Pacific Northwest - Share The Road With Epileptics

Hello everyone! November is Epilepsy Awareness month, and believe it or not 10,000 more American's die from this orphaned disease than do of Breast Cancer.

It has been brought to my attention something very alarming on the streets of Seattle. The latest trend amongst bikers is to affix 4-5 flash per second lights on the front and back of their bikes. This is a flash rate unacceptable to people with epilepsy -- as such a fast flash will trigger seizures. My opinion on this matter is that these lights are counter-productive and someone will die as a result of them. Either a driver having a seizure and killing themselves, or worse, crashing into others and taking their lives.
Consider using a light with a 1 flash per second or less flash rate, or one that simply does not flash. Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ThbJBPn9A

I'd like to be supportive, but the idea of someone driving who has epilepsy that is triggered by flashing lights frightens me. Cyclist are far from the only source of flashing lights out there. Do you have this condition, and if so, do you drive?

I think the issue is that a lot of times, people don't know they have the condition and episodes occur at very inopportune times -- driving especially. I had a couple of seizures as a kid, and outgrew the condition, thank goodness. Epilepsy is hell, and there is a high suicide rate amongst people who can not control their seizures. 1%+ of the population in America have this condition, and most people drive as they have their seizures under control by medication. But I believe that these lights are so outrageous, that bad things will happen -- probably sooner than later.

"Cyclist are far from the only source of flashing lights out there" This is true, but the rate of the flashing is the issue. Emergency vehicles lights flash -- but not as fast as these, and they are therefore not so much a problem.

I'd be supportive.. but given that lights flash at night.. why would this really matter? Don't most people with this condition choose not to drive at night?!?!?!?!?!

They seem to be on the road at all times, as they are used for being seen while riding. People with the condition drive all the time. And it really isn't a huge deal, unless something like this pops up. All DOT's in the country allow people with the condition to drive if they are seizure free for a year or longer, and I think rightly so -- it's MUCH safer having them on the road than people who have had a DUI. Much safer! Also, people with the condition many times don't drive, they walk or take public transit, and they are still exposed to these lights, and while they probably won't slam into someone with their bodies and kill them like they would with their cars, they still are human beings and have a right to be protected from these crazy lights!
I believe these things have already been banned in Germany and a few other places btw.

They seem to be on the road at all times, as they are used for being seen while riding. People with the condition drive all the time. And it really isn't a huge deal, unless something like this pops up. All DOT's in the country allow people with the condition to drive if they are seizure free for a year or longer, and I think rightly so -- it's MUCH safer having them on the road than people who have had a DUI. Much safer! Also, people with the condition many times don't drive, they walk or take public transit, and they are still exposed to these lights, and while they probably won't slam into someone with their bodies and kill them like they would with their cars, they still are human beings and have a right to be protected from these crazy lights!
I believe these things have already been banned in Germany and a few other places btw.

Germany requires taillights to be "steady" instead of blinking. In my experience, a steady light is indistinguishable from an automotive taillight, which could cause accidents by fooling auto drivers into thinking they're following a car instead of approaching a bicycle.

There's no free lunch. I do wish cyclists riding at night would not wear dark or black clothing. That makes it that much tougher to see them. I see plenty of commuting cyclists since my job is right next to one of Portland's more popular cycling corridors.

I have epilepsy and drive, but I've been seizure free for a couple of years now. I'd rather see a blinking light while driving than a steady one as it would confuse me thinking it was a car. It's not always the frequency, but how long you look at the light and most of us with seizures know that. I find white blinking lights hurt (but don't cause seizures for me) and the red blinking ones are fine. Whatever makes you visible is the most important thing, but if these are causing problems to anyone, not just people with epilepsy, don't use them. Anyone can have a seizure if the conditions are right.

Epilepsy sucks, but that's how it is. I've had it for 36 years and am still around. Like anything else, you get used to but never really get over it.

What really scares me is having a seizure on a bike. I have what are called complex partial seizures and would just pedal the bike aimlessly down the road possibly into traffic until I came out of it a few minutes later. Think walking underwater in slow motion and not being able to do anything about it and that's what a complex partial seizure is like. I just keep a list of my meds and a form of ID on me at all times even though I'm seizure free.

Thanks for sharing Bethany, wish you the best....

I'm sympathetic, but the problem seems a bit larger than the bike lights. We are using high frequency blinking lights in an attempt to pull motorists out of their stupor and cause them to pay attention and actually see us. If motorists took driving seriously (it is, after all, life and death), then we could get away with steady lights. Maybe you should focus your efforts on improved driver training, better traffic law enforcement and meaningful license suspensions. That would likely save more lives than any ban, voluntary or otherwise, on flashing bike lights ever will.

is there any data that indicates how many epileptic drivers have actually suffered seizures caused by flashing bike lights?

Epilepsy isn't called the orphaned disease in America for nothing, there is very little data. Working on it though.

is there any data that indicates how many epileptic drivers have actually suffered seizures caused by flashing bike lights?

Epilepsy is a very well-studied disease. I just did a Medline search using the terms "epileptic seizures from bicycle lights" and no relevant citations were returned. Using the term 'epilepsy' returned 128808 citations; hardly what you would expect from an orphaned disease.

So unless you can actually quote something from the relevant literature, it looks as if you have no medical basis for your opinions.

Beyond what MillCreek states, your point is to ask us to make a compromise in our safety and the safety of motorists so that a very small percent of our population may be safer. Really? Blinking lights are for my safety and yours. If the blink rate is too fast then perhaps the CPSC should madate those away.

I'm going to jump on the side of devil's advocate here: You object to changing flash rate to accommodate the safety of a very small portion of the population. But think about it: cyclists on the road are a very small part of the transportation population, and we want drivers to take actions to keep us safe.

Pot, meet kettle.

It's weird how people from California, Nebraska, Ohio, and Texas have taken up residence on the Pacific Northwest forum lately. I'm not complaining (and this thread really isn't a regional issue), but it's odd. ( See also. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/774090-Death-of-a-bicyclist-on-an-urban-trail) )

Perhaps this thread could be moved to somewhere like A&S - they like this sort of thing there - and enjoy a wider audience?

I mostly navigate from New Posts, which shows everything. I saw this was a topic in NW, but the subject of the thread is not peculiar to the Pac NW. So here I am.


See also. (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/774090-Death-of-a-bicyclist-on-an-urban-trail)

Same story there.

I'm quite the troublemaker, eh?

I'm going to jump on the side of devil's advocate here: You object to changing flash rate to accommodate the safety of a very small portion of the population. But think about it: cyclists on the road are a very small part of the transportation population, and we want drivers to take actions to keep us safe.

Pot, meet kettle.

Seems to be an error in logic here. You need to insert the word SOME before cyclists and use I instead of we because I am sure there are more cyclists like myself that do not agree with your statement. I put lights on my bike for three reasons, it is the law, for my safety and other roadway users safety. I obey traffic laws and only have the reasonable expectation that others do as well. The only action I want auto and truck drivers to take they are already required to by law. Drive with due care and caution. Of course outside of the PNW your laws may differ.

Then again my ideas are probably skewed what with my 20+ years in trucking, a short stint in law enforcement, and only commuting by bike for several months through a small college town before there is much traffic in the AM, then country rides home. Although most of my riding is on narrow county roads without lane lines and a speed limit of 50 mph and some highway miles with limits of 65. :twitchy:

Okay, so you're studly and better than the rest of us.


Whatev.

This short article lists the most common sources of flashing lights that people with this disorder should avoid. Bike lights are not mentioned, but many others are. People with epilepsy should avoid flashing bike lights, I'd suggest holding a hand up to block the light from vision, or looking away for the very short time you encounter the light while driving. Are people with epilepsy suppose to be driving a car? The driver should know how to avoid this exposure, bike riders need the flashing red lights, I'm not so sure about the ultra bright flashing white lights.

http://www.epilepsy.com/epilepsy/flashing_lights

I think the issue is that a lot of times, people don't know they have the condition and episodes occur at very inopportune times -- driving especially. I had a couple of seizures as a kid, and outgrew the condition, thank goodness. Epilepsy is hell, and there is a high suicide rate amongst people who can not control their seizures. 1%+ of the population in America have this condition, and most people drive as they have their seizures under control by medication. But I believe that these lights are so outrageous, that bad things will happen -- probably sooner than later.

If the lights will trigger seizures, then the seizures aren't under control of medication. QED. And if people "don't know they have the condition", they aren't taking medication anyway, right?

I find your logic uncompelling, and your position untenable. There are a lot of flashing lights out there, and posting in a bike forum isn't going to affect even the smallest percentage of them. If there's a risk of seizures being triggered, those in the risk pool need to quit driving until/unless you get those lights legislated (by manufacture/sale) off the road. I have empathy for those with seizures (my sister can't drive due to repeated surgery for a benign brain tumor), but no sympathy for those who are willing to put OTHER people's lives at risk.

KeS

Are people with epilepsy suppose to be driving a car?

As a healthcare risk manager, I deal with this issue several times a year. The majority of states require that you be seizure-free for six months, and get a physician's certification accordingly, before allowing you to drive. Some states require a 12-month seizure-free interval. In addition to a seizure-free interval, some states also require that you be taking anti-seizure meds, if you have diagnosed epilepsy.

My physicians are sometimes approached by patients who want a certification when they are not in fact seizure-free or are not compliant with their meds. Please don't ask for this; we won't do it.

I usually just browse through the "new posts" and saw the post mentioning epilepsy so I chimed in. I actually have only known about my epilepsy for 14 years after having my first gran mal seizure as an adult. Turns out I've had epilepsy since birth due to brain trauma/stroke/sub-dural hematoma when tests were done. All the "funny" feelings I had as a kid/teengager that I thought were normal were actually complex partial seizures. I've had maybe 3-4 gran mal seizures during the past 14 years usually because of a medication change. It's extremely possible to have seizures and not know it until something sets it off.

Just like with cyclists taking cycling seriously, most of us with epilepsy take the condition seriously. Believe me, falling backwards into a bathroom with a near miss of the toilet and sink as your first gran mal seizure makes you take your meds extremely seriously. I never even thought about cyclist's lights causing seizures until it was brought up in the post. I don't think most of with epilepsy have even thought about bike lights as problems as well so there wouldn't be any studies of it. We are too busy living our lives to let everything get in the way.

The OP was just worried about those that are photosensitive when it comes to seizures. Just keep yourselves visible so cars can see you. Last thing you want is brain damage of any kind.

Saw a group of three bikers, all with these lights Yesterday. Someone is going to die, I guarantee! These things are a disgrace.

Saw a group of three bikers, all with these lights Yesterday. Someone is going to die, I guarantee! These things are a disgrace.

Passed a couple riders this evening, wearing dark clothes and with minimal lights. Damn near impossible to see. That's disgraceful.

"Cyclist are far from the only source of flashing lights out there" This is true, but the rate of the flashing is the issue. Emergency vehicles lights flash -- but not as fast as these, and they are therefore not so much a problem.
Sorry, but raising the bs flag on this statement - emergency vehicles in these parts have very fast flashing, high intensity strobes that are much, much faster than one flash per second. And much more intense than any AA battery powered blinky on my bike will exhibit.

Sorry, but raising the bs flag on this statement - emergency vehicles in these parts have very fast flashing, high intensity strobes that are much, much faster than one flash per second. And much more intense than any AA battery powered blinky on my bike will exhibit.

+1. rescue trucks' emergency strobes are thousands of times more powerful than bicycle strobes, and they're much more likely to be seen. I'm not aware of a call to eliminate them, either.

-7 Emergency vehicles pass you buy at about a 1-100 ratio as the super flash seizure inducing bike-light guys, and on top of that, are accompanied by a very loud siren noise. Not hard to prepare for them passing and not look at the lights. Man this battle is going to be hard, like I said people don't really care about epileptic freaks.


+1. rescue trucks' emergency strobes are thousands of times more powerful than bicycle strobes, and they're much more likely to be seen. I'm not aware of a call to eliminate them, either.

Epileptic seizures can be triggered by lots of driving related occurances--the setting sun flickering as you drive through a wooded area, for example. If a person with epilepsy is unable or chooses not to take medication, they're a safety-compromised population. And there's nothing wrong with that--everyone on this board is safety-compromised by riding in traffic. Focus your lights so that you're visible, you can see, and you're not blinding people. Keeping your blinkies angled so that they aren't in people's eyes doesn't have to do with respecting epileptics, it has to do with being respectful to pedestrians, period. It's the old "don't be an a-hole" trope.

Epileptic seizures can be triggered by lots of driving related occurances--the setting sun flickering as you drive through a wooded area, for example. If a person with epilepsy is unable or chooses not to take medication, they're a safety-compromised population. And there's nothing wrong with that--everyone on this board is safety-compromised by riding in traffic. Focus your lights so that you're visible, you can see, and you're not blinding people. Keeping your blinkies angled so that they aren't in people's eyes doesn't have to do with respecting epileptics, it has to do with being respectful to pedestrians, period. It's the old "don't be an a-hole" trope.

Ummmm REALLY? Comparing someone who doesn't take their medicine and willfully getting behind the wheel of a multi-ton vehicle and riding a bicycle on the road? The OP wasn't talking about the angle of the lights, simply the lights themselves... no one was talking about pointing their lights into anyones faces etc..

-7 Emergency vehicles pass you buy at about a 1-100 ratio as the super flash seizure inducing bike-light guys, and on top of that, are accompanied by a very loud siren noise. Not hard to prepare for them passing and not look at the lights. Man this battle is going to be hard, like I said people don't really care about epileptic freaks.

Nobody said that. As a diabetic, I know what "invisible" conditions can do to a person. I haven't gotten into trouble by dropping my blood sugar too low (although I've come close), but there's plenty of stories in the news about what happens when you do: http://www.koinlocal6.com/news/local/story/Portland-officer-pinned-under-car-during-SW/8MO37GYookKR5Ial71F6AQ.cspx . I know the consequences of mismanaging my medications.

If you can point to a similar story involving epileptics, you might get some slack. Otherwise you're blowing smoke.

Another story: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2011/11/police_officer_punched_in_the.html
Note that the paramedics are checking the driver's blood sugar:

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/img-0119jpg-c232e7b74c8784dc.jpg

Ummmm REALLY? Comparing someone who doesn't take their medicine and willfully getting behind the wheel of a multi-ton vehicle and riding a bicycle on the road? The OP wasn't talking about the angle of the lights, simply the lights themselves... no one was talking about pointing their lights into anyones faces etc..

I didn't mean to conflate driving with untreated epilepsy and riding a bike. The example of the trees was just that, an example of how wide a range of phenomena can trigger seizures. Untreated epilepsy and driving don't mix. That's how I learned to ride a bike, because my mom couldn't drive when I was younger for a while.

And the keeping lights out of people's faces--the OP didn't mention it, but if we're even considering ways to temper risk to epileptics, that's a pretty simple way. And yeah, even if it doesn't give healthy people seizures, it still can be annoying ;)

- If you can point to a similar story involving epileptics, you might get some slack. Otherwise you're blowing smoke.

Pretty sure I can find one. Will start looking. If I don't, maybe Seattle, flooded with these crazy lights -- can be the first!!! We'd make the news, what a delight that would be!!!! It would be like 8 years ago when me and my buddy spoke at city council in ft worth about the dangers of the water gardens. There hadn't been an accident there, so they ignored us -- and a couple months later 5 children were dead!!! It was fun 'cuz it got us on the news!!!! (not really...and I just share this to explain why I am maybe overly emotional about issues like this...sorry 'bout that!)


http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=6662066655181661145&hl=en

Ummmm REALLY? Comparing someone who doesn't take their medicine and willfully getting behind the wheel of a multi-ton vehicle and riding a bicycle on the road? The OP wasn't talking about the angle of the lights, simply the lights themselves... no one was talking about pointing their lights into anyones faces etc..

The OP was talking about people who haven't discovered yet that they're epileptic. Maybe in California people start taking meds before they know there's something medically wrong with them, but in the rest of the world, time only going in one direction is a pretty good excuse in this case. ;)

If you can point to a similar story involving epileptics, you might get some slack. Otherwise you're blowing smoke.

Pretty sure I can find one. Will start looking. If I don't, maybe Seattle, flooded with these crazy lights -- can be the first!!! We'd make the news, what a delight that would be!!!! It would be like 8 years ago when me and my buddy spoke at city council in ft worth about the dangers of the water gardens. There hadn't been an accident there, so they ignored us -- and a couple months later 5 children were dead!!! It was fun 'cuz it got us on the news!!!! (not really...and I just share this to explain why I am maybe overly emotional about issues like this...sorry 'bout that!)


Given those criteria, maybe we should ban texting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umRXAkZ8Xo0

I'm not saying what you suggest is impossible. However, you're postulating an epileptic; who has mismanaged his/her meds (or is undiagnosed); who is a cyclist, riding at night, and stares into a blinky of the right frequency to induce a seizure. Because of this extremely unlikely situation, you're suggesting we abandon a simple and practical safety device? There are many dangers that are much more likely to occur, and they are an accepted part of life.

This is the same mentality that causes some schools to prohibit anyone from bringing peanut butter sandwiches to school, because someone may have an allergy.

The OP was talking about people who haven't discovered yet that they're epileptic. Maybe in California people start taking meds before they know there's something medically wrong with them, but in the rest of the world, time only going in one direction is a pretty good excuse in this case. ;)

God I hope no ones doing that! But anyways, as was already covered in this thread there are TONS of more likely triggers for a first seizure..(hopefully got that right?). Oh and I know someone said something about usually service vehicle with flashing lights get past you quickly, there's still road construction, accident sights and all sorts of other fun things that involve those lights... just around from me there's a 15mph turn with a flashing light setup, unless you do under 5 it flashes and a lot faster then my bike light.

I get this is an issue for those with it, but why are we trying to single out a small subset of lights that hopefully amount to a tiny fraction of the amount of lights that could cause it!

- I get this is an issue for those with it, but why are we trying to single out a small subset of lights that hopefully amount to a tiny fraction of the amount of lights that could cause it!

Because this is a forum that focuses on bikes.

-This is the same mentality that causes some schools to prohibit anyone from bringing peanut butter sandwiches to school, because someone may have an allergy.

Terrible analogy. If there was a type of peanut butter that no one is allergic to and was equally tasty -- and they decided to use those instead, well that would be a good analogy. Because all that needs to happen here is bicyclists using a slower-rate flash, and everyone wins.

So done with this.

I would be so much more persuaded in the OP's contention if there was only some medical literature or opinion to back it up. I suspect he is not a neurologist and I have not seen any citations, either.

"My opinion on this matter is that these lights are counter-productive and someone will die as a result of them."

OP, so far you've provided no basis for this. And the consensus of opinions on this board seems to be that there is more to be gained by using flashers than by not using them, and that someone could die as a result of NOT using them. I am less worried about being run over by someone having a seizure a low wattage blinking light might cause than I am in being hit by someone that doesn't notice I am there. But until data are presented, this is all 100% opinion.

Please present some data, if you can. Folks here are genuinely interested.

- I get this is an issue for those with it, but why are we trying to single out a small subset of lights that hopefully amount to a tiny fraction of the amount of lights that could cause it!

Because this is a forum that focuses on bikes.

-This is the same mentality that causes some schools to prohibit anyone from bringing peanut butter sandwiches to school, because someone may have an allergy.

Terrible analogy. If there was a type of peanut butter that no one is allergic to and was equally tasty -- and they decided to use those instead, well that would be a good analogy. Because all that needs to happen here is bicyclists using a slower-rate flash, and everyone wins.

10 Posts total, angrily arguing your point without being able to see any view or part of a view other then the one you brought to the table yourself.. I don't know why I allowed you to annoy me at all! I'm glad you're so passionate about the cause, now maybe you can find a more constructive use for this passion then arguing on a bikeforum site that people need to give up safety for your cause? :D

It doesn't seem that impractical to hack the lights to slow them down a bit. Maybe make a new one from the ground up?. I have psychogenic non-epileptic seizures and quite frankly every day things most people are accustomed to make my life miserable. It'd be nice every now and then if people would look for a solution to make both parties happy instead of just shootin' down the concept. I don't plan to ever drive, and now I might not be able to bike either. My doctor won't prescribe meds for my condition, because they are unnecessary. It would have a placebo effect since my seizures are non-epileptic. To add to the subject, bike lights have sent me into a daze but I've never even noticed ambulance or police lights. Honestly bike lights are the only thing that ever bothered me, the white ones in particular. Also one episode of Tenchi Muyo with a **** load of white flashing lights, I stared at the tv for like an hour after the show went off. No seizures, just likely to walk into traffic or a pole or something from the daze. If anyone finds any studies on this or anything similar please post them, I've had these seizures for 10+ yrs. and I'm still learning what the triggers are. The dazed states are more problematic than the actual seizures for me, since I'm in an altered state of mind.

I don't see enough bike lights daily to worry about it (my state has the highest obesity rate, noone REALLY bikes here) but in the bigger cities, add in the noise, obnoxious people, etc. It's worth doing a study on. Surprisingly there aren't many changes necessary for a happy life with seizures, it's just frustrating to know that people aren't going to even try to make them. I can usually block out one or two annoyances, but when they add up over a single long ass trip on the noisy, bouncy bus it adds up and I have to take naps after every destination. Here's some motivation, make our lives easier and some of us won't need ssi which is your tax dollars right?. That's probably the only thing that'll work, I know how much most Americans hate to allow me to have my $698 a month, for rent, utilities, transit, and clothing, not to mention medicaid doesn't cover everything.

Speak of the turkey. Right after I typed this long ass essay I found this.

http://road.cc/content/news/13526-epileptic-seizure-warning-over-flashing-bike-lights

It doesn't seem that impractical to hack the lights to slow them down a bit. Maybe make a new one from the ground up?. I have psychogenic non-epileptic seizures and quite frankly every day things most people are accustomed to make my life miserable. It'd be nice every now and then if people would look for a solution to make both parties happy instead of just shootin' down the concept. I don't plan to ever drive, and now I might not be able to bike either. My doctor won't prescribe meds for my condition, because they are unnecessary. It would have a placebo effect since my seizures are non-epileptic. To add to the subject, bike lights have sent me into a daze but I've never even noticed ambulance or police lights. Honestly bike lights are the only thing that ever bothered me, the white ones in particular. Also one episode of Tenchi Muyo with a **** load of white flashing lights, I stared at the tv for like an hour after the show went off. No seizures, just likely to walk into traffic or a pole or something from the daze. If anyone finds any studies on this or anything similar please post them, I've had these seizures for 10+ yrs. and I'm still learning what the triggers are. The dazed states are more problematic than the actual seizures for me, since I'm in an altered state of mind.

I don't see enough bike lights daily to worry about it (my state has the highest obesity rate, noone REALLY bikes here) but in the bigger cities, add in the noise, obnoxious people, etc. It's worth doing a study on. Surprisingly there aren't many changes necessary for a happy life with seizures, it's just frustrating to know that people aren't going to even try to make them. I can usually block out one or two annoyances, but when they add up over a single long ass trip on the noisy, bouncy bus it adds up and I have to take naps after every destination. Here's some motivation, make our lives easier and some of us won't need ssi which is your tax dollars right?. That's probably the only thing that'll work, I know how much most Americans hate to allow me to have my $698 a month, for rent, utilities, transit, and clothing, not to mention medicaid doesn't cover everything.

Speak of the turkey. Right after I typed this long ass essay I found this.

http://road.cc/content/news/13526-epileptic-seizure-warning-over-flashing-bike-lights
Quoted right from there... and this illustrates my point well (even if this is a zombie thread)
"The CTC's Chris Juden said people using bikes had to balance "possible discomfort" for pedestrians against the risk of traumatic injury or death for cyclists."

You're right, Raleigh; if cyclists don't use their lights in obnoxious blinking mode, they'll die! And seizures are "possible discomfort."

You're right, Raleigh; if cyclists don't use their lights in obnoxious blinking mode, they'll die! And seizures are "possible discomfort."
It's a direct quote from the article. I'll make the point though, in my personal experiences I am a lot less noticeable riding in the dark or fog or rain, or all of the above with a simple solid light. I find nothing obnoxious about my own desire to live. Hopefully you can at least understand my perspective.

It's a direct quote from the article. I'll make the point though, in my personal experiences I am a lot less noticeable riding in the dark or fog or rain, or all of the above with a simple solid light. I find nothing obnoxious about my own desire to live. Hopefully you can at least understand my perspective.

That's not what I as implying at all. I wouldn't wanna bike without effective lights either. I think they'll still work just fine being a little slower is all. I found a couple threads about making my own and I'll do what I can. I don't expect everyone else to do anything about it anymore. That's just the nature of it. I'll do what I can in my immediate area though. Just for the record seizures are viewed as a possible discomfort by everyone that doesn't have them. Doesn't matter if I fall and break my teeth noone really gets the severity of it til they have one themselves. I've had days where I've had 10 seizures in one day and the next day none. I don't think I should have to be cooped up in the house on my good days because of certain simple things that can be changed. If I can have a perfect day I'm gonna strive for it even if it is futile, like I stated there aren't as many triggers as people would think. I'm not asking the whole world to change just a few commercials and lights. I'm not asking you to turn off your lights and fend for yourselves, that would be ridiculous lol.

That's not what I as implying at all. I wouldn't wanna bike without effective lights either. I think they'll still work just fine being a little slower is all. I found a couple threads about making my own and I'll do what I can. I don't expect everyone else to do anything about it anymore. That's just the nature of it. I'll do what I can in my immediate area though. Just for the record seizures are viewed as a possible discomfort by everyone that doesn't have them. Doesn't matter if I fall and break my teeth noone really gets the severity of it til they have one themselves. I've had days where I've had 10 seizures in one day and the next day none. I don't think I should have to be cooped up in the house on my good days because of certain simple things that can be changed. If I can have a perfect day I'm gonna strive for it even if it is futile, like I stated there aren't as many triggers as people would think. I'm not asking the whole world to change just a few commercials and lights. I'm not asking you to turn off your lights and fend for yourselves, that would be ridiculous lol.
I sympathize but how flashy is too flashy? Which light sets are known to set off blinkies etc... I looked again yesterday trying to find more info and perhaps to turn down my own flash rate but this is a very vague area right now, we need some hard numbers!!!!!!!!!!! My response was directed specifically at Seattle as an attempt to reach a reasonable conclusion to hostilities so I apologize if it was misconstrued.

Steveattle, Onyxaxe, et al --
Perhaps a better course of action for you would be to begin contacting the distributors/manufacturers of blinkies and ask them to reduce the flashing rate voluntarily, or at least to provide a "slower" setting.
To blink, or not to blink, is a never-ending topic.

Personally, I feel that here in the USA, the majority of motorists understand a red blinky to state "bicycle ahead". I don't really buy the business about "can't judge distance because it is flashing", nor the "attracts drunks like flashing lights on police cars do".

Now, as far as the kind of light I would like to ride behind, I'd prefer non-flashing.

Steveattle, Onyxaxe, et al --

Perhaps a better course of action for you would be to begin contacting the distributors/manufacturers of blinkies and ask them to reduce the flashing rate voluntarily, or at least to provide a "slower" setting.
To blink, or not to blink, is a never-ending topic.

Personally, I feel that here in the USA, the majority of motorists understand a red blinky to state "bicycle ahead". I don't really buy the business about "can't judge distance because it is flashing", nor the "attracts drunks like flashing lights on police cars do".

Now, as far as the kind of light I would like to ride behind, I'd prefer non-flashing.


That's a good idea. I'm glad I came across this thread, it got me thinking before I just hopped on the road. I'm young, never had a drivers license but have to get around and the bus isn't dependable. I have a lot of research, tests to do and emails to send. Thanks to everyone who contributed.