bluegirl
12-04-04, 11:44 PM
i received a txtmob message about it friday evening, but couldn't make it - did anyone go?
View Full Version : spontaneous NYC critical mass
vincenzosi
12-05-04, 09:43 AM
I didn't... How'd you get on the list?
slvoid
12-05-04, 10:01 AM
I can see no good coming from this.
If cops, especially during these volatile times, think that instead of having a huge mob every last friday, they'll be having huge mobs unexpectantly out of nowhere, they're more likely to clamp down on cyclists. Which means the other couple hundred thousand of us having our fun ruined by a couple hundred.
If cops, especially during these volatile times, think that instead of having a huge mob every last friday, they'll be having huge mobs unexpectantly out of nowhere, they're more likely to clamp down on cyclists. Which means the other couple hundred thousand of us having our fun ruined by a couple hundred.
vincenzosi
12-05-04, 10:01 AM
Good point.
Notice how we're agreeing more and more? I think you're having an affect on me...
Notice how we're agreeing more and more? I think you're having an affect on me...
Konakazi
12-05-04, 12:06 PM
Didn't hear about it. :/
nycm'er
12-06-04, 07:58 AM
But, wait, I don't want to stress the NYPD more than they are, but I am not so sure they could counter such things as flash mobs. Picture early critcal mass rides of only a few years ago, we would get to a distant neighborhood and some beat cop would have no idea what was going on. No idea what to do. Case in point the Brooklyn Mass Ride That Wasn't, with all 8 million cops and three riders, most of those cops had no idea what was going on, even the community outreach cops had really no idea but that they were ordered to obstruct bikes. Maybe with this recent Times editorial and the turn out at friday rides will shift the tide of blatent lopsided vehicular law enforcement. I don't think cops will ever give up doing their job, following what they are ordered to do, and I am very appreciative of that. But to counter flashmobs, they can't react that fast for a "threat" such as that when the only "threat" is really one of perceived political embarassment. Watching cops swarm to a shooting or witnessing downtown on the 11th was one thing, but reacting more that a few times to a "FlashMass", I don't know. As for taking out frustrations on random bikers, wouldn't that be akin to profiling? I am not that worried about that, but then again I have never been stopped for petty stuff (knocking on wood) and I know some of you have, esp, I think, Slvoid.
slvoid
12-06-04, 09:39 AM
I'm pretty sure the cops CAN counter such things. It's what they've been doing since the RNC. Imagine if they start nabbing every messenger and poseur and every guy riding about who even LOOKS reckless. Who's to say if we start these spontaneous flash mobs of bikers they won't start doing that.
I actually haven't been stopped for anything, ever. And that's the reason why I don't want the fuzz clamping down on my ass. I know it does nothing to promote the "safe cyclist" view but I pretty much run every light on my way to work, never stop at stop signs, go down 2 streets for a block the wrong way to save some time, and go on sidewalks when the streets are too crowded. Yes I know, it's bad, so I don't need anyone to lecture me on it. But it's a lot quicker than stopping at every light and I don't think I need the cops who usually LET me run a red when there are no cars around to start harassing and arresting me.
I actually haven't been stopped for anything, ever. And that's the reason why I don't want the fuzz clamping down on my ass. I know it does nothing to promote the "safe cyclist" view but I pretty much run every light on my way to work, never stop at stop signs, go down 2 streets for a block the wrong way to save some time, and go on sidewalks when the streets are too crowded. Yes I know, it's bad, so I don't need anyone to lecture me on it. But it's a lot quicker than stopping at every light and I don't think I need the cops who usually LET me run a red when there are no cars around to start harassing and arresting me.
slvoid
12-06-04, 09:40 AM
Good point.
Notice how we're agreeing more and more? I think you're having an affect on me...
Well let's hope you don't become too much like me. Otherwise, your family might disown you and your girlfriend will leave you. Also, your genitals will shrivel.
Notice how we're agreeing more and more? I think you're having an affect on me...
Well let's hope you don't become too much like me. Otherwise, your family might disown you and your girlfriend will leave you. Also, your genitals will shrivel.
neuron
12-06-04, 09:48 AM
indymedia has pictures (http://nyc.indymedia.org/feature/display/134516/index.php)
nycm'er
12-06-04, 10:26 AM
Isn't there a bigger picture here? or no? More people riding, safer, or just our riding? Slvoid, I thought you had been stopped, someone from here was stopped for a light or something stupid, almost a harrassment stop. May I argue your point for a moment? If the NYPD is going to stop bikers, I think they will stop any and everyone, not just those that look reckless.
What the NYPD has been doing since the RNC is pretty uninformed and slow reacting. Someone finally figured out what time the ride left, so they got there early in Nov. With Flash mobs, unless there was some cop infiltration, how do you get 8 cop vans, flat bed trucks, scooter cops and one of those pathetic loudspeaker trucks to say, in front of the Met at 8 on a Wednesday? I don't think you do, I think they can do it, but can they justify it? Picture that, such manpower and equipment rushing there for THAT reason? But that is my appraisal.
What I think is more important is what you brought up Slvoid, is the random backlash against bikers. I treat traffic control devices only as suggestions as well, I bet you and I would ride very well together. I only defer to people who are actually crossing with the light, which I would estimate is about a third of all people in the streets of NY. (I take exception with the sidewalk bit, city council members say that is the biggest complaint against bicycling in their communities. We can slug that out some other day.) I don't want to be bothered by the cops who let me slide either. But riding in NYC can be safer and enticing to even more bikers. Did you happen to be out this weekend? A glorious Sunday to ride, the city was inundated with knuckleheads who could have taken mass transit but decided to sit in traffic, and many of them break little laws that actually effect people. A red light here, a side walk parking there.... I am trying to come back around and say that I am not interested in appearing as a safe biker either, just as car drivers who are actually threatening do not care. Which gets ME back to the need for the citizens of NYC to show government and tourists/auto commuters that we are serious about protecting our rights and safety as we live and ride here. i.e. Crit Mass or otherwise.
What the NYPD has been doing since the RNC is pretty uninformed and slow reacting. Someone finally figured out what time the ride left, so they got there early in Nov. With Flash mobs, unless there was some cop infiltration, how do you get 8 cop vans, flat bed trucks, scooter cops and one of those pathetic loudspeaker trucks to say, in front of the Met at 8 on a Wednesday? I don't think you do, I think they can do it, but can they justify it? Picture that, such manpower and equipment rushing there for THAT reason? But that is my appraisal.
What I think is more important is what you brought up Slvoid, is the random backlash against bikers. I treat traffic control devices only as suggestions as well, I bet you and I would ride very well together. I only defer to people who are actually crossing with the light, which I would estimate is about a third of all people in the streets of NY. (I take exception with the sidewalk bit, city council members say that is the biggest complaint against bicycling in their communities. We can slug that out some other day.) I don't want to be bothered by the cops who let me slide either. But riding in NYC can be safer and enticing to even more bikers. Did you happen to be out this weekend? A glorious Sunday to ride, the city was inundated with knuckleheads who could have taken mass transit but decided to sit in traffic, and many of them break little laws that actually effect people. A red light here, a side walk parking there.... I am trying to come back around and say that I am not interested in appearing as a safe biker either, just as car drivers who are actually threatening do not care. Which gets ME back to the need for the citizens of NYC to show government and tourists/auto commuters that we are serious about protecting our rights and safety as we live and ride here. i.e. Crit Mass or otherwise.
DanFromDetroit
12-06-04, 10:37 AM
Just a technical note:
I doubt it would be that difficult for the cops to figure out how to find www.txtmob.com. If you want to make it expensive for them to harass cyclists; instead of one flash mob you would be better off with smaller, multiple, simultaneous mobs at widely dispersed locations.
Another thing: If all the folks getting arrested are getting court dates, the traffic courts should be getting pretty clogged by now. If they are not getting court dates, then I would say that hundreds of folks being arrested without being charged with anything would pretty plainly prove harassment. I would think a lawyer who was also a cyclist might consider a class-action suit.
Dan
Dan
I doubt it would be that difficult for the cops to figure out how to find www.txtmob.com. If you want to make it expensive for them to harass cyclists; instead of one flash mob you would be better off with smaller, multiple, simultaneous mobs at widely dispersed locations.
Another thing: If all the folks getting arrested are getting court dates, the traffic courts should be getting pretty clogged by now. If they are not getting court dates, then I would say that hundreds of folks being arrested without being charged with anything would pretty plainly prove harassment. I would think a lawyer who was also a cyclist might consider a class-action suit.
Dan
Dan
manboy
12-12-04, 07:04 PM
Guh...
I'm so tired of people behaving like scared little rodents.
Ride because you love it. Ride with a pack of peole because it makes you happy. Fill up the streets because bikes are beautiful.
Do I just feel this way because I don't live in NYC?
I'm so tired of people behaving like scared little rodents.
Ride because you love it. Ride with a pack of peole because it makes you happy. Fill up the streets because bikes are beautiful.
Do I just feel this way because I don't live in NYC?
andygates
12-13-04, 04:37 AM
Maybe, NYC seems to have a special warzone vibe from these postings.
vincenzosi
12-13-04, 05:24 AM
Do I just feel this way because I don't live in NYC?
Yes...
Next question?
Yes...
Next question?
neuron
12-15-04, 07:27 PM
Yeah. Getting arrested and sent to Pier 57 for a moving violation, then getting trumped up charges smacks of war to me. And they impound your bike until your case is dismissed (normally). It has made me look at the executive branch in a totally new and unfavorable light. I flinch when I see cops.
There's a definite change in atmosphere up here. I can't say I'm particularly happy about the treatment of us cyclists as a class. I've been commuting for a couple of years, and this is the worst it has been. I get antsy the last Friday of each month. That entire experience sucked, and I want no part of the police's intentions.
The silver lining: I needed to replace my impounded bike, and got into fixies. Somehow my bikes have multiplied, population: 3. In a cramped NYC apartment no less.
But I agree. Keep riding. Though I'm avoiding CM for a while until the nonsense of harassment dies down.
There's a definite change in atmosphere up here. I can't say I'm particularly happy about the treatment of us cyclists as a class. I've been commuting for a couple of years, and this is the worst it has been. I get antsy the last Friday of each month. That entire experience sucked, and I want no part of the police's intentions.
The silver lining: I needed to replace my impounded bike, and got into fixies. Somehow my bikes have multiplied, population: 3. In a cramped NYC apartment no less.
But I agree. Keep riding. Though I'm avoiding CM for a while until the nonsense of harassment dies down.
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