Foo - Foo, a dear friend of mine needs some serious help...

This is a longish post but I spent quite some time making it and I would really apretiate if you can read it and provide some input/comments/sugestions. I have a friend in trouble and he *really* needs direction on what to do next.

Here's the situation:

Back In December 2010

My friend had a good paying job at the top of his field which is a very limited field. Positions on that industry are scarce and difficult to get. However, something was going on with the manager. Maybe it was rasism, maybe something else, we don't know. But the manager was setting my friend up for failure by giving him double the proyects as everybody else, canceling his vacations the day before they started, all sort of nasty things.

January 2011

My friend was convinced (and so was I) that the manager was trying to build up a record in order to fire him. Given that the field is a limited one, he can't afford that risk. So he asked for a transfer to another office, 20 miles away. The transfer got approved but the current manager requested a meeting. To this meeting attended the manager of the new aspiring position, the regional director, the current manager and my friend.

The current manager then said that he was heavily understaffed and that my friend was one of the few that could manage a heavy schedule, therefore he was needed there and he opposed to the transfer. The director, based on this, decided to keep my friend where he was.

February

Even tho the manager praised my friend to keep him from getting a transfer, he continued writing him up for the silliest reasons like getting late by 2 minutes (regardless of he worked 6 hours overtime the night before). It was clear to my friend that the only way to save his proffesional record was to resign and get another job elsewhere. He already had a job lined up so he put his 2 weeks notice and left.

March

My friend is feeling great on his new job. This one was an entry level position on a no-name small company with half the pay... but at least he was free of the nasty manager *and* he saved his career (or so he thought).

Two weeks into the new job he gets terminated. The new boss claimed that bussiness was slow and he had to be let go. That explanation sounded fishy but off he went into the job market.

October

Months have past, my friend was still unemployed. He has go to numerous interviews (common) and even sent to drug testing prior to being hired (uncommon). But there is always a phone call just before the starting date saying that they choose somebody else.

And today he received a call that confirmed what we suspected. Yet another job where he got interviews, got drug testing and even was sent to mandatory company new-hire training (and got paid for those hours)... received a call from new boss saying they were not going to hire him... because (drum roll here)... they talked to his old job and the nasty manager over there gave really bad references about him.

What now

As it is, his career is pretty much over. It's been months on end of unemployment, his savings (even the 401k) are long gone, his car was repossed, he's living with friends... really bad spot overall.

He told me what happened this morning and I feel like it was happening to me. In fact, I had the same thing happening to me like 20 years ago. It was back in Puerto Rico and I sued and won. But I now nothing about the labor laws here in Florida. I know Florida is a pro-employer state where most of the workers rights get ignored. But come on! There got to be something that my friend could do.

Any comments would be really apreciated.

Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.

Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.
it is illegal to tape someones conversation without their knowledge in some states.

It is against California law for an old employer to give any other feedback other than dates of service, type of job performed and pay scale. I know this because I was the hiring person. You might want to check into this to see if something like this is similar in your state.

If so, that ex boss is in big trouble!

Have your friend see a lawyer.

Check these links out, Rube.

http://undercoverlawyer.hubpages.com/hub/Employee-Rights-Can-Your-Bully-Boss-Abuse-You-With-Bad-References

http://dr.hotjobs.yahoo.com/answers-20070531102808AAvebPJ

http://www.indeed.com/forum/job/legal-assistant/Background-Checks/t44062

It is against California law for an old employer to give any other feedback other than dates of service, type of job performed and pay scale. I know this because I was the hiring person. You might want to check into this to see if something like this is similar in your state.

If so, that ex boss is in big trouble!

It's our Company Policy that ONLY our Human Resources department can respond to questions regarding past employee records. Employees / Managers are not allowed to give past employees Letters of Recommendation, or provide recommendations (or negative comments) over the phone. I believe our HR department basically provides the minimal information you pointed out above.

So you were fired 20 yrs ago in Portable Rico due to race?

We need to have a long talk over a few Sailor Jerrys to iron this out

Call his old boss for a reference. Tape it. You can tape a call as long ONE side of the party knows it is being taped. You just can't tape everything indiscriminately with a court order. See if old boss says bad stuff.

If so see a lawyer. He may have a civil case.


All a former employer is allowed to say, without risk of libel is whether he's eligible for rehire or not. They can go above and beyond with a good reference, of course, that's beneficial, but the not eligible for rehire is code fo0r "Do Not Hire".

What goes around, comes around.

The old boss deserves to suffer. Sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Time to lawyer up, Rube.

Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?

Our friend Rube as usual has been very cryptic on giving us all the facts on his friend.
Rube is a charitable type guy but does get caught up in the drama a bit.

I preferred the usual Rubens Car/Beaver Workshop TM..

It's our Company Policy that ONLY our Human Resources department can respond to questions regarding past employee records. Employees / Managers are not allowed to give past employees Letters of Recommendation, or provide recommendations (or negative comments) over the phone. I believe our HR department basically provides the minimal information you pointed out above.

I thought that was ontario law.

Just FYI, the reality in most states that it is very difficult for a former employee to win a defamation suit against a former employer. You have to be able to establish that the defamatory statements are untrue and they were the proximate cause of not being hired. This can be a difficult standard to prove. Not to mention that these cases are generally not big payoffs even if the employee was to prevail, so many plaintiff lawyers are not eager to take such cases.

Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?

Always two sides to the story.

Anyone besides me think Rubes friend may be the problem?

Doubt it. First, well, it's my friend and when he screws up he tells me so. Second, he always had 100% in his yearly reviews (and has hard copies) for 6 years... Problems started in late 2010 when the nasty manager assumed position. And 3rd, the whole transfer thing. If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.

I call him last night to let him know about the links that Siu posted (thx Siu) and got some more details. The new job *did* got generally good references from the old job human resources dept. And before he started the new job training, he did sign a contract, got a badge, employee number etc... he was already hired. It was a few days into the training that the nasty manager himself took the time to call the new job and screw my friend up.

Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.

He'll come later today to use my super duper mega fast internet connection to do some research and try to find a lawyer. I'll let you know how it went.

IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.

Always two sides to the story.
Three sides...person 1, person 2, and the truth.

IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.


Not necessarily. The company likely has employment liability practices insurance that provides coverage for these sort of claims. So it is spending the insurance company's money.

It is like my malpractice cases where someone wants to financially punish the hospital or doctor; they get kind of deflated when I point out that the hospital or doctor has insurance, and they are not paying any money out of pocket for the case.

Not necessarily. The company likely has employment liability practices insurance that provides coverage for these sort of claims. So it is spending the insurance company's money.

It is like my malpractice cases where someone wants to financially punish the hospital or doctor; they get kind of deflated when I point out that the hospital or doctor has insurance, and they are not paying any money out of pocket for the case.

true, but losing lawsuits can raise premiums which will hurt them a little bit and be an annoyance.

lawyer

If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.


I am a manager and am devoted to the company I work for. If I had a problem employee and have started the paperwork to document the reasons behind his pending dismissal I would block a transfer. Why? Because The whole process would have to start over again.

Never happened though. I have been blessed with decent people for the most part.

Doubt it. First, well, it's my friend and when he screws up he tells me so. Second, he always had 100% in his yearly reviews (and has hard copies) for 6 years... Problems started in late 2010 when the nasty manager assumed position. And 3rd, the whole transfer thing. If I'm in charge of a team with a problematic employee that I'm trying to fire, why deny his transfer? On the contrary, I would help the guy so I could get rid of him faster.

I call him last night to let him know about the links that Siu posted (thx Siu) and got some more details. The new job *did* got generally good references from the old job human resources dept. And before he started the new job training, he did sign a contract, got a badge, employee number etc... he was already hired. It was a few days into the training that the nasty manager himself took the time to call the new job and screw my friend up.

Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.

He'll come later today to use my super duper mega fast internet connection to do some research and try to find a lawyer. I'll let you know how it went.

IMHO, it is not about winning but more about discouraging nasty manager from keeping this up. If the old company has to spend resources and money on a case, the nasty manager's superiors might tell him to let this issue go. Companies like *making* money, not spend it.

Thank you Rubester for giving more complete facts(you're no Perry Mason).
Now we have some of the great minds of the universe working on your case here in Fooland.


Your friend sounds like the perfect employee but was he the guy showing up for work in a leather vest and assless chaps?

Granted, maybe my friend did something of personal nature that piss off the old manager. But never the less, personal grievances should not interfere with professional behavior.


I must have overlooked this gem.
What did he do that pissed the boss off?

true, but losing lawsuits can raise premiums which will hurt them a little bit and be an annoyance.

Emphasis on the 'can raise premiums'. It is pretty rare that any one case results in premium increases or policy cancellation. So if you goal is to wreak financial ruin upon your opponent, the typical lawsuit does not do so, unless it is an exposure not covered by insurance.

The old manager should have an unfortunate accident, and thus, not be able to give bad references.

Not necessarily. The company likely has employment liability practices insurance that provides coverage for these sort of claims. So it is spending the insurance company's money.

It is like my malpractice cases where someone wants to financially punish the hospital or doctor; they get kind of deflated when I point out that the hospital or doctor has insurance, and they are not paying any money out of pocket for the case.

Well then there is the award limitation. If a doctor loses a case and it goes over a certain dollar amount then it goes into investigation by the board. The doctor can lose his license.

What about that transfer that did not happen. There were 2 other guys there. Heck depending the other manager might even be willing to hire.

Check the company policy from where he used to work. If the manager is breaking it his bosses might be far from pleased. It is very possible the rest of the company is entirely unawre of what is going on, especially if it is underhanded.

I must have overlooked this gem.
What did he do that pissed the boss off?

A small trist with the bosses wife at the Miami Copa Cabanna and Notell Hotel?
Come on Rube,lets spit out the "whole" story here,you're holding out on us and you damn well know it.

The old manager should have an unfortunate accident, and thus, not be able to give bad references.

And you (constantly) call us hostile and violent?
I think it's about time we cancell this idependent country thing up there and establish another US state and put you heathens in order.

A small trist with the bosses wife at the Miami Copa Cabanna and Notell Hotel?
Come on Rube,lets spit out the "whole" story here,you're holding out on us and you damn well know it.

It's been clearly established around these parts that dating your boss's sister is in no way reason for termination, discrimination or prosecution.

He should call the HR department of the former employer and tell them what he knows or suspects. They will deny etc., but they will also contact the manager and perhaps his management chain. Policy will be explained. More effective from a lawyer, but that costs.

He should call the HR department of the former employer and tell them what he knows or suspects. They will deny etc., but they will also contact the manager and perhaps his management chain. Policy will be explained. More effective from a lawyer, but that costs.
+1

He could with some help from friends set up a sting operation. Have one of them call the old manager pretending to be a human resource person from a out of area company who is checking references before decicing to hire your friend and see what he has to say. Of course,everything to do with the conversation is being filmed and taped. Then if the sting confirms his suspicions just at the end of the sting have your friend advise the mamager that the entire conversation was taped for introduction as evidence in your friend's civil suit against him. Then take the recordings to a lawyer and go from there.

It's been clearly established around these parts that dating your boss's sister is in no way reason for termination, discrimination or prosecution.

Well, well. I wonder what transpired during that relationship.

Perhaps your friend can ask his ex-boss' sister for help?

It's been clearly established around these parts that dating your boss's sister is in no way reason for termination, discrimination or prosecution.

........and the plot thickens in Rubenstory TM

Well, well. I wonder what transpired during that relationship.

Perhaps your friend can ask his ex-boss' sister for help?

A one night stand for the bosses sister with the old "aroundtheworld" treatment then telling everyone in the office who would listen.

A small trist with the bosses wife at the Miami Copa Cabanna and Notell Hotel?
Come on Rube,lets spit out the "whole" story here,you're holding out on us and you damn well know it.

Rube is not efrobert. Rube is the guy who esplodes things. Get your foosters right.

Two thoughts occur to me. One is that if he really believes there was a vendetta against him, legal action would be worthwhile. The other thing he can do if he uses the nasty boss as a reference is to tell prospective employers what happened so they know to take what they hear with a grain of salt.

I'm having trouble understanding how his career could be over regardless of how nasty the reference is. I use references only to confirm what I observe. I do not trust references or information I can't verify (unless they come from people I know to be trustworthy) all because people have all kinds of reasons to give false positives and false negatives.

I would go so far as to say that morons seem to be particularly good at securing stellar recommendations and that the best people (i.e. the ones that actually do anything) always leave some upset in their wake which can be reflected in references. I can't believe I'm the only one who puts almost no stock in references.

Rube is not efrobert. Rube is the guy who esplodes things. Get your foosters right.

efrobert is not crackerjab. efrobert offends women on the internet. crackerjab gets things done.

efrobert is not crackerjab. efrobert offends women on the internet. crackerjab gets things done.

:roflmao2:

Just out of curiosity, why didn't your friend report the manager when he was being harassed? This sounds so blatant that it would be a no brainer for the higher ups to decide.

Rube is not efrobert. Rube is the guy who esplodes things. Get your foosters right.

No,No
Rubesters friend did the big nasty to the bosses sister and told the whole office.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't your friend report the manager when he was being harassed? This sounds so blatant that it would be a no brainer for the higher ups to decide.

This is why we are trained here in Foo to read between the lines.
Three options for his dismissal:sex,drugs,or rock and roll in the hay.

No,No
Rubesters friend did the big nasty to the bosses sister and told the whole office.

Yeah, Rube's friend is efrobert, not Rube.

Just out of curiosity, why didn't your friend report the manager when he was being harassed? This sounds so blatant that it would be a no brainer for the higher ups to decide.

He did, twice. But nasty boss plays golf with department director and everything was swept under the rug pretty much.

However. Things are looking great. Yesterday's hunt for legal representation was very successful. A firm was chosen and they got to work right away. They already obtained written statements from new job (the one that hired my friend and fired him few days later) saying they got regular/normal/good references from old job's HR, but later received a fax from nasty manager himself with all sorts of nasty things on it. Some requests where filled (subpoenas?) to obtain original copies of faxes and emails sent by both old job's HR and nasty manager to my friend's new potential employers.

Sadly, since this is an actual legal case, my friend was asked not to publicly disclose the legal details of what's going on from this point forward. But I can say this, my friend's new job, called him and want him back starting tomorrow. They said the old job contacted them, apologized for the "mistake", sent letter of recommendation and praised my friend for his years of service there.

Rube is not efrobert. Rube is the guy who esplodes things. Get your foosters right.

Some of things just kind of blew up around Rube, we can't blame him for every wacka wacka that happened around him.

Good news, now tell your friend not to give up the fight. Who knows how many others that manager has sewered over the years. A lesson needs to be taught.

Good news, now tell your friend not to give up the fight. Who knows how many others that manager has sewered over the years. A lesson needs to be taught.

Hells to the bells no. Sometimes I am sorry doesn't cut it. I'll keep up the moral support on my end till reparations are paid up. :D

Oh and my friend asked me to thank my "internet friends" for their moral support and suggestions... specially Siu for the link about the Robinson v. Shell Oil Co. case.