Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - Are distance riders independently wealthy?

I mean if some of you ride hours and hours at a time, are some of you jobless?

Being retired works for me.

I've often wondered the same thing. I'm in my mid 30's with 2 little kids, a wife and a full time job. I probably average 2 rides per week. Three in a week is heavenly. Even finding time to train for and ride a century is a big challenge. I planned on doing 3 this year and have only gotten one done (for a variety of reasons). I've become pretty good at finding those chunks of time to fit in rides but I always have to balance riding with my many other responsibilities.

Are distance riders independently wealthy?

:lol: Yeah right!! :lol: In my dreams!!

Most of the years I've been riding long distances I've held down 1 fulltime (45+ hours per week) job + night classes, or 1 fulltime (45+ hours per week) and 1 part time (16+ hours per week) job, or fulltime university and 1 part time (16+ hours per week) job, or some variation of that.

It's a welcome break on the occasions when I just have 1 fulltime (45+ hours per week) job.


But I don't understand why you would think the only way we can cycle lots is if we're jobless.

Let's do the math:


A week has 168 hours.
Work takes up 50 hours (including preparing for it, getting there, etc.)

That leaves 118 hours each week.
Let's say we sleep 8 hours/night = 56 hours

That leaves 62 hours a week.
Let's knock off another 12 hours for things like eating and doing some household tasks.

And now we've got 50 hours/week for cycling.

Even at my slower speeds of about 18 km/h that's still a potential of 900 km/week.

Of course, I rarely do that much in a week, but the potential is there. :)

And there are these great things called "weekends" where we could potentially start riding early Saturday morning and keep riding until later Sunday evening.

There are also even better things called "holidays" ... I try to take at least a month off every year in holiday time. I think I've managed to do that every year but one in the last decade. When I've done 1200K randonnees, I do them during my holiday time, and I try to book long weekends for 400Ks and over.

It's called time management. I have a friend who averages about 20,000 miles/year. Full time job, wife, two kids. I do some volunteer work, and the saying is, if you are looking for a volunteer, ask someone who's really busy. They're already good at finding the time.

Example: So you get up a little earlier and do a creative commute that's about 30 miles. If you're doing 20,000 miles/year, you can knock that off in 2 hours, even in traffic. I know people who commute for that long in a car. If you have an hour lunch, you can get in another 15 miles. Then 30 miles home. On the weekend, you can ride a century or 200k on one day and do family on the other. Add it up.

Far from it. I wish I had more money so I could afford to travel to all the events I want to do.

I focus mainly on one-day events, so all it really takes is one day a week to focus on a long ride. The rest of the week can be spent doing 1-2 hour rides as a mixture of intervals and recovery. Like Carbonfiberboy said, commuting is a good way to get that time in. Otherwise, how much time a day does the average guy with a job and a family spend watching TV or things like that? It just takes some commitment, time management, and an understanding family.

I cyclo-commute. It's great for recovery rides and interval training. And hills, when I can detour to hit a few good ones (man, I need more hill time).


Weekends, I can usually carve out a morning for one good ride - 100k only takes 4 hours, including prep time and showering afterwards. I get home from a Saturday morning ride like that and half my family is still in their pajamas.

Can almost always get at least one weekend a month for a 200k. Well, I'm determined to get a 200k in per month, at least till I get my R12.

I've done the LD stuff I've wanted to do (brevet distances up to 600K) on 5 to 6 hours of training a week. The events themselves chew up some time, but getting ready for them doesn't really. I know a lot of recreational riders who put more saddle time in than me and would never think of doing this stuff. The best kept secret of LD is that it's not really all that hard.

Generally, the tendency I see is to not have kids at home, and to not have a spouse interested in doing anything else- so either your spouse is in it too, or else they don't much care about being together. That also helps on the money end. Bikes are expensive, but so is a lot of travel and motel rooms. Being single with a good job or married where both work are the trend there.

It's amazing how much more time you have in your day when you don't own a television.
And it's amazing how much riding you can get in when a bicycle is your primary mode of tranportation.

Yep ... the years I rode the most were the years where I didn't own a vehicle.

I commuted 13.6 km round trip by bicycle 5 days a week most of the year. (13.6 * 5 days * ~40 weeks = 2720 km/year just in commuting). Then during the warmer months, I'd stop at home to drop off my work stuff, change bicycles, grab a quick snack, and then keep riding till dark or later.

And one of those years, my TV died in late April/early May and I didn't get it fixed until October. I figured I wasn't going to be around to watch TV anyway, I'd be out cycling instead ... and that's exactly what I did.


Now my commute is 3.2 km/day ... and I walk it 5 days a week, year round, totalling over 800 km of walking each year.

I wish i could commute to work - Its 20 miles each way, but we have no shower on site, nearest gym/shower is 4 miles away and I have to wear a suit at least 4 days per week, and generally have to drive from OC to LA twice a week... I am certainly not as much of a LD rider as many on here - 100 miles is my max to date - but I can usually get in 20 per day at 5:00 a.m., and 75 to 100+ on the weekend (3 kids under 9 and a wife who doesn't work or cycle)

I wish i could commute to work - Its 20 miles each way, but we have no shower on site, nearest gym/shower is 4 miles away and I have to wear a suit at least 4 days per week

Baby wipes

It's called time management. I have a friend who averages about 20,000 miles/year. Full time job, wife, two kids. I do some volunteer work, and the saying is, if you are looking for a volunteer, ask someone who's really busy. They're already good at finding the time.

Example: So you get up a little earlier and do a creative commute that's about 30 miles. If you're doing 20,000 miles/year, you can knock that off in 2 hours, even in traffic. I know people who commute for that long in a car. If you have an hour lunch, you can get in another 15 miles. Then 30 miles home. On the weekend, you can ride a century or 200k on one day and do family on the other. Add it up.

When I add it up, I don't see much family time - 8 hours sleep + 8 hours work + 4 hours commute = 4 hours a day for meals, household chores, and family time.

Mike

Being retired works for me.

This post makes sense.

When I add it up, I don't see much family time - 8 hours sleep + 8 hours work + 4 hours commute = 4 hours a day for meals, household chores, and family time.

Mike

Honestly... 4 hours a day is probably above average for time spent with family.

And meals ... well, breakfast is 'husband/wife time', lunch is @ my desk while working (technically, I eat 2-3 snacks/meals, not a 'lunch'), and dinner is 'family time'.

You prioritize what's important.

60 miles a day would be a lot of commuting for someone who also does a long ride on the weekend. I'd be afraid of burning out at that rate. I did ~30 miles a day for a while and that was about as high as I'd want to go.

When I add it up, I don't see much family time - 8 hours sleep + 8 hours work + 4 hours commute = 4 hours a day for meals, household chores, and family time.

MikeOf course my friend is an outlier. It's completely unnecessary to ride 20,000 miles/year. 200 miles/week is enough for an ultra racer, so that's "only" 10,000, and one doesn't even need to do that year 'round, so say 7000 miles/year, which is probably 450 hours including gym time. I think that's a good number if one wants to finish in the top tier on long brevets. Plenty of family time if you kill your TV.

What do most people do during "family time" anyway?

A large part of "family time" for me and my family when I was growing up ... and again now that Rowan and I are a family ... was and is spent riding bicycles.

Or if not riding bicycles, then engaging in other sporting activities like cross-country skiing, hiking, long walks, canoeing, golf, etc. ... all of which have in the past, and still do, allow me to both spend time with my family and help keep me in shape for cycling. :)

Baby wipes

I better get the Costco size carton of wipes.

What do most people do during "family time" anyway?

A large part of "family time" for me and my family when I was growing up ... and again now that Rowan and I are a family ... was and is spent riding bicycles.

Or if not riding bicycles, then engaging in other sporting activities like cross-country skiing, hiking, long walks, canoeing, golf, etc. ... all of which have in the past, and still do, allow me to both spend time with my family and help keep me in shape for cycling. :)

Agreed that if your family rides with you, then cycling time is family time. That's what I would call "optimal".

Of course my friend is an outlier. It's completely unnecessary to ride 20,000 miles/year. 200 miles/week is enough for an ultra racer, so that's "only" 10,000, and one doesn't even need to do that year 'round, so say 7000 miles/year, which is probably 450 hours including gym time. I think that's a good number if one wants to finish in the top tier on long brevets. Plenty of family time if you kill your TV.

450 hours a year = 8 hours or so a week. That's a reasonable goal for time.

Being retired works for me.

2008 = 890 Hours road riding.
2009 = 1232 hrs
2010 = 749 hrs

I better get the Costco size carton of wipes.

Or try Safari Towels (http://shop.antimonkeybutt.com/products/Safari-Towels.html). They're like baby wipes on steroids.

I trained for my first 200K by commuting 3-4 days a week, about 20 miles a day. Occasional 40 milers on the weekends. It's not that bad if you have a comfortable setup. When I finished my 200K, my legs felt great, it was my butt that was sore. I see a Brooks saddle in my future.

Disposable income is at it highest between 45-54. At that age the kids are often out of the house and don't need 24/7. Time and money; it's no surprise the median age at Paris Brest Paris is 50 and 67% are between 40 and 60.

What do most people do during "family time" anyway?

Change diapers :p

Actually, I'm trying to convince my wife that when the kids get older we should get a pair of triples. We'd fit the entire family onto two bikes!

Semi retirement is great. It means I can take the time for a 20-30 mile mid day ride most days. I'm hoping, next year, to make it, less semi for more riding.

Not independently wealthy--just independent (no wife/gf, kids, pets) with a full time job.

I do have a "team" of sorts:

http://www.endomondo.com/challenges/2542272 - Cyclists and Runners in Pursuit of Cold Beer

And, I'm on the "Leader Board":

http://www.endomondo.com/teams/1837249

Not independantly wealthy either, but no wife/kids, and only a girlfriend who encourages me and a cat that doesn't care gives me a lot of freedom, oh and being self employed helps a lot!

I don't know about everyone else, but randonneuring, in my experience, takes SIGNIFICANTLY less time and money than racing bikes at even a cat three level. Event entry fees are dirt cheap, aside from a few 1200ks. You generally don't end up traveling every weekend like many racers do. Unless you're really trying to be fast you don't actually have to ride as much as serious training requires. The bikes and equipment don't need to be as specialized as racing equipment, and the risk of damage to expensive parts is much less.

Compared to most forms of organized cycling, randonneuring is almost certainly the cheapest per mile.

With that said, my trip to PBP was certainly very expensive, but it was worth every penny as the experience was amazing and very unique to that event and location.

I wish i could commute to work - Its 20 miles each way, but we have no shower on site, nearest gym/shower is 4 miles away and I have to wear a suit at least 4 days per week, and generally have to drive from OC to LA twice a week... I am certainly not as much of a LD rider as many on here - 100 miles is my max to date - but I can usually get in 20 per day at 5:00 a.m., and 75 to 100+ on the weekend (3 kids under 9 and a wife who doesn't work or cycle)
I was in that situation once. Fortunately, I had a co-worker who wanted to go for long runs during her lunch hour and we found an extra janitor's closet with a sink. For about $150 we converted this room to a shower stall (a platform and an RV shower plus a little plumbing). Maybe you have some similar underutilized space at work? Check it out; you might get lucky.

I mean if some of you ride hours and hours at a time, are some of you jobless? Many distance riders have what many people consider "unbalanced" lives. What I mean by this, is that the easiest way to develop a large capacity for endurance exercise is by performing that exercise, a lot! Often this includes ignoring family and shirking full time jobs.

But while it is true, that people who train smartly can manage a full-time job and some other activities, it is also true that many of people who repeatedly attend long distance events - and do well at them - can do so because they simply spend a lot of time involved with riding their bikes.

However, my own experience contradicts much of my previous statements. I happened to develop my tremendous level of endurance fitness as a result of commuting by bicycle as often as possible. (but my case was rare - I worked at multiple locations) Fifteen years later I still "won" distance events while working full time - mostly because I had already learned how to target my important distance training on weekends and maximize my diet and in-house "trainer" training after work on week-days.

But yes, in general endurance events and fitness are time consuming recreational activities.

Like the t-shirt says....

Front: "My wife says if I ride another endurance race she'll leave me."
Back: "God i'll miss her."

Or ... in several instances I know of ... both husband and wife ride long distances. One of the interesting things about the Manitoba Randonneurs was that there were two tandem couples, two couples who rode singles, two or three unattached guys, and me. That was the whole club. Most of the club were couples who rode the long distances together.

(Oh, and everyone held down a full-time job ... jobs in a wide variety of fields)

As rudetay points out, the long distance riding doesn't really take up much time at all in comparison with something like racing.

Again, in Manitoba, there were 5 rides early in the season ... two 200Ks, and one each of 300K, 400K, and 600K. They were all run every other weekend starting mid-April and ending in early June. And for most of the randonneurs there, that was it. Maybe 2 months of riding long distances each year.

Or ... in several instances I know of ... both husband and wife ride long distances.

That would the critical part - if my wife was interested in riding with me, then riding time becomes "family time". That would be very nice.

Rowan and I met at the PBP, and got to know each other on other 1200Ks etc. ... so when we married, we knew we were both interested in riding long distances.

And just this past February, we bought a tandem and have done numerous centuries on it. We had borrowed a tandem for several months before that and did a 200K, 300K, and several other long distances with it.

Riding together on singles is a good way to spend time together and talk, but riding the tandem just makes it that much easier. :)

It's a great way to unwind in the evenings after work ... come home, head out on a ride and rehash the insanity that goes on during a day's work. And then relax for the rest of the evening.

Actually, the key reason I'm no longer an LD rider is time. Starting a family a few years back radically altered my concept of free time. With a two year old and a four year old in the house, I have to be happy to get an hour a day for the bike - and the kids bring home so many head colds and creepy diseases that I spend a lot of that workout time on the sofa, sucking a Cold-Eeze.

The irony is that for the first time in my life, I'm actually fairly wealthy. So I can afford a garage full of the finest bicycles and gear, but don't have the time to use them!

"rehash the insanity that goes on during her day's work"

Just fixing that for you Honey... my days aren't nearly so dramatic nor insane!!

I wonderthat if long-distance cycling and bike racing were compared with other sports what the difference in time commitments would be. I'd suggest other sports, where the participant is committed, probably would come out with greater time commitments, and moreso if commuting by bike forms part of a training regimen -- there aren't many other sports, except running, that would allow that trade-off.

I used to sail. Yacht racing and cruising. There are plenty of people (men and women) who would go sailing at least twice, and up to four nights a week in twilighters and weekend events and the odd overnighters. There's setting up, and packing away, and on a yacht there's much more of that than with a bike. If their kids saill, there's a Sunday morning taken up as well.

Car racing? Been there and done that, too. You can fill up weekends pretty fast, plus week nights working on the darned car to make it go faster, handle better, stop quicker... or just repair it.

Field hockey? Again, been there, done that. Training two nights a week, playing and umpiring on Saturdays, likely also on Sundays.

And let's not forget the obligatory social gathering for drinks after the race/game.

In reality, many people (and almost all kids) spend vast amounts of time on the home computer (the traditional TV set doesn't get much of a look-in these days). That's time which wouldn't be missed doing an hour's worth of intervals.

The one disadvantage to LD cycling is that participation by a spouse or kid is limited. Or is it?

Events often have support, or if they don't, it can be negotiated with the organiser, to have the spouse and kids meet at designated points along the route to provide support. Or even just to open and close and sign off at checkpoints. It keeps the contact going during the event, and gives the non-riding spouse/kids a better appreciation of what's going on out there.

Plenty of family time if you kill your TV.

I think this sums it up for a lot of people. A quick google search shows that Americans average 4.5 hours per day watching television. (It was just a quick look, so I wouldn't say this is definitive evidence). That is about 135 hours per month. If even 25% of that was dedicated to riding or some other physical activity, we'd be a far more healthy society!

Time management is key. I don't watch much television, and I plan rides in advance. This has been a tough year at work, but I'll still get in a little over 6000 miles this year. I work full time, maintain a few acres of yard/fields, have family, pets and friends. It is difficult, but riding is my passion. I make time to ride.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1097/5168840568_0f586f5628_m.jpg
;)

Like the t-shirt says....

Front: "My wife says if I ride another endurance race she'll leave me."
Back: "God i'll miss her."


Gotta make it a jersey, with the front and back reversed.

When I add it up, I don't see much family time - 8 hours sleep + 8 hours work + 4 hours commute = 4 hours a day for meals, household chores, and family time.

Mike


I hear you, Mike. After my full days, and then my two young kids (and I am an equally involved parent along with me wife; i know of a few less-involved dads who are in better shape), i find it's impossible to maintain the riding schedules i used to have.

Now, at 9:30 PM, when the kids are asleep and my wife is reading or otherwise doesn't need me, i go for an hour of pure night riding (getting cold these days). It's nothing like regular riding, since I avoid the outlying hills (deer, turkeys, drunks driving) in favor of the local path system (just drunks---but they're pedestrian and very slow moving and predictable). But it's still an hour of riding.

Of course, on the days where my wife and I end up talking or other have plans, well, as Richard Glover wrote: it's about priorities. I figure I'll get more riding done when I successfully hit retirement. Now? Well, we all make choices, and anyway, kids are awesome.

What do most people do during "family time" anyway?


For some of us, that time is spent raising kids, maintaining our homes, and socializing. Helping your kid with 6th grade arithmetic can eat up a good portion of those 50+ hours you've calculated as cycling available time.

I get up around seven and pretend to help the wife get the kids ready for school while getting myself ready for work. My work requires sharp dress and absolute cleanliness so bicycle commuting is out of the question - and would only get me about 20 minutes of on-bike time anyway. But I've arranged my work schedule so as to be "bike-ready" by about 3:30 PM. By 4:45 I need to be cleaned up and on my way to pick up kids from school. Wife gets home around 6:00, and dinner prep and consumption goes till 7:00 or so. Then it's time to play catch and help with homework and get 'em into jammies and read books. They're usually asleep by 9:00 or so, which leaves an hour for dishes, lunch prep, laundry, bills, and the zillion other mundane tasks that keep a household running. Then it's off to bed to get ready to do it all over again.

Weekends are arguably more hectic, as keeping kids this age busy is a full-time job. I usually get an hour or two each weekend day while they nap. Saturday night is "date night" and Sunday night looks a lot like weeknights, with preparation for the coming Monday. So frankly, Cranium hits the mark here: I can be a good father or a good cyclist, but the kids are going to have to be a few years older before I can try to be both.

For some of us, that time is spent raising kids and socializing. Helping your kid with 6th grade arithmetic can eat up a good portion of those 50+ hours you've calculated as cycling available time.

You've given one example of "raising kids" ... what about the outdoor activities? Like ... cycling with them?


As for socialising ... during the years when I did the most cycling (and I have sort of started doing this again because I want to cycle more), I told my friends that if they wanted to socialise with me, they had to get onto bicycles and come ride with me. Most of my friends then were cyclists so that worked. :D

Now, a fortnightly dinner, for people in the area, has been organised at the place where I work and we've opted to go every second or third time rather than every time because we want to ride in the evenings. We're also seriously considering wrapping up our 1-night/week French class at the end of this term so we can focus our attention on cycling instead.

But you know how sometimes you're invited to friends' places for dinner in an evening, and you eat and then sit around chatting for a few hours ... way back when, my ex-husband and I went out to dinner at a friend's place, and as soon as dinner wrapped up they herded us out the door for a long walk. We walked and talked for an hour or two. I thought that was great!! What an excellent alternative to the usual alternative of sitting around and doing nothing. So even if you can't get out for a ride because of some required socialising, you may still be able to be active.

FWIW, I have a trailer and do take the kids for a drag on occasion. This is happening less frequently, primarily because it really isn't much fun. Attaching 70 pounds to the back of your bike doesn't do anything to improve the ride, and they usually end up screaming at other over who gets Thomas the Tank Engine.

We also attach the trailer to the tandem once in a while. This gives similar results, with the added joy of listening to my wife yell at the kids when they fight over Thomas the Tank Engine.

All told, I'd rather just be fat and out of shape.

For some of us, that time is spent raising kids, maintaining our homes, and socializing. Helping your kid with 6th grade arithmetic can eat up a good portion of those 50+ hours you've calculated as cycling available time.
I did that when I raised my son. I used to take all the neighborhood kids on a ride three days a week. We'd ride 4-5 miles then either before or after I'd do another 14-20 miles or so. I also got up early and rode 20-30 miles in the morning before they got up. All the riding with the neighborhood kids paid off. I was able to do RAGBRAI with my son (on his own bike) when he was 9yrs old, including the century day. We also did a number of century rides together after that. It's easy to come up with reason you can't do it and a little difficult finding creative ways you can do it but the rewards are well worth it!

Here is a pic of Homey JR on RAGBRAI
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd35/Homey-B/RAGBRAIXXX.jpg

i almost did the alaska 1200k instead of pbp this year. my wife, with plans of children in the future (one coming soon in Dec!) told me it was now or 30 years from now for pbp. to france we went. i am happy to get all the riding I can in, and most miles from here on out will be with a commute. I might sneak in a series a year, but it's a sacrafice I am willing to make.

of course, I am not too worried, because growing up my summers consisted of riding bikes to minnesota lakes and RAGBRAI (did first solo when I was 11). will do my best to do the same for my kids.

i've found wealth to have very little impact on my enjoyment in cycling. in fact, I would argue, the relationship between my wealth and my cycling is highly inelastic.

I get up at 4AM for a one hour ride 4 days per week, getting in 18-20 miles each time. I just jump into some comfy clothes (only bikespecific clothing is MTB shorts), wear flat shoes (not clipless), so dressing is easy. I use a 6 miles/10Km circular route, and throw in a few intervals to get a good workout. Weekends are easy to get in 30-50 miles rides first thing in the morning at sunrise. In short, I make time and have most of my day free for other things in life. Not really prepping for l-o-n-g supported rides, but short 3-4 day credit card tours.