Classic & Vintage - The Cannibals' bike

http://www.cyclezine.net/2011/09/21/trip-to-belgium-part-4-eddy-merckx-drillium/
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/6148923443_1114bd196f_b.jpg

This turned up on the intertubes. Regardless that this is a very nice bike, I have some doubts as to wether this is bike is truly ridden by Merckx.
a) The frame looks too small for eddy's large frame, especially judging by the HT. Compare this bike for instance with the hour record bike.
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Benelux/Merckx/Hour_pg-1.pdf
b) The bike shop sticker looks like it came off your local friendly LBS, not something to be found at a pro level bike. Maybe a later addition?

If the owner is on the forum here I off course would be very interested in the provenance of this bike. I don't want to hurt anyones feelings, but some things struck me as odd.

I wouldn't compare the headtube length to the hour record bike, given that the higher BB of a track frame generally shifts the top tube higher up, which corresponds with an increase in headtube length.

That said, some of the photos of Merckx on his machines do show him on frames of similar size, though a close look does reveal occasional size and geometry changes (compare the headtube and fork blades of the bike in the first photo to the one in the first B&W shot - third photo down):

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2J8uCR3HboE/TRnRSj8V0WI/AAAAAAAADds/drsahCEfJNQ/s1600/Ciclismo+-+Campioni+Eddy+Merckx.jpg

http://www.primera-sports.com/cms/site/images/merckx1.jpg

(Frame is a bit larger than the ones in the two preceding photos - also note fork rake)
http://lakeside-bikes.com/merchant/240/images/large/EddyMerckx.jpg

(Tall headtube on this one - maybe the same bike as the previous photo?)
http://www.letour.fr/2009/PNC/COURSE/img/histoire_merckx_01.jpg

http://www.vintagevelos.com/15-93-thickbox/molteni-wool-cycling-jersey.jpg

The subject bike does seem a bit small, at any rate, but I wouldn't necessarily write it off. Granted, I'd be more willing to suppose that this is one of the Molteni team bikes, if any team provenance exists - but that's just an assumption.

-Kurt

Eddy changed sizes and geometries with some frequency - especially after his track crash in Blois, after which his back gave him fits.
That said, I do think some skepticism is in order. The claim is that Eddy rode the bike during a year he wore the world champions jersey - which would have to be 1972, given the decaling. But I've only seen those extra horizontal decals on pics of Eddy from 1971. Also, by 1972 the clamp-on cable giude was gone and replaced by a braze-on version - as per the photo Kurt posted of Eddy riding in the World Champions jersey above. That makes the bike a little more plausible for 1971 - but I can't recall seeing the clamp-on cable guide on any of Eddy's Molteni bikes, though it can be seen on his Faema ones. I'll have to check some more photos from '71. I'm also skeptical of the crank - which appears to be 170mm. I would have bet Eddy would have used longer crank arms.
As Kurt suggests, maybe it is an authentic Molteni team bike. Or maybe it is indeed Eddy's - I simply agree with Kurt that there are some red flags.

Without some verified means of proving the bicycle to be one that Merckx rode, it isn't. That is the premise I go on. Sure, you might believe what you are told, but will the next person in line. I ran up against this one time with a personal bicycle owned by Kurt Harnett. One of Kurts friends sold me the bike but when I sought to verify the pedigree, no proof was forthcoming.

Exercise caution here.

Exercise caution here.

Not sure of the need for "caution," as the bike does not appear to be for sale.

why just drill halfway? to save wheigh but keep it stong? if that is the cas why wouldn't a professional mechanic drill from the back?

also did Eddy like his brakes setup in this dangerous fashion?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6148923191_cf3b4b60c3_b.jpg

I realize this bike is likely tospend way more time on the hook then on the road but atleast build it correctly

Eddy changed sizes and geometries with some frequency - especially after his track crash in Blois, after which his back gave him fits.
That said, I do think some skepticism is in order. The claim is that Eddy rode the bike during a year he wore the world champions jersey - which would have to be 1972, given the decaling. But I've only seen those extra horizontal decals on pics of Eddy from 1971. Also, by 1972 the clamp-on cable giude was gone and replaced by a braze-on version - as per the photo Kurt posted of Eddy riding in the World Champions jersey above. That makes the bike a little more plausible for 1971 - but I can't recall seeing the clamp-on cable guide on any of Eddy's Molteni bikes, though it can be seen on his Faema ones. I'll have to check some more photos from '71. I'm also skeptical of the crank - which appears to be 170mm. I would have bet Eddy would have used longer crank arms.
As Kurt suggests, maybe it is an authentic Molteni team bike. Or maybe it is indeed Eddy's - I simply agree with Kurt that there are some red flags.

Thanks for the insights. As you've said, too many red flags.

why just drill halfway? to save wheigh but keep it stong? if that is the cas why wouldn't a professional mechanic drill from the back?

also did Eddy like his brakes setup in this dangerous fashion?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6180/6148923191_cf3b4b60c3_b.jpg

I realize this bike is likely tospend way more time on the hook then on the road but atleast build it correctly

I have seen pics of Eddy on bikes with calipers done this way. I wonder if it wasn't done to the reverse surfaces because that would affect the structural integrity - it would certainly not have been as intimidating to Eddy's opponents.

I suppose this guy can claim whatever he wants to concerning the bike, as long as he isn't trying to sell it.

I have seen pics of Eddy on bikes with calipers done this way. I wonder if it wasn't done to the reverse surfaces because that would affect the structural integrity - it would certainly not have been as intimidating to Eddy's opponents.

It's still quite minimal compared to other instances of drillium, such as done by esteemed member drillium dude :) check out the pics of the calipers for that old school weight weenie graftek build!

I have seen pics of Eddy on bikes with calipers done this way. I wonder if it wasn't done to the reverse surfaces because that would affect the structural integrity - it would certainly not have been as intimidating to Eddy's opponents.

Yeah but the front brake pads are on backwards. That's what's dangerous.

Without proper documentation, such as a signed affidavit from Eddy Merckx, this is just a orange bike with Eddy Merckx decals.

Yeah but the front brake pads are on backwards. That's what's dangerous.

Details. What do you need to stop for when you're Merckx.

Eddy changed sizes and geometries with some frequency - especially after his track crash in Blois, after which his back gave him fits.


True that. He kept something like 35 bikes on hand, with 15 or so ready for immediate use at any given time. There were subtle differences between just about all of them for exactly the reason Picchio says - Eddy's back was a source of chronic pain after the 1969 Blois crash. (It was a derny race on the track, BTW, and his derny driver was killed.) Largely because of the crash and resultant back issues, Eddy was a fanatic about positioning and measurements, to the point where, more than once, he had a mechanic lean out of the team car to make tiny adjustments to his saddle while Eddy kept pedaling.

Don't try that at home, kids - he was a trained professional.

The sticker on the frame looks like it says Kessels, a Belgian who built some of the early Merckx frames.

he had a mechanic lean out of the team car to make tiny adjustments to his saddle while Eddy kept pedaling.

Seriously?

Seriously?

I believe an on-the-fly saddle adjustment is shown in A Sunday in Hell. I do remember that he borrowed one of the other team's offset 10mm box wrenches early on in the film.

Granted, the two-bolt Nuovo Record post lends itself to this sort of adjustment; same for Thompsons.

-Kurt

Yeah but the front brake pads are on backwards. That's what's dangerous.

Ha! Didn't notice that. Can't blame that on Eddy! I'm really suspect of this guy's claims now. heh...

I have a Kessels Eddy Merckx that is almost exactly the same except for a Braze On BB cable guide.

The sticker on the frame looks like it says Kessels, a Belgian who built some of the early Merckx frames.

That's what I thought. Interestingly, the 531 decal means butted main tubes only.

Kessels was licensed to badge them as Merckx's, doesn't mean he rode the bike.

Yeah but the front brake pads are on backwards. That's what's dangerous.

Yeah, I noticed that, too. Bianchigirl is a quick spotter of that mistake.

That's what I thought. Interestingly, the 531 decal means butted main tubes only.

Kessels was licensed to badge them as Merckx's, doesn't mean he rode the bike.

Eddy definitely rode Kessels frames - but that doesn't mean he rode this one, as you point out. A number of "issues," and it wouldn't be a difficult bike to fake. It could even be a Kessels/Merckx Eddy gave to a sponsor or something - next thing you know, it was a bike he rode as world champion in '72 (which I'm quite sure is not the case - so that part of the story is dead wrong).

Incidentally - the crankarm clearly has a date code, making it post-'72 and another red flag.

Seriously?

Yup. If he wasn't adjusting, he was measuring. He was pretty obsessive about such things.

Yup. If he wasn't adjusting, he was measuring. He was pretty obsessive about such things.

There's a scene somewhere where Eddy adjusts his saddle during a race - maybe at the beginning of Course en Tete during the '73 Worlds? Can't recall - anyway, he's yanking on the saddle like mad - makes you wonder how he could do that and not steer himself into the weeds.

I know Kessels build frames for the EM brand, but not the things he'd ride himself - (internet) wisdom holds that honour was first bestowed on Colnago and then on De Rosa. BTW, these nuovo record posts are a pain in the posterior bits to adjust on the workbench, let alone while riding in a pro race!

I know Kessels build frames for the EM brand, but not the things he'd ride himself - (internet) wisdom holds that honour was first bestowed on Colnago and then on De Rosa. BTW, these nuovo record posts are a pain in the posterior bits to adjust on the workbench, let alone while riding in a pro race!

This is not correct: Kessels without doubt built quite a few of Eddy's actual race frames - as did Pela, Masi, Colnago, Derosa ...

This is not correct: Kessels without doubt built quite a few of Eddy's actual race frames - as did Pela, Masi, Colnago, Derosa ...

I stand corrected,

'On the subject of Colnago and Merckx, there's an interesting interview with Ernesto Colnago here: http://tinyurl.com/2kmqrf

He clearly says that he built his first bike for Eddy in October of 1970, which would agree with Eddy's claim that he started using Colnagos during the 1971 season. This would also agree with Brett Horton's list below:

"The following sets forth information, written in Eddy's handwriting on April 7, 2003, that I obtained during my visit to his home in Meise earlier this year." -- Brett Horton

1965 - Superia (stock bike)
1966 - Peugeot (stock bike)
1967 - Peugeot (stock bike) and Masi
1968 - Masi
1969 - Marcel Van der Este (Belgian builder)
1970 - Pella (or Pello) Torino, Italy
1971 - Colnago and Kessels
1972 - Colnago and Kessels
1973 - Colnago and Kessels
1974 - DeRosa and Kessels
1975 - DeRosa and Kessels
1976 - DeRosa and Kessels
1977 - DeRosa

It would seem that Colnago and DeRosa built the day-race, time-trial and track bikes, and Kessels the stage-race bikes. The famous hour-record bike was definitely a Colnago, the 1974 World championship bike was definitely a DeRosa, and the 1973 Giro D'Italia bike was definitely a Kessels.
(einde citaat)

Voorts is het eenvoudig op foto's uit te maken of het bij de 'dubbele' jaren om een De Rosa of Colnago, dan wel Kessels ging, vermits de De Rosa's en Colnago's altijd een 'Columbus' frame hadden, terwijl Kessels
normaal 'Reynolds' buizen gebruikte - zie ook deze foto van het seizoen na zijn laatste wereldtitel (Reynolds-sticker duidelijk zichtbaar op zadelbuis en vork, dus een Kessels-frame). Duidelijke foto's van de wereldtitelraces kunnen dus uitsluitsel brengen ...

(*)In tegenstelling tot bijvoorbeeld Van Looy, Maertens en vele anderen waren Eddy's frames na zijn Peugeot-periode ook nooit 'vervalst', want ze droegen altijd enkel zijn naam en niet die van het eigenlijke (of officiële)fietsmerk.

Jos

Brett's list has to be considered as extremely helpful, but not necessarily definitive. For example, I'm near certain Eddy rode on some De Rosa frames prior to '74. I don't think the division between the use of the Italian frames for the one-day races and the Kessels frames for the stage races was a strict one, either. In "A Sunday in Hell," for example, Reynolds 531 decals are clearly visible on the frames being prepped for Eddy early in the film, and I would bet those were Kessels bikes.
There's no doubt in my mind that Eddy started using Colnagos in '71, BTW - there are photos of Eddy from '71 on bikes that are almost without question Colnagos.

There's a scene somewhere where Eddy adjusts his saddle during a race - maybe at the beginning of Course en Tete during the '73 Worlds? Can't recall - anyway, he's yanking on the saddle like mad - makes you wonder how he could do that and not steer himself into the weeds.

Yes, he whipped out a Campagnolo 5 mm "pregnant" wrench and adjusted his Brooks saddle height. He was raising it in that scene, I think at a summit of a climb. I saw the movie in 1975 at a showing on the 20th Century Fox movie lot near Century City in Los Angeles. A local club got a copy of the film and it was almost mayhem, a thousand or more showed up for a screening where the theater seated 400. I did not hear such vocal audience reaction to a film until I saw Star Wars a few years later.

Yes, he whipped out a Campagnolo 5 mm "pregnant" wrench and adjusted his Brooks saddle height. He was raising it in that scene, I think at a summit of a climb. I saw the movie in 1975 at a showing on the 20th Century Fox movie lot near Century City in Los Angeles. A local club got a copy of the film and it was almost mayhem, a thousand or more showed up for a screening where the theater seated 400. I did not hear such vocal audience reaction to a film until I saw Star Wars a few years later.

Movie audiences are always vocal whenever they see someone using "The Force ... "

Brett's list has to be considered as extremely helpful, but not necessarily definitive. For example, I'm near certain Eddy rode on some De Rosa frames prior to '74. I don't think the division between the use of the Italian frames for the one-day races and the Kessels frames for the stage races was a strict one, either. In "A Sunday in Hell," for example, Reynolds 531 decals are clearly visible on the frames being prepped for Eddy early in the film, and I would bet those were Kessels bikes.
There's no doubt in my mind that Eddy started using Colnagos in '71, BTW - there are photos of Eddy from '71 on bikes that are almost unmistakably Colnagos.

I too think the cited use list is a bit too definite. But it does show the trends. The "situation" regarding Windsor transfers on the hour bike makes me wonder about the 1973 season and Colnago use.

Movie audiences are always vocal whenever they see someone using "The Force ... "

O god, I have visions of the Molteni team asking "what is thy bidding my master?"

I too think the cited use list is a bit too definite. But it does show the trends. The "situation" regarding Windsor transfers on the hour bike makes me wonder about the 1973 season and Colnago use.

I do think Eddy rode Colnagos in '73. That makes me a little skeptical that the Merckx/Colnago relationship was severed precisely because of the '72 Worlds. OTOH, Eddy would ride bikes in different seasons, so it's not a slam dunk either way. I do think Eddy rode some De Rosas in '73 - in fact, I think he may have had a De Rosa frame or two earlier than that. You're right about the trends, of course - problem is that so many people on the intrawebs don't grasp the whole "grain of salt" thing and will wave that list like it's a photo of the second shooter on the grassy knoll.

O god, I have visions of the Molteni team asking "what is thy bidding my master?"

Bet that's not far from how it actually went down...

Bet that's not far from how it actually went down...

I certainly wouldn't want to fail him for the last time.

I do think Eddy rode Colnagos in '73. That makes me a little skeptical that the Merckx/Colnago relationship was severed precisely because of the '72 Worlds. OTOH, Eddy would ride bikes in different seasons, so it's not a slam dunk either way. I do think Eddy rode some De Rosas in '73 - in fact, I think he may have had a De Rosa frame or two earlier than that. You're right about the trends, of course - problem is that so many people on the intrawebs don't grasp the whole "grain of salt" thing and will wave that list like it's a photo of the second shooter on the grassy knoll.

That's very interesting, Picchio - and you reminded me of a photo that I dug up when I was searching for the images in my first post:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/413267424_08831654b3.jpg

What would you conclude from that photo, given your expertise? It appears to be a Colnago, but that's all I can determine from the photo (other than the fact that it doesn't have a blue downtube band, but my knowledge does not extend that far).

-Kurt

That's very interesting, Picchio - and you reminded me of a photo that I dug up when I was searching for the images in my first post:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/413267424_08831654b3.jpg

What would you conclude from that photo, given your expertise? It appears to be a Colnago, but that's all I can determine from the photo (other than the fact that it doesn't have a blue downtube band, but my knowledge does not extend that far).

-Kurt

It's from '72, obviously - or very late '71. The relatively crude, vertical clovers in the lugs definitely suggest Colnago. It looks like it has the right crown - usually, there's a simple, round hole in each point on the crown - it's a little hard to make out the exact shape from that pic. It really doesn't look like a circle - a tiny clover, maybe? I'd love a better shot of what's on top of the crown. '72 Colnagos usually have the expected clover - doesn't look like that bike does. Of course, bikes made for Eddy and with his name on the decals would be expected to deviate from the standard production frames. The blue panels seem to come and go - even within the same year. Sometimes, even in the same race, if some of the photos of Eddy's last Milan-San Remo victory are to be believed. From what I've seen, the '71 bikes - the ones that tend to have the extra horizontal decals above the diamond - tend to have less of the blue paneling.

Some of Eddy's race frames had a spade panto - that's a tough one to decipher!

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr314/jimr2527/eddy.jpg

Eddy Munster?

Sorry, thought this was the "Cannibas" bike thread. That thread must be over in the 420

http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=51432

wait what? The Cannabis bike?

It's from '72, obviously - or very late '71. The relatively crude, vertical clovers in the lugs definitely suggest Colnago. It looks like it has the right crown - usually, there's a simple, round hole in each point on the crown - it's a little hard to make out the exact shape from that pic. It really doesn't look like a circle - a tiny clover, maybe? I'd love a better shot of what's on top of the crown. '72 Colnagos usually have the expected clover - doesn't look like that bike does. Of course, bikes made for Eddy and with his name on the decals would be expected to deviate from the standard production frames. The blue panels seem to come and go - even within the same year. Sometimes, even in the same race, if some of the photos of Eddy's last Milan-San Remo victory are to be believed. From what I've seen, the '71 bikes - the ones that tend to have the extra horizontal decals above the diamond - tend to have less of the blue paneling.

Some of Eddy's race frames had a spade panto - that's a tough one to decipher!

Interesting. I'm familiar with the round divots that are supposed to be in early Colnago frames; the unknown frame that Joe Englert sold to me long ago had the same treatment; a marginal period copy of the real thing with a completely different crown:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_6.jpg

I'm almost certain that Eddy's bike has a clover in that spot, and I think there's one on the top of the crown. I can't make out whether there is a truncated circular design around it, or whether it says "COLNAGO" on it as with the production bikes. Might be a very lightly modified Super crown?

Spade panto? Was he testing alternate builders?

-Kurt

Interesting. I'm familiar with the round divots that are supposed to be in early Colnago frames; the unknown frame that Joe Englert sold to me long ago had the same treatment; a marginal period copy of the real thing with a completely different crown:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/unkframe_6.jpg

I'm almost certain that Eddy's bike has a clover in that spot, and I think there's one on the top of the crown. I can't make out whether there is a truncated circular design around it, or whether it says "COLNAGO" on it as with the production bikes. Might be a very lightly modified Super crown?

Spade panto? Was he testing alternate builders?

-Kurt

I think the spade panto is one of the regular builders, just a different touch. Maybe Colnago was promoting Colner heavily at that point.

I agree that it looks like a clover on the points. The top of the crown I'm having a harder time making out - production frames would have had a fairly fat clover at that point, and would not have said "Colnago" - that would not have appeared until circa 1976.
The round divots are definitely there on early Supers - my '71 had them. Also, a small divot on the bottom tang of the seatlug - that's one of the things to look for on '71's (and possibly even earlier frames as well). I've seen pics of Eddy's bikes that definitely have the seatlug tang divot. Of course, other builders used divots as well - including on some of Eddy's Faema frames. The fork on the bike in the photo, beyond the clovers, also looks like it has the right semi-slope and crown shape to be a Colnago.