller status that reduces final value fees by 20%. They also offered me health insurance...

That cut in final value fees is making me think it may be time to auction off a couple of expensive guitars I don't use much, including a minty 1965 Gibson L5C. I've thought about sending this to one of the big guitar consignment joints, but they charge 20% plus I have to pay to ship it to them and who knows when it will eventually sell. Plus, those joints nickel and dime you to death on prepping the guitar for sale, they always want to nick you for leveling the frets and other stuff.

Anyhow, I'm still pretty small beer as an ebay seller, makes me wonder what kind of deals they offer the guys who are doing thousands or tens of thousands of sales per year.

I suppose some of the hurdles ebay/paypal set up for low volume sellers is an annoyance, but here is a secret - Ebay really doesn't want/need the business from the onesie/twosie occasional seller. I'm positive that the overall buyer satisfaction averages less with this kind of seller, just from them being noobs, not from any malicious intent. But they sort of have to to allow this as a portal for future mass sellers.

I'm also with the previous poster about selling on forums. I do it occasionally for somebody who clearly needs an unusual part or is in a jam. But as a routine thing, setting prices is too much of a headache and leaves me feeling like I'm either giving stuff away in order to be a nice guy or I'm taking somebody to the cleaners who really needs an item.

So I'm obviously in the camp that approves of ebay. I just follow a couple of rules - the first is full disclosure on items. The second is ship real fast, same or next day that you get payment. That alone seems to get rid of about 90% of potential problems. I answer all queries. And on the few times where I missed an issue on an item, I just refund all the money, including shipping and take it as a lesson for myself to better inspect things.

Speaking of that, the items that have caused most problems over the years are used freewheels. I've had a couple of those where people have gotten back and said, hey, chain is skipping or some other thing on freewheels in very nice condition. I've refunded the money despite the fact that I suspect that something else is the problem, like worn chain or bad derailleur adjustment. But it isn't worth delving into and unlike a new freewheel, you can't say, well, it is new...

So I don't like selling those on ebay anymore. If I ever do again, I may very strongly warn that used freewheels are sold as-is.

I've also never had a situation where I felt a buyer was trying to scam me, knock on wood.