tsappenfield

I am absolutely fascinated by Sturmey-Archer hubs. I'm amazed at their engineering and durability. I've had fun taking them apart and putting them back together. Recently, I've been thinking about purchasing a "comfort bike" (obviously not vintage) and was wondering what bicycle manufactures are using the 21st century version of Sturmey-Archer hubs as standard equipment on their bikes. Any recommendations?

TSapp

photogravity

Linus uses the SA 3-speed and 5-speed hubs on their bikes. Also the new Cooper bikes use SA hubs exclusively.

auchencrow

[QUOTE=tsappenfield;13436793...... Recently, I've been thinking about purchasing a "comfort bike" (obviously not vintage)....[/QUOTE]

Oooh - scaarrrry!

Velognome 

Pashley= comfort with a SA Hub. I hear that if you ask for tea and an english muffin, they literally hand you a muffin with with jam.......ohhhhh so comfortable
.

photogravity

Indeed, Pashley's are purportedly immensely comfortable! Forgot all about them. <sigh>

tcs

Well...most S-A models. They've released some klunkers over the decades, too: the SW, the TCW, the StAr5 and the original 8-speed spring to mind.

Off the top of my head, not a great many in the N.A. market. In addition to those mentioned, of course there's Moulton, Brompton and Cooper as you might expect from UK marques. Then there's Dahon. Bikes Direct has a number of S-A equipped models. And let's not forget KMX and Terratrike.

Mr IGH

The 5 speed is a flame pile of caca. I ran one for about 2 years, tried to overhaul it but it isn't really set up to be overhauled, no index marks on the planetary gears, the indicator is held in place poorly (nothing like the AW). It also has a 180* engagement issue in some gears, the hub's lube leaks into the drum cavity. While trying to get this over-priced junker running again I dropped a Nexus 8 with roller brake on the bike. Night and day difference, the Shimano outclasses SA by miles. Not sure if I'll go back. I'd like to run an SA hub on one of my bikes but there's nothing out there worth having (perhaps I need to go back to an AW). i-Motion 9 is off the market ('cause it sucks too). Maybe the new SRAM IGHs will give some options.

Velognome 

Bikes Direct has or had a 3 speed fixed, SA's S3X hub. I've been riding that hub almost daily for 2 years and absolutley love it. There were some initial problems but SA corrected them quickly

rhm

The original 8-speed being the XRF8, I have to comment here, since I have used three different XRF8's since 2007 and one XRF8w (the new improved one).

My first XRF8 went onto a bike that I ended up not using much; that hub seems fine, but I have not used it enough to really test it out (less than 1000 miles I guess).

My second XRF8 came on a bike that used as my main commuter for over three years. The hub worked well at first, actually improving after the first 1000 miles. By the time I had put about 6000 miles on it (riding in all kinds of weather) it had gradually deteriorated and eventually sounded perfectly awful, though it still worked correctly. I thought the time was ripe for some proper maintenance, so in the spring of 2009 I took it to a bike shop to overhaul, and they (following instructions downloaded from the SA website) destroyed it. So they built me a new wheel, using the new XRF8w hub, which worked better but it always was a noisier hub. I rode that one for about 3000 miles before retiring that bike for other reasons (the hub is still fine).

My third XRF8 came on the bike I am using now. The manufacturer told me the hub is defective and accordingly gave me a $50 discount and a new XRF8w hub to put in myself (or have a shop do it). But I never did. I've been using that 'defective' hub for 4300 miles and it is, by far, the best IGH I have ever used. It is ideally suited to fast riding and fast acceleration. I cannot imagine a better bicycle transmission for riding in NYC city traffic (which is, I admit, not my favorite kind of riding).

For comparison, I have a Shimano Nexus 'red band' 8 speed hub on one bike, that I've put over 1000 miles on. It works fine, and has not required any maintenance, but it is, even at its best, not as nice as the XRF8. The steps between the gears are so uneven that I have never developed a good sense of when to shift. For this reason it is poorly suited to the way I ride in the city. It is fine for long lazy rides. I'm sure it is fine for most riders. I would rather have a Nexus 8 that works than a XRF8 that doesn't.

I don't know why some of the XRF8's were so bad. Evidently there were quality control issues and it was designed with tolerances that were too fine for the real world of large scale manufacturing. But if you get a good one, it's very good indeed.

Aside from that, obviously, publishing online instructions that tell you to remove the right ball cup clockwise, when it actually comes off counterclockwise, is an unforgivable mistake (or is it vice-versa? One way or the other, someone at Sturmey Archer really blew it). I can't speculate how many hubs were destroyed on account of that error.

Mr IGH

Ownership of SRAM and SA IGHs have made me into a Shimano IGH fanboy. My SA 90mm front dyno/drum is very nice, much better braking compared to the 70mm drum version.

tcs

Since this is the Classic & Vintage list, let's not overlook the Shimano 3.3.3. Occasionally someone actually got good service out of one.

A recent Shimano marketing blurb stated they'd been making IGHs for twenty-five years. Actually, it's been 54 years now - think maybe Shimano would like everyone to please just forget about their C&V era IGHs?

tcs

Was that the S5, S5-1, S5-2, StAr5, Sprinter, Summit or W model Sturmey 5-speed IGH?

lostarchitect 

Linus uses the Shimano 3-speed, I'm pretty sure.

Sirrus Rider

Especially the 333!

photogravity

Lostarchitect, indeed you are correct. I got my wires crossed. Linus uses only the SA 5-speed in their line, but use ****mano on the rest of their multi-gear bikes.

wahoonc

Nope no love here for SA hubs...yeah right! Last count; there are a grand total of 23 IGH bikes and only 2 of them currently sport Shimano Most of my hubs are the nearly indestructible AW or it's generator counterpart the AG. I have a couple of FG series hubs too. I just built up a set of wheels using the modern X-RD5 and the XL-FDD for my son's city bike.

I have not seen ANY IGH bikes in my LBS's and there are not many bikes available on the NA market with IGH, but it is getting better.

Aaron

BikeKraft

I currently have access to four bikes with IGHs. Three Sturmeys and a Shimano. I like them all but
my favorite is the XRF8 that came on my folder. Shifts nicely and has a gear for all occasions.
It's quiet and feels better after 2500+ miles, I hope it never craps out, though I'd replace it with the
current SA IGH 8 speed. My son's adult trike has a SA three speed with the thumb shifters, I have to admit
I really like the ease of the thumb shifter. I was hoping to upgrade his to a five speed but I'm concerned of
the reliability issues brought out in this forum. But I heard worse about the XRF8, knocking on wood.

John E

I still like the derailleur-epicyclic hybrid combos, such as my old 14-16-18-20 cogset on a standard S-A "wide ratio" 3-speed hub (AW?).

Velognome 

^ Sweet, just rebuilt a Cyclo 17-21 to go with an FW hub.....I'm a hybrid virgin.....this will be my first.

Captain Blight

I'm kind of a fan of the Sachs 415 Torpedo coaster-brake 3-speed hub. Very, very well-made units. The cones are so hard they'll dress a grinding wheel, and the machining is absolutely top-notch. My only hassle with them is that they take a cable that's impossible to find.

Sixty Fiver

For me the venerable SA AW and AG are the only way to go.

Have 2 1954 Aw's that are as smooth as butter on glass, a '64 Ag in my winter bike, and a "72 AW in my folder while my daughters have 1977 and 1980 AW hubs that are very smooth and the wife has a 1974 R20 with an AW.

Have an AG 451 wheelset that I might swap into my 406 equipped 20 too.

That is 7 Aw hubs in use here and none have ever caused me a speck of bother save for the Ag on my winter bike having it's non drive lockwasher fail.

3alarmer

Bottom line is that the old stuff and the new stuff are
not necessarily equivalent.....even the three speed.

But I'm happy to hear good reports regarding the new stuff,
which, depending on where you look on the internet, has
received some mixed reviews.

My question would be , does anyone feel they can comment
based on experience and knowledge with regard to the
similarities and differences of the older company's products
versus the new Sunrace guys?

Edit:Also, this might be of interest to you https://www.hadland.me.uk/page5.html

Mr IGH

I don't know about the older English built 5 speed hubs but my newer Asia built non-(W) isn't much to be proud of. I rode it two seasons with the factory lube, tolerating crappy shifting and 180* engagement slips. When I went to overhaul it it fell apart as I removed the guts from the shell. I ended up having to pull it apart to get it working, no index marks for the planetary gears means it's running rougher than it did new. Lube leaks into the drum cavity making the rear brakes very weak. I installed a Nexus 8R35 with roller brake in the meantime, now I am looking for a new rear hub. I'll think I'll wait for the SRAM products, maybe I should have my sanity checked after dropping $450 on the turd im9....

Grand Bois

I love my S5-2. I can't find a single fault with it. Same goes for my SRF3.

tcs

After dealing with them in the shop, Sheldon thought the new Taiwanese stuff was easily the equal of the old British stuff, and for the most part better.

In ~2000 SunRace bought the intellectual property rights and tooling for the Sturmey-Archer line. This included the in-production AW, Summit range ball-locking 5-speeds, all the many drum brake models and newly developed 8-speed. It also included an obscure design they'd done for Columbia some fifteen years prior, modifying the classic three-speed with a third ratchet and constant positive locking into the gear ratios (the "no in-between gear", or NIG).

SunRace discovered most of the old British tooling was worn out. They bought new, modern computer controlled machine tools and put the special AW-NIG mechanism in production in a new, polished-aluminum thick-flange hub in a model called the S-RF3. They've since expanded this to a large family of three-speed aluminum and steel hub shell models with high and low flanges and coaster, drum and disc brakes.

They returned the British-designed Summit ball-locking 5-speed to production. This model had a mixed service history and they replaced it two years ago with the new Taiwanese design "W" 5-speeds.

They got the 8-speed into production. Occasionally someone got good service out of one, but for the most part it was a troublesome, short service-life hub. It has been replaced with the evolved, far beefier "W" 8-speed.

SunRace has taken the Sturmey-Archer heritage and run with it. They've introduced modern Dynohubs, a two-speed kick-back (strange but true: this hub is patterned after the Fitchel&Sachs Duomatic of the 1960s) and a new fixed-gear three speed, the S3X. They added the inside-the-dropouts rotary gear selector (developed by Sturmey in 1970) to the AW-NIG to make the RS-RF3 hub. They offer more different types of shifters than any other IGH company by far.

My take on it: In just ten short years SunRace is letting Sturmey-Archer become the company Raleigh never* let them be in the previous century.



*Well, the mid-to-late 1930s were a high point.