Bicycle Mechanics - Whoops! Left my chain in mineral spirits for (way) too long

I learned an interesting lesson recently. I had read a while back about some guy who left his Shimano chain in Simple Green for a while and later had it fail quite spectacularly on him while riding. "Who does that?" I thought to myself. Then I go and leave my own chain (actually two of them) soaking in mineral spirits while I use a third in a chain rotation.

Pictured below is how I found the quick link, luckily something obvious enough to be noticed prior to putting the chain back on my bike. Several links of the chain also showed the same damage.

http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/DSC_1303.jpg

Here's a link to the full 12 MP image for more detailed scrutiny: http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/DSC_1303_full.jpg

The most annoying thing about all of this is that my cassette is so worn after 12,000 miles that a new chain skips on it. Since the other two chains in my rotation are done for I'm stuck using the same chain and squeezing out whatever life is left in my cassette. Not really a big deal but not how I envisioned the death of my cassette. I wanted more mileage! I'll probably still get 16k which isn't too bad. And I know to leave my chains in oil from here on out.

[edit] This was the type of mineral spirits in which the chains spent the most time soaking: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/paint/cleaners-thinners-removers/klean-strip/green-odorless-mineral-spirits-54685.html [edit]

And just for fun, a picture of my cracked American Classic front disc hub:

http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/DSC_1301.jpg

And a full size version: http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/DSC_1301_full.jpg

I'm guessing the damage was there before you left it in the mineral spirits, but didn't notice it.

Umm no. Chemical impossibility. Those cracks were in your chain before they went into the mineral spirits.

I don't really understand the concept of rotating chains - you end up with multiple chains you have no idea what the mileage is on. One chain, a ruler and a weekly clean ...

Absolutely positively those cracks were NOT in the quick link before soaking my chain. The pins in the quick link are completely loose due to the cracked plates. That link would fall apart in a second if I tried riding it.

One thing to note as it likely makes a big difference, the chain was in that "odorless" version of mineral spirits for most of the time (the milky stuff) but was transferred to regular spirits at some point.

As for rotating the chains, the chain pictured had 4000 miles on it +/-100 miles. So did the other chain I had soaking. They both measured 12 1/32" when removed. My third chain had just hit the same point so the first chain was going back on until it measured 12 1/16" or 4000 miles more.

+1. You're just noticing the cracks now that there's no gunk covering them up. Either that or you somehow broke the quick link when removing it. Sorry dude, there's no way the mineral spirits did that alone.

Do I need to take a picture of the second quick link, with the same cracks in it from soaking in mineral spirits, and then add my third quick link which has not been exposed for longer than a few minutes and currently has nearly 5000 miles on it and no signs of cracks? I don't have the pics yet but I can take them.

Umm no. Chemical impossibility.

Just curious as I honestly don't understand the chemical reactions that do go on, but would this be a chemical impossibility in Simple Green too? Do you know the chemical difference between regular mineral spirits and those "green" odorless mineral spirits I linked to in the first post (added as an edit)?

I can assure you though these cracks happened while the chain was soaking. I inspect my quick links every time I remove them. I did not miss something this obvious, twice.

Do you have some extra quick links lying around? I always keep my quick links on old chains in case I need one in an emergency.

Do you have some extra quick links lying around? I always keep my quick links on old chains in case I need one in an emergency.

Several links in the chain showed similar cracks. Even if they didn't, there's no way I'd trust the chain after seeing what happened to the quick link.

Great pictures BTW.

I don't believe I've ever seen that type of mineral spirits. I use Crown Low Odor Mineral Spirits from Lowe's - http://www.lowes.com/pd_206490-34228-CR.OMS.M.61_0__?productId=3024045&Ntt=mineral+spirits&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dmineral%2Bspirits&facetInfo= It's clear and won't hurt your chain. I've used it for many years.

Actually I don't like quick links, I use the special pins that come with new Campy or Shimano chains. And I never remove a chain until I'm ready to replace it.

Great pictures BTW.

For the camera geeks, I used a Nikon D300s with a 105mm f/2.8 AF-S G Micro lens @ f/11 (all EXIF data is intact).

I don't believe I've ever seen that type of mineral spirits. I use Crown Low Odor Mineral Spirits from Lowe's - http://www.lowes.com/pd_206490-34228-CR.OMS.M.61_0__?productId=3024045&Ntt=mineral+spirits&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dmineral%2Bspirits&facetInfo= It's clear and won't hurt your chain. I've used it for many years.

Actually I don't like quick links, I use the special pins that come with new Campy or Shimano chains. And I never remove a chain until I'm ready to replace it.

I'm using that type of mineral spirits now too (different brand though). Have you left chains in that stuff for any period of time? I'm tempted to experiment again but not until I have a chain that's definitely trash already. Also, it should definitely be noted that many links of the chain cracked too, not just the quick link. I should have taken more pictures while I had everything set up. Maybe tomorrow night.

I don't have anything against the pins but the quick links are easier and KMC chains are cheap.

I'm wondering if you've possibly confused Simple Green, or some other Alkali/water concoction, with "odorless mineral spirits".

OMS is never "milky", it's crystal clear, petro-based, and should be entirely metal-friendly.

Anything else is what it is.

When I first saw your post, I was thinking you were posting pictures of parts from the shop dumpster (?).

Then, I started to wonder if you've got goblins in your shop that pulled a switch on you(?).

I too am assuming the cracks might have been hidden by grunge. I soak parts in OMS all the time.

And, BTW, I was one who sounded the alarm waaay back about the cassette sprockets I'd seen crumble after soaking overnight in Simple Green.

I have seen other parts fail over the years from over-tight press fits. Even Campy derailers splitting across the top where the mounting bolt bushing had been pressed too tightly into the aluminum forging. Much like those quik links of yours.

You mentioned inspecting those quick-links prior to dunking them; Were you looking for cracks? If so, why? (I've seen the pins loosen, but can't recall seeing one ever cracked. Regular links, yes, I've seen many old, rusted ones crack that way)

That's why I leave my chain nice & grimy.

http://www.blipfoto.com/uploads/58500/2011/8879757414e96bf2e904b61.39613548.jpeg

I'm wondering if you've possibly confused Simple Green, or some other Alkali/water concoction, with "odorless mineral spirits".

OMS is never "milky", it's crystal clear, petro-based, and should be entirely metal-friendly.

I have Simple Green in the garage too so I'm clear on the difference. Did you check the link I posted for the "green" odorless mineral spirits? That stuff has been discussed before on this forum. It's thicker than normal mineral spirits and won't let sediment easily settle out of it hence why I stopped using it to clean chains and switched to regular OMS.

Here's another link. Read the reviews: http://www.amazon.com/Klean-Strip-Odorless-Mineral-Spirits-Substitute/dp/B002L6K51K


I too am assuming the cracks might have been hidden by grunge. I soak parts in OMS all the time.

And, BTW, I was one who sounded the alarm waaay back about the cassette sprockets I'd seen crumble after soaking overnight in Simple Green.

I have seen other parts fail over the years from over-tight press fits. Even Campy derailers splitting across the top where the mounting bolt bushing had been pressed too tightly into the aluminum forging. Much like those quik links of yours.

You mentioned inspecting those quick-links prior to dunking them; Were you looking for cracks? If so, why? (I've seen the pins loosen, but can't recall seeing one ever cracked. Regular links, yes, I've seen many old, rusted ones crack that way)

Keep in mind, this wasn't a simple dunk. This was a long term (8 months at least) soak in the stuff. Stupid? Yes, in hindsight, but I had never read anything leading me to be concerned about it. I knew about the issue with Simple Green but didn't think the same might apply to the "green" OMS I was using.

Why would I inspect the quick links? I'm not too keen on failures of any bicycle component, especially one that could throw me off the bike. While I'm reinstalling the chain it's a painless, 5 second process to check the tightness of the pins and make sure the plates look "right." These plates obviously don't look right even when not blown up on the computer screen. The other quick link actually had the pin fall out due to the cracked plate. I need to post some more pics.

... It's thicker than normal mineral spirits and won't let sediment easily settle out of it hence why I stopped using it to clean chains and switched to regular OMS.

The title is kind of misleading. Probably too late to fix.

Just curious as I honestly don't understand the chemical reactions that do go on, but would this be a chemical impossibility in Simple Green too? Do you know the chemical difference between regular mineral spirits and those "green" odorless mineral spirits I linked to in the first post (added as an edit)?

I can assure you though these cracks happened while the chain was soaking. I inspect my quick links every time I remove them. I did not miss something this obvious, twice.

Cracks in metal are due to stress. Chemicals don't put stress on metal, at worst some will react with the metal but that would happened on all surfaces in contact with the metal so you would see the whole piece slowly breaking down over time. Mineral spirits are just petroleum based solvent and does little to the metal.

Cracks in metal are due to stress. Chemicals don't put stress on metal, at worst some will react with the metal but that would happened on all surfaces in contact with the metal so you would see the whole piece slowly breaking down over time. Mineral spirits are just petroleum based solvent and does little to the metal.

Given that there is a pin pressed/peened in the plate, the metal is always under stress in the quick link. A weakening of the metal could cause the metal to crack. I'm not sure what reaction is taking place but something did.

Nice link pic. Interesting that they cracked in identical places. Both plates appear to have a ding or notch at the edge where the crack ends/starts...perhaps a manufacturing defect that precipitated the crack? I agree that it'd be impossible for normal/traditional mineral spirits to do this. That'd be like the chain cracking from leaving chain lube on it too long.

Given that there is a pin pressed/peened in the plate, the metal is always under stress in the quick link. A weakening of the metal could cause the metal to crack. I'm not sure what reaction is taking place but something did.

I read your post again and what you used was not mineral spirit, but rather a mineral spirit SUBSTITUTE. I don't know what's in the SUBSTITUTE so it's possible that something happened to the quicklink. Real mineral spirits don't really do anything harmful to the metal within 8 months.

If what you are saying is true that mineral spirits damaged the metal link, then there is no way it could be stored and sold in metal containers.

Just curious as I honestly don't understand the chemical reactions that do go on, but would this be a chemical impossibility in Simple Green too? Do you know the chemical difference between regular mineral spirits and those "green" odorless mineral spirits I linked to in the first post (added as an edit)?

I can assure you though these cracks happened while the chain was soaking. I inspect my quick links every time I remove them. I did not miss something this obvious, twice.

Simple Green is slightly alkaline and can lead to some reactions with metals that result in cracking. The Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits you linked to isn't 'mineral spirits' in the traditional sense. It's about 40% light end petroleum distillate and is an emulsion. If you are emulsifying petroleum, you are probably emulsifying it with a water based material or some other polar liquid. The MSDS says that the liquid melts at 0 C and boils at around 100 C. Suspiciously, that corresponds to the properties of water and I suspect that they use a surfactant to get the petroleum distillate into an emulsion. That makes the 'mineral spirits' far more like Simple Green than petroleum based mineral spirits.

Real mineral spirits should be a colorless liquid with a slight to strong petroleum odor. It won't damage parts because it can interact with the parts. It will dissolve grease but you could soak your parts in it for decades and never have any kind of corrosion or damage...to metal parts. Plastics bits are different.

Your cracking issue is with the green part of Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits. Because they added a polar liquid (likely water), soaking parts in that mixture isn't benign.

Nice link pic. Interesting that they cracked in identical places. Both plates appear to have a ding or notch at the edge where the crack ends/starts...perhaps a manufacturing defect that precipitated the crack? I agree that it'd be impossible for normal/traditional mineral spirits to do this. That'd be like the chain cracking from leaving chain lube on it too long.

I suspect the crack is an artifact of the process that was used to stamp the numbers in the plates. Likely formed a stress riser at the end of the stamp. The notch is just where the metal spalled out after the crack formed.

If you're a geek like me, you could take an old carefully inspected chain and separate a few 3-4 link sections and toss them into jars of the solvent/cleaners in question and let the sit.

I concur that "real" OMS cannot attack, corrode or stress crack any steel or other metal parts no matter how long you let them soak. It can, of course, very thoroughly degrease and de-lube a chain so a good relubing is going to be needed after a prolonged soak. That's not your problem.

The "Mineral Spirits" you used are, as cyccoommute noted, an emulsoion of the real thing in water stabilized with a suitable surfactant. Apparently it is not friendly to chains if left in contact for a long time. If you found cracks in linlk other than just the quick link, that assures its damaging properties.

If you're a geek like me, you could take an old carefully inspected chain and separate a few 3-4 link sections and toss them into jars of the solvent/cleaners in question and let the sit.
Ding Ding!!! Winner! It's called SCIENCE...Observe, Theorize, Predict, Test, Repeat. Pulling a random piece of metal out of solution after 8 long forgotten months and saying the conditions caused it just doesn't cut it. That's not science, that's anecdotal.

Its an experiment. And you'll need a control. Whats that? Air? water? 7up?

Its an experiment. And you'll need a control. Whats that? Air? water? 7up?

Tequila

Ok I use mineral sprits all the time so I just put some links in several in fact into my cleaning jar for you all and will leave it a week. (Should I leave it longer? how long would you all like to see LOL)
I really don't think anything will happen to my links.
Are we wagering any BF bets here LOL.....

Ok I use mineral sprits all the time so I just put some links in several in fact into my cleaning jar for you all and will leave it a week.
I really don't think anything will happen to my links.
Are we wagering any BF bets here LOL.....
You really should try eight months like the original poster.

Duh!
if what you are saying is true that mineral spirits damaged the metal link, then there is no way it could be stored and sold in metal containers.

Wow, that's weird! I too doubt if mineral spirits can cause such cracks. If it did damage the chain, why would it show up as cracks anyway. You'd think that it would be more of an overall corrosive etching effect rather than cracking, unless you are hinting at possible metal embrittlement, which then propagated the cracks from existing stress risers? I have never heard of mineral spirits causing such, specially as it is on the mild side when it comes to these types of liquid solvent cleaners. As suggested, find a test chain and soak it in the same mineral spirits see if the same damage happens. It will be good to know if we need to avoid this mineral spirit "substitute".

Chombi

It is chemically impossible for mineral spirits to attack metal. The damage to the chain must have been there before you soaked the chain. If mineral spirits attacked metal, you wouldn't be able to store it in the metal containers that it is normally sold in.

I have a chain soaking in this solution right now, almost two months. I have used this stuff for close to a year now with no problems. Note that this stuff comes in a plastic gallon container and not metal, strangely or is there a reason? It might make a difference as to the purity of the solution. Mine is pretty greasy as it still works great after multiple uses. I will report back tomorrow once I have pulled my chain out and inspected. I am also rotating three chains on my cassette and have over 10K on it and expect at least 5K more. I am using SRAM quick links not KMC.

If you're a geek like me, you could take an old carefully inspected chain and separate a few 3-4 link sections and toss them into jars of the solvent/cleaners in question and let the sit.

I'd be more convinced it you took some extra links from a new chain and soaked them in solvent and let sit and they came out cracked. I would bet you could let them sit for ever without cracks forming.

I don't really understand the concept of rotating chains - you end up with multiple chains you have no idea what the mileage is on. One chain, a ruler and a weekly clean ...

The idea of rotating is that chains stretch faster than the cassette wears. So by rotating through 3 chains the cassette wears along with the chains and you don't have the problem of putting a new chain on an overly worn cassette, reducing chain skip. In theory the cassette and 3 chains are all worn out at the same mileage. I'm not sure that this is a valid assumption.

I just broke a 10 speed Ultegra chain with 1,100 road miles on it. I thought this was was way too soon and did some research on chain life on the web. Most people were getting 2,000 to 3,000 miles on a 10 speed chain which gives a cassette and 3 chains (in rotation) a life expectancy of 6,000 to 9,000 miles. Some people were getting less than 1,000 miles on a chain. I think 12,000 miles for 3 chains is plenty.

I just broke a 10 speed Ultegra chain with 1,100 road miles on it...... Some people were getting less than 1,000 miles on a chain.
A broken chain in less than 1100 miles is almost always a symptom of improper installation unless the chain was subjected to dreadfully abusive riding or a serious mishap like running a piece of wire through it like a friend once did.

The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.

I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.

Simple Green is slightly alkaline and can lead to some reactions with metals that result in cracking. The Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits you linked to isn't 'mineral spirits' in the traditional sense. It's about 40% light end petroleum distillate and is an emulsion. If you are emulsifying petroleum, you are probably emulsifying it with a water based material or some other polar liquid. The MSDS says that the liquid melts at 0 C and boils at around 100 C. Suspiciously, that corresponds to the properties of water and I suspect that they use a surfactant to get the petroleum distillate into an emulsion. That makes the 'mineral spirits' far more like Simple Green than petroleum based mineral spirits.

Real mineral spirits should be a colorless liquid with a slight to strong petroleum odor. It won't damage parts because it can interact with the parts. It will dissolve grease but you could soak your parts in it for decades and never have any kind of corrosion or damage...to metal parts. Plastics bits are different.

Your cracking issue is with the green part of Klean-Strip® Green™ Odorless Mineral Spirits. Because they added a polar liquid (likely water), soaking parts in that mixture isn't benign.

That the "green" mineral spirits is truly an emulsion with regular mineral spirits makes a lot of sense and at least begins to explain why the chain reacted like it did to the soaking.

Ding Ding!!! Winner! It's called SCIENCE...Observe, Theorize, Predict, Test, Repeat. Pulling a random piece of metal out of solution after 8 long forgotten months and saying the conditions caused it just doesn't cut it. That's not science, that's anecdotal.

A random piece? Hardly. It was two separate perfectly intact quick links and associated chains in different containers (glass) both in the same "green" mineral spirits. Plenty here have attested to the fact that regular mineral spirits won't harm metal no matter how long you soak a chain in it. That much is proven. My "test" (unintentional as it might have been) shows that the "green" mineral spirits can attack a chain severely enough in 8 months to make it unuseable. 8 months happens to coincide with how long it takes me to cover 4000 miles which I was using as my chain rotation period.

I'd be more convinced it you took some extra links from a new chain and soaked them in solvent and let sit and they came out cracked. I would bet you could let them sit for ever without cracks forming.

How weak do you think my legs are? Those split plates would fall apart before I made it out of my neighborhood. There is NO WAY the chain was in that condition before I put it in the "green" mineral spirits.

I can assure you though these cracks happened while the chain was soaking. I inspect my quick links every time I remove them. I did not miss something this obvious, twice.

All we can do is tell you the truth, as we see it. The mineral spirits is not the cause.

Just so you know, the wimpass mineral spirits you buy with no odour, no toxins, no carcinogens, is no good. The evil nasties in real mineral spirits is what does the job.
Just kidding... but a firm believer in old fashioned mineral spirits.

All we can do is tell you the truth, as we see it. The mineral spirits is not the cause.

Have you been reading through the whole thread? Did you miss the comments about my use of "green" mineral spirits which appear to be mineral spirits mixed with water? Water and steel don't play nicely together even with some petroleum product in the mix. Poorly sealed wheeled bearings used in the rain a lot are another good example of this.


Just so you know, the wimpass mineral spirits you buy with no odour, no toxins, no carcinogens, is no good. The evil nasties in real mineral spirits is what does the job.
Just kidding... but a firm believer in old fashioned mineral spirits.

I agree that regular (but still "odorless") mineral spirits works far better at chain cleaning than the "green" stuff. The "green" stuff did work though but it was only really good for one use. It's so thick that you can't even pour it through cheese cloth to separate out the grit. With regular mineral spirits, all the crap settles right to the bottom allowing you to pour off the good stuff from the top and reuse it (not that this is news to anyone here).

Well, now we know chains don't really last 12,000 miles. Toasted the cassette. bk

A broken chain in less than 1100 miles is almost always a symptom of improper installation unless the chain was subjected to dreadfully abusive riding or a serious mishap.

I would agree. I have never broken a chain in my life before this, and many chains were over worn before replacing. Yet my Ultegra chain did break with 1,100 miles on it. I do sometimes blast up small hills and get out of the saddle, but I'm an old man (just turned 59) and doubt I over stressed the chain. Oh yes, when I measured the broken chain it had about an eighth inch stretch over the full length (.25% ?). Maybe just a defective chain, but I replaced it with a Sram anyway.


The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.

The believe the person reporting chain life under 1,000 miles claimed they were stretched to the limit and claimed to do so consistently. He may have been an excessively strong rider or abused his chain, that was the extreme low end of chain life.


I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.

2,000 to 3,000 miles was the average for 10 speed chain. Some people got more like you are getting. 4,000 miles was above average. Check it out, Google "10 speed chain life" or check out this link: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/components-wrenching/chain-durability-8-speed-vs-9-speed-vs-10-speed-141517.html, Checkout the comment by PdxMark: "Shimano 10sp chains are as soft as butter." - just one man's opinion.

Keep the round side down,
paul

How weak do you think my legs are? Those split plates would fall apart before I made it out of my neighborhood. There is NO WAY the chain was in that condition before I put it in the "green" mineral spirits.
No comment on your legs, but if the "green mineral spirits" eats through chain, it should also eat through new chain. I would still be more convinced if it did that to a new chain.

Two straight months in the same solution and no cracks. To be safe I won't be soaking my chains long periods in this stuff and will switch to the real stuff when I run out.

I learned an interesting lesson recently. I had read a while back about some guy who left his Shimano chain in Simple Green for a while and later had it fail quite spectacularly on him while riding. "Who does that?" I thought to myself. Then I go and leave my own chain (actually two of them) soaking in mineral spirits while I use a third in a chain rotation.

Pictured below is how I found the quick link, luckily something obvious enough to be noticed prior to putting the chain back on my bike. Several links of the chain also showed the same damage.

http://home.comcast.net/~joejackson951/bike/DSC_1303.jpg


So... the green mineral spirits attacked each link in exactly the same place ?

Putting a chain in an alleged destructive solution should have caused global damage and not just localized damage as your image shows.

A broken chain in less than 1100 miles is almost always a symptom of improper installation unless the chain was subjected to dreadfully abusive riding or a serious mishap like running a piece of wire through it like a friend once did.

The "some people" getting less than 1000 miles on a chain might have been retiring their chains voluntarily to avoid cassette cog wear. If they were all reporting broken chains, they were doing something terribly wrong.

I've ridden for 157,000 miles, mostly on Shimano 8 and 9-speed chains and a few Wippermann 9 and 10-speed chains. I change the chains and cassettes together at 6000 - 75000 mile intervals and have NEVER broken a chain. And my riding conditions are not flat, as my forum name would indicate, so these chains aren't babied.
That is a pretty wide range. Miracyuloius at the top end, in fact.

Remember, there was a batch of Ultegra chains that were breaking at the plates through a manufacturing defect.

There are also, I believe, issues with chain checkers that people use for convenience, rather than measuring with a ruler. Hence, chains might be retired because the chain checker says so, but might still have plenty of life left in them.

As to the original post, I take on board what cyccommute says, but would the chemical reaction have been localised at one location on all link plates rather than "globally" if that was the case?

Who knows? I will just stick with diesel as my cleaner of choice.

So... the green mineral spirits attacked each link in exactly the same place ?

Putting a chain in an alleged destructive solution should have caused global damage and not just localized damage as your image shows.

I bet if you checked the material hardness or tensile strength, it's globally weaker now.