Commuting - You know who you are- Stop giving cyclists a bad name

I'm not going to name any names, but you know who you are (Guy on a road bike with red tires, cable lock around your seatpost, wearing a yellow shirt with long black sleeves riding on Greenburg Rd. in Tigard, OR today at 5:01pm). When you passed me while I waited my turn in the left turn lane at Greenburg and Tiedeman/North Dakota, you riding in the lane that was supposed to go straight through the light (you weren't in the bike lane, but plugging up the car lane) and you passed everyone in the left turn lane and then turned left anyway. Pulling this kind of crap is what gives cyclists a bad name. Wait your turn like everybody else. But I guess since you're super slow (I passed you on the trail about a mile later, even though I had to wait two lights and you had a big head start) you have to take every advantage you can get.

Sorry to everyone else who had to listen to me rant. And if Mr. red tires is reading this, you can apologize for screwing it up for the rest of us.

I filter to the front of the LTO lane by using the left side of the straight-only lane, too. Then I park my butt next to the front car in the LTO and get off to the side and out of everyone's way after making my turn when the light goes green.

I hear this kind of crap all the time and really it is mind boggling. Do you know that car that cut me off yesterday, well did he give all cars a bad name? Do you know that the police have all whole traffic sections dedicated to bad car and truck drivers, at least they do in my city. They even have red light cameras and photo radar for vehicles that break the law. But nowhere do I see vehicles getting a bad name because of these infractions. Go to traffic court, you will see thousands of people trying to fight their "mistakes" in court. Somehow vehicles don't have "bad names".

I will admit there are bad cyclists but guess what that number is tenfold when it comes to motorized vehicles on the road. I see bad drivers every few minutes. And I really don't think they are ruining for the rest of them.

And I love these holier than thou cyclists because we all break the law. Some infractions smaller than others but none the less infractions. I have yet to meet a cyclist that follow all the rules of the road. Then again maybe you are one perfect cyclist.

And for the cyclist that will no doubt blow past the stop sign this morning without even looking, someday Darwin's Theory will catch up and we won't even need to have a discussion.

Yesterday on my commute I saw a car run a four way, two made red-light rights without stopping, when I rode over the highway I knew everyone was going 10~15mph over the limit. Why don't cagers feel compelled to accept responsibility for every driver's bad behavior as you feel the need to accept responsibility for all bad bike riders?


I filter to the front of the LTO lane by using the left side of the straight-only lane, too....

I don't do this, too dangerous. Instead, I hold the lane and force cars behind me to wait while I clear the intersection. If the speed limt is over 35mph, I abandon the road and use the crosswalk.

Does my riding in a black evening gown without shaving give cyclists a bad name too?

The reason the OP is making a big deal is because people are stupid and they make ridiculous prejudices based on things like running red lights and passing cars who are waiting their turn.

the "holier than thou" OP waits his turn because he is an adult and that's what grown-ups do. If you went to the bank and just cut in front of 20 people in line and claimed that you did it because you can, do you think everyone would just keep their mouth shut? how the hell do you think that makes everyone else in line feel? Cyclists are not better than automobile drivers, so why do they think they can just cut in front of a line of 25 cars and that no one will have their feelings hurt.

My advice for all of those cyclist out there who just breeze across town riding wherever and however they want regardless of the law............GROW UP

If I didn't ride past cars stopped at lights, I would be in a very small minority, at least in DC. Riding a bike gives you a free pass to the front of the line, including any bikes waiting in line.

If I didn't ride past cars stopped at lights, I would be in a very small minority, at least in DC. Riding a bike gives you a free pass to the front of the line, including any bikes waiting in line.

My city friends all do this, I try to get them to hold the lane as a group riding double file but city hipsters can't be edjumacated. So many bike rider deaths due to right hooks....

If I didn't ride past cars stopped at lights, I would be in a very small minority, at least in DC. Riding a bike gives you a free pass to the front of the line, including any bikes waiting in line.

And the same goes for motorcycles and scooters, it seems, never mind just bikes.

Does my riding in a black evening gown without shaving give cyclists a bad name too?

No idea!

Why don't you try it and let us know!
BTW; pics are the proof!

no idea!

Why don't you try it and let us know!
Btw; pics are the proof!

+1 :d

No idea!

Why don't you try it and let us know!
BTW; pics are the proof!

remind me to go out to Portland for the Pretty Dress ride next year! :D

http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pretty_dress.jpg

Does my riding in a black evening gown without shaving give cyclists a bad name too?

Only if you wear white socks, or sparkly open toed shoes after September 21, with said evening gown.

the "holier than thou" OP waits his turn because he is an adult and that's what grown-ups do. If you went to the bank and just cut in front of 20 people in line and claimed that you did it because you can, do you think everyone would just keep their mouth shut? how the hell do you think that makes everyone else in line feel? Cyclists are not better than automobile drivers, so why do they think they can just cut in front of a line of 25 cars and that no one will have their feelings hurt.

I acknowledge that the situation OP posited was not quite the norm as I experience it, as he seemed to indicate that in this instance the filtering cyclist was, in fact, impeding the car traffic. The far more common situation, in my experience is that cyclists filter in ways that do not impede motorists, or any other road users. I will freely acknowledge that I regularly filter, as do most cyclists, in many situations. Why? Because I can do so ~without~ negatively impacting other road users. When traffic is stopped at a light, and I can safely (in my opinion) move to the front of said traffic, I do so. This does ~not~ impact the car drivers sitting in their cages, as they remain as they were: Stopped. Likewise, when the light turns green, I am not generally slowing them down (in fact, it is rare that I am not the first/quickest vehicle across most urban intersections, despite my horsepower deficit) as I am most often heading for a space that they cannot or will not occupy.

Likewise, I do not demand that cars remain behind me for long stretches on two lane roads. First of all, I try to give cars passing space where it is safe for me to do so. I take the lane only where I deem it absolutely necessary to protect my safety. I get annoyed at those who buzz me, but they are few, and sometimes I know I have invited it by NOT taking the lane. Further, I may grumble about the cars who cross the center line to pass me, but I do not paint all car drivers as being of their stripe. Would I prefer that they did not? sure. Would I prefer that the lanes were wide enough to allow a bicycle to travel without impeding car traffic in any way? Sure.

So yes, in the situation OP posited, I would agree that it ~sounds~ as though our fellow cyclist acted rudely, but I do not agree that all filtering, in all situations, is immature or improper.

I filter to the front of the LTO lane by using the left side of the straight-only lane, too. Then I park my butt next to the front car in the LTO and get off to the side and out of everyone's way after making my turn when the light goes green.

I used to do this, but it was just too dangerous, in my opinion. Cars would do weird things when you're side-by-side with them, none of them safe.

Now I just take the lane whenever I'm turning left. It makes me more visible and my intentions are clear, and cars don't try to jockey around me by doing dangerous crap in the oncoming traffic. My acceleration is finally good enough so that I don't slow down the traffic behind me through the turn, too. I rarely have an issue doing this.

I hear this kind of crap all the time and really it is mind boggling. Do you know that car that cut me off yesterday, well did he give all cars a bad name? Do you know that the police have all whole traffic sections dedicated to bad car and truck drivers, at least they do in my city. They even have red light cameras and photo radar for vehicles that break the law. But nowhere do I see vehicles getting a bad name because of these infractions. Go to traffic court, you will see thousands of people trying to fight their "mistakes" in court. Somehow vehicles don't have "bad names".


I agree that it's ridiculous to assume that one cyclist can give all cyclists a bad name. Unfortunately that's reality. When I started bicycle commuting I received a lot of crap from my coworkers who said things like "I can't stand you ******** and how you guys just run reds and weave in traffic". It didn't matter to them that I followed every law. Cyclists are rare enough that one doing things the wrong way is going to stick out in their minds, regardless if they're a rarity or not. If a car does things the wrong way, there's more than enough cars on the road doing things the right way to prevent all car drivers from being painted with that brush. It's just reality, and we have to deal with it.

If I didn't ride past cars stopped at lights, I would be in a very small minority, at least in DC. Riding a bike gives you a free pass to the front of the line, including any bikes waiting in line.
:notamused:
I hate it when I get stuck behind the same turkey until a break in traffic lets me pass him and then he cuts back in front of me two, three, or more traffic lights in a row. It is bad form to put yourself in front of another bicycle who's stopped for a traffic light.

I agree that it's ridiculous to assume that one cyclist can give all cyclists a bad name. Unfortunately that's reality. When I started bicycle commuting I received a lot of crap from my coworkers who said things like "I can't stand you ******** and how you guys just run reds and weave in traffic". It didn't matter to them that I followed every law. Cyclists are rare enough that one doing things the wrong way is going to stick out in their minds, regardless if they're a rarity or not. If a car does things the wrong way, there's more than enough cars on the road doing things the right way to prevent all car drivers from being painted with that brush. It's just reality, and we have to deal with it.

I think your example here may prove the opposite of what you intended....that driver's perceptions are based more on the majority of cyclists they encounter rather than on the exceptions...like you in this case.

I agree that it's ridiculous to assume that one cyclist can give all cyclists a bad name. Unfortunately that's reality......

+1

The primary reason obnoxious drivers don't necessarily give all other drivers a bad name is because everybody drives. Few people will vilify a group that they themselves are a part of, and another 3000lb. vehicle is instantly perceived as a potential threat by most other drivers.

Cyclists however, being a significant minority, are prime targets for blanket vilification because we are a minority, because a driver in a 3000lb. car looks at a cyclist on a 25lb. bicycles and their first impression is " no threat there", and because unless we are in a group we will not have witnesses to any aggression against a lone cyclist.

If you don't see the anomosity and apathy displayed by many drivers to all bicycles that they encounter, I would suggest that you don't commute by bicycle or that you mainly ride in groups. Over 40 years of riding on the road has proven to me that how I dress, what I ride, how I ride, and how courteous I am to other road users has a significant effect on how drivers treat me. Every arrogant cyclist that ignores stop signs and red lights, or blocks the driver's right-of-way by riding two abreast on narrow roads, puts all of us at higher risk.

I hear this kind of crap all the time and really it is mind boggling. Do you know that car that cut me off yesterday, well did he give all cars a bad name?

Stop trying to bring logic into an emotional rant about "other cyclists are ruining cycling." ;)

The problem is people. They find a way to screw up everything.

The problem is people. They find a way to screw up everything.

No worries, in December 2012 the Mayan remedies kick in. :eek:

It is bad form to put yourself in front of another bicycle who's stopped for a traffic light.

Agreed, unless the other bike rider is waiting in line behind cars, or the other bike rider looks slower than me (which is usually the case :D).

I think your example here may prove the opposite of what you intended....that driver's perceptions are based more on the majority of cyclists they encounter rather than on the exceptions...like you in this case.

Not necessarily. They merely are under the impression that most cyclists break traffic rules. In my experience, most cyclists I've met on the roads seem to be obeying them. Of course, the plural of anecdote is not data, so I can't say with certainty that's the case, but I personally have not witnessed cyclists at large wantonly breaking laws.

Does my riding in a black evening gown without shaving give cyclists a bad name too?

Good god yes!

it's the same with the rest of life...stereotypes are everywhere..cycling is no different.

all you can do is do what you think is right.

I think of it more as idiots vs normal people...whether they're walking, driving or biking

it's the same with the rest of life...stereotypes are everywhere..cycling is no different.

all you can do is do what you think is right.


THIS is exactly how I feel. I started bike commuting to work a few months ago, and I can't tell you how many times I've started to write a post on this forum like "I'm so mad that a dozen people ran red lights past me today", and "they're giving cyclists a bad name in the minds of car drivers", etc. But I always stop myself from posting, because when it comes down to it, all I have control over -- read as: all I really care about :) --is my own riding habits. If I don't want to get killed at an intersection I stop at the red light, end of story. Even if those 12 people I saw read this forum and thought, "Hey, I think I'll stop at the light from now on" the motorists would still think we're all a bunch of anarchist road hogging daredevil jerks. Haha

I get a sense that sub-consciously I (and maybe other folks) wanted to write all of those posts to tell everyone here, "Hey, look at me, I'm a law-abiding cyclist, whoop dee doo", but at the end of the day, who cares. All that really affects is me, and my lower chances of getting turned into paste by the tires of a bus. Yay for me.

Oh, and to the OP, I sit and wait at a red light in a left-turn only lane every night on my way home from work, so regardless of my cynical soapbox comment, I know what you mean.

Most cyclists in my neighboring city either salmon up the roads, or ride on sidewalks, and both have unwritten erratic rules with negotiating traffic or "lanes" (i.e. cut across a 6 lane intersection to get to the other sidewalk). Motorists have no choice but to treat them as erratic pedestrians, as they are a constant disruption.

Ironically, hipsters are generally the most consistent and traffic-law following cyclists in this area! So are recreational roadies, but they generally are off on country roads, and would rather drive their cars in-town.

remind me to go out to Portland for the Pretty Dress ride next year! :D

http://bikeportland.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/pretty_dress.jpg


ew!

ew!

Come on, it's not that bad . . . at least they shaved their legs.

. . . at least they shaved their legs.

That ain't helping.

Not necessarily. They merely are under the impression that most cyclists break traffic rules. In my experience, most cyclists I've met on the roads seem to be obeying them. Of course, the plural of anecdote is not data, so I can't say with certainty that's the case, but I personally have not witnessed cyclists at large wantonly breaking laws.

Kinda hard to say for certain what any driver's impression of cyclists is unless they have stated them. I would speculate that if a driver's impression is that cyclists wantonly break the law, one of the following is probably true:

1. the majority of cyclists they have observed have been breaking the law
2. the last cyclist they observed was breaking the law
3. they are merely parroting what they have read of heard

I ride like I'm invisible. That means sometimes I might break the law. If I can safely make it through an intersection, I will. I don't care about what anybody thinks about me as long as I live to ride another day. I would rather make aggressive decisions and live with the results, than get smashed by a car from behind while I am stopped waiting for a light. Having a "good name" isn't going to save your life. I am all for being courteous and sharing the road but I'm going to look out for myself first.

Most negative opinions of bikes "at large" are based on the fact that bikes are slow, in the way, move unpredictably, fall over, are hard to see and are a general nuisance. Not much you can do to change that. Following traffic laws could help, but could make things worse, such as getting in the way more often.

These scofflaws disgust me.

What's wrong with having red tires or carrying a lock with you? I've recently learned that if you get hit by a car in NYC, the ambulance and police will force you to just leave your bike on the side of the road. I'd rather carry a lock so at least there's a chance my bike will still be there.

I'm with the OP. I can't stand cyclists who flagrantly disobey the law. It really does give other cyclists a bad name. Yes, someone said Darwin will catch up to these people, but that isn't soon enough as far as I'm concerned. They need to die NOW.

Screw those cyclists who bike as if they can do what they want and screw anyone reading this who advocates this mentality in the slightest.

Damn I'm pis.sed off.

I hear this kind of crap all the time and really it is mind boggling. Do you know that car that cut me off yesterday, well did he give all cars a bad name? Do you know that the police have all whole traffic sections dedicated to bad car and truck drivers, at least they do in my city. They even have red light cameras and photo radar for vehicles that break the law. But nowhere do I see vehicles getting a bad name because of these infractions.

It's unfortunate, but it all has to do with our status as "others." When car driver #1 sees car driver #2 behaving badly, driver 1 puts driver 2 into the category of "bad drivers." Because driver 1 isn't a bad driver (in his/her mind), so good and bad drivers are clearly distinct groups.

When that same driver sees a cyclist behaving badly, the cyclist isn't part of some "bad cyclist" group, unless the driver also rides a bike in traffic sometimes. They're just another cyclist, and therefore cyclists don't follow the rules.

Is it a pain? Sure. But it's how peoples minds work, and we're not going to change that. What we can do is complain about bad cyclists and - given the opportunity - try to educate them to be better ambassadors of cycling.

1. the majority of cyclists they have observed have been breaking the law
2. the last cyclist they observed was breaking the law
3. they are merely parroting what they have read of heard

I would say that the last cyclist they noticed or remember was breaking the law. When you easily overtake a cyclist, you think nothing of it. When you slam on your brakes because someone ran the light in front of you, it scares the **** out of you, and you remember it. Cars, on the other hand, are everywhere. You pay particular attention to them when they are driving badly, but it can hardly escape your notice that you're sharing the road with them almost constantly. I seem to remember studies showing that cars are no more or less law-abiding then bikes, that their rate of traffic infractions are about the same. But cyclists still get the bad rap, which means something other than a simple trend towards lawlessness is at work.

For this reason, rants about "giving cyclists a bad name" strike me as counter productive. There's already no evidence to suggest that cyclists are less law-abiding, so drivers making those arguments are either pre-disposed against cyclists or pre-disposed to remember law-breaking cyclists. In either case, nothing short full compliance from all cyclists paired with full knowledge of proper cycling from all motorists will solve the problem. Neither seems likely,but ranting against law-breaking cyclists one at a time does not seem like a path towards the general public's acceptance of our place on the road.

No matter how many cyclists obey the law, there will always be people upset with us. Currently the popular excuse is how cyclists are breaking the law. If we all obeyed the law, then they'd just change their excuse (too slow, endangering themselves, just don't belong on the road), its sort of like politics in that regard. Many people just feel awkward driving near cyclists. That feels bad, its therefore your fault for making them feel bad.

I think cycling also catches some of the pent up frustrations of society in general. Political correctness means that it is no longer socially acceptable to hate groupings of people based on a wide variety of categorizations (race, gender, etc). Though its perfectly acceptable to hate based on political affiliation, smoking, type of vehicle you drive, being a cyclist and your favorite sports teams.

Does my riding in a black evening gown without shaving give cyclists a bad name too?

Yes.

Thanks to all who have responded. So I can clarify my original post, I wasn't trying to have a holier than thou attitude, although I hesitated in publishing the post because I knew it might come across that way. And maybe I was a little irked because I waited like a good boy and he cheated and got away with it (this time). Just like if I was taking a test and saw people cheating while the teacher was out of the room. You can bet your biscuits I'm going to tell on each and every one of them if their cheating is going to have a negative impact on my bottom line. I know the offender in question is unlikely to read this, or change their behavior even if they do- but I was hoping it would spark a debate about how we act out there on the road, and I think it has at least done that. Hopefully it makes each of us think a little more carefully about our riding habits. I'm not always a saint when I ride, so I don't mean to be hypocritical- but as my awareness grows I try to be more responsible.

I'm with gecho on this one; even if we all followed the letter of the law tomorrow, motorists wouldn't accept us on the roads. We're too slow, and our presence requires them to pay more attention. We are an extreme and (in the motorists' minds) inconvenient minority, and no amount of putting your foot down at every stop sign is going to change that.

This is what many a law-abiding cyclist thinks when seeing a scofflaw cyclist:

I can't stand cyclists who flagrantly disobey the law. It really does give other cyclists a bad name. Yes, someone said Darwin will catch up to these people, but that isn't soon enough as far as I'm concerned. They need to die NOW.

Screw those cyclists who bike as if they can do what they want and screw anyone reading this who advocates this mentality in the slightest.

Damn I'm pis.sed off.

And this what many a motorist thinks when seeing even a law-abiding cyclist:

I can't stand cyclists. Yes, someone said Darwin will catch up to these people, but that isn't soon enough as far as I'm concerned. They need to die NOW.

Screw those cyclists and screw anyone reading this who advocates this activity in the slightest.

Damn I'm pis.sed off.

neil points out in post #38 that we are viewed as "others", and he's right. The problem is that we will always be others no matter how we ride, because even law abiding cyclists stick out in a modern traffic system like a sore thumb. Until a whole hell of a lot more people start using bikes as transportation, this is going to remain the case.

And maybe I was a little irked because I waited like a good boy and he cheated and got away with it (this time).

Don't worry; it's not just this time. He got away with it every day for the past few years, and will continue to.

And maybe I was a little irked because I waited like a good boy and he cheated and got away with it (this time).

I'm a little confused on what was sooo bad about this? I ride in pretty heavy traffic most of my commute. There are times in the left turn lane situation where I will filter between lanes up to the front of the left turn. I usually try to stay in the left turn lane while doing so, but sometimes I have to go into the straight lane for a moment. I'm going the same, or close to the same speed as the cars in the straight lane and don't pull out in front of anyone. Lane filtering is legal, as in, there is no law restricting in CA.

I'm a little confused on what was sooo bad about this?

It's perceived as a form of cutting in line. Even if it isn't illegal, it's still considered rude. Whether or not you let that bother you is up to you.

I ride like I'm invisible. That means sometimes I might break the law. If I can safely make it through an intersection, I will. I don't care about what anybody thinks about me as long as I live to ride another day. I would rather make aggressive decisions and live with the results, than get smashed by a car from behind while I am stopped waiting for a light. Having a "good name" isn't going to save your life. I am all for being courteous and sharing the road but I'm going to look out for myself first.

In over 40 years I have never been smashed by a car from behind while waiting at a light. I have seen more than a few cyclists smashed from a car from the side running a light tho.

Damn I'm pis.sed off.

Look at the bright side...you ain't being pissed on. ;)

Thanks to all who have responded. So I can clarify my original post, I wasn't trying to have a holier than thou attitude, although I hesitated in publishing the post because I knew it might come across that way. And maybe I was a little irked because I waited like a good boy and he cheated and got away with it (this time). Just like if I was taking a test and saw people cheating while the teacher was out of the room. You can bet your biscuits I'm going to tell on each and every one of them if their cheating is going to have a negative impact on my bottom line. I know the offender in question is unlikely to read this, or change their behavior even if they do- but I was hoping it would spark a debate about how we act out there on the road, and I think it has at least done that. Hopefully it makes each of us think a little more carefully about our riding habits. I'm not always a saint when I ride, so I don't mean to be hypocritical- but as my awareness grows I try to be more responsible.

Well one point that nobody has made....there outta be a law against red tires.

It's perceived as a form of cutting in line. Even if it isn't illegal, it's still considered rude. Whether or not you let that bother you is up to you.

I can see that, I've just never consider it to be rude as a driver or rider. I am usually almost all the way across the intersection of the left turn by the time the next car behind me even starts to turn. All the streets that I would do it on, I also make sure that I am out of the way of the cars behind once through the turn. I guess as usual, it all comes down to individual circumstance.