Advocacy & Safety - NYC critical mass this past week.

was anyone who browses this forum there?? 16 arrested...and this flyer passed out?

Here is the text of the flyer the NYPD was handing out at Union Square tonight:

"NOTICE TO BICYCLISTS

* THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT REQUIRES YOUR COOPERATION IN COMPLYING WITH THE LAW AND PROTECTING THE PUBLIC FROM HARM.

IT IS DANGEROUS AND ILLEGAL TO RIDE A BICYCLE IN A PROCESSION ON THE PUBLIC STREETS WITHIN NEW YORK CITY, IF A PERMIT FOR THE PROCESSION HAS NOT BEEN ISSUED BY THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT

NO PERMIT HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR A BICYCLE PROCESSION FOR TONIGHT, NOVEMBER 26, 2004

IF YOU CHOOSE TO RIDE IN A PROCESSION THIS EVENING, YOU WILL BE ARRESTED AND YOUR BICYCLE WILL BE SEIZED

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION"

When asked what constituted a "procession", representatives from the NYPD's Community Affairs Department consulted with NYPD legal and informed riders that "more than two" is a procession.



...

When asked what constituted a "procession", representatives from the NYPD's Community Affairs Department consulted with NYPD legal and informed riders that "more than two" is a procession.



...

That is soooo f@#ed up, "more than two"!!!!! truly ridiculous, so what about a family riding down the street.

and here we are liberating other nations so called "freedom"

makes me think of a certain Agnostic Front song

Time to install a riot shield to get my cruiser battle-ready...

I know it may counter the original idea but in protest of what is going on now, maybe you guys should stick to the traffic laws and continue with CM. New York law sees cyclists as vehicles requiring you ride on street and obey traffic laws. CM is in and of itself is not a violation of the law as long as you follow those laws.

The way i see it, you are eventually going to lose mass participation the way it carrys on now. The point is to raise awareness and you can accomplish that with a planned route that obeys traffic laws and circles blocks to maintain crtical mass.

...just my 2cents

thats the same flyer they pass out around every critical mass in NYC... at least the one I have seen since the RNC Mass. I think they make a lot of threats but cant really follow through. Most of the people that get arrested at these things get arrested because they do dumb stuff. Its not illegal to ride through NYC, but it is illegal to stop your bike in the middle of the intersection or throw rocks through the windows of SUV's. With that said, keep riding!

thats the same flyer they pass out around every critical mass in NYC... at least the one I have seen since the RNC Mass. I think they make a lot of threats but cant really follow through. Most of the people that get arrested at these things get arrested because they do dumb stuff. Its not illegal to ride through NYC, but it is illegal to stop your bike in the middle of the intersection or throw rocks through the windows of SUV's. With that said, keep riding!

No, that's not the same flyer they have been handing out since the RNC. There has been less and less tolerance for Mass riders. If you've been going for the past few months, you would know that. I've seen people get arrested for no reason. It's almost like they're just picking people off because no one is doing anything illegal.

Apparently they changed the law so that it is illegal to simply ride the mass?

CM is in and of itself is not a violation of the law as long as you follow those laws.


Actually, the flyer says that even a traffic obeying Courteous Mass is illegal.

thats the same flyer they pass out around every critical mass in NYC... at least the one I have seen since the RNC Mass. I think they make a lot of threats but cant really follow through. Most of the people that get arrested at these things get arrested because they do dumb stuff. Its not illegal to ride through NYC, but it is illegal to stop your bike in the middle of the intersection or throw rocks through the windows of SUV's. With that said, keep riding!

This is a different flyer this month. And the recording they played this month threatened preemptive arrests.

No, that's not the same flyer they have been handing out since the RNC. There has been less and less tolerance for Mass riders. If you've been going for the past few months, you would know that. I've seen people get arrested for no reason. It's almost like they're just picking people off because no one is doing anything illegal.


Original Post.
"NOTICE TO BICYCLISTS

* THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT REQUIRES YOUR COOPERATION IN COMPLYING WITH THE LAW AND PROTECTING THE PUBLIC FROM HARM.

IT IS DANGEROUS AND ILLEGAL TO RIDE A BICYCLE IN A PROCESSION ON THE PUBLIC STREETS WITHIN NEW YORK CITY, IF A PERMIT FOR THE PROCESSION HAS NOT BEEN ISSUED BY THE NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT

NO PERMIT HAS BEEN ISSUED FOR A BICYCLE PROCESSION FOR TONIGHT, NOVEMBER 26, 2004

IF YOU CHOOSE TO RIDE IN A PROCESSION THIS EVENING, YOU WILL BE ARRESTED AND YOUR BICYCLE WILL BE SEIZED

THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION"

When asked what constituted a "procession", representatives from the NYPD's Community Affairs Department consulted with NYPD legal and informed riders that "more than two" is a procession.

FLYER HANDED OUT AT THE RNC

"It is illegal to ride a bicycle in a procession on the public streets within Nyew York City if a permit for the procession has not been issued by the NYC police department.

Bicyclist are subject to the same rules of the road applicable to motor vehicles including obedience to all official governmental signs, signals, markings, and other devices erected for the purpose of regulating, warning or guiding traffic

Bicyclists may not ride on sidewalks, expressways, drives, highways interstate routes, bridges, tunnels and thruways

Bicyclists must ride in usable bicycle lanes or near the curb or edge of the roadway and not more than two abreast

Bicyclists may not impede pedestrian or vehicular traffic, intentionally impeding governmental and emergency vehicles is a serious offense.

Violators of the foregoing are subject to arrest and bicycle seizure

Issued by the New York City Police Department"

Seems pretty close to me.

with that said, I would have to argue that there is no reason for the police to simply "pull people off the road" unless they were doing something to provoke it. I have lived in both NYC and Philadelphia and am not nieve to the injustice facing cyclists, but at the same time I also know that unless the police are able to show some sort of cause, they cannot just pull people off the road. The arrests I have seen at these events (and I have seen quite a few) usually are the result of someone arguing with an officer, getting off their bike in the middle of an intersection, blocking traffic [corking] to allow the rest of the cyclists to ride through against the light (which I always appreciate when they do that, but they have to realize that they can be arrested for it), or just doing something dumb and violent (throwing rocks or garbage). I am not against critical Mass. I fight for the rights of cyclists all the time and I am one of the people who uses his bike for everthing (dont own a car and I dont use mass transit usually) so I ride 7 days a week in the city rain or shine. I think things are getting tougher at all the CM events, but I have to put SOME responsibility on the people who are riding. Its great to ride in a large group and show the motorized public that bicycles are part of the road and deserve the same respect as cars and pedestrians, but at the same time, when you have a lot of tension in a crowd, people are bound to do things that will get them in trouble. With that said, I hope people continue to do the CM rides, but I hope they dont allow the stress put on them by the City cause them to do something dumb.

what is really screwed up about the whole thing is that they are requiring a permit. This is next to impossible unless you have covered all the your bases, policing, restrooms, first aid, all the things that require mass cash.

the only way to beat this is to have a mass soo large it would completely overwhelm the city, a few of these and they will be forced to address cyclists issues. Of course this is what CM is about but ridership is still too low. Maybe there needs to be an International CM and the first place is New York.

International Critical Mass - 2005 New York
Bring yourself, bring a friend and bring a bike.

Of course as soon as you organize such an event you always get splinter groups pushing their own agendas.

This is an issue that will be dealt with soon, truth is there are more and more cars on the road everyday, driving will eventually have to become an ineffective and impractical method of transporation.

I have a better idea. Instead of critical mass taking over a street, how about critical mass taking over, oh, Grand Central Station.

No riding. Just 1000 people show up at the same time, pack into Grand Central, and sit there in the main concourse.

Then a month later, do the same thing on the subway. 1000 cyclists squeeze onto one subway train.

Maybe the month after go back to Union Square, 1000 strong, and just sit there and wait...

And wait...

And wait...

And as the police fume because they can't stop you from hanging around, you just chuckle....

And wait...

And wait...

And wait...

Until they can't take it anymore, because you know they won't leave; they want to get you when you ride.

But you don't ride. You just waste their time...

And you wait...

And wait...

And wait...

And you frustrate the hell out of them.

Then you start calling the media and asking them to look into how much the waiting game cost the city.

Maybe then people will realize how frigging ridiculous this whole thing really is.

(flyertext)Seems pretty close to me.

Not to belabor this but...actually the October flyer detailed an approved route, gave instructions for cyclists wishing to leave the route and detailed the sorts of things that would lead to arrest. That ride went really well...until the police themselves forced riders off of the route they themselves detailed on their own flyers.

I think I have a copy of the October flyer somewhere. I remember I made a point of asking for an extra one because the language seemed to be in direct contradiction of the recent court decision.


with that said, I would have to argue that there is no reason for the police to simply "pull people off the road" unless they were doing something to provoke it. I have lived in both NYC and Philadelphia and am not nieve to the injustice facing cyclists, but at the same time I also know that unless the police are able to show some sort of cause, they cannot just pull people off the road. (snipped many good points for space)

You'll have to take my word for it...the arrests at the last few CMs have been for no reason other than for participation in CM. Not to belabor my own personal experience, but though I was only cuffed and detained at the Brooklyn CM in November, I was one of a group of three riders there to participate on a cold, windy, wet night. Is three even enough to constitute a procession? Honestly, even if the Mass had been allowed to proceed, there wouldn't have been any way we could have done anything but ride bikes...three is far too few to calm any traffic or take over any streets.


With that said, I hope people continue to do the CM rides, but I hope they dont allow the stress put on them by the City cause them to do something dumb.
People in NYC seem to be pretty good at tolerating this sort of nonsense in the hope that it will pass. Even at the RNC ride, I only saw one guy who was being obnoxious to the olice, and even that was kept to the level of non-profane abuse. There are *******s at every ride, of course, and owning & riding a bike doesn't make anyone a saint, but the majority of NYC CM riders I've met at recent rides have been in good humor about the whole thing.

I have a better idea.

This is a good idea. There's been a push to get CM riders on to a txt flash system for the rides. If a core of 200 people could be relied upon to turn up at your "stand-and-wait" events, they would be large enough to frustrate. I think it would eventually be effective.

The thing I keep thinking about on Friday's ride is those helicopters. How much GD money did it cost to keep multiple helcopters aloft for hours and hours like that? and to what end?

I felt like I was in frigging Watts LA on Friday with the damn helis going over.

I felt like I was in frigging Watts LA on Friday with the damn helis going over.

Dude, you should have been there in August when we had not just helis but a blimp! That was sweet!

There were blimps there, but most of them were in those little scooters glaring at passing cyclists.

Sorry. I still haven't gotten over Friday :D

What NYC is doing doesn't sound right, man. Why are they so anal about it? Do people normally ignore all the traffic laws and harass drivers or something?

That's absolutely ridiculous that three people on bikes constitute a procession.

HOLY CRAP, WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE?

Why not have the next Critical Mass right in front of Madeline Provenzano's office? Seriously... Her Bronx office or her Manhattan office... Start there, and repeatedly circle the block! It would be priceless!

What NYC is doing doesn't sound right, man. Why are they so anal about it? Do people normally ignore all the traffic laws and harass drivers or something?

That's absolutely ridiculous that three people on bikes constitute a procession.

I don't think people in NYC are any bigger idiots during CM than in other cities. The problem, IMHO, is this:

NYC has a billionaire Republican mayor who brought the RNC here despite the fact that this is an overwhelmingly Democratic city. There was an enormous amount of very vocal opposition on the streets before and during the convention, and, chronologically, the first protest to draw a lot of attention and cause mass arrests was the August CM, which was listed by Times Up as part of their "Bike National Convention" but which would have taken place (although with many fewer people) regardless of where the RNC was held. At any rate, the A31 CM was a thumb in the Republican mayor's eye, and demonstrated how ill-prepared the NYPD was to allow peaceful protest without trampling on civil rights.
Fast forward a month...the convention is over, but Commissioner Kelly and Mayor Bloomberg's egos are still bruised. All of the protesters have gone home and are untouchable....except for Critical Mass. So what's going on now, IMHO, is payback for the August CM.

My 2¢, anyway. I'd be glad to hear alternate theories, though.

HOLY CRAP, WHY DIDN'T I THINK OF THIS BEFORE?

Why not have the next Critical Mass right in front of Madeline Provenzano's office? Seriously... Her Bronx office or her Manhattan office... Start there, and repeatedly circle the block! It would be priceless!

I suggest a silent vigil, marked only by the relentless sound of bicycle bells and horns. ;)

the only way to beat this is to have a mass soo large it would completely overwhelm the city, a few of these and they will be forced to address cyclists issues. Of course this is what CM is about but ridership is still too low. Maybe there needs to be an International CM and the first place is New York.

International Critical Mass - 2005 New York
Bring yourself, bring a friend and bring a bike.

...that would be so great if something like that could be pulled off...i mean, realistically it could happen...would be great to kick off the world messenger gathering there next year...

what is really screwed up about the whole thing is that they are requiring a permit. This is next to impossible unless you have covered all the your bases, policing, restrooms, first aid, all the things that require mass cash.

the only way to beat this is to have a mass soo large it would completely overwhelm the city, a few of these and they will be forced to address cyclists issues. Of course this is what CM is about but ridership is still too low. Maybe there needs to be an International CM and the first place is New York.

International Critical Mass - 2005 New York
Bring yourself, bring a friend and bring a bike.

Of course as soon as you organize such an event you always get splinter groups pushing their own agendas.

This is an issue that will be dealt with soon, truth is there are more and more cars on the road everyday, driving will eventually have to become an ineffective and impractical method of transporation.

As more and more cars get on the road, that will happen.

As far as I'm concerned, driving in Manhattan is already outmoded by pretty much anything else.

Keep fighting! If you work or live in NYC and you call yourself a cyclist, you need to join these rides. Stand up for your rights! It is your duty as an American to make a stand against this kind of repression. I have a parading without a permit charge on my record that I'm quite proud of. Wish I could join you guys! I'll do every CM in DC from now on in support of cycling in my city. You guys are an inspiration to me. Thank you!

Hooray! Finally some praise for us NYC bikers! Thanks qm!!

Yeah it was so disheartening last week. I'm looking forward to the next Time's Up legal meeting so I can hear some more information about what was happening, what was up with the disinformation, and what court proceedings are going on.

It's really shameful the way they are treating us, and yes, financially they must be taking a beating trying to keep this up. And for what?

I'm making a "BIKING IS NOT A CRIME" sign and attaching it to my vest.

Most states' traffic laws allow municipalities the local authority to regulate processions. The core issue affecting CM and group cycling in general is the intended meaning of procession.

The typical meaning of procession, in traffic terms, is a group that is traveling together in a manner that has some formal order that is intended to be uninterrupted or unbroken for the duration of the journey. For example, a funeral procession should not be broken apart by other uninvolved parties breaking into the line; for this reason traffic law often allows red lights to be run by drivers who are following one another as part of a funeral procession, and prohibits other drivers from driving across the procession.

In those cases where keeping a procession group together requires bending or breaking the ordinary rules of the road in ways like this, there is often increased danger to the public - for instance, an unsuspecting driver with a green light failing to recognize the conflict in time. In response, cities often provide police support to plug the intersections to make them safe for the procession, and they may require a permit for processions (particularly parades) in order to give the police time and notice to plan for an appropriate safety effort.

So the big question is, is Critical Mass a group of people who happen to be traveling to the same destination at the same time (be they following one another or not) while following the ordinary traffic rules and thus creating no special danger, or are they a procession intended to be unbroken by intrusions of other traffic, therefore requiring operation contrary to the ordinary traffic rules in order to maintain their continuity and formation? In the former case, Critical Mass should require no permit and any such requirement would be an onerous infringement on travel rights; in the second, it is quite reasonable to require a permit for an activity contrary to the normal traffic rules.

I sometimes ride with cycling clubs who face similar issues even though they have no activist political agenda: when a traffic light changes when half of a large group has made it through, some of the club cyclists want to see the whole group proceed through despite the red, while others prefer to break the group apart and stick to the ordinary rules of the road. If the group is tight together, as continuous as the trailer of a big rig, then their combined visibility *usually* makes running the red reasonably safe. But the traffic law doesn't allow for this unless the cyclists are recognized as a processsion, and this might very reasonably require a permit if there is a chance of causing a hazard.

-Steven Goodridge

Cycling clubs have an easy solution, don't go across the red. People past it should slow up and wait. Problem solved.

Defining a procession as more than 2 is downright Orwellian. You guys gotta have a cyclist lawyer in NYC who can help out. The cops don't get to define what words mean, the courts do. If procession means more than two, then . . .

More than two cars going to the same destination need a permit.
A family with any children riding their bikes needs a permit every single time they ride together as a family.

This is patently ridiculous. Any NYC cyclist lawyers should look for precedents in NY state law about the legal definition of procession and CM can respond accordingly. Like I said, the cops don't get to decide what words mean.

With all due respect, the "procession" rule is BS to the third degree. If CM decided to ride two abreast (legal) all the way to the right (legal) and follow every traffic law (legal), you can bet every last dollar that something else would be "cause" to pull people off the road.

The majority of people who ride in Critical Mass can be arrested for equipment violations. Do you have a head light, taillight, bell and reflectors?

The majority of people who ride in Critical Mass can be arrested for equipment violations. Do you have a head light, taillight, bell and reflectors?

Why, yes! Yes, I do! ;)

Why, yes! Yes, I do! ;)

Ditto that. And even so, that's grounds for a fine, not for an arrest, and seizure of your property.

new article up (via www.nybma.com): http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/30/nyregion/30wide.html

November 30, 2004
CITYWIDE
For Activists, a Place of Aid and Comfort
By DAVID GONZALEZ

Twenty years ago, Steve Stollman decided he wanted to do something positive for himself and for the city. After fighting without luck the city's plans to slather advertisements on bus shelters, he was looking for a cause that would embrace his belief in human-size alternatives to mass-marketed urban life.

He settled upon bicycling and welcomed into his East Houston Street storefront the various groups that promoted it.

"My life had been tied up around trying to stop people from doing something," he said. "Negative, negative, negative. I got involved with bicycling because I wanted to do something nonconfrontational."

Well, that was the plan. In recent months police officers have taken to coming by his storefront on the days that Critical Mass sponsors its meandering rides about town. On Friday, nearly two dozen officers - on bicycles, Mr. Stollman noted wryly - waited across the street while about 100 riders danced inside after the ride. Others were not so lucky, as the police arrested 17 of them during the ride.

"I've got this gray cloud over me," said Mr. Stollman, 62. "If I become involved in an issue, all of a sudden it becomes confrontational and difficult."

Over the years, he has given aid and comfort to news dealers who are fighting the city's plan to replace their stands with little more than tricked-up billboards; bicycle messengers who were once demonized as a rolling threat to street life; and Time's Up, an environmental group that supports the monthly Critical Mass rides.

Such is his solidarity that he even put in storage the antique bars he refurbishes and sells - his main source of income - to let larger groups meet at his storefront.

Andrew G. Celli Jr., a lawyer for the news dealers, said the storefront he jokingly called "conspiracy central" serves a serious and public purpose.

"It is a home for all these things that have been cast off by the culture," he said. "But they have an intrinsic value, are based in history and are community oriented."

None of this should come as a surprise, since Mr. Stollman started out in the city distributing underground newspapers like The Chicago Seed as well as various so-called "comix." He can still recall the names of two of the three Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers. (Fat Freddy and Phineas Phreak - Freewheelin' Franklin eluded his memory.)

The news dealers he met more than 30 years ago were often blind or veterans whose politics were the opposite of the papers Mr. Stollman distributed. Yet they took a chance on him as long as the papers sold.

Mr. Stollman said their acceptance impressed him.

"You're blind, you're on the street, and everybody is trying to rip you off," he said. "Yet you are taking the additional risk of selling literature that is politically dangerous. I couldn't believe how vulnerable they were."

He meant that literally, too, since the stands were often ramshackle green huts better suited to a bygone era when they sold only newspapers. He decided to learn woodworking and build sturdier stands. To do this, he moved to a storefront at 49 East Houston Street, between Mott and Mulberry Streets, in 1974, and later bought the building.

The neighborhood then was not exactly chic.

"The week I moved in there was a tabloid headline, 'Firemen Might Get Paid This Week,' " he said. "It was very scary. People were moving out of New York City. It looked like the city was not going to make it."

The storefront, built in the 19th century (and looking it), had been through a few incarnations as a bar, including one known to locals as the place where police officers on the take got their regular envelopes.

As interesting as the building's past was, the neighborhood's history was more appealing. Jacob Riis, who exposed the underside of urban life, once worked as a police reporter nearby. Puck magazine, which satirized the powerful and the self-righteous, was published a block away. Nikola Tesla, the inventor who competed with Thomas Alva Edison, had his laboratory across the street.

If there is a place for maverick karma, he has found it.

It could explain why he has opened his doors to more and more groups who have challenged business as usual in New York, groups that used to float around parks and plazas. "There are all these buildings which have plazas, and they have to welcome you, up to a point," Mr. Stollman said. "But here, people can come around and in terms of advocacy of their issues, it gives them a place where they can exist. It is as much a psychological thing. You have public spaces, but you know you are still a guest there who at some point might not be welcomed."

Members of Time's Up said that since they started coming to Mr. Stollman's space they have been able to expand their activities. They now offer workshops on bicycle repair, as well as legal clinics to deal with their unexpected transformation into urban anarchists on two wheels.

"Face-to-face communication is so important in any movement that wants to go forward," said Rick Conroy, a volunteer with Time's Up. "Before, we met in coffee shops. Now we can have a meeting with 20 people. And it's bike friendly."

How much longer it remains so is uncertain. Mr. Stollman knows he could sell to developers who have transformed the area.

While sitting at a broad table in an upstairs alcove, where the walls are plastered with vintage street and subway signs and the tin ceiling is partially covered with billowing Indian print blankets, Mr. Stollman mulled over two requests for meeting space, from the satirical protesters Billionaires for Bush and another outfit calling itself Bush on Crack.He had promised his partner, Melissa Miller, that he would sell the place and move upstate. Ms. Miller, who works for the Visiting Nurse Service, said the decision was his, but she fully understands what is at stake.

"It used to be you could walk around the city and see these little stores and you wondered what they did inside," she said. "It was curious. It was whimsical. Now there is no whimsy. There is only hard-edged business. Steve's is one of the last places of whimsy that I know of. It's a dying breed, places of whimsy."

Mr. Stollman says that the groups he has taken in perform a public service, which he sees as making sure the streets and sidewalks serve the common good and not corporate interests. He insists that the cyclists he has welcomed into his house of whimsy might actually change the city. The riders, he said, approach their cause with joy and seriousness, two traits he thinks are indispensable.

"People are in a very depressed state because they see things as bad and getting worse," he said. "The antidote is joyful, constructive activity. Oh, there are pills, also. Unfortunately, after a certain period of time they seem to stop working."

Good article, it takes away most of the rhetoric and puts a more human side on things. It would be nice to see some profiles or interviews with some of the more passionate and articulate critical mass participants in the mainstream press, as well (although I think coverage in the Village Voice would do just fine...). :)

Turd you are awesome for posting that. Great article! Are you in Time's Up? Do you ride CM? Welcome to the boards!

What NYC is doing doesn't sound right, man. Why are they so anal about it? Do people normally ignore all the traffic laws and harass drivers or something?

That's absolutely ridiculous that three people on bikes constitute a procession.

Yes it's ridiculous, and yes I slow down to check, then run every red light and stop sign on my way to work. I try to avoid sidewalks and getting in the way of pedestrians though. So it's kind of a give and take kind of thing.

I wonder if anyone's thought of making flyers with exerpts from the police flyers and also their statement that a procession with more than 2 riders requires a permit titled "FAMILIES AND FRIENDS MAY NOT RIDE TOGETHER WITHOUT PRIOR PERMIT FROM CITY" and handing it out to people everywhere.
They want to destroy your quality of life, why not get that message out to EVERYONE. Sure, you hardcore martyrs (all 3-4 of you that I see posting here about CM on a regular basis) can post all you want, but if you want changes, you'll need to get people in the city involved. Normal every day people, families, people who ride together for safety and for fun. People who ride to picnics on weekends. People who ride together to cafes and events. When you plaster the city with the fact that they're in some kind of orwellian police state where you need a permit before doing any of those things that everyone else in the world take for granted, then you'll have people's attentions.

That won't connect with anyone slvoid, because the average person in the city isn't affected and won't be, and until they are at some point way down the road, handing out that flyer makes you just another one of the idiots handing out Jews for Jesus brochures.

That won't connect with anyone slvoid, because the average person in the city isn't affected and won't be, and until they are at some point way down the road, handing out that flyer makes you just another one of the idiots handing out Jews for Jesus brochures.

Be creative, I'd just make it look like an official statement and post it around the city. Because guess what, it IS (according to what I hear) an official statement from the city. You'd be surprised, you don't have to be a cyclist to realize that certain laws just don't make sense. And when you tell most people that their kids can't ride around with their friends without a permit, they understand.
The more you try to isolate everyone else from the 0.001% of the population that thinks biking is the end all to life's solutions, the less effective cycling advocacy will be. It doesn't help anyone to give up before trying.

I wonder if anyone's thought of making flyers with exerpts from the police flyers and also their statement that a procession with more than 2 riders requires a permit titled "FAMILIES AND FRIENDS MAY NOT RIDE TOGETHER WITHOUT PRIOR PERMIT FROM CITY" and handing it out to people everywhere.

Not to state the obvious, but why don't you go ahead and do this if you think it would be effective instead of taking cracks at people and calling us "hardcore martyrs" with a 'touch' of sarcasm?

Make an effort and lead by example. I would love it!

You'd be surprised, you don't have to be a cyclist to realize that certain laws just don't make sense.

But you do have to be one, preferrably one who cares, to see the point.

I don't disagree with you that most people can see when a law doesn't make sense. But you need a whole lot more than "isn't this stupid?" to get the average working class stiff to pay attention.

Know what got me to the critical mass ride last week?

Not the ride. I could care less. I ride when I want without the damn CM ride.

Not the people... Heck, the people I was going there to meet ended up somewhere else altogether (no offense guys, just making a point) and I booked before it got too much hotter than it was...

Not the cause of promoting cycling... I'm not 100% sure (mostly 50% sure) that it does that.

I was there because I heard what the police were doing to cyclists. Until I witnessed it for myself, I just flat out didn't believe it. But look what it took to get me there. And I am a bike rider!

That's my point; the average person may see it's stupid, but won't see enough in the stupidity of it to warrant action. You know as well as I do this is a very apathetic city.

Not to state the obvious, but why don't you go ahead and do this if you think it would be effective instead of taking cracks at people and calling us "hardcore martyrs" with a 'touch' of sarcasm?

Make an effort and lead by example. I would love it!

Not to state the obvious either but I'm not the one leading 95% of the discussions in the advocacy forum about reform and change. And obviously I'm stating an additional way that this can be further accomplished. I fail to see how much change I can make if the people who are so "vocal" here won't even try to consider it. I'm at the consideration stage but I'm not the one who's leading all the advocacy talk either.
And I'm absolutely dead serious about the martyrs comment, how do you think the city views people in CM? Fuzzy warm hippies that go around riding flowers and hugging people? I think not. The city sees CM as a threat, like it or not, this is how they choose to respond to it. So the people who want to lead the fight against the city oughta do all they can.

That's my point; the average person may see it's stupid, but won't see enough in the stupidity of it to warrant action. You know as well as I do this is a very apathetic city.

EXACTLY. It's an uphill battle. So while it might make a very tiny difference, as the city clamps down more, as people get scared to bike, as the public grows more and more disinterested, we're gonna need every little bit of help we can get.
Then again, I wonder if all this police activity would eventually die down and in 24-36 months the police will become as apathetic as they were 24-36 months ago about bikers.

We're going to.

Wanna join our rides? (See the "Only in New York" thread)

Then again, I wonder if all this police activity would eventually die down and in 24-36 months the police will become as apathetic as they were 24-36 months ago about bikers.

I think you're onto something there buddy...

I am always down to ride bikes. Let's go!

Excellent!

The first ever meeting of the NYC BF.net Crew! :-)

Not to state the obvious either but I'm not the one leading 95% of the discussions in the advocacy forum about reform and change. And obviously I'm stating an additional way that this can be further accomplished. I fail to see how much change I can make if the people who are so "vocal" here won't even try to consider it.

Man you sure are a sarcastic jerk!

Actually, us wacky martyrs ARE planning on doing some organizing!

I just thought that since you had a good idea of your own that it might be nice to see you follow up on it. I guess you can't be bothered though.

Kona,
Check the other thread. I think there's a meet in the offing.