Electronics, Lighting, & Gadgets - Dynamo Lighting Question

I have searched, but cannot find the info I need, soooooooooo...

I am about to drop some cash on an Alfine dynohub, and I need some lights to go with it.

I have short listed the head light to one of three options (for the time being, we will be ignoring all sub-models such as N, T, Senso, Plus, &c.)

My three options are as follows

Scmidt Edelux ~£130.00
B&M IQ Cyo/Cyo R ~£65.00
B&M Lumotec Lyt ~£30.00

Ideally I would drop the cash on the Edelux, but I don't think I can justify the money, especially when the beam, while better, is not that greatly different than the IQ Cyo R (I don't think it is twice as good). Also availability of the Edelux is a concern - so really I have already scratched that from my list.

That leaves me choosing between the IQ Cyo/Cyo R and the Lumotec Lyt, and this is where I need your help. Especially from anyone who has experience of BOTH of these lights.

I have chosen the Cyo R over the Cyo for the closer lighting, but my mind is not 100% behind this, but are either the Cyo or the Cyo R twice as good as the Lumotec Lyt?

I cannot find beamshots ANYWHERE for the Lyt, but on the face of it it seems the more suitable option for me. But without being able to see the beam pattern I am in a quandry.

Feel free to suggest alternative lights if you must - but it is the shape (and and style) of these lights that I really like and whilst looks are not really important for lighting the road, I can't stand the looks of the B&M IQ Fly, AXA Nano or Trelock Bird..

My pocket is telling me to go for the Lumotec Lyt, and to be fair that may be all I need as I rarely do anything in completely unlit areas, that said, I can't help wondering how much better the IQ Cyo/Cyo R are.

Many thanks in advance.

the reason I didn't buy the edelux is that some people have problems with water intrusion. I ended up getting the supernova asymmetric, which I really like. I really liked the beam of the edelux, but the supernova seems just as good to me. It's a little heavy. I do like the looks, and I bought the lefty version because I intend to mount it to a custom rack, and that seemed like the best mounting solution

I might get the lyt for my commuter. The prices you listed seem high to me.

Why don't you go with Cyo on German Ebay? I think I paid ~55 euro.

Beam shots. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp

the reason I didn't buy the edelux is that some people have problems with water intrusion. I ended up getting the supernova asymmetric, which I really like. I really liked the beam of the edelux, but the supernova seems just as good to me. It's a little heavy. I do like the looks, and I bought the lefty version because I intend to mount it to a custom rack, and that seemed like the best mounting solution

I might get the lyt for my commuter. The prices you listed seem high to me.

Cheers, I must admit I did consider the Supernova, I have been lusting after them for a while, but like the edelux - for what I use the bike for I am not sure I can justify the outlay, same reason I am going for the Alfine Hub over the SON.

Re prices, don't forget I am quoting in Her Majesty's Pounds Sterling. Rose Versand (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/) don't stock the edelux, but they list the Supernova E3 Pro (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/supernova-led-front-light-e3-pro/aid:489117) at £140.90 GBP. A google shopping search listed the edelux at around £130.00. And Rose Versand (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/) has the B + M Lumotec Lyt senso plus (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-lumotec-lyt-senso-plus/aid:450616) for £27.90 GBP, B + M Lumotec IQ Cyo RT senso plus 40 lux (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-lumotec-iq-cyo-rt-senso-plus-40-lux/aid:457404) and B + M Lumotec IQ Cyo T senso plus 60 lux (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/b--m-lumotec-iq-cyo-t-senso-plus-60-lux/aid:457434), both for £63.90 GBP. All three have stand light and auto sensing, and the last 2 have the daytime running lights.


Why don't you go with Cyo on German Ebay? I think I paid ~55 euro.

Cheers, I'll look into ebay.de and see what deals I can find.


Beam shots. http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp

Cheers, but I had already been there. They have beam shots for the
Lumotec Fly, 2.4 watt halogen Spanninga Luceo LED Hella HL2000 Busch & Müller DLumotec and Ixon Busch & Müller Ixon IQ Lumotec IQ Fly Schmidt Edelux Supernova E3 Pro Schmidt E6 Busch & Müller Lumotec IQ CYO Busch & Müller Lumotec IQ CYO R Supernova E3 Pro Asymmetrical (original version) Supernova E3 Pro Asymmetrical Supernova E3 Pro Symmetrical Supernova E3 Triple

But NOT the Lumotec Lyt. Hence the reason I posted the question. I can't find beamshots for the Lyt anywhere.

...

I cannot find beamshots ANYWHERE for the Lyt, ...

While I don't read German, I've stared at bumm.de long enough to convince myself that the Lyt is a lower-powered version of the IQ Cyo. The Cyo is good enough for me to take anywhere -- dark, sodium-vapor streetlight glare, or anywhere in between. If you can get by with 60% of that much light, you can probably make do with the Lyt.

Why don't you go with Cyo on German Ebay? I think I paid ~55 euro.

been looking into that option - with delivery it is not going to work out a great deal different. Total price inc. del. is ~€60 EUR, which equal to ~£53 GBP - but for the tenner difference I would rather deal with Rose as they make sure all the import duties are covered.


While I don't read German, I've stared at bumm.de long enough to convince myself that the Lyt is a lower-powered version of the IQ Cyo. The Cyo is good enough for me to take anywhere -- dark, sodium-vapor streetlight glare, or anywhere in between. If you can get by with 60% of that much light, you can probably make do with the Lyt.

True - but i am more worried about the shape of the beam than the lux rating. Which is why I would like to see a beam shot. Looking at the pictures the beam should be different as the LED in the CYO is above and in front of the reflector, pointing rearwards - whereas the LED in the Lyt appears to be placed more like a standard halogen bulb, in the centre of the reflector facing forwards.

I am already considering the ^lower powered^ CYO R (40 lux) over the CYO (60 lux) as it puts the beam closer to the front wheel. The Lyt is only 25 lux, but that still may be plenty good enough for me. And unless the others are at least twice as good, I may as well go for the cheaper option. However, if they are significantly better I will go with the CYO/CYO R.

I have a lyt on a family member's bicycle and will try to get a beam shot for you.

There is some good reading on dynamo lighting on This (http://www.blayleys.com/) website.

They do sell this in a dynamo version:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/philips-saferide-led-bike-light-2012-mtbr-lights-shootout

I've got one each of a Cyo and Supernova E3 Pro asymmetrical now. The Cyo (long-range) is much better for riding on the road, and frankly I don't miss the close-in light (maybe I'd feel differently in rutted snow). I think the E3 Pro, with its shallow, wider beam, might be better if you were on a narrow MUP where you need to keep close track of where the edge is. The Cyo's standlight also kicks the Supernova's backside, and it's a lot lighter. I even like the mount better.

Moar info here, much more (including beamshots and very extensive commentary): http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html


My pocket is telling me to go for the Lumotec Lyt, and to be fair that may be all I need as I rarely do anything in completely unlit areas,

You need less light in unlit areas, generally. When there's no competing light sources, your night vision gets to adapt, and when obstacles aren't being blanketed by flat light from streetlights, your light will make them stand out better.

Also, if you don't need the brake-disc mount on the Alfine, consider the DH-3N80 (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/764099-Shimano-DH-3N80-dynohub). 190 grams lighter, prettier, and gives you a symmetrical (stronger) front wheel.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/mechBgon/DH-3N80/IMG_0031.jpg

I have a lyt on a family member's bicycle and will try to get a beam shot for you.

That is very kind, and much appreciated. I await your post.

Many thanks in advance.


There is some good reading on dynamo lighting on This (http://www.blayleys.com/) website.


Cheers, I haven't got time to dig through there to find the relevant info right now (off to work) but i will have a look later.


They do sell this in a dynamo version:

http://reviews.mtbr.com/philips-saferide-led-bike-light-2012-mtbr-lights-shootout

Cheers, I did notice thePhilips LED front light Bike Light (http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/philips-led-front-light-bike-light/aid:489003) on Rose Bikes (I've got one each of a Cyo and Supernova E3 Pro asymmetrical now. The Cyo (long-range) is much better for riding on the road, and frankly I don't miss the close-in light (maybe I'd feel differently in rutted snow). I think the E3 Pro, with its shallow, wider beam, might be better if you were on a narrow MUP where you need to keep close track of where the edge is. The Cyo's standlight also kicks the Supernova's backside, and it's a lot lighter. I even like the mount better.

Moar info here, much more (including beamshots and very extensive commentary): [URL]http://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests/verlichting/index_en.html



You need less light in unlit areas, generally. When there's no competing light sources, your night vision gets to adapt, and when obstacles aren't being blanketed by flat light from streetlights, your light will make them stand out better.

Also, if you don't need the brake-disc mount on the Alfine, consider the DH-3N80 (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/764099-Shimano-DH-3N80-dynohub). 190 grams lighter, prettier, and gives you a symmetrical (stronger) front wheel.

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff237/mechBgon/DH-3N80/IMG_0031.jpg[/QUOTE]

Cheers. Re: the hub, I need the disc mount and currently have centre lock discs on a 32 hole black hub with black spokes. The DH-S501 covers all those bases. I could possibly go with other 32 hole non black versions, but those suitable for disc then seem to be the 6 bolt variety, which would mean purchasing a new rotor which lessens the price gap between the Alfine and the likes of the DH-3D20 (suitable for small wheels, but only 2.4W - the DH-3D30 doesn't com in 32 hole :( )

Does anyone subscribe to Bicycle Quaterly ( www.bikequarterly.com/)? It would cost me as much as the lights to order the back issues, but they have reviewed the following lights:

Lumotec Lyt LED headlight (Vol. 9, No. 3)
Lumotec IQ Cyo LED headlight (Vol. 7, No. 4)
Lumotec IQ Cyo R LED headlight (Vol. 8, No. 2)

They also cover the IQ Fly, edelux and e3, but I amost interested in the Cyo and Lyt. If anyone has access to the above issues, any chance of some info? Cheets.

If you look at the manufacturer's beamshots, Lyt looks pretty weak.
Cyo
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/60_lux_600x600.jpg
Cyo r
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/Cyo_Tunnel_40lux_RGB_BU.jpg
Lyt
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/178_tunnelbild.jpg

Does anyone subscribe to Bicycle Quaterly ( www.bikequarterly.com/)? It would cost me as much as the lights to order the back issues, but they have reviewed the following lights:

Lumotec Lyt LED headlight (Vol. 9, No. 3)
Lumotec IQ Cyo LED headlight (Vol. 7, No. 4)
Lumotec IQ Cyo R LED headlight (Vol. 8, No. 2)


From memory here; Jan Heine (aka Mr. BQf) loves the IQ Cyo for his randonneuring rides, but hates the Cyo R because it's not as bright further out. IIRC he put the Lyt on one of his children's bikes, and liked it.

My comment on my own summary: it's an apples to peaches to oranges comparison.

The Cyo is made for randonneuring, which is his sport, and I've read elsewhere that Jan is one of the fastest descenders around. If you want to see the twisty, mountain road way ahead of you as you bomb down it at speeds in excess of 40 mph, go with the Cyo.

The Cyo R, as the manufacturer notes, directs some of that way-out light to the road nearer the light. As Jan notes, the R version lights up obstacles in the road that's too close for you to avoid if you're flying downhill. I've found it useful on a rough, unlit MUP, rarely exceeding 15 mph on that stretch. It's also adequate for my current commute featuring an allegedly lit road going straight downhill, but on which I rarely exceed 35 mph.

I'd have liked to have seen a comparison between the Lyt and the Cyo R. I think the Cyo R market (urban/suburban commute) is the one B&M is going after with the Lyt, but at a lower price. Unfortunately, Jan only compared the Lyt to the Cyo not-R.

I'll close with a note that my Shimano 3N72/Cyo R combination has survived the worse deluge I've been in, day or night, and operated through that without any problems.

If you look at the manufacturer's beamshots, Lyt looks pretty weak.
Cyo
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/60_lux_600x600.jpg
Cyo r
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/Cyo_Tunnel_40lux_RGB_BU.jpg
Lyt
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_bummprodukte/178_tunnelbild.jpg

*slaps head*

How the hell did I miss that‽

Looking at those photo's, I think the Lyt may not be good enough for what I want - it would help if their photos had some markers at set points so we could get an accurate feel as we don't know the width of that tunnel, and pictures can be deceiving.


From memory here; Jan Heine (aka Mr. BQf) loves the IQ Cyo for his randonneuring rides, but hates the Cyo R because it's not as bright further out. IIRC he put the Lyt on one of his children's bikes, and liked it.

My comment on my own summary: it's an apples to peaches to oranges comparison.

The Cyo is made for randonneuring, which is his sport, and I've read elsewhere that Jan is one of the fastest descenders around. If you want to see the twisty, mountain road way ahead of you as you bomb down it at speeds in excess of 40 mph, go with the Cyo.

The Cyo R, as the manufacturer notes, directs some of that way-out light to the road nearer the light. As Jan notes, the R version lights up obstacles in the road that's too close for you to avoid if you're flying downhill. I've found it useful on a rough, unlit MUP, rarely exceeding 15 mph on that stretch. It's also adequate for my current commute featuring an allegedly lit road going straight downhill, but on which I rarely exceed 35 mph.

I'd have liked to have seen a comparison between the Lyt and the Cyo R. I think the Cyo R market (urban/suburban commute) is the one B&M is going after with the Lyt, but at a lower price. Unfortunately, Jan only compared the Lyt to the Cyo not-R.

I'll close with a note that my Shimano 3N72/Cyo R combination has survived the worse deluge I've been in, day or night, and operated through that without any problems.

Cheers for that, very interesting.





On a side note, I stumble across a 2012 B&M catalogue (http://www.bumm.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Katalog/Ans_Neuheiten_2012_RZ_BU_GB.pdf) showing a "B" or Budget version of the Lyt (denoted by 3 plastic rings on the casing instead of 4) - This is a 10 Lux version instead of the standard Lyt's 25 Lux (don't think I will be getting that).


The new middle class

LUMOTEC Lyt
The popular, compact LED headlight. New optical lens, significantly enhanced. Much more homogenous lighting of the road. every square inch "made in Germany".

Version B - according to standards
The basic version with more than 10 lux. For all cyclists who wish to upgrade from halogen to modern LED technology. No more burnt-out light bulbs, lasts for umpteenth thousands of hours!
Very homogenous light field, good lighting of the road, with light at close range, robust casing, high standards of manufacturing - proven B&M brand quality without restrictions.
The basic version can easily be recognized: It has a smooth casing with three rings.

B&M IQ Cyo/Cyo R ~£65.00

That's what I would get. I have the (hideous to you) IQ Fly and have no complaints. I don't think I would want anything less bright than that. The Cyo is a good light; some friends of mine run it (including, I think, the owner of the LBS).

Well unless B&M have made any massive changes with the optics (doubtful) of the Lyt, it looks like the Cyo R will be my choice. Would still like to see Fenway (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php/177039-Fenway)'s pictures though.

I have been digging through bumm.de, and after comparing the images, I think I will go with the Lyt. I know the Cyo has a better beam, but considering what and where I will be using it, I won't be needing it. And after seeing the difference between a 10 lux halogen and the Lyt, I am happy with the Lyt see here (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bumm.de%2Finnovation-original%2Flichtvergleich-scheinwerfer.html)

10 Lux Halogen
http://www.bumm.de/uploads/tx_templavoila/10_Lux_01.jpg

25 Lux (Lyt) (why they don't use this pic on the Lyt page beats me, as it is far better (IMHO) than the one they use (posted above).
http://www.bumm.de/typo3temp/pics/4611aa6982.jpg

40 Lux (IQ Cyo R, IQ Fly, Ixon)
http://www.bumm.de/typo3temp/pics/f5f50bdf31.jpg

60 Lux (IQ Cyo)
http://www.bumm.de/typo3temp/pics/0adbb1199c.jpg

100 Lux (IXON IQ Speed)
http://www.bumm.de/typo3temp/pics/30959054c9.jpg

140 Lux (Big Bang HiD)
http://www.bumm.de/typo3temp/pics/199b2e843f.jpg

I have been looking at the Lyt too. But I'm coming from the other end of the scale.

I have a Planet Bike dynamo LED and was thinking of adding more light for another bike. Looking at the beam patterns here, seems like the Lyt would not be much better than the Spanninga Luceo or even my PB light.

I was thinking that the IQ Fly at $93 would be a very good upgrade, rather than the Lyt.

Note: I travel in the 12-15mph range at night, occasionally on dark MUPs, but actually feel safer on even dimly lit streets after dark.

Having thought about it I have changed my mind. I think I will go with the Cyo R. What swung it is not the amount of light, as I think the Lyt would be enough for me, but the clarity of the road surface. Looking at the above shots you can see far more detail with the other lights, the Lyt seems to blur it together.

Why the Cyo R over the Fly? There seems to be a $25 price difference. The CYO R looks better, but other than that?

[Edit] I see the answer from the Peter White site. The IQ Fly is slighter older, little less bright.


The IQ CYO is Busch & Müller's update to the IQ Fly for 2009. The IQ Fly is still available, and a great value. But if you want an even brighter headlight, the CYO is what you want. It uses a higher power LED than the IQ Fly, and has a large heat sink to keep the LED cool. The lower the operating temperature of the LED, the brighter it runs. The CYO keeps up with the big boys in the battle for brightest dynamo headlight.

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp