Fifty Plus (50+) - My town ruined my TT

I have a 15 mi. ride I call my time trial. Two years ago I did it at 17.4 mph and last year, due to less riding, I did it at 17.1 mph. So, this year I'm riding more, getting more fit and losing weight. In fact, I've lost 12 lbs and am starting to feel strong on the hills. A couple weeks ago I did my TT and was beset by headwinds the entire ride. Still managed 17.2 mph and was stoked. No doubt in my mind I could be knocking on the door to 18 mph sometime in late Sept. At age 65 and still 10 lbs over "cycling weight" at 185 lbs. I was really looking forward to future TT's. So, last Monday I went off on my TT and was met by very strong headwinds. I knew this was not the day for records but at least I was getting a good workout and would be ready when that cool, windless, record day arrived. I was about 12 mi. into the ride when I turned left onto Clubhouse Rd., a cyclist favorite around here. Residential and tree lined with a sight rise at the start and nice sloping downgrade with flowing corners Clubhouse Rd. is three miles long and where I gain my speed and make up for some of those hills at the mid-point of the ride. A swift and beautiful way to end the all out blitz to home. WTF!! As I crested the first rise and began to gain speed downhill I hit fresh chip seal. Two miles of chip seal causing the bike to be on the edge of traction and, of course, slowing me down just to stay upright in the corners. At the end of the road where it T's into Tobacco St. I stop and survey the Tobacco St. entrance to Clubhouse Rd. No warning sign until you're 15 feet into the corner and the chip seal. Anyone leaning a bike into that road will be on their ass in a heartbeat. When I got home I was pissed. They chip sealed Clubhouse Rd. which didn't need any work and they never posted an appropriate warning. I was almost too angry to speak when I called the First Selectman's office. Fortunately for them (and me too probably) they were closed and I had to leave a message. They haven't returned it.

If they put in speed bumps next, you'll have a leg up on a cyclocross practice run. Just dismount, carry the bike while running over them and back in the saddle for more chipseal.

Lemonaid from lemons.

At least they didn't barricade it permanently like they do in our community. If the road is well traveled, it will be pretty smooth in a week or two. Our town is 75% chipseal.

Money is tight. I have a friend who is a township supervisor in one of the wealthiest townships in Pennsylvania. He's told me that we can anticipate even more chip seal, because it's cheaper, and the money's not there to do other kinds of repair/maintenance. Looks like you need to find a new course, or change your expectations for improving your times. I wonder if anyone can develop a formula for calculating how much chip seal can slow you down? What is the drag in terms of reduced time for a given wattage output?

Ok I'm a west coast rider, what the heck is chip seal?

It's great timing that you should ask that question.:thumb: On Tuesday I did 3 x 6.7 mile TT intervals, on a TT bike, on my local 3 turn TT course that is out in the countryside. Recently one of the roads was chip/sealed making a section of about 2.5 miles new chip seal, a section 2.5 miles long with smooth pavement and a 3rd 1.7 mile section of worn down chip/seal. I wondered how much the new chip seal took out of my speed during the intervals and looked at the data afterwards. The evening had little to no wind and the course is flat. Riding at the same HR and wattage the speed on the smooth pavement was the fastest @ 26+ mph, the smooth chip seal had an average speed of around 25.2 mph and the fresh chip seal allowed an average speed of 23.7 mph over the intervals. I think the new chip/seal section cost a whole gear in order to keep the cadence between 90-96. I did have to slow down significantly when making the right hand turn onto the fresh chip/seal which may have reduced the average speed a little more in that section.

Ok I'm a west coast rider, what the heck is chip seal?

In NE Ohio it is when they spray a coating of hot asphalt on the roadway then overlay the tar with a coating of #8 limestone. The stones are up to 1/2" in diameter resulting is a course sand paper finish on the road. At first there is an abundance of loose stone that needs to be worn off or brushed off.

Ok I'm a west coast rider, what the heck is chip seal?

It's a coating of stone and an oil-based mixture used to cover roads.

"Tar and chip" to the rest of us :) Some of our roads were done a few weeks ago and are able to be ridden now.

I just rode my 10 mile TT course yesterday, first time in a year. Was disappointed I was over 2 minutes slower. And now your timely post. Yes the chip seal did it. And here I was thinking my 66 year old body was finally failing. At least 3 miles of my route was just done in early August. I stayed off the road for a couple weeks to let the loose stones travel to edge or get pressed into asphalt. But yes the fine bumpy ride is there. Interesting, a road chipped sealed 4 years ago was actually repaved. Nice smooth ride there; but only about 1/2 mile of my route.

One of my sons interned (Civil Engineer) with TxDOT for several summers. The difference between chip seal and smooth hot topped asphalt is substantial. Look for more and more chip seal in the future. In some of the prairie states they are even abandoning lesser state highways, plowing them up, and turning them back to the counties.

Asphalt right now is expensive. Oil is partly to cause. Gas prices are another part of it. You wanted "green", you're getting it. Be careful what you ask for as you might just get it.

It's a coating of stone and an oil-based mixture used to cover roads.

Dang! That stuff is awful. It must shred tires pretty quickly. I'll take California potholes before this stuff.

You wanted "green", you're getting it. Be careful what you ask for as you might just get it.

How about we not insert politics into every discussion... I could provide a long list of other factors, but will refrain from doing so, as it has no place here.

How about we not insert politics into every discussion... I could provide a long list of other factors, but will refrain from doing so, as it has no place here.

An emphatic plus one.

Here in Iowa, they sometimes will substitute tree sap for asphalt or oil. Generally pretty small gravel and within a couple weeks smooth enough to ride comfortably. Beats straight gravel.

how about we not insert politics into every discussion... I could provide a long list of other factors, but will refrain from doing so, as it has no place here.


an emphatic plus one.

yes!!

I hadn't really noticed that chip seal was any slower than any other material. So I guess maybe I'd be riding 19 mph everywhere if only it weren't for chip seal. (By the way, bigger tires do help.) And I've never noticed traction problems on, unless maybe it still had loose gravel.

I wonder how much it lowers gas mileage due to the extra friction. Us bike riders will have to eat an extra doughnut or maybe pie for more fuel.

Ok I'm a west coast rider, what the heck is chip seal?
You can't hide behind geography.:) Over thirty years ago Alameda County, CA started putting chip seal on suburban roads. I still remember the road crew telling me how much better it would be for me because of the increased traction. I just smiled politely and rode off through the not-yet-sealed stones.

I'm getting the feeling that either I wasn't clear or there are different chip seals. What I'm talking about is a stone and oil surface with the stones so loose that bicycle and motorcycle wheels slide a lot. By a lot I mean dangerously. Chip seal pops up and dings the underside of your bicycle, motorcycle, and car. It is not inconsequential. It is a paint killer and dangerous. I had to slow to 10 mph to stay upright where I usually do 20+ mph. It can be very scary. It's not just about being inconvenienced.

just be glad they didn't chip seal a mountain road like they did here. I thought the surface was still pretty good, guess that's why I'm not allowed to maintain roads for a living. There was another road where they used "chips" that were round stones over 1/2" in diameter. I haven't been on that road since I rode my mountain bike on it right after it was chip sealed, I've been afraid.

I'm getting the feeling that either I wasn't clear or there are different chip seals. What I'm talking about is a stone and oil surface with the stones so loose that bicycle and motorcycle wheels slide a lot. By a lot I mean dangerously. Chip seal pops up and dings the underside of your bicycle, motorcycle, and car. It is not in consequential. It is a paint killer and dangerous. I had to slow to 10 mph to stay upright where I usually do 20+ mph. It can be very scary. It's not just about being inconvenienced.

From what I am reading here, there are quite a few varieties. I live on the Illinois Iowa border, and on the Illinois side, most secondary roads are asphalt based. When they apply chip seal if you get into it right after application, it is indeed difficult to ride through. In Iowa, most secondary roads are primarily gravel. They will periodically spray tree sap on top of the gravel to keep down dust. Stay out of the tree sap until it dries or you will have a mess. In our city, they are currently going over asphalt streets with oil and gravel or tree sap and gravel. after a while this sinks in and it becomes more asphalt like.

Well now that we're into it....who knows about "rip rap?"

Well now that we're into it....who knows about "rip rap?"

The big rocks placed along the edge of bodies of water to prevent erosion?

The big rocks placed along the edge of bodies of water to prevent erosion?

You got it.

Well now that we're into it....who knows about "rip rap?"

Latest music craze of the young people? Performed on stream banks?

Large rocks cemented along the banks of a water body. As in there is no more bank unless it's the cement/rocks. Supposedly secures the bank and prevents erosion. Disgusting stuff in my opinion.

Back to the chip seal...We call it "shake 'n' bake around here and it isn't loose, but some of it is very rough.

And +1 for leaving out the gratuitous politics.

If they put in speed bumps next, you'll have a leg up on a cyclocross practice run. Just dismount, carry the bike while running over them and back in the saddle for more chipseal.

Lemonaid from lemons.


Speed bumps should always be bunny-hopped. Dismount is optional based on skill level. :thumb:

I noticed on my ride on Saturday that after our very hot summer, the chip seal didn't seem so bad--between the traffic and the heat, it seemed to have smoothed out. At least the 100+ days were good for something...

I know the feeling, the surface treatment is used a lot these days to save money. But as others have stated, after several weeks everything is good again.

Never seen it, never rode on it. We have glassphalt though. That smoothes out pretty quickly.

Here in central France on the minor roads they simply spray tar and throw on masses of loose gravel , no rolling ! The result is piles of gravel on the road edges up to 3 inches deep , very scary and dangerous when you have to go into it because of passing traffic.:eek:

Well now that we're into it....who knows about "rip rap?"

Yep, rock used to prevent erosion, primarily on banks along bodies of water. But...sometimes the chipcoat that I see sure feels like it.

crazyb: What it the world is "tree sap"? I can't conceive of it being the fluid from live trees. That would take an awful lot of trees to produce enough fluid for even a short stretch of road. Or, it is really tree sap the fluid from trees?

I've never seen a warning sign for chipseal, or oil and rock, other than ones posted for a day or two when it's first done. And they're always placed right at the point where the work starts, so they're really kind of superfluous. You might even say unnecessary. ;)

95% of my riding is on chip-seal, because the county has been using it for about 2 decades; not only for sealing the road (its intended purpose,) but also for a quick-and-cheap (and ineffective) way to patch pot holes, expansion joints, and broken pavement. Around mid-Michigan, they use pea stone. When it's fresh, it's like having a zillion ball bearings on the road. After a year or so of getting worked in, it's not too bad except for the pot holes, expansion joints and broken pavement which are still there.

They use a lot of chip-'n-seal in this part of the UK and it is horrid! I could tell you from personal experience how much harder it makes riding but the pros know best ...

Years ago they held a one day pro race round here called the Leeds Classic and I remember a top British pro rider at the time (Robert Millar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Millar)) complaining that the organisers of the race were "taking the p*ss" with the severity of the route. Yes, it was hilly, but nothing compared to the mountains they race over in France, Italy and Spain. It was the 'heavy', dragging quality of the road surface that did the damage. Only about 30 riders actually finished the race out of well over 150 top pro starters.

Occasionally, a stretch of road will be repaired without any stone chips being added and when I cycle over one of those stretches, my speed goes up by 2-3 mph without any extra effort!

It also makes a big difference to the tyre pressures that I ride with. Without the chips I'd go something like 100 (PSI) F/110 R but I can't stand the rough ride on local roads so I use more like 85-90 F/95-100 R.

Heh.. chip seal is smooth compared to some of the streets in the Toronto area. The asphalt gets chewed up by a combination of frost, ice and utility contractors who for whatever reason just love to carve up the pavement and then sort of pave it over and seal the seams with liquid tar. The ice and the frost eats away at the cracks in the asphalt leaving a surface that feels like riding on cobblestones. Every now and then the city will come around and seal some of the longer cracks leaving seams that are worse than a badly laid expansion joint. Then of course we have frost heaving which makes everything even worse. To add insult to injury, the snowplows then finish off whatever is left. The further away you get from the city, the better the roads get.

Potholes are another story altogether.

From the City of Toronto website:
"It’s a job that keeps City crews busy. In 2010, more than 275,000 potholes of all shapes and sizes were fixed by city staff. It’s also an expensive job. It costs the City about $6 million each year to fix the problem."

Some of the potholes were so good at eating both rims and tires of cars and trucks that the city put up a link: http://www.toronto.ca/finance/insurance_claimsqanda.htm#17 for insurance claims and another one to report potholes: http://www.toronto.ca/311/selfservice/pothole_repair.htm

How about we not insert politics into every discussion... I could provide a long list of other factors, but will refrain from doing so, as it has no place here.

Thanks for expressing the sentiment I was ready to post!

Bill

Thank heavens for stimulus money for shovel ready projects like this!

J.

So, today was an excellent cycling day...cool...no wind. I decided I would do my TT and just ride the chip seal part in the car tracks. Decided to go for it and ride as hard as I could. Even with the chip seal I managed 17.3 mph which is only .1 mph off my best time for this ride. My goal for this season is to do it at 18 mph but that's looking a little out of reach given the chip seal and the end of the season looming here in CT. But, it was still a very good day. :)

In NW Florida , or as some call it Baja Alabama or L.A. (Lower Alabama, got caught with this one by a DI in the Marines when he asked how many of us turds were from L.A. I raised my hand and got a "friendly" glare, thought it was heaven for a few seconds.:roflmao2:) chip seal is nice and smooth for us. The neighborhood I grew up in had large rocks/gravel in asphalt and when you fell it was hamburger time for knees, elbows and faces. I know:notamused:.
Bill

Meridian, Idaho, here.... they applied a layer of chip seal late summer to quite a few of the roads here and did a very poor job of it. You are starting to notice where vehicles transit because they are leaving deep indentations... literally, on the road. There is loose rocks everywhere, large enough to do serious damage to vehicles body and glass. And the quality of work is so poor at the edges, that you could swear that the road was simply left unfinished. I mean there are significant holes, gouges, and sections lose or unfinished at the edges. And the bike lanes are so poorly surfaced that you darn near can lose your liver riding over them. The issue with the chip seal roads here is enough to create a significant health issue to riders using stiff frames and anything smaller than a 28cm wide tire. I'm having to park my Allez with the regular 700 x 23cm tires at the advice of my physician and shop for a road bike that can effectively dampen the jolting to the body that these chip seal roads creates. Heck, I may go for a cyclocross type frame... might as well since a lot of these roads could probably qualify as off road type surfaces now.

Update: after leaving an angry message to the Town's offices about the lack of warning for cyclists leaning into a corner only to hit the chip seal, the Town responded by doing nothing.

Yep, rock used to prevent erosion, primarily on banks along bodies of water. But...sometimes the chipcoat that I see sure feels like it.

crazyb: What it the world is "tree sap"? I can't conceive of it being the fluid from live trees. That would take an awful lot of trees to produce enough fluid for even a short stretch of road. Or, it is really tree sap the fluid from trees?

The basic composition
is lignin sulfonate which is a
by-product of the pulp milling industry.

The basic composition
is lignin sulfonate which is a
by-product of the pulp milling industry.

Ahhh, that is what it is. Thanks for the education.