Classic & Vintage - Tell me more about.... old cycling shoes/nail in cleats?

Drunk ebaying last week resulted in a delivery today that included a set of old cycling shoes. The measurements the seller provided made me think they would fit my size 44 foot and I'm happy to find they do.

The part that has always confused me is how the cleat works with a pedal? Do I hook the first ridge on the pedal cage and then snug down the strap?

What about removal of the cleats? As the leather sole on these haven't cracked, would it be out of the question to have a cobbler put a rubber sole on, for both added functionality and protection? I'm thinking maybe a red Vibram gum sole like an old set of dirty bucs.

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/5678/p1020133m.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/p1020133m.jpg/)

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3599/p1020134kz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/p1020134kz.jpg/)

Rubber soles? Very nearly a good name for an album. Yes, groove in cleat goes on rear plate of pedal, then toe strap is tightened. As far as removing the cleats, you'll have to have your cobbler, or do it yourself, pry them off. Thing is, when they were applied, the nails were typically driven into the leather sole and bent over inside the shoe so they wouldn't stick into your feet, and also to secure the nails/cleat to the shoe. Shouldn't be too difficult to get under them with a wide prying device and peel them off. You going to replace them after having a rubber sole attached, or just use them without cleats? If you do use them without cleats you'll lose the advantages of cycling with cleats, but make them a whole lot easier to walk in. Old leather cycling shoes weren't meant for walking in though. Good score. Nice shoes. Detto Pietro? What were you drinking? Chianti?

they actually used to, and still do, nail the heels on to shoes. I have seen shoes like that but thankfully my first shoes had regular screws with anchors. I think I had to drill them for the look cleats though

the back side of the pedal should fit into the cleat slot before tightening the toe strap.

... Detto Pietro? ...

I couldn't find any id anywhere in the shoe. I was kinda hoping someone here might recognise them.

The nice thing is that they were shipping in this Lefuma bag along with a Cyclo chain tool and a nearly full tube of Phil's grease with the original price tag of $1.25.

All in all, I think that I could have wasted $75 in worse ways.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8425/p1020135b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/p1020135b.jpg/)

Gawd . . . those remind me of my old shoes from my 1970s Cat IV racing days! Mine were Adidas (your's aren't) but were constructed the same way with all-leather uppers and soles. I also had the TA long cleats like yours.

Cleats were positioned to suit the rider's anatomy. There is some possibility that using someone else's cleat positioning may lead to joint problems. I recall that some riders liked to toe in their feet for some reason or the other - and this was bound to lead to problems in the long run. The way I used to align my cleats was to use the shoes without them for a few weeks. An impression line would form on the sole that told me how my foot naturally lined up with the pedal. I would then align the groove in the cleat to the line on the shoe.

-Gary

Oh, you kids.

Cleats were positioned to suit the rider's anatomy. There is some possibility that using someone else's cleat positioning may lead to joint problems. I recall that some riders liked to toe in their feet for some reason or the other - and this was bound to lead to problems in the long run. The way I used to align my cleats was to use the shoes without them for a few weeks. An impression line would form on the sole that told me how my foot naturally lined up with the pedal. I would then align the groove in the cleat to the line on the shoe.

-Gary

I positioned mine the same way as you did Gary, which was (apparently) contrary to the "conventional wisdom" of the day that held that the toes should be pointed slightly in. The reasoning was that if the toes were pointed slightly in then the knees would also point in which supposedly resulted in a tighter, "knees-to-the-bar" aerodynamic position. I don't know how many racers who did this suffered knee problems years later.

Those look like Detto Pietro shoes. If they have a metal shank ypu might not be able to resole them but a cobler may be able to add on a leather (or rubber sole). I dont think nailed cleats would work too well with a rubber sole. I recently bought a NIB pair of Duegi shoes on the Bay for $30.

I'm pretty sure those are Detto Pietro shoes. I had a pair. It was scary to be strapped in so I always kept at least one strap loose.

I agree that you won't be able to nail anything to a rubber sole. If you want a rubber sole, you want another shoe.

WOw those shoes are well but well used. :) Still remember the detto, brancale and the Adidas EM I used back in the day :)

Yes they look like detto but I dont think so, It can anything even a Chilean brand from back in the day was just like that one, "stambuk".

Well the 1st trick back in the day was put the cleats in the right position, then u had tables for positioning and stuff, when I got my brancale was nice to be able to dial the cleat with 2 screws at will, the same with the last incarnation of Adidas.

Good luck with the shoes, hope your knees like the position of the cleats.

:)

The way I used to align my cleats was to use the shoes without them for a few weeks. An impression line would form on the sole that told me how my foot naturally lined up with the pedal. I would then align the groove in the cleat to the line on the shoe.

Yup, this is how I remember doing it too. A cobbler did the nailing for me because of the way the nails needed to be folded over (needed to use the special shoe tool - a "last" I think it's called?) I have an NOS pair that looks like they're probably exactly the same as the OP's shoes; mine are Detto Pietro.

Yup, this is how I remember doing it too. A cobbler did the nailing for me because of the way the nails needed to be folded over (needed to use the special shoe tool - a "last" I think it's called?) I have an NOS pair that looks like they're probably exactly the same as the OP's shoes; mine are Detto Pietro.

It is indeed a last, Azorch, but typically the last is the wooden form around which a shoe is formed, but also the iron anvils they use. and yeah, you need one for nailing them suckers on. I still use my Dettos every time I ride, and have two NOS pairs in reserve, one a fleece-lined pair without perforations, for cold weather riding :) I get some funny looks but ...I don't need no stinkin' SPD or whatever you call it.

Good tip though to re-do new cleats to your own wants and needs Dylansbob. Important. Instead of rubber you might consider having your cobbler apply a new layer of heavy leather on the soles, complete with a small heel piece, for wear, and a couple of leather pieces in place for "soft" cleats. It looks like yours could use a little restoration at the cobbler's. I'm going to do that to one pair of mine, if I ever get around to it. Lemme know if you need another pair of those TA aluminum cleats Dylansbob. I have some. Cool shoes.

Check out this website I just found. I had no idea. I wondered if they still sold shoes ? Not Dettos apparently.
http://www.dettopietro.com/dp.php?language=inglese

Yep, those look just like the Detto Pietro's I used to have. Same cleats as well, TA Jacques Anquetiel (sp?). I followed the only advice I had heard at the time and rode them without cleats a couple of times to leave an impression on the soles, then had a cobbler nail them on, using a last (steel anvil IIRC). Only time I ever fell over was from these, and tucking the end of the toe straps in the buckles... I quickly found out why you don't do that :) Luckily there was a utility or stoplight pole in reach so I didn't go all the way over.

What were you drinking? Chianti?

"A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti."

I also entered the nail business recently. After my first ride, and a bit of walking around, I noticed the cleats were loose and half of the nails had gone (guess that accounts for some of the heavy cursing that emerged behind my back during the ride!). No denying in it, I'm not just a poor cobbler, I'm a living insult to the noble art of cobbling, cobblerism whatever it's called... So I took my drill and went all mid-eighties over these shoes like a madman. Woe,bloodshed. Sucker defended himself with metal plates! But I'm much happier now:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6187733541_a28a32d25b_z.jpg

Check the great speedplay link posted in this thread by big chainring:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/744422-Nice-shoes-but-how-to-wear-them/page2?

Dylansbob; check out this interesting link posted by big chainring and the TA "turismo" leather cleats. I am going to try either something like these, I can make them myself, or, another idea: if you want to make those old shoes more walking-friendly, you might consider this. Wear these without the cleats for a while to get an impression in the leather sole, then have your cobbler apply a thin and somewhat hard layer of rubber, 1/8 thick, but apply it in two pieces, leaving a 1/8- 5/32 inch space between the front and rear piece where the pedal cage would go. You could effectively have a "cleat" slot but still be able to walk in these shoes. Could be done in 9/10 ounce sole leather too, which wouldn't last as long if you walked in them much. Keep in mind of course that old leather cycling shoes were not designed for walking. They built the soles stiff so as to maximize force applied and minimize flexing.

I remember helping my younger brother nail cleats on to his real nice Duegis back in the early 80's. IIRC, the ball of the foot is supposed to line up with the pedal axle and the cleat's first and ususally only slot is the one to use,......although maybe some had used the back of the cleat to hook on as it maybe afforded some float?? We were always afraid that our nail job will eventually pull out, but they never did. It's good they didn't as we didn't know that cobblers would have typically bent the nail tips of the nails to a hook using a cobbler's steel "anvil", which would have made them close to impossible to pull out.

Chombi

If the leather sole is still intact I wouldn't bother resoling. You don't want any tread on the sole or it will make it difficult to get your shoe into the clip. Nor do you want to make the shoe any thicker, or the clip will be putting pressure on the top of your foot -- if it fits at all.

Detto Pietro? Or Duegi 101s? Do they have a relatively thick wooden sole? If so, they are pretty rare and reasonably valuable. Expensive when new...I paid around $300 back in the early '80s for my pair, and I still have them. They're on a shelf with a Cinelli hairnet.

You're probably right...Dettos. The Duegis have a large logo on each shoe.

I thought we used short nails that didn't need to be bent inside...but that's so long ago, I can't remember. :)

Lee

Detto Pietro? Or Duegi 101s? Do they have a relatively thick wooden sole? If so, they are pretty rare and reasonably valuable. Expensive when new...I paid around $300 back in the early '80s for my pair, and I still have them. They're on a shelf with a Cinelli hairnet.

You're probably right...Dettos. The Duegis have a large logo on each shoe.

I thought we used short nails that didn't need to be bent inside...but that's so long ago, I can't remember. :)

Lee
IIRC, Dettos were pretty cheap....Duegis were expensive.
I remember seeing piles of Dettos with their blue and white DP logos at the local bike shop being sold like peanuts back in the 80's. Whole bins full of them mixed in with also cheap black canvas Bata bikers tied together by the shoe laces. The Duegis were in safe in the shelves when they did have them in stock, next to the Sidis.
I never could afford Deugis or Sidis back then, so I went with mid priced, black mesh Diadoras instead.

Chombi

The Duegis were well worth the extra money, IMHO. First, they were glove soft...some of the nicest shoes I have ever bought. :)

And that wooden sole made the shoe so much stiffer than the standard shoes of the time.

Lee