Road Cycling - Do wheels make THAT much of a difference?

I got a bike about two seasons ago off of C/L and have ridden it quite a bit since. It's a carbon frame with Ultegra components. I have a hilly 'training loop' that's roughly 27 miles, on very rough city streets, that I do 2 or 3 times a week. I've never done an official bicycle race but I competed in two sprint tri's this year and plan to do quite a few more next year.
I have Shimano wheels on it now. I looked for a name on them (like Ultegra or something) but there isn't anything other than a Shimano decal, so I'm guess they're pretty low end. If they are low end, they are good wheels. They spin for days and have kept true over 2 years on very rough roads.. and I weigh 205lbs.
Every time I go on the group rides I see guys with the 'areo' wheels, Zipp 404's and the such. I wonder to myself, would I really notice a difference. Do $2k wheels make it THAT much easier to climb? Are they THAT much more aerodynamic? Would I increase much average speed THAT much? (which is low 18mph)
I have felt like I just need to work on my legs... not sink more money into my bike. I'm just wondering, do wheels make THAT much of a difference?

No.

I got a bike about two seasons ago off of C/L and have ridden it quite a bit since. It's a carbon frame with Ultegra components. I have a hilly 'training loop' that's roughly 27 miles, on very rough city streets, that I do 2 or 3 times a week. I've never done an official bicycle race but I competed in two sprint tri's this year and plan to do quite a few more next year.
I have Shimano wheels on it now. I looked for a name on them (like Ultegra or something) but there isn't anything other than a Shimano decal, so I'm guess they're pretty low end. If they are low end, they are good wheels. They spin for days and have kept true over 2 years on very rough roads.. and I weigh 205lbs.
Every time I go on the group rides I see guys with the 'areo' wheels, Zipp 404's and the such. I wonder to myself, would I really notice a difference. Do $2k wheels make it THAT much easier to climb? Are they THAT much more aerodynamic? Would I increase much average speed THAT much? (which is low 18mph)
I have felt like I just need to work on my legs... not sink more money into my bike. I'm just wondering, do wheels make THAT much of a difference?
That is absolutely true. But next to your frame, your wheels are the most important moving part of your bike.

Performance gains from equipment changes are miniscule compared to performance gains from more/smarter training.

I noticed a huge placebo effect when I replaced stock wheels with lighter and more aero wheels... Huge! ;-)

Not only was my bike lighter, but so was my wallet.

i honestly don't believe they make such an impact on your riding. you're basically paying $1 to shed 1-2lbs off your bike...

Just work extra harder to surpass those with all these expensive light weight equipments :thumb:

No. Aero wheels don't help you climb at all...they provide a very slight aero benefit at higher speeds (like on the flats). However, most people are going to get much more of an aero benefit from improving body position on the bike, unless you already have that dialed in. At 205 lb it would be much more helpful to lose weight and/or improve cardio if you want to improve climbing speed.

I noticed a huge placebo effect when I replaced stock wheels with lighter and more aero wheels... Huge! ;-)

Not only was my bike lighter, but so was my wallet.

Best answer yet!:thumb:

I noticed a huge placebo effect when I replaced stock wheels with lighter and more aero wheels... Huge! ;-)

Not only was my bike lighter, but so was my wallet.


+1

We always trained on 36h wheels shod with a bit wider tires, and raced on 24h/28h or 28h/32h sets. Mentally the difference was clear and with the slight improvement in acceleration we certainly worked harder, which improved our performance. When we outfitted our TT bikes with disk wheels the same improvement in our performance were found for the same reasons. Whether the performance improvement from increased effort was more or less than the improvement in equipment was greater I cannot say, but we had a noticable improvement in performance.

That said, I would not spend $2k for a wheel set unless I was in excellent condition to start with. You will definitely notice a difference in acceleration with a lighter set of wheels and measurable improvements in top speed with more aero wheels, but if you are not in top shape you are better advised to train harder and smarter.


BTW: Being full "kitted out" in lycra doesn't appreciably improve performance, but nearly everyone on a Saturday training ride will come looking as though they are a pro. Why do you think that is?

i honestly don't believe they make such an impact on your riding. you're basically paying $1 to shed 1-2lbs off your bike...

Just work extra harder to surpass those with all these expensive light weight equipments :thumb:

The thing thats important to remember is that its bot just weight your taking off, its rotational mass weight your saving.

The improvement in looks far outpaces the improvement in performance. But I was able to feel the difference when I switched to 404's in the spring winds this year. But it's still hard work to ride the bike.

For me wheels are important in the sense that because I'm a heavier rider - finally down to 210 lbs. - I need wheels that stay true at my weight. I've heard various wheels described by 170 lb. riders as bombproof that are anything but that for me. Since I don't race or have any desire to, I don't care about shaving 100 grams of weight or being aero, but staying true is critical.

Opinions from other threads on this forum suggest that low rolling resistance tires are equally if not more important than wheels. I think they're still incredibly expensive, but not nearly as much as wheels.

I purchased a wheelset that was much better than the stock set up, but probably considered low end by most and I immediately noticed that pedal resistance seemed to be about half if that makes sense. Pushing the lighter weight up hills was also noticeable. The bearings are also better in more expensive wheels offering a seemingly endless roll as well. I imagine there is a point where wheels become purely a status symbol and I am positive I will never know where that point is

Opinions from other threads on this forum suggest that low rolling resistance tires are equally if not more important than wheels. I think they're still incredibly expensive, but not nearly as much as wheels.

And the moment of inertia of the tire alone constitutes 40% of the total moment of inertia of most wheelsets (from Rol de whatever that site is).

I'm sure they help a little, but if you really just want to go faster, spend that $2000 on a personal trainer.

They don't make YOU faster, but you'd be kidding yourself if you said a lightweight set of wheels didn't spin up to speed faster. Aero wheels are only beneficial if you are in top shape and can maintain 25mph-30mph for a good amount of time. However, it's impossible to ignore the relatively instantaneous acceleration you get with a 1300g wheelset over a 2000g wheelset, even if you aren't a pro. Like bianchi10 said, it's not just mass off your bike, it's rotational mass off your wheels. Big difference there. That being said, there's no need to spend $2,000 on a fancy set of carbon fiber wheels. You can spend $500-$800 and get something in the 1300-1500g weight range that is still going to be strong enough for a 200lb rider to ride every day.

In the end, it depends on what your idea of "THAT" big of a difference is. To me, the difference in acceleration between a 2000g and 1300g wheelset is huge. And it's not placebo effect.

I seriously think a lot of people worry about what's on their bike rather than improving their cycling performance.

What if one does both, duh...:rolleyes:

That is absolutely true. But next to your frame, your wheels are the most important moving part of your bike.

Actually, your frame isn't supposed to be a moving part. You should probably get that looked at. :)

KeS

To borrow a line from a rando discussion, "If you can't do it on 32-spoke Open Pros, you probably can't do it on (the chi-chi wheel set of your choice)". Sure, lighter, more-aero wheels are fun and cool, but it still comes down to the motor.

SP
Bend, OR

It's really a cost/benefit question. Yes, light aero wheels make a difference ..... but which new wheels, compared to which old wheels to get an idea of the difference, and what is your budget, and what else can you do to improve (lose weight, train more & smarter, coaching ....), buy a trainer for winter, etc..

And what are your goals ? Getting to the coffe shop 2 seconds ahead of your friends ? Getting a medal in the National Time Trial Championship ?
So, if you have $1000 to spend, what's the best option ? Perhaps wheels are only 3rd on the list.

Opinions from other threads on this forum suggest that low rolling resistance tires are equally if not more important than wheels. I think they're still incredibly expensive, but not nearly as much as wheels.

Both add up but both aren't a huge factor ... the difference between a set of el cheapo wheels with the cheapest decent tires you can find and the most expensive wheels with the best tubulars you can find is $5000 but only a few percents in performance gain.

So the answer to all of the OP's questions is: "No."

Both add up but both aren't a huge factor ... the difference between a set of el cheapo wheels with the cheapest decent tires you can find and the most expensive wheels with the best tubulars you can find is $5000 but only a few percents in performance gain.

So the answer to all of the OP's questions is: "No."

of course in a sport where guys train to shave 100s of a second (track) in a short event or mere seconds in a long event a few % points wouldn't matter.

of course in a sport where guys train to shave 100s of a second (track) in a short event or mere seconds in a long event a few % points wouldn't matter.

In the actual cycling sport: Yes.
On the town roads for casual everyday cyclists: No.

Hell ... Don't look at me ... I've got a rear disc :D

your body is the most important component. lose bodyfat if weight is a concern.

as for the effect of aeroness, ive heard that most "aero" wheels are in fact not aero at all, theyre more for looks and sold to you because of buzz marketing. something about a rim needs to be so deep before it benefits from "aeroness," and most aero wheels arent deep enough.

that said, wheels probably can make a difference on the road (more so in a velo), but you'd need to be a high performer to notice the difference.

get them if you want though, if you think youll ride more

To give you an idea of the numbers here, OP, let me tell you this:

The difference between a $2000 wheel and a basic but good wheel is about a second per kilometer, maybe slightly more.

If you are Fabian Cancellara ... those few seconds per kilometer will after 40k ... add up to about a minute of lost time.
A minute, in the world of time trial races, could mean the difference between being first and not even being on the podium at all.

If you are Average Joe ... or even Wannabe Fred ... those few seconds per kilometer mean next to nothing at all.

I hope that cleared it up for you.

They don't make YOU faster, but you'd be kidding yourself if you said a lightweight set of wheels didn't spin up to speed faster. Aero wheels are only beneficial if you are in top shape and can maintain 25mph-30mph for a good amount of time. However, it's impossible to ignore the relatively instantaneous acceleration you get with a 1300g wheelset over a 2000g wheelset, even if you aren't a pro. Like bianchi10 said, it's not just mass off your bike, it's rotational mass off your wheels. Big difference there. That being said, there's no need to spend $2,000 on a fancy set of carbon fiber wheels. You can spend $500-$800 and get something in the 1300-1500g weight range that is still going to be strong enough for a 200lb rider to ride every day.

In the end, it depends on what your idea of "THAT" big of a difference is. To me, the difference in acceleration between a 2000g and 1300g wheelset is huge. And it's not placebo effect.

I totally concur. I went through a similar upgrade recently - got a new bike with Ksyrium Equipe wheelsets, which I think are about 300-400g lighter than my previous set. Even though the new bike itself is at least 3 lbs lighter than the old one overall, I think I made up for that difference by loading it up with 2 huge bottles during a C+ ride I went on last weekend. With that I was still able to maintain 23mph on flats solo (about 3-4mph better than what I could do on the old bike). The acceleration of the new bike is incredible. I would also give credit to the nice frame and Ultegra components, but I think the biggest contribution came from the lighter wheels.

If you think about it, I'm now rotating 400 g less mass on that 311mm radius at >250 RPM in order to travel at 20mph (someone check the math)

All this being said, I believe this must be close to the sweet spot for me. Any more money I spend on wheels will probably have marginal returns for my needs (I'm not a racer - if you are one that's a different story).

Needless to say all the other comments (including yours) about improving improving your legs are very true. However given the same legs (say already improved as much as humanly possible) the quest for the right equipment that will improve your efficiency is a very valid one. The only counter argument could be that having really light wheels might spoil you and demotivate from more stringent training.

Best placebo I ever had and the bike is easier to get up and down the stairs. I swear they accelerate faster but like I said, it's probably just the placebo effect.

(I'm 5f11, 143 pounds, I had a 2200-2300g alexrims wheelset before and went to a 1540g soul s3.0)

The only counter argument could be that having really light wheels might spoil you and demotivate from more stringent training.

Anyone who is going to train or ride hard is going to go with the same intensity regardless of wheelset. You're not going to get on the bike and say "thank goodness for these Zipps... now I can dial it up and drope the hammer at just 398 instead of 400."

they make a minute and insignificant difference in the grand spectrum of cycling, and they are one of the biggest changes you can make within the small slice that is bikeforums road cycling.

While I agree with the general consensus of the placebo affect. I think that wheels do make a difference. Weight being most important for acceleration, which is highly noticeable if you are in tune with your bicycle. I mean who wouldn't want to ride high quality rims and hubs. Some things are made with much higher standards than others. Although for the most part performance gains are measurably minimal. It just depends how much that margin matters to you.

The real question is would that money be better spent on a full body hair removal treatment?

The real question is would that money be better spent on a full body hair removal treatment?

Hmmmmm...............food for thought

i ride a giant defy 3 triple with freedom ryder 23 touring wheels. i don't have hardly any experience with nice equipment, but i am thinking that it doesn't really make much of a difference.

i ride a giant defy 3 triple with freedom ryder 23 touring wheels. i don't have hardly any experience with nice equipment, but i am thinking that it doesn't really make much of a difference.

Alrighty then, case closed.

one of my cycling advisory council members (fred on an electric bike) saw one of my race bikes kitted out with deep section carbon rims and said, "those wheels must be what, 8-10km/h faster than regular ones." i laughed, and said something to the effect that at maximal efforts, they were good for .5-1 km/h.

Alrighty then, case closed.

:lol:

ya i don't know why i felt that my response was adding anything to the conversation

Performance aside, lighter wheel is just so much more fun to climb and sprint. That can be worth a lot but I can't imagine spending 2K on a wheelset.

WOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSHHHHHHH!!!!!!! fuggoff

I would say for the average road rider, it benefits more for looks and placebo in HOPES that it will make them better at climbing, faster down the flats and beat anyone else that comes in visual sight. I can feel a minimal difference with mine. Went with a 30mm and though I do feel the benefit from it on climbing and flat ground riding, I dont know if it was worth emptying my wallet for them.

Well being someone who lives in a small valley surrounded by mountains I'd say they do make a difference. Maybe not in time but in expended energy on my climbs. Also easier to spin up as others have said which makes for a funnier ride in the rolling hills. Then there is the durability issue. My Mavic CXPs have needed spokes tightened repeatedly as well as having a few break. My Bontrager SSRs have needed hubs adjusted and truing. My Williams Systems 30s were cheap, much lighter, and have over 3000 trouble free miles on them. Well worth the price to me. Now the Zen wheels I just had built up are quite nice but maybe do not make any sense in terms of performance/price. But they have allowed me to "retire" the Rolf Vector Comps that were on my LeMond and too flexy for me. So really it's a matter of your priorities and how important certain aspects of a wheel's performance are to you.

I'm sure they help a little, but if you really just want to go faster, spend that $2000 on a personal trainer.

After spending on the personal trainer and getting faster, the personal trainer will some day tell you to spend on an aero wheelset or frameset.

I would say for the average road rider, it benefits more for looks and placebo in HOPES that it will make them better at climbing, faster down the flats and beat anyone else that comes in visual sight. I can feel a minimal difference with mine. Went with a 30mm and though I do feel the benefit from it on climbing and flat ground riding, I dont know if it was worth emptying my wallet for them.

Heres my theory, If you have aero wheels it's understood that you need to HTFU around other riders and go faster....nobody wants to see a guy with aero wheels huffing and puffing at 15mph

http://www.nerve.com/files/regulars/missinformation/160/comps/bigicon_sans.jpg

this thread.

I seriously think a lot of people worry about what's on their bike rather than improving their cycling performance.
Sure, but so what? Unless you get paid to ride, most improvements (even significant ones) are unimportant.

If it helps you enjoy your sport, there's nothing wrong spending your money where your time and priorities are. Besides, many guys with the gear have been riding a long time and are doing well to hang onto what fitness they have.

They are faster, but in an all out 40k tt its maybe 30 seconds. On a road bike even less. You will be better served learning to ride in the drops which is alot cheaper!

I think lighter wheels/aero wheels help. First, it made me train harder on my regular wheels so I wouldn't look like a total doofus on the carbon 50mm wheels. At the end of the day the bike is lighter, plus I am a little faster by virtue of having trained harder.

http://www.nerve.com/files/regulars/missinformation/160/comps/bigicon_sans.jpg

this thread.

I always wonder why people state something like "missinformation" or "incorrect" or "wrong" or the likes ... without actually adding anything to advance the subject or enlighten their peers about the reason why something is "incorrect" in their view.
Do you think anyone cares about whether or not you think this is "missinformation" if you're not giving the reason why?

I think you do.

I think you do.
Umm, not really.

With no specifics, have no idea WTF you mean.

ETA to be clear - have no idea if you are pro, con or a troll