Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - My budget light set up is utter fail :(

Tried to the cheap route and mounted this (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Max-3AAA-LED-RWB-Flashlight/13029917) to the underside of the bars using a section of inner tube and the front part of this combo (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Zefal-LED-Light-Set-5620/14264318) on it's supplied mount. I never really intended this set up to be used in traffic, but more for the MUP.

The MUP is lit up pretty nice in some parts (the section I started on today), but I know that there are stretches that won't be as well lit.

The combined output isn't even enough to erase my shadow that is created by the streetlights behind as I pass...

Though my budget is still extremely tight, I also really need to seriously upgrade the front lights. Torn between getting this (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Zefal-LED-Light-Set-5620/14264318) as a stop gap (I've got a ton of AAA's- all of my current lights use them) or just go 'all in' as it were and get a charger and some 18650 cells and a couple of lights from DX. I was considering going with lights that used AA, but those 18650 lights seem to be crazy bright on the cheap.

Main question out of all this is- when shopping for batteries, what mAh numbers should i be looking at?

Capacity-wise, the higher the better, although this generally means greater cost.

Be aware that all cell stats on DX are greatly exaggerated. Pay attention to dimensions. Many 18650s on DX are 16.5-19mm diameter and 64-68mm length. Some cells fit some devices better than others. Also, the flashlight manufacturers anticipate oversize cells and tend to make them bigger to accommodate non-conforming cells. If you put a small 18650 into a flashlight, it will rattle around and eventually break the circuit, causing the typical multi-mode flashlight to step to the next mode. Sometimes taping the cell will prevent this rattle.

Main question out of all this is- when shopping for batteries, what mAh numbers should i be looking at?You've got a pretty rambling way of asking that :)

For what sized battery? Note that mAh ratings aren't a very good way to shop for batteries.

For rechargeable AAA's, modern NiMH cells tend to range from about 700 to 1000 mAh. I suggest the eneloops or other low self discharge rate batteries, and they tend to be around 700 mAh. In practice, in my own use, I find that the low self discharge rate leads to more runtime even with the lower overall capacity -- more consistently, anyways. They also make carrying spare batteries with you easier, as you don't have to worry so much about them being dead when you do need them.

For rechargeable AA's, they tend to be around 2000 to 2800 mAh, and again, I suggest the low self discharge rate batteries, which tend to be at the low end in the capacity, around 2000 mAh.

I suggest not buying the highest mAh rated batteries. Sure, they may have more capacity (or they may not -- often the manufacturers lie) but they got that extra capacity by cutting corners elsewhere (it's not like they can ignore the laws of physics and chemistry, after all.) So the ultra high capacity batteries tend to be fragile, have high self discharge rates, tolerate abuse poorly, wear out more quickly, may be physically slightly larger than the specifications, etc.

For 18650s, the capacities don't really matter that much. Sure, you can get a battery with somewhat more capacity for twice the price that will get you a few more minutes of runtime, but you could also get two of the cheaper batteries rather than just one and keep a spare in your bag.

I'm a big fan of the 18650 lights. They don't cost much, they can put out a lot of light, and the batteries are so very convenient (you only need one for most of the lights rather than 3xAAA, and they have a really low self discharge rate.)

As for an inner tube mount -- get the DX $1.80 or so flashlight mount. Order ten of them, give them out to friends -- it rocks.

As for seeker333's comment about the batteries fitting tightly, he's right. But it's easy to fix -- a paper "sleeve" around the battery to help it fit more tightly can fix it. Leave the sleeve in the light. It's also helpful if you get lights that have springs on both the + and - ends of the battery, rather than just on the negative end. (Sometimes it's hard to know if a given light fits this bill until you have it, however.) But if you do get one that only has one spring, that's generally not a big deal, and if it's too loose, you can get some small magnets (also sold by DX) and use them as spacers to make it more tight.

Hey, dougmc, thanks for the lengthy response.

1. Haven't acquired rechargeable AAA's yet, but probably will for the tail lights if for no other reason.
2. I'm attracted to the 18650 lights for pretty much the same reasons you stated- crazy bright, not as many batteries to keep up with (the current two are both 3xAAA).
3. The lights I'll have to sort out for myself, but haven't clue when it comes to chargers. I need decent, but don't want fancy or complete rubbish, either.

1. Haven't acquired rechargeable AAA's yet, but probably will for the tail lights if for no other reason.Taillights really don't need rechargeables so badly, at least not in flash mode. A PB Superflash will last about 100 hours on two AAA's which is a long time. But if you do go rechargeable, you definitely want low self discharge rate batteries, or they'll be dead from self-discharge long before they're dead from actual use.

I've seen some 18650 lights that also include an adapter that will take 3xAAA instead of an 18650. Fine, but the 18650 has about triple the energy of the 3xAAA's ... which makes me never want to use that adapter.
But headlights ... you want rechargeables for them, considering that they have runtimes of less than 10 hours. I'm not a fan of the 3xAAA format, as it's kind of a PITA keeping them charged when your charger will only charge batteries in multiples of two. (I do have one of those charges that charges each individually, but not everybody does.)

Considering that AA's have about triple the capacity of AAA's at the same price, I prefer things that use AA's to AAA's. But most tail lights use so little power it's not a big deal -- but for headlights it is.


3. The lights I'll have to sort out for myself, but haven't clue when it comes to chargers. I need decent, but don't want fancy or complete rubbish, either.18650 chargers? I've got the DX $12 one, it works great. For AA and AAA's, I've got a La Crosse BC-700 and BC-900. Both work nicely.

Whoa, $30 for that Coleman is a rip-off, can you return it?

You might look at Shiningbeam.com's 18650 lights. They have an adjustable-focus one for $23ish: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-215/Romisen-RC-dsh-C8-II-R2/Detail

I haven't used that one, but I've had one of these: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-218/Romisen-RC-dsh-2R4-II-R5/Detail I liked it because it had pretty good runtime on High, then drifted seamlessly into Medium as the battery ran lower. Total runtime was something beyond 6 hours if I recall correctly, so it's not one of those 45-minute wonders where you have to think about when's the last time you charged it.

The beam pattern has a fairly strong center spot, so it reaches down the trail somewhat. If your MUP is twisty-curvy, that might not be as good as the adjustable-focus one where you can change the spread on-the-fly.

Whoa, $30 for that Coleman is a rip-off, can you return it?

You might look at Shiningbeam.com's 18650 lights. They have an adjustable-focus one for $23ish: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-215/Romisen-RC-dsh-C8-II-R2/Detail

I haven't used that one, but I've had one of these: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-218/Romisen-RC-dsh-2R4-II-R5/Detail I liked it because it had pretty good runtime on High, then drifted seamlessly into Medium as the battery ran lower. Total runtime was something beyond 6 hours if I recall correctly, so it's not one of those 45-minute wonders where you have to think about when's the last time you charged it.

The beam pattern has a fairly strong center spot, so it reaches down the trail somewhat. If your MUP is twisty-curvy, that might not be as good as the adjustable-focus one where you can change the spread on-the-fly.

I don't play with the 18650's at all. A friend just bought an Ultra fire light that looks just like the Romisen you linked to. She has one Ultrafire 18650 and a charger that only works pluged into the wall socket and hangs from the plug. She says the charger was $5 I'm worried she may have a dangerous battery charging problem. I was hoping she could at least put the charger in a fire proof pan or something.
I told her to only charge the battery if she is home to watch it. She is super UNtechnical. And cheap.

Any thoughts??
My only idea is to switch her over to Eneloops and a 2x AA light. I have one that is 230+ lumens on high. Nitecore something with a ring dial on the head that turns as a dimmer. Just a little off of high it will go for hours.

Almost forgot- Bailey says hi.

Whoa, $30 for that Coleman is a rip-off, can you return it?

You might look at Shiningbeam.com's 18650 lights. They have an adjustable-focus one for $23ish: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-215/Romisen-RC-dsh-C8-II-R2/Detail

I haven't used that one, but I've had one of these: http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-218/Romisen-RC-dsh-2R4-II-R5/Detail I liked it because it had pretty good runtime on High, then drifted seamlessly into Medium as the battery ran lower. Total runtime was something beyond 6 hours if I recall correctly, so it's not one of those 45-minute wonders where you have to think about when's the last time you charged it.

The beam pattern has a fairly strong center spot, so it reaches down the trail somewhat. If your MUP is twisty-curvy, that might not be as good as the adjustable-focus one where you can change the spread on-the-fly.

The Coleman was bought to be dual purpose bike/'around the house' light (what flashlight isn't, right?), and have had it for more than a year- so no taking it back.

The first link you posted? I actually had that bookmarked basoneed upon the recommendations of socalrider. Just never got around to ordering one. Nor did I know that it was still a contender, given the rate at which LEDs are getting brighter, more efficient, and cheaper as the new models continue to come out. I had been thinking about getting two of them and play with the beam patterns. However, part of me wants one of these and another, high output (claimed rating, anyway) like maybe this one (http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-97/**NEW**--P-dsh-Rocket-XM-dsh-L/Detail) from SB.*

*DX has lower prices to be sure, but I suspect I'll be happier dealing with a domestic source should any issues that warrant a return arise.

*DX has lower prices to be sure, but I suspect I'll be happier dealing with a domestic source should any issues that warrant a return arise.I've probably ordered 10 18650 lights and a number of batteries and two chargers from DX in the last few years.

One light had the switch break. It was a few years old, so I didn't try to get it replaced.
One battery failed the first time I charged it, ruining the charger it was in as it got really hot (no fire or anything like that, though there always some risk, but it's much smaller with metal cased batteries like 18650s. Still, charge all batteries on something non-flammable, no matter what charger or battery chemistry.) DX replaced the battery with no trouble (and only one cell was bad, but I got a two-pack replacement for it) but wouldn't replace the charger as it was out of warranty (it wasn't the charger that failed.) So I was out $12 there, but got an extra battery worth $4.

A few lights have required tightening up the emitters (trivial) and most have required putting some cardboard shims around the battery to keep them from shaking around, but beyond that -- they've all been fine, and all are still in service (except for the one light where the switch broke.)

Oh wait, I've broken the glass on at least two lights ... but DX sells replacements for quite cheap, so I fixed them myself. And certainly, that was my fault for dropping the lights ...

Outside of lights ... I had a R/C helicopter blade arrive broken. They sent me a replacement with no trouble. And I ordered a Sony PSP charger that had no electronics in it (? -- it looked legit, but didn't have any guts inside) ... they gave me my money back, no trouble.

In short ... I've rarely needed to deal with DX's customer support (I've bought a lot of stuff from them!), but when I have, it's been fine (except for that charger, but that wasn't a big deal.) They have never asked me to send anything back that broke -- they've just sent me replacements.

An ideal place to charge 18650s would be in your oven :) All-metal enclosure, perfect. Just don't forget they're in there when the late-night pizza cravings hit :D


Almost forgot- Bailey says hi.

Hi Bailey :)

An ideal place to charge 18650s would be in your oven :) All-metal enclosure, perfect. Just don't forget they're in there when the late-night pizza cravings hit :DWhere do you charge your cell phone? Your laptop? Same or similar battery chemistry, with the same risks.

(Hell, there's a reasonable chance your laptop has 18650 cells in it.)

These batteries have cylindrical steel cases. That's a good thing -- if something goes wrong, they're unlikely to burst and catch fire. It's not impossible, but it's a lot less likely than it is for plastic cased batteries.

It's a good idea to charge batteries (of all chemistries) on something that's not flammable. But doing it inside your oven is probably overkill.

I've probably ordered 10 18650 lights and a number of batteries and two chargers from DX in the last few years.

Is this $18.40 FANDYFIRE 501B SSC P7 3-Mode 900-Lumen White LED (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/fandyfire-501b-ssc-p7-3-mode-900-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-black-1-x-18650-57985) for real? Or what do you recommend?

Is this $18.40 FANDYFIRE 501B SSC P7 3-Mode 900-Lumen White LED (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/fandyfire-501b-ssc-p7-3-mode-900-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-black-1-x-18650-57985) for real?

Well, it is prolly a real flashlight but not really 900 lumens. Like cell capacities the lumens are overstated. Havent played with any FandyFire but have 5 or 6 UltraFires and only 1 has ever acted up. You might want to limit yourself to something in the Ultrafire 501 family (still lots to choose from). Those are of a particular type that will allow you to buy dropins of new LEDs in the future and ...well.. drop them in to upgrade the light.

There are lots of other makes and models that take drop ins (google P60 drop in), but the UF 501 and 503C are 2 I am sure of

Where do you charge your cell phone? Your laptop? Same or similar battery chemistry, with the same risks.

(Hell, there's a reasonable chance your laptop has 18650 cells in it.)

These batteries have cylindrical steel cases. That's a good thing -- if something goes wrong, they're unlikely to burst and catch fire. It's not impossible, but it's a lot less likely than it is for plastic cased batteries.

It's a good idea to charge batteries (of all chemistries) on something that's not flammable. But doing it inside your oven is probably overkill.

Well I agree, in general. But we're specifically discussing bottom-of-the-barrel stuff from DealExtreme here. PSP chargers with no electronics inside, etc :thumb: Personally, I'm using stuff I bought from more reputable suppliers, with a more established track record, but if people ARE concerned about their stuff catching fire, they could consider putting it somewhere that it wouldn't spread.

An ideal place to charge 18650s would be in your oven :) All-metal enclosure, perfect. Just don't forget they're in there when the late-night pizza cravings hit :DHi Bailey :)

:lol:

Good idea, and funny.

Where do you charge your cell phone? Your laptop? Same or similar battery chemistry, with the same risks.

(Hell, there's a reasonable chance your laptop has 18650 cells in it.)

These batteries have cylindrical steel cases. That's a good thing -- if something goes wrong, they're unlikely to burst and catch fire. It's not impossible, but it's a lot less likely than it is for plastic cased batteries.

It's a good idea to charge batteries (of all chemistries) on something that's not flammable. But doing it inside your oven is probably overkill.

I already had a lithum battery pop and outgas in my hand, in a flashlight. When new too.

the problem with using the oven for charging is that the smoke damage would be an issue.

I charge my batteries on top of a piece of 2x2 Sheetrock placed on top of the work bench in the garage. I also have a Timer I bought from Home Depot which can I set either at 2hrs or 4hrs. If they do smoke, it won't be so bad as compare to inside the house. The Sheetrock help to keep the bench from catching fire.

the problem with using the oven for charging is that the smoke damage would be an issue.

Mmmmm ........Lithium flavored Pizza !!

Well, it is prolly a real flashlight but not really 900 lumens. Like cell capacities the lumens are overstated. Havent played with any FandyFire but have 5 or 6 UltraFires and only 1 has ever acted up.What he said. It's the same emitter as the Ultrafire lights and therefore probably puts out about 400 lumens. And that's pretty bright -- other cyclists will occasionally think you're a car or motorcycle sneaking up on them :)


You might want to limit yourself to something in the Ultrafire 501 family (still lots to choose from). Those are of a particular type that will allow you to buy dropins of new LEDs in the future and ...well.. drop them in to upgrade the light.I haveconsidered this, but ... considering that the entire light here is under $20 and the LED it comes with is pretty good already, and the new LEDs that have come out since are only marginally better ... I don't really see any need to ever upgrade it (unless it breaks, I guess.) If a new emitter comes out that's worth replacing the emitter for ... I'd just buy a new flashlight, and now I have two.

In short ... I've rarely needed to deal with DX's customer support (I've bought a lot of stuff from them!), but when I have, it's been fine (except for that charger, but that wasn't a big deal.) They have never asked me to send anything back that broke -- they've just sent me replacements.

same thing here. have bought and dealt with them with positive results.

You might want to limit yourself to something in the Ultrafire 501 family (still lots to choose from). Those are of a particular type that will allow you to buy dropins of new LEDs in the future and ...well.. drop them in to upgrade the light.

There are lots of other makes and models that take drop ins (google P60 drop in), but the UF 501 and 503C are 2 I am sure of

Thanks! Based on this I just now ordered the Ultrafire 501b, batteries and charger.

http://www.amazon.com/Terralux-TLXTLF3002AABK-Lumen-LightStar300-Flashlight/dp/B004VMWAKQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1316956044&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/TwoFish-FH1-Flashlite-Holder/dp/B001CJXB5E/

i just got that setup the other day, haven't yet tested it on the bike. the light uses "regular" AA - disposable or rechargeable. all of the light bulbs in my apartment are 60W (so i can't test with anything higher), and from across the room that flashlight will cast a shadow of a light-bulb while it's on: i turn on a 60W bulb, shine that flashlight at the bulb, and see the bulb's shadow behind it.

i'm suspicious of everything on DX. not saying i'd never buy from there (i'm keeping an eye out for the MJ-856) but i'm suspicious of quality and longevity. and of course the "lumen ratings" are pure fiction in most cases, or unrealistically optimistic at best.

i don't know if the lightstar300 is really putting out 300 lumens, but it seems like it's at least a reasonable estimate. if that was on DX they'd probably claim it to be 500 lumens or more. anyway, that could give you 500-600 lumens for about $70 + mounts.

Awe, don't bring me down after my big order ($31) :( Seriously though I ordered it hoping it's half the claimed lumen rating since if it is 500 watts a light that cheap would probably get too hot and discharge the single 18650 battery pretty quickly. You can set it to low though so I'll be pleased either way.

http://www.amazon.com/Terralux-TLXTLF3002AABK-Lumen-LightStar300-Flashlight/dp/B004VMWAKQ/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1316956044&sr=1-2
http://www.amazon.com/TwoFish-FH1-Flashlite-Holder/dp/B001CJXB5E/

i just got that setup the other day, haven't yet tested it on the bike. the light uses "regular" AA - disposable or rechargeable. all of the light bulbs in my apartment are 60W (so i can't test with anything higher), and from across the room that flashlight will cast a shadow of a light-bulb while it's on: i turn on a 60W bulb, shine that flashlight at the bulb, and see the bulb's shadow behind it.

i'm suspicious of everything on DX. not saying i'd never buy from there (i'm keeping an eye out for the MJ-856) but i'm suspicious of quality and longevity. and of course the "lumen ratings" are pure fiction in most cases, or unrealistically optimistic at best.

i don't know if the lightstar300 is really putting out 300 lumens, but it seems like it's at least a reasonable estimate. if that was on DX they'd probably claim it to be 500 lumens or more. anyway, that could give you 500-600 lumens for about $70 + mounts.

They claim 3 hours on high at 300 lumens. Expect about 50 minutes or less on high. Or they doubled the lumens. Dunno.

I hope I'm wrong, I'd love to hear more after you test it.
Especially the runtime. But, if it runs long enough and is bright enough for you, it could still be a good light.

They claim 3 hours on high at 300 lumens. Expect about 50 minutes or less on high. Or they doubled the lumens. Dunno.
even if i get an MJ-856 (or some other "bicycle" light) for the bike, it's still a good light for me ;)
it can squeeze into my mini-mag holster and i just ordered another one, in orange. for the size/shape/price/output/AA batteries it's a good deal for me. that it might be a decent bicycle headlight would really just be a bonus.

i can't comment on output/runtime (and with my tendency to take short trips and charge batteries BEFORE they need it, i may not be able to comment anytime soon) but one of the reviews i found claimed that it far outlasted the claimed runtime on high (like 2x or 3x). not sure how much dimming is going on, or what type of batteries were used...? it is regulated so it could possibly run ni-mh batteries too low while sucking current from them, but i just charge my batteries before they need it.

even if i get an MJ-856 (or some other "bicycle" light) for the bike, it's still a good light for me ;)

That's all that matters.

Also the batteries are so small you could carry a handfull of batteries and go for a very long time.

If you ride in the cold you will find that the rechargeables just have a shorter life, and alkalines will just get dim as they get cold. When the batteries get warm again they work. The alkalines may be useless down close to freezing.

Don't waste your time with MC-E/P7/XP-G.

XM-L FTW SRSLY!

i tested out the lightstar300 on my way home. it's not in the same league as the really high powered 1000+ lumen stuff, but IMHO it does cross the line from "be seen" to "see". not bad at all for $35(US).

it also makes my PB blaze 2W look weak, but the blaze 2W now makes a nice front "blinky" ;)

at some point i'll probably treat myself to a magic-shine (the MJ-856 looks tempting) but the lightstar300 makes that upgrade a low priority.

Is this $18.40 FANDYFIRE 501B SSC P7 3-Mode 900-Lumen White LED (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/fandyfire-501b-ssc-p7-3-mode-900-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-black-1-x-18650-57985) for real? Or what do you recommend?

I have this flashlight. It's solid, relatively small, and insanely bright. It's certainly on par w/ the magichsine. Probably neither is near 900 lumens, but both are *much* brighter than the 200-lumen Fenix that I overpaid for a few years ago. I also got the cheap 18650's and charger. No worries so far.

This light (http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-215/**NEW**-Romisen-RC-dsh-C8-II/Detail) can take either 1x18650 or 3xAAA (among others)- will the AAA cells allow the light to run at its maximum output?

Budgetary constraints dictate baby steps in the upgrade process. The plan is to order the Rominsen ASAP (plus a mount TBD), then acquire a charger and some 18650 cells from DX, and when those arrive, probably order the above mentioned Tandyfire P7 (http://www.dealextreme.com/p/fandyfire-501b-ssc-p7-3-mode-900-lumen-white-led-flashlight-with-strap-black-1-x-18650-57985) (and another mount TBD).

This light (http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-215/**NEW**-Romisen-RC-dsh-C8-II/Detail) can take either 1x18650 or 3xAAA (among others)- will the AAA cells allow the light to run at its maximum output?Yes, but not for long.

AAA NiMH cells have capacities around 700 mAh to 1000 mAh. Three of them will give you very close to the same voltage as a single 18650, but the 18650 will have a capacity around 2500 mAh. So where an 18650 could give you about two hours on high at 200 lumens -- AAAs would give you less than an hour.

Go ahead and spend the extra $15-$20 or so to get a pair of 18650 cells and a charger from DX ... it'll be well worth it.