Commuting - Should I get studded tires for winter cycling?

I seem to be getting conflicting advice about whether to get studded tires for commutting in the city during winter. Some say it's not necessary since city roads are typically cleared of snow and ice and you ride slower anyway so its fine. Other people are saying it is essential to riding safely in the winter. Any opinions here?

Depends. Where do you live? How often do you expect to commute in the snow and ice? Do you have health insurance and disability insurance to cover you if you fall, break some bones and can't work?

In my case, I live in a Great Lakes city, with lake-effect snow from two lakes which gives us measurable snow almost daily for three months straight. I don't own a car, so I commute by bike daily. And I don't have health or disability insurance. I wouldn't do it without studded tires. They're far cheaper than spending six to eight weeks in a cast and out of work.

Remember, unlike cars where getting the thing moving is the reason for snow tires, with bikes, preventing falls is the reason for studded tires.

Depends. Where do you live? How often do you expect to commute in the snow and ice? Do you have health insurance and disability insurance to cover you if you fall, break some bones and can't work?

In my case, I live in a Great Lakes city, with lake-effect snow from two lakes which gives us measurable snow almost daily for three months straight. I don't own a car, so I commute by bike daily. And I don't have health or disability insurance. I wouldn't do it without studded tires. They're far cheaper than spending six to eight weeks in a cast and out of work.

Remember, unlike cars where getting the thing moving is the reason for snow tires, with bikes, preventing falls is the reason for studded tires.


This pretty much says it all.

Some say it's not necessary since city roads are typically cleared of snow and ice

Key word: "typically."


and you ride slower anyway so its fine.

You can break bones falling down while you're stopped. Forward speed's not the main problem, it's downward speed ;)

I'd play it safe and get high-quality studded tires (Nokian, for example). Got my own pair of new Nokain Extremes waiting in the closet for signs of frost or snow.

If you have to ride in snow or ice, get studded tires for ice, knobby tires for snow, and knobby studded tires for snow and ice. You will likely get more useful information if we know where you live and what conditions you ride in.

Whatever happened to the good old "Trial and Error" means of testing?

Why not test w/o studded, and if you feel the need, then you can always buy some!

Some say it's not necessary since city roads are typically cleared of snow and ice
Around here they don't really plow the snow so much as give it a haircut. Many roads only see a plow close to the end of winter so they can prevent flooding during the melt.

My city is good about plowing after a snowfall, but I will not consider riding without my studded tires once the mercury dips below freezing.

Depends. Where do you live? How often do you expect to commute in the snow and ice? Do you have health insurance and disability insurance to cover you if you fall, break some bones and can't work?

In my case, I live in a Great Lakes city, with lake-effect snow from two lakes which gives us measurable snow almost daily for three months straight. I don't own a car, so I commute by bike daily. And I don't have health or disability insurance. I wouldn't do it without studded tires. They're far cheaper than spending six to eight weeks in a cast and out of work.

Remember, unlike cars where getting the thing moving is the reason for snow tires, with bikes, preventing falls is the reason for studded tires.

Yeah, that says most of it.

I think it's kind of funny, actually, that we feel a need to define not wanting to break limbs in terms of monetary value. I don't want to break a bone not because of my job, but just because I don't want to break a bone. :D

Studs are for ice, not snow. They won't help at all with snow. But they do make it possible to ride across an ice skating rink on your bike regularly including making turns and such - one wouldn't ride "aggressively", but fairly normally. I've done it at least twice, just to show off, lol.

Some people do aggressive mountain biking knowing they'll break a few bones. Some people are professional bike racers and they pretty much live with the prospect that they will break a bone somewhere in their career.

But I'm to risk averse to willingly take a sizeable risk doing a recreational activity so I ride with studs from the first snowfall or freezing rain well into spring until there's no ice under bridges, the part of the path where it's in the woods, etc.

Of course I live in Minnesota - once ice gets here it stays around quite a while. It might be different in other states, I don't know. I know in some places it just rains (though you probably wouldn't be asking if you lived there), in other places apparently it snows but melts right away and ice pretty much never forms. Where I am there's ice all winter and I just don't see the point in taking the risk.

Depends. Where do you live? How often do you expect to commute in the snow and ice? Do you have health insurance and disability insurance to cover you if you fall, break some bones and can't work?

In my case, I live in a Great Lakes city, with lake-effect snow from two lakes which gives us measurable snow almost daily for three months straight. I don't own a car, so I commute by bike daily. And I don't have health or disability insurance. I wouldn't do it without studded tires. They're far cheaper than spending six to eight weeks in a cast and out of work.

Remember, unlike cars where getting the thing moving is the reason for snow tires, with bikes, preventing falls is the reason for studded tires.

I live in Toronto so we do sometimes get very snowy winters but most of the time it's pretty dry and you do get black ice on the roads. They use a lot of salt and sand on the streets as well. I think regardless of whether I have any kind of insurance I'm more interested in preventing myself from getting hurt altogether.

I want to be safe but I don't want to go overboard and spend money if I don't have too. I'm not trying to be cheap, it's just that this is my first time riding in the winter and I don't know what to expect.

Thanks for the advice.

It's worth mentioning that good studded tires will last for several seasons. If you happen to use 26" wheels, the Nokian Mount & Ground is worth a look.

I live in Toronto and I cycle everyday in the winter and I have yet to use studs but that is going to change for this winter. Every year I take at least one big tumble and it is always on ice. The older I get the more it hurts when I hit the ground. Last year was the final year with knobby tires when I fell twice. I also met a guy who fell on the first icy day and broke his leg last year.

Of course we have Universal Health Care since we are Canadian, so that is taken care of. I even have great insurance at work, so I will get paid if I get hurt but I don't want to get hurt. I have broken my leg before, it's not fun and it hurts.

This year it will all change and I am getting studs. Since I cycle along the lake to downtown there is lots of freeze and refreeze which screams out for studs. Yes, commuting can be done with out them but if you cycle everyday and don't want to take chances, buy the studs.

Studs provide an excellent peace of mind.

Studs are for ice, not snow. They won't help at all with snow.To OP, it's important to keep this in mind. Another thing to consider is, it's impossible to tell what's beneath a fresh layer of snow. It can be bare pavement (in which case you wouldn't need studs), it could be ice, it could be hard packed snow that in terms of grip is practically the same as ice. Some days I get all of these.

When I choose studded vs. not in the morning, I want to err on the safe side. That calls for good quality studs (in my case Nokian W106 tyres), so I don't have to worry about wearing them out on the occasional bare pavement patch. I suspect for most commuters it's nearly impossible to completely avoid mixed conditions, especially if you have more than just a few kilometers to ride.

--J

If your community does a decent job of clearing snow, then maybe you don't need snow tires. I don't use them, but we typically don't get enough snow to justify it.

However, they can never do enough to guarantee that I won't hit icy patches. For that reason, I use studded tires.

If you plan to ride through the winter and you get snow and ice or even rain that might freeze overnight, then don't make the mistake of thinking how the roads are usually fine. It's when they are not fine that makes a difference when you're on two wheels. Believe me, when your front wheel suddenly goes out from under you, you can get hurt pretty badly.

I live in Toronto so we do sometimes get very snowy winters

You get considerably less snow on the northern side of the lake. Lots more sun too.

Anyone try out the Schwalbe Marathon Winters? I've been thinking about buying those to try out for my first winter of cycling. Hell I'm not really sure I'm going to stick with it though...

I tried to ride every week last year without studded tires. The risk of falling on ice kept me off the road about 50% of the time. Like tsl said, the risk of injury is not acceptable.

This year I'll have 700x35 studded tires on a second set of wheels. Anytime ice is along the shoulder, I'll use studded tires. If mild weather persists and the roads are clear, I'll easily install the second wheelset with studless tires.

Michael

As a minneapolis winter rider, To me the price I pay for having studs (weight, rolling resistance, cost) is well worth it for not having to pick myself up off the ground. They certainly aren't a guarantee but for me and my route there is no question they reduce the risk and have saved my a** more times than I can remember.

I think the most dangerous season of all is spring. The melt/thaw cycle that happens everyday is unpredictable and treacherous. In the morning it's sheer ice, or black ice, in the afternoon it's puddles until the snow is all gone. Not only that but that the urge to take the studs off the bike after a long winter is almost unbearable by that point which I'll admit has caused me to make some poor choices in the past.

This year I'm seriously considering 2 winter bikes, a fat bike (surly pugsly) for my main winter bike, and keeping the Cross Check mounted with studs for the icy days.

i live in chicago where we have a very aggressive fleet of plow/salt trucks that actually do a pretty decent job of keeping streets clear in the winter, but i still wouldn't want to ride in ice season without studs. i can get by without super knobby snow tires because i very rarely have to deal with deep snow, but ice can be anywhere.

one caution about studded tires: if ice is a threat, do not inflate your studded tires to their max pressure. as i found last winter, the greater the pressure in a studded tire, the less effective the studs are (they can't dig into the ice as well). i was rolling my schwalbe snow studs at around 65psi (max recommended) and i want down hard on a patch of black ice.

In my town, ice stays very short. We often have mild winters. I was thinking of getting just a 2nd pair of wheels, to see which ones to fit every morning, depending on the situation. I would probably use the studded tyre ones for about 10 days each winter month. Is it a good idea? Getting another winter bike is a bit too much I think.

You get considerably less snow on the northern side of the lake. Lots more sun too.
I dunno about that... last year here in London we got 200 cm (79 inches) of snow just from Dec. 5th to the 9th, and we're just down the road apiece from T.O.

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Anyone try out the Schwalbe Marathon Winters? I've been thinking about buying those to try out for my first winter of cycling. Hell I'm not really sure I'm going to stick with it though...
That's what I use, and they're great tires. I originally wanted some Nokian W240s for their more aggressive tread blocks, but the wouldn't fit under my fenders. I thought about getting a set of W106s, but I didn't like how the studs run only down the center of the the tire. The Marathon Winters turned out to be the ideal tire for my commute. Sure, they were inadequate for the huge dump of snow we got over those few days last year, but then again motorists were getting stranded on the highways and needed to be rescued by snowmobiles, so I felt no guilt about parking my bike and calling in a "snow day". For 95% of my winter commuting the Schwalbes perform flawlessly and (knock on wood) they've kept me upright for two winters so far.

Anyone try out the Schwalbe Marathon Winters? I've been thinking about buying those to try out for my first winter of cycling. Hell I'm not really sure I'm going to stick with it though...

I got a set of the Marathon Winters last year. They do awesome on ice, but have lots of trouble with snow. They do roll pretty well on recently plowed roads and dry pavement. If you come upon some snow more than 1/2" deep they slide and float all over the place unless it's the very light, powdery stuff. I would not recommend them for areas that get much snow. They are perfect for places that get ice and an occasional dusting. I'm thinking of trying a different studded tire with actual knobs this season.

Depends on where you live. Around here, we have a freeze and thaw cycle, which results in all snow having an ice layer below it.

The tires I use, Nokiam W-106, are both knobby and studded, as opposed to my Marathon Plus summer tires, which are essentially smooth, with minimal tread.

The benefits of winter tires are 1) not falling down on ice and 2) being able to go uphill in snow.

I put mine on in early December and take them off in early March. That means that most of my riding is on clear pavement. Even so, the pair I bought ten years ago have lasted until this season, or about 6,000 miles.

Safety, convenience, and economics all make a good case for them.

Paul

Thanks guys for all your advice. I think I will get a pair of studded tires after the first snowfall. I don't really want to swap out my tires since I have a hub dynamo and an internal hub, it would be too much work. On the streets of Toronto I will have some snow, some ice, and mostly slushy/dry asphalt. Any recommendation for a tire for these conditions? I have a hybrid size tire (not sure what the actual size is).

I got a set of the Marathon Winters last year. They do awesome on ice, but have lots of trouble with snow. They do roll pretty well on recently plowed roads and dry pavement. If you come upon some snow more than 1/2" deep they slide and float all over the place unless it's the very light, powdery stuff.

lol, you think that now because you haven't tried other tires.

The bottom line is that once there's significant snow unfortunately all bike tires suck. I have Nokian Extremes 1.9 inch in the 26" variety, knobby studded mountain bike tire, and they aren't great in snow either. Even the king of snow tires the Surley Pugsley can become unrideable in 6 inches of snow (if you get just the wrong mixture of snow, in other cases they hand handle a foot or two of snow). It really depends on the snow quality / temp / depth / how packed it is. My Schwalbe Marathon Winters I've ridden in like 6 inches of really fresh snow, that's about their limit. However, get even one inch of packed down snow and they're somewhere between very difficult and useless...unless it's really, really packed down then they're not so bad...

Unfortunately bike tires on snow are like car tires on ice - they only range from "really terrible" to "not quite as terrible but not great". :-(

As a minneapolis winter rider...this year I'm seriously considering 2 winter bikes, a fat bike (surly pugsly) for my main winter bike, and keeping the Cross Check mounted with studs for the icy days.

lol, yeah me to. I heard from a local shop here in minneapolis claims that this year they would actually make a studded pugsley tire - here's hoping it actually happens... :D

i live in chicago where we have a very aggressive fleet of plow/salt trucks that actually do a pretty decent job of keeping streets clear in the winter, but i still wouldn't want to ride in ice season without studs. i can get by without super knobby snow tires because i very rarely have to deal with deep snow, but ice can be anywhere.

one caution about studded tires: if ice is a threat, do not inflate your studded tires to their max pressure. as i found last winter, the greater the pressure in a studded tire, the less effective the studs are (they can't dig into the ice as well). i was rolling my schwalbe snow studs at around 65psi (max recommended) and i want down hard on a patch of black ice.With the snow stud model, the studs are in only 2 lines towards the edge, unless you run lower pressure, they won't engage as much when running straight. With something like the Marathon Winter model, they have 4 lines of studs, so lower pressures are less needed.

Thanks guys for all your advice. I think I will get a pair of studded tires after the first snowfall. I don't really want to swap out my tires since I have a hub dynamo and an internal hub, it would be too much work. On the streets of Toronto I will have some snow, some ice, and mostly slushy/dry asphalt. Any recommendation for a tire for these conditions? I have a hybrid size tire (not sure what the actual size is).

This should answer Mithrandir's question as well - there are two good options for a "skinny" (35c) studded winter tire -

1. The Schwalbe Marathon Winter's have a reputation for being the fastest rolling fully studded tire you can buy. Another cool thing about them is you can adjust their rolling resistance by adjusting the air pressure - inflated to 60psi or so the outer row of studs doesn't come into contact with the ground though you still have the middle row of studs - this is what I use in the spring where most of the snow is gone but there's still some random ice patches left. But they aren't cheap.

2. For a cheaper alternative the Nokian w106's have a good reputation as well. The marathon winter's have a rep for being a little faster rolling. But the Nokian's are much cheaper, and still have a good reputation for keeping one up on ice.

3. Do *NOT* buy the cheap Innova studded tires. They use steels studs which wear down far before the tire itself wears out - one day you're fine on ice, the next the studs have worn out and you suddenly and unexpectedly have no grip. The Nokians and Schwalbe's use "carbide" studs that have a reputation for not wearing out until after the tire itself is completely worn out.

4. There are some cheaper and lower stud count tires like the Schwalbe Snow Studs and the Nokian A10's. However, their stud count is very low and here in Minnesota more than one person has said they found the stud count wasn't high enough to always stay upright on the ice we get here. They *might* be fine for keeping you from falling over on well plowed streets, but personally I prefer to just get the Schwalbe Marathon Winter's which I know will do the job.

With the snow stud model, the studs are in only 2 lines towards the edge, unless you run lower pressure, they won't engage as much when running straight. With something like the Marathon Winter model, they have 4 lines of studs, so lower pressures are less needed.

yeah, that makes some sense. i'm thinking about dropping the coin to get some marathon winters for the upcoming season this year. my main enemy in chicago is ice, and the stud count/location on the schwalbe snow studs is probably not where it should be for my purposes (though the deeper tread depth of the snow stud probably performs better than the marathon winter in actual snow).


anyone want a pair of lightly-used 26" schwalbe snow studs on the cheap? ;)

Whatever happened to the good old "Trial and Error" means of testing?

Why not test w/o studded, and if you feel the need, then you can always buy some!

^^ this - don't spend money on stuff you don't even know that you need.

While I do have a bike with studded tires that is used specifically for commuting on icy days, those days (or days with a good risk of ice) are in the minority and I end up on one of my other bikes the majority of the time in any but the worst of winters.

FYI, studs are for ice...a decent knobby will do you fine on snow-packed streets.

If you're choosing Schwalbe,

These for regular commuting:

Marathon Winter
http://www.schwalbetires.com/files/l_img_marathon-winter_08.gif

For deeper more aggressive needs:

Ice Spiker Pro
http://www.schwalbetires.com/files/l_img_ice-spiker-pro_08.gif

I agree wholeheartedly with not buying something you don't need. However, getting sound advice from those who have been through it before is not a bad idea when "trial and error" methods have possible consequences on the error side of the equation.

I agree wholeheartedly with not buying something you don't need. However, getting sound advice from those who have been through it before is not a bad idea when "trial and error" methods have possible consequences on the error side of the equation.

lol, yeah, "wait until you need it" is pretty crazy advice for ice and studs. You'll know you needed to have studs when you - break your arm? Now to be fair all falls in winter by no means result in a broken limb. Just some do. I have known people who have fallen on ice and not had anything break for sure. I've...also known people to fall at low speeds and break their hip (yes, a close relative of mine had that happen during the summer).

during a normal winter I would really like to have studs on one or two days. There are people around here that have them, but I haven't talked myself into it yet. We simply don't have snow that stays around long enough to form a decent ice layer. Of course, I probably just jinxed myself

Any recommendation for a tire for these conditions? I have a hybrid size tire (not sure what the actual size is).

That could be anything, including 26" and 700c size wheels and 28 to 38mm wide tires. What model bike?

lol, yeah, "wait until you need it" is pretty crazy advice for ice and studs. You'll know you needed to have studs when you - break your arm? Now to be fair all falls in winter by no means result in a broken limb. Just some do. I have known people who have fallen on ice and not had anything break for sure. I've...also known people to fall at low speeds and break their hip (yes, a close relative of mine had that happen during the summer).

oh for chris sake....nobody said to wait until he needs it...the advice was to "not spend on something you don't know you need". Do you know the risk of ice on his route? Dontcha think he does...or will...and can figure it out for himself without going out and killing himself? Or are you assuming that he is too stupid to read everything that has been written here and will just go didi bopping out on an icy road on slicks because, hey, he wants to see if he can do it? Geesh.

oh for chris sake....nobody said to wait until he needs it...the advice was to "not spend on something you don't know you need". Do you know the risk of ice on his route? Dontcha think he does...or will...and can figure it out for himself without going out and killing himself? Or are you assuming that he is too stupid to read everything that has been written here and will just go didi bopping out on an icy road on slicks because, hey, he wants to see if he can do it? Geesh.

Wow, nice attempt at trying to make me look like I said anything bad about the OP.


Whatever happened to the good old "Trial and Error" means of testing?

Why not test w/o studded, and if you feel the need, then you can always buy some!

That advice sounded me exactly like it was saying "go out and ride without studs then buy studs if something bad happens".

"Why not test w/o studded, and if you feel the need, then you can always buy some!"

This (above) was suggested, and agreed with. Once this was stated it became a valid point, that asking those who have commuted/ridden in OP's locale/climate about what they've experienced might be useful. Or am I missing something here?

Now, the opinions that are going to be expressed may merely be a validation of one's own actions and not an expression of what's truly necessary but the OP is likely smart enough to take all of this into account, and make their own decision.

It's worth mentioning that good studded tires will last for several seasons. If you happen to use 26" wheels, the Nokian Mount & Ground is worth a look.

I have a pair I got in 91, they're still fine.. .
the single row of studs work on mixed bare and icy roads.

I used to have them in a bag, and put them on the bike when needed.

now I have a different bike I ride Most when the Celsius is above zero.

Snow Cat rims are 45 mm wide , the 1.9" tire takes on a D cross section, then.

and Drum brake hubs are a perfect match, for icy conditions..

I have a quick question. If I get a set of studded tires and new wheels to mount them on (so I can change wheels easier), do I have to get a new cassette? How feasible would it be to switch the cassette over each time I want to switch rear wheels? I'm talking 26" wheels, Acera rear derailleur, 14-28 7 speed with "MegaRange". I'd rather not get a new cassette because it'll be a lot newer than the rest of the drivetrain.

I have a quick question. If I get a set of studded tires and new wheels to mount them on (so I can change wheels easier), do I have to get a new cassette? How feasible would it be to switch the cassette over each time I want to switch rear wheels? I'm talking 26" wheels, Acera rear derailleur, 14-28 7 speed with "MegaRange". I'd rather not get a new cassette because it'll be a lot newer than the rest of the drivetrain.

Yeah...that's always been my problem with switching both wheels to. I don't entirely trust what they said, but my local shop said running a worn chain with new chainrings would just wear down the new chainrings really fast.

I have a quick question. If I get a set of studded tires and new wheels to mount them on (so I can change wheels easier), do I have to get a new cassette? How feasible would it be to switch the cassette over each time I want to switch rear wheels? I'm talking 26" wheels, Acera rear derailleur, 14-28 7 speed with "MegaRange". I'd rather not get a new cassette because it'll be a lot newer than the rest of the drivetrain.

It makes sense to get a cassette also: http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_509008_-1_202311_10000_202356 plus http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_200421_-1_201811_10000_202422 for about $100 plus shipping.

I have a quick question. If I get a set of studded tires and new wheels to mount them on (so I can change wheels easier), do I have to get a new cassette? How feasible would it be to switch the cassette over each time I want to switch rear wheels? I'm talking 26" wheels, Acera rear derailleur, 14-28 7 speed with "MegaRange". I'd rather not get a new cassette because it'll be a lot newer than the rest of the drivetrain.

You can change the cassette but at that point you might as well skip the separate wheelset and just change the tire.

To me a separate wheelset only makes sense if they save you significant time. If the rims are a different width, the braking surface is in a little different place, or your cogs aren't in the same position relative to the derailleur, then you spend more time adjusting brakes and shifting than you save but not changing a tire.

What some people do is only run a studded tire in the front. I'm not recommending that necessarily, but it's cheaper and easier to switch out one wheel vs two.

Niagara has a great deal on Marathon Winters: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001K72VO0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true

I'm on my 4th season with my pair; I've lost maybe 4 studs out of like 500.

4. There are some cheaper and lower stud count tires like the Schwalbe Snow Studs and the Nokian A10's. However, their stud count is very low and here in Minnesota more than one person has said they found the stud count wasn't high enough to always stay upright on the ice we get here. They *might* be fine for keeping you from falling over on well plowed streets, but personally I prefer to just get the Schwalbe Marathon Winter's which I know will do the job.

Have you actually ridden on Schwalbe Snow Studs ?? Or are you just talking out of your ass. I personally own those tires in two different sizes. I have the 700x38 which I use for commuting and I also have the 26x1.9 which I have mounted on some wide rims for singletrack and off road riding. I used to run Nokian Extremes and I think that the Snow Stud has much better grip and traction in snow and more then sufficient grip on ice if your tire pressure is correct and if you have good riding skills Also much faster on bare pavement.

Niagara has a great deal on Marathon Winters: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001K72VO0?ie=UTF8&redirect=true


thanks to this thread, i just ordered a pair of marathon winters from biketiresdirect.com for $115. and because they're worth double VIP points right now, i'll get 25 bucks of my next BTD.com order, effectively making my purchase of the marathon winters $40/tire. not bad at all.

Have you actually ridden on Schwalbe Snow Studs ?? Or are you just talking out of your ass. I personally own those tires in two different sizes. I have the 700x38 which I use for commuting and I also have the 26x1.9 which I have mounted on some wide rims for singletrack and off road riding. I used to run Nokian Extremes and I think that the Snow Stud has much better grip and traction in snow and more then sufficient grip on ice if your tire pressure is correct and if you have good riding skills Also much faster on bare pavement.

Feel free to post when you've actually ridden the tires.

I'm in Boston most of the winter.

Once the first night falls below 32〫F I've got my dedicated winter commuter bike ready to roll. Nokian studded tires on an old Specialized Mountain bike.

For me it's the ice factor.

I often ride home late at night (after 11 pm) if it's been wet at all and I'm booking along at night black ice is an issue. If the weather's been dry, I don't care how cold it is, I'll ride my regular commuter. Before using studs every winter I'd take one good fall and be off the bike for a week or two partly to recover and partly out of fear of falling again. Since I got the studs I might miss 4 or 5 days of bike commuting in total due to a deep snowfall but never due to ice or cold temps. And, knock wood, no falling.

Yes you should, because one day there will be ice at the bottom of that hill or around a corner that wasn't there last night or this morning(you'll spot it too late). Your ass is going down hard if you don't have studded tires.

I like the studded tires. Marathon winter 700 C X 35 front and Happekelitta 106 700C X 35 on rear.