Fifty Plus (50+) - Renewed appreciation for WalMart bikes.

OK, so today was a gorgeous day with the temps in the 70's and no humidity. I went to my normal riding place and did a 43 mile ride, but that's not what this post is all about.

On my second lap, I'm moving along at around 17 mph when I look in my mirror and notice that there is a pace line coming around me. I notice that the guy up front is on a mountain bike and really moving to get out of their way. I'm thinking, "I'll slow down and let this guy on the mountain bike get around me so he can get out of their way." They all pass me and follow the guy on the mountain bike. Now I'm thinking, "Nah!, This can't be right." I fall behind them and switch to my large chain ring (I normally ride my middle ring) and put some speed on the bike to find out this guy is leading the pace line at around 24 mph on a not-so-new Next mountain bike. After my initial WTF, I dropped back and they just kept on riding without slowing down.

So now when people start to tell me about their fast, lightweight carbon bikes and how much faster it makes them go, I can tell them about this guy on a WalMart Next who's calves were bigger than my thighs and smoked me. Just more proof that it's definitely the engine and not the bike that makes up the speed.

ok,so Superman can go fast on anything. Thats pretty funny dudes on a wally world bike crushing everyone.

It was actually one guy. The rest were on road bikes. My jaw dropped when I saw it was a Next bike.

Doesn't matter what make or standard of bike you ride- If it is properly set up and you are fit enough- you will ride it. Just imagine what he would have been like on a Basic Road bike like a Giant OCR.

It's always the motor.

It's always the motor.

^^^ This

I posted because I was blown away that a guy on a cheap bike could make it go that fast. As stepfam mentioned, I can't imagine this guy on a good road bike. Plus, he wasn't wearing anything special; MTB shorts and a tee shirt.

Priceless. That guy now owns the rest of the group; if he ever shows up for a ride with a Ridley Noah, they're just gonna walk away.

With all due respect Dnvrfox it has to be a bit more than the motor. My MTB bike is 10 pounds lighter than a Next and I can't match my speed using the same motor on my CF road bike.:D But I get your point.:thumb:

The Next is a 40 pound duel suspension bike with only 18 gears. According to our good friend Sheldon Brown with the gear selection available on the Next 24 MPH is achieved at about 90 RPM in the tallest gear. That also assumes someone who would buy a Next will fork out the extra cash to dump the 1.95 knobbies and buy road slicks. If the same group following were on Road bikes they would be doing 29+ at 90 RPM with a compact crank and a standard 12x27. They could all drop into 50x15 and hold 24.:D

Like Big Foot and Crop circles I hear these stories all the time and I am a skeptic. But still the two most amazing things about this story is the power of the cyclist and the fact that a Next held together long enough to get to 24.:lol:

It's always the motor.

until a bearing seizes

On a century ride a few weeks ago, three of the guys I was riding with pacelined-it and dropped me after we broke up on a downhill (my pucker string gets too tight at 40mph). I spent 5 miles or more catching them - they weren't going THAT fast, about 19-20. But as I pulled up behind them, they were being drafted by a very large guy in sandals on flat pedals, no helmet or other cycling apparel. Just as I got there, he pulled out of the back and blew past them, dropping them BIG time. I was slack-jawed. I mean, we aren't TdF riders or anything, but that dude had the motor!

Well I still don't have any appreciation for anything that comes out of the evil empire known as Walmart but I do respect the dude who was successfully chugging away on a Walmart bike!

Before you go appreciatin' too much....

A couple months ago I was out for a ride and met a young gentleman with a fully suspended wally-bike. His problem was that his chain had just snapped. And he didn't look to have a real powerful motor. Oh, and he had bought the bike brand new the day before.

Before you go appreciatin' too much....

I know the title is a bit off and maybe somewhat misleading, but I didn't think that I would ever see a Next mountain bike hit those kinds of speeds on a flat and maintain it for any length of time. Certainly not enough to lead a pace line. I wish I could have taken a photo of him because I know that some people aren't going to believe me but it would have been hard to do going 24 mph trying to catch him.

...and the fact that a Next held together long enough to get to 24.:lol:

:roflmao2:

Before you go appreciatin' too much....

A couple months ago I was out for a ride and met a young gentleman with a fully suspended wally-bike. His problem was that his chain had just snapped. And he didn't look to have a real powerful motor. Oh, and he had bought the bike brand new the day before.

On the other hand, I have a full suspension wally-bike, and I've been running it thought some pretty tough trails, including big rock gardens, and it's been working just fine in the time since I bought it. I assembled it myself, and it has stayed in adjustment and nothing has broken. Long-term, I don't expect it to last as long as my main ride, but I've already gotten my money's worth from it.

I'm not an apologist for wally-bikes, my main ride is a Specialized Camber Elite, but my Mongoose mtn bike from Walmart is just fine, albeit a bit heavy. Which doesn't matter, since I don't race it.

On the other hand, I have a full suspension wally-bike, and I've been running it thought some pretty tough trails, including big rock gardens, and it's been working just fine in the time since I bought it. I assembled it myself, and it has stayed in adjustment and nothing has broken. Long-term, I don't expect it to last as long as my main ride, but I've already gotten my money's worth from it.

I'm not an apologist for wally-bikes, my main ride is a Specialized Camber Elite, but my Mongoose mtn bike from Walmart is just fine, albeit a bit heavy. Which doesn't matter, since I don't race it.
A couple years ago, a friend ask me to tweak up a Wally World Schwinn he he purchased for his teen-aged daughter. I was pleasantly surprised; it was a pretty good bike, way better than I expected.

I suspect the OP got duped.

I had a guy go screaming past me on a Huffy several years ago. The thing was, the bike did not look right for a Huffy. I realized the guy was riding a high end carbon fiber Trek, and the Huffy decals were on the bike to sorta fool dumb thieves.

I tend to take a camera with me everywhere. I do believe it is often the person or motor but I also believe a 40 pound bike will take a super human effort to reach 24 and stay there. I am not super human and much like sheldons speed calculator I do know what 90 RPM with a road bike and 50x12 brings to the speed table. The first picture is the speed and the second is the girl I was drafting at the time. Notice her left leg. That to me is effort. The reason the picture isn't of us in the draft was because she objects to a picture on shorts with Giant on the back.:eek:

Wow, that's taking "weight weenie" to a whole new level!

KeS

Wow, that's taking "weight weenie" to a whole new level!

KeS

Ya, I told her she might not meet the UCI minimum. But she has done centuries with us and will be with us on a mertic Monday. Not the fastest climber but she gets there sooner or later.

I did the AIDS Lifecycle ride a few months ago. One of the people in our group was riding a GMC Denali from Wal Mart. He rode in sneakers and put an extra cushy seat on the thing. He finished all 545 miles, and kept up just fine with the people on carbon bikes.

the guy on the next was probably a cat 1 and his buddies made him ride the wally cycle so they could atleast keep up.

Like Big Foot and Crop circles I hear these stories all the time and I am a skeptic. But still the two most amazing things about this story is the power of the cyclist and the fact that a Next held together long enough to get to 24.:lol:

Yeah you kind of expect to see it do one of those race car crash type scenese where you see a piece come off, then another, then another until the guy ends up butt first on the asphalt. You never know what kind of mods have been done to it though, good wheels, new transmission, etc.

Guys who ride a lot have always done some pretty challenging things in non-competitive situations just to see if they could or prove to others that they can.

I remember riding the Grand Tour of Herman one year. That was a local St Louis ride that was quite similar to Indiana's Hilly Hundred. The first year that I did it, another fellow rode it on a fixed gear track bike. Another time I was completing a mountain bike ride on a medium technical course and saw a guy riding it on a Bridgestone RB2 road bike. I've seen a fellow do a 30 mile ride with no saddle - standing on the pedals the whole way.

I did the AIDS Lifecycle ride a few months ago. One of the people in our group was riding a GMC Denali from Wal Mart. He rode in sneakers and put an extra cushy seat on the thing. He finished all 545 miles, and kept up just fine with the people on carbon bikes.

That doesn't particularly surprise me.

If the bike fits him, everything works and is geared appropriately everything else has minimal impact:

---The weight difference between the $200 and the $4000 bikes will seem like a lot if you carry the bike up a flight of stairs. But is only a small percentage difference of rider + bike weight, and that is the number that matters. Two dudes are on $4000 bikes and one is scrawny the other has a very slight paunch and carries three water bottles. Weight-wise rider #2 is equivalent to the skinny dude on a Wal-Mart bike and then some.

---Cushy seat? Wouldn't be my choice, but, again, minor.

---Sneakers? I am of the group that thinks captive pedals are over-rated.

---Knife edged, aerodynamic seatposts? Now the returns are going to be really small because 98% of the wind drag is the rider.

A screwed up bike will slow down a good rider A LOT, a poor rider will slow down a good bike A LOT, a super cutting edge bike will make a fast rider ONLY A LITTLE BIT faster over a cheap bike that fits and where everything works right.

And, yes, there are cheap bikes where everything works right. Maybe not straight off the Wal-Mart or Costco floor, but give me a 1/2 hour with one and most likely everything will work right. (Not A Huffy -- that IS a lost cause!)

Don in Austin

Thinking back a few years ago i was going for a ride and my college age son said he wanted to go to.He had a pacific mtn. bike not a bad bike but i thought i would blow him away well the young buck kept up for 21 miles. At decent speed.And he was not a bike rider,just young.

I suspect the OP got duped.

I had a guy go screaming past me on a Huffy several years ago. The thing was, the bike did not look right for a Huffy. I realized the guy was riding a high end carbon fiber Trek, and the Huffy decals were on the bike to sorta fool dumb thieves.


This thought passed through my mind. At a nearby university, it's usually the "good" bikes that get swipped.
IDK. If Walmart ever sells a Pugsley I would be very tempted to buy one. And ride it, after a thorough going-over.

OK, I think we can put this thread to rest. I was out at the MUP with my wife today and saw the guy on the Next in one of the parking lots. He had the same bike with him and was getting it ready to start his ride. I was starting to feel like an idiot to go over and ask him about his WalMart bike that smoked me yesterday, but I did anyway.

Yes, it is a Next from Wally World, but only the frame. The rest of the components are high end mountain bike components and the drive train is all XTR Race. He admits that all sorts of people ask him the same thing as to how he gets a WalMart bike to go so fast. The story I got from him (true or not) is that he does mountain bike racing as a semi-pro around the Daytona Beach area and has torn up too many expensive carbon frames in crashes. So now, anytime a frame breaks, he buys a Next or a Mongoose or whatever from WalMart or Target and uses the frame so he isn't out a lot of money replacing frames. Sigh ... and here I thought I had met Super Biker :)

Well, he still smoked everyone, didn't he? - I consider that smoking pretty good.

I suspect the OP got duped.

I had a guy go screaming past me on a Huffy several years ago. The thing was, the bike did not look right for a Huffy. I realized the guy was riding a high end carbon fiber Trek, and the Huffy decals were on the bike to sorta fool dumb thieves.

Some kid from Colorado won the Giro on this steel one.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_atrK-jBKJKY/TAB0pHdDBdI/AAAAAAAAL70/_2Rx3G3Ji-8/s1600/hampsten_88gdt_huffy_full_view_600.jpg

Whoopee?I will add this to my training regime.

You put 290 horse power in a 1968 Mercury Monterey and it will go very fast. You put the same horse power in a 2005 Dodge Neon and the thing will almost fly. Same with bikes. A big engine will roll even a heavy bike... now put it on a weight weenie special and....... Well, it gets interesting.

You put 290 horse power in a 1968 Mercury Monterey and it will go very fast. You put the same horse power in a 2005 Dodge Neon and the thing will almost fly. Same with bikes. A big engine will roll even a heavy bike... now put it on a weight weenie special and....... Well, it gets interesting.

The Monterey vs. the Neon is going to be total weight ratio of almost 2/1.

Total weight ratio of rider on Wal-Mart bike vs same rider on $5k CF bike maybe 1.1/1, even less with heavy rider, little more with light rider.

Misleading analogy.

If you are racing every .01% matters -- understood. Otherwise most dramatic difference in a light bike is if you have to carry it up the stairs to your apartment.

Still, I like light bikes and have 3 of CF frame and seatpost, bars, fork. Difference in best time is less than 10% on my 15 mile urban commute between my slowest and fastest bikes. Slowest is a cheap Schwinn full suspension MTB with some upgraded components and smooth tires. Fastest bike is home made full CF road frame, straight bars, 700 x 28.

If you don't have knobby tires on pavement, bike fits you right, everything works, shifts right etc., the bike is 90% there whether $200 or $2000 and now its up to you.

They tried to kick my riding buddy off of a high-paced road ride one time because he showed up with a Cannondale V full suspension/platform pedals he borrowed from me. He pleaded to be allowed to give it a try and told them he would drop back and fend for himself if it came down to that, and they reluctantly agreed. He finished in the middle of the pack and they all wanted to take pictures of him next to the MTB.

I ride with him when he has his 20 years old 45 lb Pioneer, I ride with him when he has his Trek "Y-Foil." He's faster on the Trek but it's NOT a night and day difference because both bikes fit him and both bikes work right.

Don in Austin

John_V, I was riding in Pinellas County on Saturday in a group ride. A gentleman on a Next framed bike rode with us. He was old enough to qualify to post in this sub-forum, and was pacing along just fine with us at 21mph. Did his share pulling too. The bike had flat bars and some semi-skinny tires. I was impressed and it certainly reminded me that is mostly the engine.

Mark

The Monterey vs. the Neon is going to be total weight ratio of almost 2/1.

Total weight ratio of rider on Wal-Mart bike vs same rider on $5k CF bike maybe 1.1/1, even less with heavy rider, little more with light rider.

Misleading analogy.
If you are racing every .01% matters -- understood. Otherwise most dramatic difference in a light bike is if you have to carry it up the stairs to your apartment.

Still, I like light bikes and have 3 of CF frame and seatpost, bars, fork. Difference in best time is less than 10% on my 15 mile urban commute between my slowest and fastest bikes. Slowest is a cheap Schwinn full suspension MTB with some upgraded components and smooth tires. Fastest bike is home made full CF road frame, straight bars, 700 x 28.

If you don't have knobby tires on pavement, bike fits you right, everything works, shifts right etc., the bike is 90% there whether $200 or $2000 and now its up to you.

They tried to kick my riding buddy off of a high-paced road ride one time because he showed up with a Cannondale V full suspension/platform pedals he borrowed from me. He pleaded to be allowed to give it a try and told them he would drop back and fend for himself if it came down to that, and they reluctantly agreed. He finished in the middle of the pack and they all wanted to take pictures of him next to the MTB.

I ride with him when he has his 20 years old 45 lb Pioneer, I ride with him when he has his Trek "Y-Foil." He's faster on the Trek but it's NOT a night and day difference because both bikes fit him and both bikes work right.

Don in Austin

Only to some. The Walmart Next ships at 46 lbs. Let's assume that 4 lbs can be taken off of that total as shipping material. That gives us a 40 lb bike. If you're riding a bike that weighs 17 lbs. you've got 25 extra lbs with this one. Next time your on a ride with your light weight bike, put 25 lbs of weight in your jersey and see if the analogy is still so misleading. Once at cruising speed the extra weight is not much of an issue, but every time you need to accelerate, or when climbing, it becomes a very big issue

Some kid from Colorado won the Giro on this steel one.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_atrK-jBKJKY/TAB0pHdDBdI/AAAAAAAAL70/_2Rx3G3Ji-8/s1600/hampsten_88gdt_huffy_full_view_600.jpg

Funny, I seem to remember Hamsten's Huffy broke, if it was even a real Huffy, and he rode a Custom built Land Shark painted to look like a Huffy. Much like the earlier story. :innocent:

Even back in 88 not many of us wanted a Huffy. We figured it got its name from how hard they were to get up a hill.:lol:

Only to some. The Walmart Next ships at 46 lbs. Let's assume that 4 lbs can be taken off of that total as shipping material. That gives us a 40 lb bike. If you're riding a bike that weighs 17 lbs. you've got 25 extra lbs with this one. Next time your on a ride with your light weight bike, put 25 lbs of weight in your jersey and see if the analogy is still so misleading. Once at cruising speed the extra weight is not much of an issue, but every time you need to accelerate, or when climbing, it becomes a very big issue I thought my dept. store Schwinn FS was heavy @ 35 lbs, didn't know a Next was 40 lbs! But regardless, rider with clothes and shoes = 160 lbs, "Next" = 40 lbs, water bottles, CO2 cartridges, helmet, + other misc. = 5lbs to a total weight of 205 lbs. Same everything except 17 lb bike, total weight = 182 lbs. Decrease of 11.22% TOTAL WEIGHT. This is the number that matters, this is the weight that has to be moved by leg power from one elevation to another. This is nowhere near the realm of the Monterey vs. the Neon which is more like 50% less total weight.

If the added weight was in my jersey -- which I don't wear, I wear cotton t-shirts :) :) -- then I would definitely feel it in terms of backaches, core fatigue etc. much more so than if it was distributed through the bike. I have two IGH bikes and I don't that much feel the extra 5 pounds in the hub.

Of course weight makes a difference climbing hills, but I just think people are unrealistic as to how much a super light bike can do for them. They literally spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to reduce weight equal to one full water bottle. Makes sense if you race, and I guess it makes sense if that's what you just want to do!
They should probably administer themselves an enema before the ride also.

Engine variations are much more than 11.22% so it should be no surprise that a cheap bike can be ridden far and fast.

Don in Austin

I thought my dept. store Schwinn FS was heavy @ 35 lbs, didn't know a Next was 40 lbs! But regardless, rider with clothes and shoes = 160 lbs, "Next" = 40 lbs, water bottles, CO2 cartridges, helmet, + other misc. = 5lbs to a total weight of 205 lbs. Same everything except 17 lb bike, total weight = 182 lbs. Decrease of 11.22% TOTAL WEIGHT. This is the number that matters, this is the weight that has to be moved by leg power from one elevation to another. This is nowhere near the realm of the Monterey vs. the Neon which is more like 50% less total weight.

If the added weight was in my jersey -- which I don't wear, I wear cotton t-shirts :) :) -- then I would definitely feel it in terms of backaches, core fatigue etc. much more so than if it was distributed through the bike. I have two IGH bikes and I don't that much feel the extra 5 pounds in the hub.

Of course weight makes a difference climbing hills, but I just think people are unrealistic as to how much a super light bike can do for them. They literally spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to reduce weight equal to one full water bottle. Makes sense if you race, and I guess it makes sense if that's what you just want to do!
They should probably administer themselves an enema before the ride also.

Engine variations are much more than 11.22% so it should be no surprise that a cheap bike can be ridden far and fast.

Don in Austin

I can easly tell if the wheel on my bike is IGH or not I would be surprised if you couldn't as well just from the extra weight. Of all of the things I have done to upgrade any of my bikes light weight wheels have made the most noticeable difference. I might not notice a 175 crank from a 170. It would be hard to tell a 16 pound bike from a 19 pound one but 400 grams of wheel weight is like night and day. At least for getting up to speed, closing in a pace line or climbing. when humans only put out about a half horsepower evenry bit of rolling weight is like extra friction, at least that is how it feels.:D I know darn well and extra 5 pounds would feel like a flat tire on a wheel.

I would be more surprised if the Next could be ridden far rather than fast. :rolleyes:

The Walmart Next ships at 46 lbs. Let's assume that 4 lbs can be taken off of that total as shipping material. That gives us a 40 lb bike. If you're riding a bike that weighs 17 lbs. you've got 25 extra lbs with this one.


Wait....what?

Funny, I seem to remember Hamsten's Huffy broke, if it was even a real Huffy, and he rode a Custom built Land Shark painted to look like a Huffy. Much like the earlier story. :innocent:

Even back in 88 not many of us wanted a Huffy. We figured it got its name from how hard they were to get up a hill.:lol:

I thought it was a Serotta. Of course Huffy didn't make Team 7-Eleven's bicycles!

Some mountain bike races included an event called "Huffy Toss" which was a contest to determine who could throw one the farthest.

Pretty simple---------a good engine trumps snobbery and money!!!!! Live with it!!!!

I thought it was a Serotta. Of course Huffy didn't make Team 7-Eleven's bicycles!

Some mountain bike races included an event called "Huffy Toss" which was a contest to determine who could throw one the farthest.

Turns out if you look up the 88 Giro in was a Land Shark custom. Painted team colors. Seems they had a bit more leeway in team bikes back then. Serotta was a sponsor and owned Huffy I think.

Some info on Huffys at the Olympics in this BikeForums thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/326526-Huffy-team-USA-road-bike.

I believe most of the 7-11 team bikes were made by Serotta, but I don't think he owned Huffy.

Pretty simple---------a good engine trumps snobbery and money!!!!! Live with it!!!!

+1 ;-)

Wait....what?

Ah.... someone was paying attention.... math is a bit off, isn't it?

Ah.... someone was paying attention.... math is a bit off, isn't it?

It was, but I just figured he was rounding a little. Does a Next really weight 40 lbs?

Don in Austin

It was, but I just figured he was rounding a little. Does a Next really weight 40 lbs?

Don in Austin

That's what the specifications at WalMart say.

Pretty simple---------a good engine trumps snobbery and money!!!!! Live with it!!!!

Another way of thinking about it is that most of us probably carry that extra 25 lbs in the jersey with us wherever we go.

Losing that 25 lbs is probably going to have a much bigger impact on our riding and our health than spending hundred's of dollars to reduce the weight of bike we ride.

I don't claim credit for that insight. I once asked my son who is a competitive collegiate racer why he didn't spend more on a new bike when he came into a little money. He said, "Look, a lighter bike is much more fun to ride, so my new bike is cool. And I could spend another $1000 and get a bike that was 5 lbs lighter. Or I could lose 5 lbs of fat. When I don't have 5 lbs left lose, maybe I'll think about a more expensive bike."

A duplicate of this thread can be had on any enthusiast forum. Hi-fi, video, motorcycles, guitars, photography. I mention those because they are the things I am "in to."

When I was learning guitar, being from a moderately well-to-do area, all my musical buddies had nice Epis, Gibson, and Fenders. We had to have such guitars and argued passionately about the advantages of this particular neck, fret size and weight, etc. Yeah. Then I got old enough to start going to the clubs where the Chicago bluesmen played and saw their cheap crap guitars AND to hear what came out of them. But I and my pals stuck with our fancy Gibsons. Why not? Our bragging points had to come from somewhere, didn't they?

Later, as a working scientific imager, I had wealthy PhD and MD students come to me for advice on what cameras and lenses to buy. Didn't matter what I said, they'd always go top pro Nikon or something similar. I'd simply point them to the work of Cartier-Bresson who got masterful images with the equivalent of a "Brownie." Of course that never changed their minds.

For some years I ran the Ducatis Unlimited Connection group and website (wrote for Ducati for a couple as well) and enjoyed that group's carbon fiber fetish immensely. From a distance. In truth the ounces saved were as useful to the average rider as the "sponsor" decals and and patches that festooned their bikes and riding gear.

Such is humanity. Live. Love. Laugh. Learn.

-Don

That's what the specifications at WalMart say.

Not sure you can make an assumption to any degree of accuracy based on shipping weight.