"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - To be (cat 4) or not to be (cat 4)

I’m debating on whether I should cat up to 4. I know the only requirement is 10 mass starts. That’s done. But I told myself that I would upgrade when I thought I’d learned all I needed to as a 5.

I now have a grand total of 16 races in (11 this year). Truthfully I don’t think I’m a naturally gifted bike racer. But I don’t care. I have made some nice, hard fought, improvement this year in being able to hang with the pack on 20-30 minute crits by the end of the season. Most of those races I was just hanging on and then finally cracked a top 10 in the last race of the year. I didn’t do any road races this year, though last year I was destroyed in the one that I did. So I guess what this information is leading to is that I’m in no danger of coming in and dominating the cat 5 races next year. Though maybe I can be competitive earlier in the season.

Pros to upgrading

This would present a new challenge in the off season. Maybe a little extra motivation?

I think I could at least hang with the 4’s in the crits next summer though it may be a struggle.

I will probably get to race with many of the guys I raced with this year.

I will be racing against some faster riders which would really challenge my limits.

Cons to upgrading

The cat 4 road races pretty much double in distance compared to the cat 5. I will likely get pummeled on these.

This year I haven’t noticed the 4’s being any less crash prone than the 5’s. In fact, in the races I attended there were more crashes in the 4’s.

Though I’ve gotten more comfortable, I haven’t really spent all that much time riding with the pack in races as I mostly got dropped before the last half of this season. Might it be good to get a little more experience before upgrade?

It might be nice to gain a bit more experience at the front of the pack and maybe be in a position where I would have a chance to podium before upgrading. Or in other words, gain a little more experience in actually “racing” than just hanging on.

I won't really have time to increase my training volume. Though I think the hours I have available may be enough to drag me through cat 4 races.

I’ve talked to a couple of guys who upgraded to 4 and had trouble and at least one of them doesn’t race much anymore (though I think they mostly did road races).

So I guess what it comes down to is I’ve gotten used to working hard and being in the back of the pack and I’m OK with that. I’m trying to decide whether I should just suck it up and, in all likelihood, repeat that MO in the 4’s or hang back and gain a bit more experience and confidence (and maybe better results) in the 5’s.

I know I need to make the decision but any thoughts are certainly welcome.

Upgrade.

In my experience, although a limited one, the jump from 5 to 4 is pretty small. Not anywhere near as hard as the jump from 3 to 2.

Upgrade! Otherwise you aren't making progress..

Agreed. Cat 5 is to get your feet under you, and you're there. Upgrade and you'll also notice a different racing style. Not a great difference, but some teamwork will start to reveal itself.

That 3 to 2 jump was no joke for me (which is why I'm back to 3), but I'll bet you'll improve results going 5 to 4. As you race smarter, Cat 5 actually gets a little harder. It's almost like it's not really bike racing because of the mindless chasing down of everything.

Did you do any 4/5 races last year, and if so, how did you do?

There is no rush to cat up, and if you are concerned, you could start next season and cat up after a few races.

I struggled a lot when I first started racing, and was being dropped in a lot of Cat 5 races. As such, I didn't cat up until I was competitive as a 5, which took close to two dozen races. Now, I am working toward moving up to a 3.

upgrade... you will not find a better motivator for winter training than the certainty that you'll be racing with 4's next year.

Did you do any 4/5 races last year, and if so, how did you do?

There is no rush to cat up, and if you are concerned, you could start next season and cat up after a few races.

I struggled a lot when I first started racing, and was being dropped in a lot of Cat 5 races. As such, I didn't cat up until I was competitive as a 5, which took close to two dozen races. Now, I am working toward moving up to a 3.

Thanks for the discussion so far! I enjoy hearing your experiences. It's more information to throw into the decision making process!

topflightrpo - No - no 4/5 races. And your suggestion is one that crossed my mind. The road races that I would likely do are in the very beginning of the season. So it might be a good possibility to do those as a 5 so it the race doesn't turn into 1/2 race and 1/2 solo tempo ride like the cat 4 race would likely be. :D. Then as soon as that last road race is done - upgrade for crits. A distinct possibility...

Upgrade to 4 ASAP

FYI, I noticed a fairly large increase in intensity moving from Cat5 to Cat4 earlier this season.

However, with that said, I had a fairly significant increase in power and fitness because of upgrading. The only way to improve sometimes is to ride with faster people.

Go ahead and upgrade. If you struggle at the beginning of the year, don't get down on yourself, you'll probably get better and enjoy it more by the end of the year. Overall you'll be a better and faster cyclist that way.

can you do 2-3 races at 5 before cat-ing up so that you've stuck with the pack for the whole race and know what your "race conditioning" is before you go back to being blown off the back?

Where we race, Cat 4/5s are often combined races unless the field is over 100. So, why not? You are riding with the same people often either way. Plus, they just upgrade you whenever they fell like it sometimes. I don't know, 6 starts, hey you are a Cat 4 now! You have no choice, unless you specifically ask to be downgraded.

Get more bang for your buck in the 4s. Plus, you might be eligible to do more races on the same day as a 4.

Im having th same problem. Id like some opinions also.
I have been on a bike all of 5 months. Done 6 crits and a time trial and a overall stage race.
finished 3rd out of 37 in road race missed 1st by 1hundreds of a second.
have 3 top 10 finishes in crits
Finished 4th in overall cc stage race.

I have another stage race next week and ill have my 10

I have been gettig alot of pressure to upgrade to 4 to help the team. The problem is I feel like I have a good shot of a good finish in th state road race in october if I stay a 5 then upgrade the next day for next years season.

What do I do? Upgrade right away or finish out the year at state road rac thn upgrade and go into next year skin a new category

5>4 and 4>3 are no brainers, get out as soon as possible.

3>2 would give me pause only cuz theres no 2 only fields around here, just Pro,1,2.

As far as what you have to learn, you'll learn a lot more upgrading to 4 than you will by staying in the 5's. I was much better as a 4 than a 5 because I found better people to race behind.

Im having th same problem. Id like some opinions also.
I have been on a bike all of 5 months. Done 6 crits and a time trial and a overall stage race.
finished 3rd out of 37 in road race missed 1st by 1hundreds of a second.
have 3 top 10 finishes in crits
Finished 4th in overall cc stage race.

I have another stage race next week and ill have my 10

I have been gettig alot of pressure to upgrade to 4 to help the team. The problem is I feel like I have a good shot of a good finish in th state road race in october if I stay a 5 then upgrade the next day for next years season.

What do I do? Upgrade right away or finish out the year at state road rac thn upgrade and go into next year skin a new category

Go get the Cat 4 state jersey! I'm kind of surprised that there are state champs for Cat 5s, actually.

Yeah. Cat 5 state champ jerseys are silly.

Upgrade. Challenge yourself. What's the worst that can happen? You get dropped. It happens to everyone. Cat 1 2 3 4 5 . Everyone gets dropped.

There is no rush to cat up
Yes there is. 5->4 is an upgrade on experience, not skill. In 10 races you have demonstrated the ability to register, hold a license, pin a number on, listen to officials, race without bringing great endangerment to all who surround you. Job done.

The rush to cat up is that in areas such as ours the small 50 limited cat 5 fields fill way early in pre-reg. If you don't cat up you are taking a spot away from someone looking to enter the sport.

Again - 5->4 is experience based....NOT SKILL. Join me int he 4's and we can get shelled together. I've got lots of great stories and we'll have plenty of time to share them.

Did you do any 4/5 races last year, and if so, how did you do?

There is no rush to cat up, and if you are concerned, you could start next season and cat up after a few races.

I struggled a lot when I first started racing, and was being dropped in a lot of Cat 5 races. As such, I didn't cat up until I was competitive as a 5, which took close to two dozen races. Now, I am working toward moving up to a 3.

incorrect.

Well if its a consolation th cat 5 state championship road race you can't ride on a 1 day license.

Well if its a consolation th cat 5 state championship road race you can't ride on a 1 day license.

:lol: that's like having a dick measuring contest in kindergarten.

my last 4/5s race the c5s took 1st, 2nd, 4th in a primarily-4s field.

5>4 and 4>3 are no brainers, get out as soon as possible.

3>2 would give me pause only cuz theres no 2 only fields around here, just Pro,1,2.

Agreed. Wait, whats Cat 5? :)

I voted upgrade.

Two other pros are that your races will usually be in bigger fields which tends to smooth things out somewhat, and they usually aren't the first race on the docket at o'dark thirty.

I'm a big proponent of doing your ten before upgrading to Cat4. You've done 16. You've also shown the ability to objectively look at yourself and assess your performance and your capabilities. Someone who can do that has no business racing in a pack of wild dogs who chase anything that moves. The next step for you is to figure out how to meter and measure your capabilities in a field surrounded by riders doing the same thing. That's when things get interesting, and a lot more fun. I bet you will find that Cat4 will be easier once you get used to, and train for, the pace. Look into an offseason FTP improvement program.

After Cat4, I'm a proponent of upgrading only after winning at the current level.

Upgrade.

It really isn't any harder or safer than Cat 5.

It is just getting closer to Cat 3.

:lol: that's like having a dick measuring contest in kindergarten.

Well everyone gotta start somewhere. Just because theres no prize money doesn't make it any less worthy to win a CAT 5 state championship. racing for the medal and jersey not for money. But I too will upgrade either right before the state or right after. i only have 7 races in right now anyways

Well everyone gotta start somewhere. Just because theres no prize money doesn't make it any less worthy to win a CAT 5 state championship. racing for the medal and jersey not for money. But I too will upgrade either right before the state or right after. i only have 7 races in right now anyways

Its not about the prize money (ever). We spend way the hell too much on equipment to make any gains off of this sport.

I think its ironic to have a state championship based on a category created and judged only by experience. But what the hell, its a win and we'd all fight for it if we were in your shoes.

Good luck and have fun!

I waited a while to upgrade too because I was waiting for better results before moving up. Once I got to the 4's I realized that I had developed bad habits as a 5 (bad positioning, sitting in the wind too much) because you can get away with shabbier riding. You might shelled next season as a 4 but you'll probably learn more and progress faster as one too.

Cat up then just race Masters.

The problem is I feel like I have a good shot of a good finish in th state road race in october if I stay a 5

Why would you want to be a Cat 5 state champ? That's right up there with 'returning Cat 4 champ'.

Well everyone gotta start somewhere. Just because theres no prize money doesn't make it any less worthy to win a CAT 5 state championship. racing for the medal and jersey not for money. But I too will upgrade either right before the state or right after.

:roflmao2:


i only have 7 races in right now anyways

:twitchy:


Why would you want to be a Cat 5 state champ? That's right up there with 'returning Cat 4 champ'.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v223/botto/bf/94f7e6ea.gif

I guess the same reason someone would want to be a cat 4 champ or 3 champion or 2 champ. see theres allways another level. if its so bad then they should not even have 5s. if your not already in the sport then you shouldnt be allowed to race. thats what your saying. 5 is where you start. why not? next year ones goal would be to be a cat 4 champ and so fourth moving up every year with the sam goal different level. I dont know why im explaining this to you guys. apparently youhave some hate towards 5 . most of you were there at one time or another. if someones not strong enough to be a 4 then till they are 5 is all they have. so to to them it may be the end of whatever they worked hard for this year. being that person may have only been on the bike for 4 to 5 months or doesnt even have 10 races in like myself. set goals then next year reset goals in cat 4. repeat process every year till its unattainable

calm down.

They're just hazing you, James, like when you were a freshman in high school. Don't take it too seriously.

A Cat5 championship is like getting one of these:

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l453/shovelfl/bikeforums/T_11303_Participation.jpg

Yeah, I think Cat 5 state champ is a great goal if it's one of the first 10 races. Holding yourself back to race the Cat 5 state road race is pretty silly. I just don't think they should offer state champ titles to Cat 5s. It's just like having no prize money. Don't reward anyone for prolonging an upgrade out of 5s. Cat 5 is just the ignition system for bike racing, not something to be savored. Learn as much as you can in 10 races, then leave. It's a class of racing where there are very limited useful things to learn, and many many bad habits that you don't want to get too used to.

Honestly, in any given year, the guy who wins the Cat 5 state championship would probably be top five in the Cat 4 state championship. Many years, I'm sure that guy could win the Cat 4 champs.

For the later categories, I never fault someone toeing the line in a state champ race when they carry all their upgrade points. You set a goal in the early season, and if you get your points three weeks early, you may not want to throw away the goals just like that.

I think it's fine if someone wants to be a Cat 4 their whole career too, as long as they aren't just dominating every time they go out there. It's a level of racing that fits a certain training commitment and racing ability.

you get to do longer races and have longer amounts of fun, why wouldnt you wanna upgrade

you get to do longer races and have longer amounts of fun, why wouldnt you wanna upgrade

1. Because if you don't upgrade you start to look like the tall kid with the 5'o-clock shadow squeezing into the 2nd grader's desks.
2. Because the allowable field sizes in 5's are HALF the size of cat 4 fields. When you continue to take a spot past 10 races you are keeping someone else from entering the sport.

Cat 5 is not a competition. We have had multiple racers who are both cat 5 state and "national" (ABR) champs. FWIW....it NEVER shows up on their list of palmares....because they realize it's like saying, "I made the honor roll in kindergarten."

...you have demonstrated the ability to...pin a number...

Oh, BTW - At the start of my second to last race of the season the race official singled me out and said, "Everyone should have their numbers pinned like that. That is perfect!" I used the flat pinning w/ 8 safety pin technique I learned here. So I guess on that alone I should just go ahead and upgrade! :D

Thanks for the discussion guys. The overwhelming consensus appears to be to cat up and take my lumps early in the season on the road races. I'm used to taking lumps. Who knows. Maybe I'll surprise myself! It will certainly change my early spring training a bit to prepare for the added miles.

Thanks again!

1. Because if you don't upgrade you start to look like the tall kid with the 5'o-clock shadow squeezing into the 2nd grader's desks.
2. Because the allowable field sizes in 5's are HALF the size of cat 4 fields. When you continue to take a spot past 10 races you are keeping someone else from entering the sport.

Cat 5 is not a competition. We have had multiple racers who are both cat 5 state and "national" (ABR) champs. FWIW....it NEVER shows up on their list of palmares....because they realize it's like saying, "I made the honor roll in kindergarten."

well i think you misinterpreted my post.

im saying that bike racing is fun and if you get to do a 40 minute crit instead of a 30 minute crit then you should upgrade because that makes for 10 extra minutes of fun. forget the rest of this nonsense

I appreciate all th responses also even if they don't seem friendly towards new racers. I started riding 5 months ago with the goal of not even racing till next season and just building a good base. But I took the advice of u fellow cyclist on here and got out and started racing and have had results that im happy with. Afterwards I was glad I took u guys advice. My goal changed then to finishing out the season in cat 5 with a great road race at states. Now you guys think I should upgrade to 4 before state.. I really am taking it into consideration. I don't at this time have more than 7 mass start events with 4 top 10s and 1 podium in my only road race. I guess once I get my 10 in I will look at upgrading before the end of year as I previously planned

I appreciate all th responses also even if they don't seem friendly towards new racers.

exactly. all these cat 4 all stars need to get over themselves. we get it, "cat 5s aint cool". "its like being on the honor roll in preschool hardy har har CAT 4 HIGH FIVE!"

I went from 5 to 4 as soon as eligible.

I went from 4 to 3 as soon as eligible.

Yeah, I get my ass handed to me a lot.

No, I wouldn't change my decision if I could go back and change it.

exactly. all these cat 4 all stars need to get over themselves.

http://eugeneflashkoepke.smugmug.com/Animals/APES-ARE-HUMAN/i-84TR3b2/0/S/pd12478100089-S.jpg

Why would you want to be a Cat 5 state champ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7t8xwpW8gJQ&feature=player_detailpage

FWIW I think it's cool that folks race at all, and if they win, that's cool too. Winning in self selected categories isn't any less fun, but it is winning in a self selected category that's pretty open to manipulation.

I appreciate all th responses also even if they don't seem friendly towards new racers. I started riding 5 months ago with the goal of not even racing till next season and just building a good base. But I took the advice of u fellow cyclist on here and got out and started racing and have had results that im happy with. Afterwards I was glad I took u guys advice. My goal changed then to finishing out the season in cat 5 with a great road race at states. Now you guys think I should upgrade to 4 before state.. I really am taking it into consideration. I don't at this time have more than 7 mass start events with 4 top 10s and 1 podium in my only road race. I guess once I get my 10 in I will look at upgrading before the end of year as I previously planned

Always friendly to cat 5's. The only reason I am not still one is because I have raced more than 10 races. I think people just get too much emotion wrapped up into all of this categorization stuff. Cat 4 is nothing more than people who have raced more than 10 races. If they do good then they go to 3. 3 is the first category where you can actually say, "hey....I have had SOME success on a bike." Until then we are all just playing at bike racing.

I always have and always will strongly support the idea of getting out of the 5's as soon as possible.

Example - Some here know the story but I met a pro's little brother through work. I got him into racing. His natural ability led to him DESTROYING everyone he raced against. He was on the podium every race he did for the first 5 races. I asked the local upgrade coordinator about getting him out of the 5's so he could start accumulating some real points. This upgrade coordinator is now a National Commissionaire. He said, "If he's at the next race then bring him over so I can meet and talk to him."

Next race comes and I take him over and introduce him. He has a conversation with him that essentially goes, "you can upgrade before 10. Every official has their number. I won't tell you what mine is. The point of the 5's is to learn. I will keep an eye on you today and see whether or not I think you have demonstrated the ability to race safely. After that I may or may not decide to give you the upgrade."

Fair enough and right on point. It wasn't a "OMG you are the brother of an Olympian and current Euro-pro!! You are winning everything! You are no 'meager cat 5'" because even he knows 5's is about experience....NOT SKILL. Even the best physical racers need to be 5's long enough to learn how to do it (hopefully).

The kid won the race by a huge margin and received his upgrade on the spot. He then went through the 4's in a month or so and then took the Cat 3 victory at Downer's in his 2nd race as a 3 that same season:

Watch him come through the corner at 1:12. He attacked about .1-.2 miles before that.

http://youtu.be/YSLgy16CNS0

Even with this kind of natural talent and ability he had a lot to learn (and still does to a degree). Even he wasn't in a hurry to get out of the 5's. He was "afraid" what might happen. He turned out allright.

Are you sure there is even a cat 5 championship in your state? We have a state championship that includes cat 5, but they don't actually get a state champ jersey, it is basically a road race that happens to coincide with the state championships. They are there more so that the promoter can get some more revenue.

I appreciate all th responses also even if they don't seem friendly towards new racers. I started riding 5 months ago with the goal of not even racing till next season and just building a good base. But I took the advice of u fellow cyclist on here and got out and started racing and have had results that im happy with. Afterwards I was glad I took u guys advice. My goal changed then to finishing out the season in cat 5 with a great road race at states. Now you guys think I should upgrade to 4 before state.. I really am taking it into consideration. I don't at this time have more than 7 mass start events with 4 top 10s and 1 podium in my only road race. I guess once I get my 10 in I will look at upgrading before the end of year as I previously planned

here's some more, read this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q3tYpGjnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

here's some more, read this:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51q3tYpGjnL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

I guess this is my last post on bikeforums.net. I come on here to discuss things since im new to cycling and things like this or people making jokes about Cat5 and stuff is all I hear. Sorry to the people who were helpful in these posts

there are some folks who enjoy putting themselves up against weaker competition. there are others who like to step up and face the toughest competition they're eligible to face.

james_amtrak, it seems you have a choice to make. you can likely upgrade now (talk to your regional rep) and get on with the process of facing competition that will make you stronger, or you can continue going up against the same folks. there's really no right answer other than what you decide.

would winning something for which you are overqualified make you happier than a lower placing (but perhaps better time/better ride) amongst a tougher group of competitors?