General Cycling Discussion - Advice on Carbon Vs Aluminum

First off I would like to thank all in advance for any advice you can give and apologize if this is a repeat thread.

I just recently moved to Jackson, MS area and went to my local bike shop to test out some bikes to get fitted and get a idea of what I like/dislike.

Unfortunately I was only able to test a Aluminum Trek and a Carbon Felt Z series I believe though both great bikes. The Trek was 2.1 Apex I believe not 100% sure on that (H2) I liked the ridding position of the bike, but didn't feel at good as the Felt did. I didn't like the way it shifted compared to the Felt.

The Felt had a good feel to it when I rode it though it had a higher stance which I did not like compared to the lower stance of the Trek.

I just sold a motorcycle and have about a 2,500 limit to what I could spend and want something I will be able to enjoy for awhile.

My question is would it be better to get a higher end Aluminum frame in this price range or a carbon framed bike. Are the ridding positions about comparative between brands, like will the Felt F series have about the same ridding position as the Trek I rode. I would like to train up to be able to do a Triathlon some time in the next year or so would it be better to jut get a Tri bike? Any advice on brands I should try or on the Felt F series would be great. Thanks again.

Ok Zeerith!

There are a few questions that I'd like to ask before I could attempt to assist you.

What do you actually need a bike for right now, at this very moment?

What surface or surfaces will you be primarily riding on?

How soon will you expect to be in physical condition to do triathlons?

Will you be riding hills at all?

- Slim :)

Currently I will be using it for road riding, I run regularly and swim a lot during the summer though have never had a lot of experience on a bike. My goal is some time next summer or closer to the fall after I had gotten a good bit of riding in.

The area I will be ridding in is mostly flat though if I get a chance I would love to ride hills etc. I expect mostly will be pretty flat with not much variation in elevation change.

So at this moment I want to use it to road ride as not only a hobby, but also to get some fitness/experience in on the road.

I'm fairly new at this myself, but what I have learned simply due to the roads I ride are either going up or down & not in the best condition. I could bought any bike I wanted but i wasn't sure I would even like cycling enough to stick with it. So 1st went to wall mart & those bikes were way too heavy & so inexpensive I felt if anything would keep me off the road it would be a cheap bike. So I mozy on down to the LBS and bought a Giant Defy aluminum frame for 800 something after tax. Now this is where the difference is as I understand it Aluminum is great if you live in a relatively flat area with decent road quality, but I have neither. So I just ponied up for a Giant TCR Advanced Dura Ace Carbon Bike, it's 6lbs lighter which will help in climbing and Carbon is supposed to absorb much more of the road shock that comes with gas tax dollars going for beurocrats pensions instead of maintaining the roads like it's supposed to. some of these problems I have learned to solve by changing tire size & inflation right here in th Bike Forums. But God I can't wait for that new bike, it can't get here soon enough. That's all I know, I hope it helped.

Thanks sgt. It did clear up a few questions and a main worry that the rough cracked roads will be too much for a carbon frame. Another problem is I have the money now due to selling a motorcycle I had. So it's either get a cheaper bike and pray I love it or go ahead and get a nice one since It will take a longer time to save up for a chanc that I have now. I will be saving the rest for a rainy day.

Well let me clear the last post up some, I want something that will work for me well with out any need for near future replacements. I don't want to have to worry about near future replacements due to
Cheaply made/not something that will make me happy in the long run. Since I have the extra money I would rather get something that I will enjoy for awhile than spend X amount and want to replace it in a year.

Alright Zeerith!

I believe that you should get an aluminum bike for your first Triathlon. The Felt F 75 seems like a really great bike with a 5 105 groupset. I also like the Jamis Comet and the GT-GTR SRS 2, but those are a little more expensive than the Felt F 75, probably due to the Ultegra components added. Of course, any of these bikes will set you back financially, but that's a minor sacrifice compared to the exhaustive conditioning schedule that lies ahead for you. Aluminum is more forgiving than carbon and if any mishap should occur in either training or during the competition, your aluminum frame stands a better chance of survival. Besides, the fatigue life of aluminum is greater than that of carbon.

At any rate, that would be my advice...

Good Luck! :thumb:

- Slim :)

PS.

Get loads of Triathlon info at your public library. Get on an approved schedule ASAP.

You're going to need a really good lock. Get the New York Fahgettaboudit U-Lock and the OnGuard Beast Chain Lock. Keep your Bike Locked at all times. :thumb:

Elevation near Jackson, Ms.? A loooooooooooooooooooong way away :)

I'm in Jackson, Tn and am at about elevation 450ft. Jackson, Ms is lower than that. The closest place to me with elevation to make a difference? Grandfather Mt, N.C.? That is several hundred miles away And that is 'only' 6,000 ft. Have to be out west to get 'elevation' and that is 1,300 miles away. So I think riding in elevation is a little bit of a stretch for us. Now it you said "riding in heat"......THAT we can do :)

Elevation near Jackson, Ms.? A loooooooooooooooooooong way away :)

I'm in Jackson, Tn and am at about elevation 450ft. Jackson, Ms is lower than that. The closest place to me with elevation to make a difference? Grandfather Mt, N.C.? That is several hundred miles away And that is 'only' 6,000 ft. Have to be out west to get 'elevation' and that is 1,300 miles away. So I think riding in elevation is a little bit of a stretch for us. Now it you said "riding in heat"......THAT we can do :)


Got cha BBW! ;)

Thanks!

- Slim :)

Thank you, you have helped a lot. My LBS will have to order the bike I want do they usually take awhile to ship?

I normally use a bike machine at the gym is it better to go for more resistance and less rpms or vice versa?

Thank you again.

Thank you, you have helped a lot. My LBS will have to order the bike I want do they usually take awhile to ship?

I normally use a bike machine at the gym is it better to go for more resistance and less rpms or vice versa?

Thank you again.

So do you know which bike you're going to order yet?

Have you ordered already?

Just curious...

- Slim :)

PS.

For building strength, you add resistance. For actual field triathlon training you would want to keep a steady cadence of approximately 90-100 rpm.

Heat yes and humidity, I think we have those covered.

I leaning toward the Felt F75, I am going to make sure it's what I want before I order it. I will probably order this Wednesday or Thursday when I have the free time to get by there.

I am also going to look up the other two you suggested tonight when I get on my laptop.

I leaning toward the Felt F75, I am going to make sure it's what I want before I order it. I will probably order this Wednesday or Thursday when I have the free time to get by there.

I am also going to look up the other two you suggested tonight when I get on my laptop.

Hey Zeerith!

Don't you think you'll need a beater or a single speed just to do errands on?

If so, then order off of either CL or bikesdirect.com!

Hate to see you park your beauty at the Seven Eleven and come out and see nothing there!

-OR-

Park it next to a beater bike where the person has scratched your bike with their lock or their beater!

Just Say'N

- Slim :)

zeerith, The F75 is a good choice, when looking at other manufacturers seek out similarily equipped models and you can't be far off the mark.

Brad

Sorry for the bad spelling/grammar in the other post. I have noticed a iPhone is not the best thing to post with.

Hey slim, I was thinking about that today in my C++ class how much I would cry if someone stole or even scratched my new shiny ride. I would be highly upset I will give that website a check now that I am home.

Brad I plan to try another bike shop just to make sure the Felt is what I want I believe their is one close that sells Cervélo, Giant, Look, Fuji and a few other brands. Any brands in particular you guys like/hate or have had any experience with?

I have been reading a lot about the brands, but don't put a lot trust in most internet reviews I find on random websites.

Besides, the fatigue life of aluminum is greater than that of carbon.

Trek engineers disagree. Skip ahead to the 9 minute mark to see the testing and their comment regarding aluminum vs carbon fatigue life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs

Trek engineers disagree. Skip ahead to the 9 minute mark to see the testing and their comment regarding aluminum vs carbon fatigue life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nVbmcnsXXs

Hey There RobertL!

T H A N K ....... Y O U! :thumb:

My GOD! I feel as though I've awakened from a very long hibernation!

- Slim :)

PS.

So insofar as fatigue life is concerned with carbon, it's really design dependent...

Yes it's able to bend and take stress that is spread out over the frame, but how does it handle focused stress. Will a clamp tear a hole right through the top tube? What about if something was to fall off a self and hit it at a point. How would it survive next to aluminum?

Thats what worries me. I know they are made strong and not for you to beat on, but accidents happen everyday.

Yes it's able to bend and take stress that is spread out over the frame, but how does it handle focused stress. Will a clamp tear a hole right through the top tube? What about if something was to fall off a self and hit it at a point. How would it survive next to aluminum?

Thats what worries me. I know they are made strong and not for you to beat on, but accidents happen everyday.

Yes!

Zeerith, I have for a long time wondered about the same thing. Actually, I already know that CF can't take high impact strikes. In fact, the smaller the area impacted, the greater the chance of compromised material structure. It's just that, I didn't know that the unibodied molded unit was so strong. I always thought that it was strong in one area but weak in so many others. That video convinced me that I was wrong!

Nonetheless, you're right! Striking CF frames with great force in small areas will compromise the integrity of the material for sure! I know that at one time, swinging handlebars could break the top tube. I heard of one case where this guy was so excited about completing a century before the storm began and he set his bike against a rail, while celebrating. The wind then blew the bike off the rail and the bike shattered in a couple places.
See, it's stories like that, that scares people and turns them away from CF!

However, this was many years ago. Do you suppose that CF has evolved that far away from that type of material compromise?

Something deep down inside of me suspects that it has, I'm just not certain. Anyway, I sure do have a much deeper respect for CF now, than I did when I woke up this morning!

- Slim :)

Slim I have know many who used CF on their cars with great result, but I have also seen them problems. I really liked the ride of the CF Felt I rode, but was still a little worried about the integrity of the CF.

This is the testing of a CF fishing pole. That shows its flexibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURrjDZgqm8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Slim I have know many who used CF on their cars with great result, but I have also seen them problems. I really liked the ride of the CF Felt I rode, but was still a little worried about the integrity of the CF.

This is the testing of a CF fishing pole. That shows its flexibility.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eURrjDZgqm8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Zeerith, one thing for certain.

It surpassed the flexiblity of both aluminum and steel! :D

- Slim :)

PS.

You know most roadies here in the Bay Area either ride CF or that's their goal...

For some reason, I just can't see myself riding on top of CF! :eek:

I get the feeling, that the longer you wait to get CF, the better off you'll be...

Sorta like computers, you know...

- Slim :)

Trek has a lifetime frame warrantee..

Trek has a lifetime frame warrantee..

Yeah, I know!

I was shocked to actually find out what it was!

Call 'em up and ask them about their frame "warranty"...However, do you have to promise not to laugh!

- Slim :)

In 1984 I purchased a Gary Klein "chicken coop" aluminum bike and rode it hard for 8 years. My local LBS rebuilt the Klein and my wife rode it for many miles 1992 - 2000.

In 1992 I built up a custom Serrotta steel bike and rode it hard for 8 years.

In 2004 I went back to long distance riding on the alumimum Klein.

In 2007 I purchased a Specialized Roubaix Elite (carbon fiber) and have ridden it over 7,000 miles.

In 2008 I sold the Klein aluminum bike to a long distance offroad tourist - he put on new wheels, headset, and lower gearing and has used it very successfully for multi-week gravel road, desert trail camping trips carrying 60 pound loads. That is on a 24 year old aluminum frame with at least 15,000 miles on it.

Each bike was different - each had it's own feel and characteristics but they all worked perfectly. I've not had a bit of problem with the frames on any of the bikes.

My personal opinion was the the Klein was the most uncomfortable - (jarring and high frequency vibrations) but also the stiffest.

The Serotta rode the nicest but it was a custom $1700 frame in 1992. The steel felt great and climbed like a dream - but it was by far the tightest geometry.

The carbon fiber Roubaix is very comfortable to ride and is the easiest for me to put in long miles. I'm 27 years older now but can put in longer miles more comfortably on the Roubaix that either of the other bikes.

I've had many other bikes in the past 50 years - in my case, what ever bike I am currently riding is the one that I like and want to ride.

Does anyone know if the bike I order now will be a 2011 or 2012 model. The website for Felt shows 2012 models.

In 1984 I purchased a Gary Klein "chicken coop" aluminum bike and rode it hard for 8 years. My local LBS rebuilt the Klein and my wife rode it for many miles 1992 - 2000.

In 1992 I built up a custom Serrotta steel bike and rode it hard for 8 years.

In 2004 I went back to long distance riding on the alumimum Klein.

In 2007 I purchased a Specialized Roubaix Elite (carbon fiber) and have ridden it over 7,000 miles.

In 2008 I sold the Klein aluminum bike to a long distance offroad tourist - he put on new wheels, headset, and lower gearing and has used it very successfully for multi-week gravel road, desert trail camping trips carrying 60 pound loads. That is on a 24 year old aluminum frame with at least 15,000 miles on it.

Each bike was different - each had it's own feel and characteristics but they all worked perfectly. I've not had a bit of problem with the frames on any of the bikes.

My personal opinion was the the Klein was the most uncomfortable - (jarring and high frequency vibrations) but also the stiffest.

The Serotta rode the nicest but it was a custom $1700 frame in 1992. The steel felt great and climbed like a dream - but it was by far the tightest geometry.

The carbon fiber Roubaix is very comfortable to ride and is the easiest for me to put in long miles. I'm 27 years older now but can put in longer miles more comfortably on the Roubaix that either of the other bikes.

I've had many other bikes in the past 50 years - in my case, what ever bike I am currently riding is the one that I like and want to ride.

That made for a very enjoyable read, Sir!

Thank you,

- Slim :)

Just so ya know, carbon fiber can be repaired.

Does anyone know if the bike I order now will be a 2011 or 2012 model. The website for Felt shows 2012 models.

I don't know but you'd better make certain, because some LBS will sell you a 2011 at 2012 prices.

PS. IMPORTANT!!!!

Zeerith, I think that Felt had some recalls on the Felt 75 model this year, you might want to look elsewhere...

- Slim :)

Yeah, I have been reading about the Felt F series in general having problems. I am going to another bike shop today and going to see if they have a Look 566, or Any Giant/Cervèlo about re same range. I also have a choice of getting a Madone.

A lot of choices only one decision I am going to make sure I try everything and make the right one.

Barrackssi, do you know how much they usually cost to repair or what they can fix?
Thanks for the info.

Barrackssi, do you know how much they usually cost to repair or what they can fix?
Thanks for the info.

A few hundred

But, a catastrphic frame accident is so rare, that I would not base my decision on that. Ride some bikes, find one you like (fit, components, price) and buy it. Then ride it a lot.

Yeah, I have been reading about the Felt F series in general having problems. I am going to another bike shop today and going to see if they have a Look 566, or Any Giant/Cervèlo about re same range. I also have a choice of getting a Madone.

A lot of choices only one decision I am going to make sure I try everything and make the right one.

Hey there Zeerith!

I'm sorry 'bout the Felt mishap...

I had know idea. I still feel hesitant about going all out full speed ahead on CF. If I were a miilionaire and I had money to burn, I'd do it in a heartbeat. However, since money we find these days tend to be well-protected from flames, I will still pass on CF, for at least another couple years.

Bear in mind though Zeerith, most roadies lean towards CF. If your concerned solely about speed, then apparently CF is the only way to go. However, what if you're only concerned about speed for a year or two. What if you'd like to take a casual spin in the city park or do a leisure sight-seeing trek or something. Perhaps, while doing so, you'd like to stop at a McDonald's or something. I wouldn't wanna lock my Madone somewhere in the public domain anywhere. You'd be forced to walk away from it! :eek:

I'm just going to say that at this point, I have to remain true to what's really in my heart. I say, look at the Jamis Quest, the Giant Defy1, or the Cannondale CAAD serires. Try them all. Get fit and have fun.

Personally, I'm a steel man at heart. No way I'd pass up that Quest. It'll still be here to remind of those wonderful Triathlon days when you were hitting up the BF for bicycle information over twenty years ago.

...You'll most probably be thinking those thoughts, while your teenage son is changing the breaks on his old Jamis Quest.


- Slim :)

PS.

However, in another world...Just the thought of owning a CAAD 10 3 Ultegra, a Trek Madone 5.5, and a Jamis Eclipse all together, sends pulsations of pure ecstasy throughout my entire muscle-stiffened body!

Well I went by another bike shop just to chat and get prices. Going back to test them this weekend. Anyways they have a Look 566 one with shimano 105 and one with SRAM rival components. Any advice on the difference?

They had a few Fuji I dont remember a lot about it. It was marked at 1999.00 and he said he could take a "few hundred off" due to tem ordering way to man they had like 6 or more of the same bike.

He also showed me a few Scott and giant bikes. Over all I am liking the Look, but won't make a decision till I ride them.

I have pictures, but don't know how to upload.

Well I went by another bike shop just to chat and get prices. Going back to test them this weekend. Anyways they have a Look 566 one with shimano 105 and one with SRAM rival components. Any advice on the difference?

They had a few Fuji I dont remember a lot about it. It was marked at 1999.00 and he said he could take a "few hundred off" due to tem ordering way to man they had like 6 or more of the same bike.

He also showed me a few Scott and giant bikes. Over all I am liking the Look, but won't make a decision till I ride them.

I have pictures, but don't know how to upload.

Yeah...I just checked their website! They LOOK absolutely spectacular! I checked the black & white one too. That's the prettiest one, I think...

So you've decided to take the plunge, huh?...As I indicated earlier, I'm a little apprehensive about CF's ability to take a hit ( I suspect you are too). I think a CAAD could take a hit! I think a Quest could take a hit! I'm not too sure about a Madone taking a hit...

Carbon frames historically, have consistently failed in the department of impact resistance for years. My fear is that perhaps it hasn't evolved past that characteristic yet...

- Slim :)

PS.

Don't forget the Madone family of Trek, they seemed to be ahead of the curve on CF technology. I was looking at their 300 and 400 series earlier today. They're beautiful! That Madone 3.1 is just gorgeous!

Hey slim I would love to try a Cannondale or other brand. Unfortunately I don't know of a place near here that sells them. Those are the only two shops I know of.

The Fuji worried me as they had marked it down to 1999.00 and were prepared to go even lower to sell. Maybe they had just had to many and sold some. I am not sure. They were full CF with 105 components.

Im also new to the sport and worried about durability of the carbin, and value since my budget was also around $2500. I tried all the madone at bicycles west one day (about 7hours). And tried all the road bikes at performance bike. I didnt love the madone's but I did love the aluminum frame carbon fork Focus Culebro at performance bike. The welds are triple butted and almost invisible. check it out...

ps, culebro comes with Ultegra

Hey slim I would love to try a Cannondale or other brand. Unfortunately I don't know of a place near here that sells them. Those are the only two shops I know of.

The Fuji worried me as they had marked it down to 1999.00 and were prepared to go even lower to sell. Maybe they had just had to many and sold some. I am not sure. They were full CF with 105 components.

Hey there Zeerith!

Fuji is a heck of a name in bikes!

They're most probably beleaguered from the dwindling economy and just trying like the dickens to get some 2011 Fuji bikes out of inventory for clearance. You know the 2012's are on their way soon!

Before I'd buy anything from a LBS selling Fuji, I'd check the following website out:

www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1094065_-1 (http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1094065_-1)
Fuji Altamira 3.0 - Carbon 105's (2011)

www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1104617_-1_20000 (http://www.performancebike.com/bikes/Product_10052_10551_1104617_-1_20000)_
Fuji Roubaix 1.0 - Aluminum Sram Rivals (2011)

- Slim :)

PS.

Who knows Zeerith? They may have been trying to slip one on you... :rolleyes:

This is the one you want! Just go try 'em out! Get the size! Go back home and order from Performance! :thumb:

FNG I will check them out, the only problem is I don't think a lbs here has them. Thanks for the info though. I didn't care for the Madone I rode, but figured the higher models were better. I am going to try that Fuji since I might can get it for well under 2000 when it was originally over 2000. I wish I could
Remember te model though.

FNG I will check them out, the only problem is I don't think a lbs here has them. Thanks for the info though. I didn't care for the Madone I rode, but figured the higher models were better. I am going to try that Fuji since I might can get it for well under 2000 when it was originally over 2000. I wish I could
Remember te model though.

Zeerith! Checkout the Performance WEBSITE above!

Barrackssi, do you know how much they usually cost to repair or what they can fix?
Thanks for the info.

These aren't the only guys who can do it, but they're the name I remember:
http://www.calfeedesign.com/repair/

And, as homebrew said, catastrophic failures are pretty rare anyway. I've been told of bike shop employees having to destroy carbon frames that were replaced for warranty reasons and having a heck of a time breaking them because they're so strong.

You mention the Look 566 in 105 and Rival -- it's a really, really nice-riding bike. The day I took one for a spin, I also tried a Specialized Tarmac; between the two, I wanted to ride faster on the Tarmac, and I felt I could ride all day on the 566. If it were up to me, I'd get the Rival bike and have the shop swap a Shimano crankset onto it. Of the four bikes I've ridden with Sram/GXP cranks, three wobbled enough to rub the FD cage when pushing tall gears. You could also do like I did and ride it as-is until it develops the same problem, then ask if they'll change cranks to avoid a repeat of the same issue. ;)

220704This is the Fuji sorry for the small photo.

220705 THis was the Look Rival

220706THis is the Look 105.

I checked it out Slim, I am going to call tomorrow and talk to the guy and ask him what the Fuji was.

I have a few days to consider what I want so I am in no rush, I just am trying to get the best bike for me.

Does anyone know what stance the 566 is? I want a more aggressive stance.

Picture the 566 like a Specialized Roubaix, Cannondale Synapse, etc. It's got a taller head tube and, given the same number of spacers, would have the bars higher than a more aggressive bike like a Tarmac or SuperSix.

220706THis is the Look 105.

Hey there Zeerith!

I just love that LOOK look!

I think both LOOKS could fit in my stable...

You've got excellent taste!

- Slim :)

PS.

You're really making me think about carbon now boy, I'll tell ya!!!

So what's up, Zeerith?

Did you ride yesterday?

Did you check out the Fuji prices and models at the dealers?

C'mon man, I'm getting excited about your purchase too!...Especially since you're taking the carbon plunge.

You know speaking of carbon. I'm really getting into carbon in terms of being able to grasp its potential and seeing it as the all 'round cycling frame material of the future and all. However, mishaps do occur! Do you know that if you were to damage your bike, you would not be under any kind of warranty or anything? Also, carbon damage can be very allusive. You would need highly sophisticated detection devices (x-ray or ultra sound) in order to determine for certain, if the bike's frame was compromised in any way.The bicycle company would tell you that any damage incurred after the original sale is not covered in the warranty. They would then (most likely) offer you a small discount towards a brand new frame ( damn that's expensive)!

How do you know for certain that you'll have the bucks to cover a new frame then? How do you know for certain that you'll even be into the triathlon thing this much, in the future? Perhaps you should rethink the purchase and settle upon something more conservative.

If not, then go full speed ahead..The triathlon is a competition. People generally enter competitions to win. The lighter the bike, the faster you should be. In that case, carbon beats out any other frame material. However, the triathlon, being what it is, you could make up for lost time during the other events...Just say'n....

It's still not too late to go aluminum if you want to play it conservatively. Hey! None of us are millionaires around here, you know...

Anyway, I'm certain you'll make a wise decision.

Good Luck!

- Slim :)

Hey Slim, I wasn't able to get to the bike shop worked a extra shift. Though I am for sure going tomorrow. I have been thinking a lot on this purchase and I am considering all options.

To be honest the more I think of the pros and cons of aluminum VS CF, I start leaning more towards aluminum. Price point is much better, weight difference is not that big of a deal. I am a fast runner always have been I could easily make up lost time in that area I believe.

I am going to go back and check out some more of the bikes and make sure i pick the right bike. I won't make a purchase until Monday/Tuesday at the earliest. That gives me the time I want to research the different bikes.

I don't think I will go for the Fuji, not to say there is anything wrong with the brand or bikes. I just have a odd feeling about them been that marked down and them still having that many of the bike.

My biggest problem so far is finding a Alluminum bike to ride. The only one I have ridden so far is a lower end model Trek. I would like to have more options than
Just that one model. They sale giants, but I looked on giants website and couldn't find any alluminum bikes. Maybe I over looked them.

They have one other brand that they don't keep on the floor that is Colgnago I believe is the correct spelling.

I am goin to give myself a few options and keep a open mind on any bikes.