Fifty Plus (50+) - Your experience with GPS?

I'm thinking of getting a GPS unit that I can use on my bicycle, hiking and canoeing trips. I've narrowed it down to the Garmin Marine (waterproof/floats)GPSMap78s or the Garmin Land (sinks but waterproof) GPSMap62s. The 62s has a bicycle handlebar mount.

I already have a pretty good bike computer with elevation and heartrate. It only gives me totals and averages. I can't plot my rides...but I don't really care to.

What is your experience with GPS? What unit do you use? Is GPS worthwhile for a cyclist, or is it just for techno-weanies?

FWIW. There was a guy a year or two who had a GPS in his car. He got into Oregon mountains in the winter and GPS led him astray. It was fatal. They don't show snowbanks and washed out roads. Something to consider.

Just got a Dakota 20, for use in our abandoned cemetery project. Needed the ability to download maps, and wanted touchscreen. This one had the best reviews (that I was able to find). Not enough time on it to make a recommendation though.

I used to use a GPSMap60CS, but the handlebar mount did not hold up well on the bike. I have used the Garmin Edge 305 on the bike for years and loved it as a bike computer - it had no maps. I recently upgraded to the 800 touch screen model with map display and it is awesome. Very easy to load in routes generated on my computer as well. That said the 62 sounds like an updated model of my 60 and should handle your tasks easily. I don't know if they changed the garmin bike mount for it. The one for the 60 was a plastic cradle that would crack after a while. While I love my new 800, the screen is on the small side compared to my 60. As for marine use I put my 60 in a waterproof case when I take it out in my kayak.

I have a Garmin Vista HcX. I've used it on two tours. I downloaded the gps information from two Adventure Cycling tours - the Lewis and Clark and the Great Divide. For the Lewis and Clark I bought the DVD with street maps. For the Great Divide I bought the DVD with topo maps.

On the first tour the gps was barely helpful - mostly because I didn't know how to set it up and use the ACD waypoints. You have to create your own routes and import the waypoints you want - ACA gives you every possible waypoint on multiple (alternative) routes. The gps doesn't have any idea where you want to go.

By the time I was preparing for the Great Divide, I had done some more research and had a better idea. It took many hours to import waypoints and create routes for the first 14 days of my tour. I ran out of time. If I had ridden more than 14 days I would have had to rely on maps. That wouldn't have been a bad thing, I guess, because I made at least one mistake in setting things up, and one day my gps was telling me to go straight when everyone with a map was telling me to turn right. We sat and discussed it for awhile, then decided to follow the map. Good thing! Also there are places where the Garmin topo maps don't show the trails or roads that the Great Divide follows. It won't let you "bushwack" - instead it tries to backtrack and go around to get to the next waypoint.

My conclusion for my experience with the Great Divide route was that the gps was very helpful (and really convenient - no stopping to peer at maps, no unfolding and refolding, stuffing and restuffing maps into map pockets) - especially to confirm what those with the maps had said, but the bottom line was that the maps were better.

On my road tour the gps came in handy a few times for things like finding motels and finding restaurants. I also dropped off a rental car somewhere in Portland, Oregon (Alamo's terminal isn't close to the airport - who'd a thunk?) and had to ride to the Amtrak station, which was several miles away. The gps took me right there. It put me on a busy arterial with no shoulder, but it was easy to move a block away and stay on track. (The little gps doesn't say "Recalculating", it just beeps.

The topo maps didn't have any points of interest, so I couldn't use it for finding motels, restaurants, etc. on the Great Divide tour. Luckily one of my mates had an Iphone. He took care of all of that kind of thing.

The only reason I'd have one is to plot a ride I am attending. And even then it's not like you can't just follow all the other bikes in front of you. Plus (as I always say), you can use a smart phone to do that same thing.
And if you can out-ride your ability to find your way back, you are a better rider than I.

On my road tour the gps came in handy a few times for things like finding motels and finding restaurants. I also dropped off a rental car somewhere in Portland, Oregon (Alamo's terminal isn't close to the airport - who'd a thunk?) and had to ride to the Amtrak station, which was several miles away. The gps took me right there. It put me on a busy arterial with no shoulder, but it was easy to move a block away and stay on track. (The little gps doesn't say "Recalculating", it just beeps.

The topo maps didn't have any points of interest, so I couldn't use it for finding motels, restaurants, etc. on the Great Divide tour. Luckily one of my mates had an Iphone. He took care of all of that kind of thing.
Easy enough to load both the road maps (with business POIs) and the topo maps into your Garmin GPS and then switch between them as needed. The iPhone is fine in areas that have cellular coverage but not so good elsewhere - and keeping it charged can be a problem.

I've been using a GPS in lieu of a cycle computer for over 12 years now and have found it very useful. The maps and POIs have been great to have on tours (what restaurants are nearby, what's the location/phone number of a motel when the weather turns bad, etc.), and they've also been helpful in local riding when I've been able to check if a certain road goes through or what I can use as a shortcut home if it starts to get late. It has also been handy to keep track of where I've taken pictures. The photos have the exact time recorded on them and that can be combined with the timed tracklog of the GPS to identify the location. I upload my GPS tracklogs and photos to the EveryTrail.com site that automatically shows where each picture was taken.

The 62s model is very versatile for a variety of outdoor activities, but, as mentioned above, the handlebar mount is prone to cracking from road vibration. Adding a rubber band helps to keep the GPS from jiggling in the mount and eventually causing it to crack. For canoeing it's easy to add a floater to the wristband so it won't sink if dropped overboard.

I have the bottom of the range Garmin Etrex. The simple yellow one, now replaced by the similar Etrex H. It doesn't have any mapping built-in but simply allows me to follow a pre-planned route.

I bought the GPS unit after doing one 200 km audax (randonneuring event) working from a route sheet. I found having to constantly monitor the sheet and my bike computer to work out which turns to take was stressful, error-prone and completely spoiled my enjoyment of the ride. I like to look at the scenery and relax when I'm out on my bike.

Discovering that even many of my very experienced randonneuring pals still took wrong turns on a regular basis convinced me that GPS was the way to go. I bought a copy of Memory Map with a digital map covering the entire UK at 1:50,000 scale and use that to plot all my routes, but there are lots of websites that allow you do that online. When I'm finished, I upload the route data to my GPS and I'm good to go.

I have navigated well over 10,000 miles of organised rides with the Etrex now and the only times I went off course were when I was busy talking and forgot to look at it.

I know many people who use more advanced GPS models with onboard mapping. They are useful if you like to improvise routes out on the road, or if you find your planned route is blocked for some reason. (I got caught out on a 140 mile ride home from a family visit when Snake Pass was closed for resurfacing. Fortunately, I knew an alternative route to bypass that section!)

I highly recommend navigating by GPS, but I'd always suggest that you carry a paper map too, just in case.

Garmin 305. I liked it. Now for rides where battery life is not an issue, I use the iPhone/Cyclometer combo.

The very best use is when I go on a club ride on an unfamiliar route. If I like the route it's easy to follow on my own. In rural Kentucky, road signs are only optional, so it's kept out of trouble more than once.

I've also been using a Garmin eTrex Vista HCx for several years. I got it for geocaching, then started hiking and used it for that, then when I started biking I bought a handlebar mount so as to use it on my mountain bike. I installed the OpenCycling map for my area in it, so I now get most of the biking trails shown. I record my bike trips and then put them into a computer program to look at and store the data. I also load in road maps once in a while.

The Vista is waterproof by the IPX7 standard. You could always attach a float or something to the lanyard, I guess. It's an excellent GPSr for the money, IMHO. It's proven itself invaluable several times when I've gotten disoriented out in the boonies. And the LCD display is phenomenal... it can be read in bright direct sunlight as well as darkness. The only drawback is the gasket around the edge needs to be cleaned and re-glued every couple of years.

I aso use a Garmin car unit, and an iPod touch with GPS and 3G add-ons. The iPod touch is nice, because I generally ride solo, and I can set it to send my location at intervals on a map to my Facebook and Twitter accounts (as well as email to friends).

GPS is not a cure-all. It needs to be used with some awareness of the limitations of the technology and, more importantly, the accuracy of the maps being used. But I wouldn't leave home without it. And plenty of spare batteries.

no doubt you've already acquired a GPS by now. you did not mention what type phone you use? iPhone 4 here. I use it to track (map) and capture speed/cadence/distance from Garmin SC10 unit. I have been commuting and doing charity rides with it. since a couple generations of hardware and iOS updates back I have never run out of battery. My last metric century was a lot of fun. When it was done I was amazed how much battery I had left more than 75% battery by the way. Granted the new iPhone 4S is a new animal and yes it has a battery problem which appears to be a software fault and related to time zone issues? Surely they will resolve that sooner than later as they have previously with other issues. If you are doing longer rides than centuries get an external battery pack for it if you really think it won't make it that far. Other smartphones will work as well. I like using the iPhone as it's one less thing I have to carry or attach to the bike. If I have any problem the phone is right there. now all I need to do is figure out how to use the iPhone to make me go faster...

I use a Garmin 76CSX for tours and sunday rides to different places. It was the key to doing the Southern Tier....as I would approach a small town, I always used it to locate motels, etc....Adventure Cycling's maps had some motels, but not all....Originally I bought a Garmin bike mount for it....a plastic waste of money that got shredded by chip seal road riding. Went up onto a motorcycle web site and got one there...bulletproof.

I used a Garmin 305 and now a Garmn 500. I don't ride in unknown places often, but the ability to upload a track is a good feature. I enjoy the numbers, though I don't get as much use from them as I should. A GPS unit makes for a fun an interesting toy.

I am another happy Garmin eTrex Vista HCx user. On tours it has helped me to find important points of interest, like the nearest hotel, restaurant, or convenience store. I have used it to get unlost, find ways around detours, and find my location when road names on signs do not match road names on the map.

For routing, I generally set it to use the car/motorcycle option and have it avoid highways. The routing is reasonable, but like others have noted, must be used with care.

I embrace my Tech-NO-weaniness. I use a Garmin 305 to track miles and convince my wife that I am a stud. I have a BB Bold that I use for map functions.

I am interested in how you would use the GPS with a canoe. I enjoy paddling around, but can't see myself getting lost in the waters here in the SW. Canada is probably more intense with ways to get lost. Fill me in.

I am interested in how you would use the GPS with a canoe. I enjoy paddling around, but can't see myself getting lost in the waters here in the SW. Canada is probably more intense with ways to get lost. Fill me in.
Can't speak for the OP, but I use my GPS when canoeing and kayaking. One reason is to record the trip and know where pictures were taken. Here's one example of a kayak trip where there was never any doubt of our location, but having the GPS made it easy to show the pictures and route:
http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=1136105

The GPS has also come in handy on some trips where it let me know how far to go to the arranged take-out point and to confirm when we had arrived (bridges can frequently look pretty similar from the river). And when seakayaking out on the bay or ocean it has been very useful when the fog rolled in and hid all the landmarks.

FWIW. There was a guy a year or two who had a GPS in his car. He got into Oregon mountains in the winter and GPS led him astray. It was fatal. They don't show snowbanks and washed out roads. Something to consider.

Sorry, that's like saying it's bad to use a map because a guy got hit by a car while on a ride, but he didn't see it coming as he was checking his route map.

What on earth does your statement have to do with the OP's question? If you think a GPS should do weather, write to Garmin?

FWIW. There was a guy a year or two who had a GPS in his car. He got into Oregon mountains in the winter and GPS led him astray. It was fatal. They don't show snowbanks and washed out roads. Something to consider.
Perhaps weather wasn't in the program, but one should always use judgment with computer mapping. For example, I have used DeLorme Street Atlas for many years and it has worked very well. But on two occasions its "fastest" route, as based on its knowledge of distance and its idea of maintainable average speeds, led me astray. Once was simply a route through an urban area in Connecticut where the shortest route had a million stoplights, or maybe two million. The other time was when its idea of a shorter route around a small town in Vermont turned into a steep dirt road. It was actually dangerous because part of a steep section was quite muddy from rain runoff. In both cases I could have concluded what might happen but foolishly didn't.

Some friends once followed a computer's route from Burlington, VT to Alburg by going through the towns on the little islands that populate the northern end of Lake Champlain. If they'd looked at the map the would have seen how the computer somehow missed I-87 that could have shortened their trip by over an hour.

My wife and I just returned from a 3-month self supported tour through seven European countries. We pretty much rolled our own as far as route planning goes for the first half of the trip. My GPS, a Garmin 60 CSX, was invaluable throughout the trip. I had Garmin Europe Maps loaded on it as well as in our netbook. It saved countless hours navigating through the larger cities, finding alternate routes, finding campgrounds, and finding hotels. It has a very comprehensive listing of campgrounds and hotels in the program. Even when we hit countries with established bike routes, it was still a great tool. A lot of the bike trails are not on the Michelin Maps (which is another great tool), and it helped when alternate routes were needed because of muddy roads or finding an alternate route to a town. The bike routes were designed for touring, and were not necessarily the shortest way to get from point A to B.

It was also fun to see our track through cities, and know what the elevation profile looked like for the day. It helped to explain why it took us 2 hours to get through some relatively small cities. It also confirmed our perception that there is really no such thing as flat. We had several days in Holland where we climbed over 2000'. It is also great for finding your way back to a bus stop or hotel when playing tourist in the larger cities.

If you are an ACA route, there is probably no need for one. But if you want to explore, and make your own routes it is a very useful tool.

P.S I also use it ( in conjunction with maps) as a backcountry ski patroller, and while ski mountaineering and backpacking. Before I retired, I also used it for work.

FWIW. There was a guy a year or two who had a GPS in his car. He got into Oregon mountains in the winter and GPS led him astray. It was fatal. They don't show snowbanks and washed out roads. Something to consider.
This is 100% speculation of the worst sort, but in OR there are some real quirks to the back roads. Often, Google-based maps will show a road as existing when it doesn't or show a road as not going through that does. If the GPS unit is using maps that are based on Google-maps, then that could have been one factor among many in that tragedy.

I am one of those curmudgeons who hasn't gotten a GPS yet. Well, except for one of the cheapie Spot devices so my wife and/or son can see where I am; it doesn't tell me. I feel like I should already know.

Originally Posted by DrJerry
FWIW. There was a guy a year or two who had a GPS in his car. He got into Oregon mountains in the winter and GPS led him astray. It was fatal. They don't show snowbanks and washed out roads. Something to consider.

The GPS didn't lead him astray. He was just too inexperienced to know that a car with 1 foot of ground clearance does not do well in 2 feet of snow, and 4 wheel drive is not always the answer. Common sense should have indicated that the road was not a good one to take. A GPS can not tell you how much snow is on a road or know if it is winter or summer.

I am interested in how you would use the GPS with a canoe. I enjoy paddling around, but can't see myself getting lost in the waters here in the SW. Canada is probably more intense with ways to get lost. Fill me in.

I've chosen a big canoe for 2 of us to take out on the ocean. If you google "Broken Group Islands", and "Desolation Sound" you will see where I want to go on 1 or 2 week trips.
I'll use the GPS for navigation when the visibility gets bad... down to 2 kms, or 1 mile.
When the weather is good, I can navigate with a compass and Chart. That's why I'm wondering, "Do I really need it?"

I've had the 60CSX Map for about 3 years before I got my 800. I've not had the bike mount problems that others have reported and this was mounted to a non-suspension mtn bike. YMMV. It's a great unit, and the 62 looks even better, especially for all round usage. It's nice to be able to bike and then later take it hiking through Valley of Fire or Brice Canyon. You just can't get the same functionality from the 800.

By now you must realize GPS is a good tool and that any tool may have a flaw. But GPS does work and when you use the tool the way it was designed it works well.
Just as an example ask anyone that owns a sailboat and cruises for years at a time. If a GPS can get you from Florida to Australia it should be able to get you from one city to another. Even our service men are using GPS to find their way Iraq and Afghanistan where they have never set foot before.

Easy enough to load both the road maps (with business POIs) and the topo maps into your Garmin GPS and then switch between them as needed.

True. I didn't realize before the tour that the points of interest wouldn't be on the topo maps.

Part of my problem is that I haven't been able to find a good, comprehensive guide for how to use the thing - something like, "Using GPS for Bike Touring for Dummies."

I got a GPS for a tour, and quickly abandoned it for useful navigation in favor of paper maps. I haven't seen anything to change my mind for route finding.

One loaded with motels, restaurants, etc. could be useful. But my new favorite geek toy is a smart phone with GPS and google maps. It has all that, and freshly updated; it's lighter than my old GPS; finds my location quicker from a cold start; and I'm carrying it anyway. (Still worth carrying a decent point and shoot camera, though.)

I've used a Garmin GPSMap60csx for years and love it. On our annual 600+ summer WI ride I plot the routes onto the device in advance. Spectacular. Every turn is preceded by a beep in case I'm not paying attention. There are a lot of "little details" that you just need to figure out in order to tweak your ideal experience, but I'm a believer.

I've been eyeing the Delorme unit lately and wondering if it solves some of my minor issues (example: Garmin mapsource does not include multi use trails as routable paths, but there are work-arounds). But super detailed usage issues can only be discovered in real use. Manuals never get detailed enough.

Our annual WI ride has two of us using GPS and 30+ using paper maps. When they get confused they always turn to us to figure it out. And several times a day I end up correcting others as they make wrong turns based on their map reading. And we chuckle when someone calls out for a "page-turning" break. 6000+ miles of group riding has repeatedly shown GPS to be better than paper for convenience.

Now having said that, I always carry a paper map in the trunk bag. And one day I kept refreshing (recalculating) my route because it disagreed with the paper maps (paper maps show the exact route and my gps route is derived from it) until I discovered "recalculate" means "try a different route thru the same waypoints." Arrggghhh.

Just got a Dakota 20, for use in our abandoned cemetery project. Needed the ability to download maps, and wanted touchscreen. This one had the best reviews (that I was able to find). Not enough time on it to make a recommendation though.

We just got a Dakota 20 also. Haven't used it enough yet to give a good review. Got it for a good price online $219.

Taking it to Canyonlands NP Horseshoe Canyon this weekend so we'll see how it goes.


I'm a GIS/GPS professional. I work with mapping software and mapping grade Trimble GPS units at work, but often just go with paper topos or my own sense of direction when out on my own.

We just got a Dakota 20 also. Haven't used it enough yet to give a good review. Got it for a good price online $219.

Taking it to Canyonlands NP Horseshoe Canyon this weekend so we'll see how it goes.


I'm a GIS/GPS professional. I work with mapping software and mapping grade Trimble GPS units at work, but often just go with paper topos or my own sense of direction when out on my own.Awesome area, enjoy the impressive pictographs there.

Use my Garmin705 for biking and for navigation on both bike and car while traveling. It has worked out real well for both. However, on two occasions, one in FL and one in CO, the thing took us on a complete circle of roads before steering us on the correct path. First time it was irritating as the circle was a couple miles in strange territory. Second time it was sort of funny because it took us out one driveway, down the street to another driveway, back into the parking lot, then out the first driveway and turned us the correct direction. Total of less than a block.

Only disadvantage is that the screen is a bit small for night driving solo.

I don't like using the smartphone for communication and navigation. From what others have told me too often when they need the smartphone for an urgent matter the battery is done for by all the navigation. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Treated myself to a Garmin 305 in Jan 2010 as a b'day gift. Love it. I like that it tracks my location and vitals, and I can upload all that good stuff. It makes it easy to keep track of my rides, and I've programmed in a few training intervals and routes. For the most part, all that works well.

The device is much less useful as a general purpose GPS and useless as a car navigation tool. In the woods it would be far better than a compass in most instances, but other products are better suited to that use.

Sorry, that's like saying it's bad to use a map because a guy got hit by a car while on a ride, but he didn't see it coming as he was checking his route map.

What on earth does your statement have to do with the OP's question? If you think a GPS should do weather, write to Garmin?

I don't have a GPS, and I don't particularly want one. The issue is that some people will dutifully follow the GPS, while not having a clue as to where they actually are, this can be a problem when a road is only partly winter maintained. I have seen roads where the snowplow actually turns around at one point and goes back, leaving a big snowbank in the middle of the road. If you do not realise that this happens, you can run right into that snowbank. They usually do this, because there are no people along that part of the road, so they don't want to spend the time and fuel to plow it.

I am interested in how you would use the GPS with a canoe. I enjoy paddling around, but can't see myself getting lost in the waters here in the SW. Canada is probably more intense with ways to get lost. Fill me in.You rely on visual clues to place yourself on a map, so an utter lack of those (big body of water), or an unfamiliar scenery cluttered with details can cause you to lose your position. I never rely solely on GPS for navigation when paddling. I also bring maps / nautical charts and a compass with me and make sure I can position myself on the paper map at all times. I also find it easier to plan my paddling trips or next day's leg on a paper map / chart than on a small screen of a handheld GPS device.

But GPS is a nice addition. It gives me speed/distance/bearing info, and it can place me on the map when visibility is low or I'm lost otherwise. The small screen can be difficult to read in bright sunlight, also finding a useful zoom level may require constant fiddling with the unit. Total waterproofness is a must, floatability is a plus. Even if it floats, I tie it onto something, either my person or kayak.

I tend to keep the thing on all the time during paddling. I can budget for two full tour days per one set of freshly recharged NiMHs (my unit is an old Magellan Meridian Color, takes two AAs).

All this said, I did circle a couple of islands for nearly an hour once, despite having both GPS and laminated paper map. I was looking for a specific place to camp, and GPS and map were giving contradicting information. I couldn't make any sense out of it, so I just took to land. After walking around a bit I confirmed I was in the correct place and set up camp, still not quite sure of what had happened.

Next morning, I took one look at the (borrowed) paper map and noticed it had folded slightly when they fed it into laminating machine. Fold went straight accross my destination island, changing its shape and size on the map considerably. I was too tired before to notice it.

--J

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS

Shouted out because that is what is missing when GPS is blamed for someone having navigation problems. People have been getting in trouble, and even dying, for generations because they blindly followed whatever navigation aid they were using.

There is just no substitute for situational awareness. With it you always know about where you are. Without it you are merely following bread crumbs and hoping they don't lead to the cannibal's cave.

SITUATIONAL AWARENESS

Shouted out because that is what is missing when GPS is blamed for someone having navigation problems. People have been getting in trouble, and even dying, for generations because they blindly followed whatever navigation aid they were using.

There is just no substitute for situational awareness. With it you always know about where you are. Without it you are merely following bread crumbs and hoping they don't lead to the cannibal's cave.

Yes, you need to have a basic idea of where you are, which I find is easier on a map, because a map is a big picture, maps cover hundreds of kilometres, so you can always find yourself on a map, all you need is a marked intersection of two roads, and these days with 911 being pretty much ubiquitous roads are a lot better marked then they used to be, I know of only one road that doesn't have a name, but it's not a real road..... The problem with GPS, is the GPS screen is small picture, it covers a tiny area, fine in the city, where that tiny area might be 4 or 5 blocks in size, not so much in the country where you don't see cross roads until your pretty much on top of them. The difficulty with some GPS and a lot of online maps is that they don't mark road types the way old paper maps did, it's an issue with products like Google Maps as well, where paved and gravel roads are marked the same.

Yes, you need to have a basic idea of where you are, which I find is easier on a map, because a map is a big picture, maps cover hundreds of kilometres, so you can always find yourself on a map, all you need is a marked intersection of two roads, and these days with 911 being pretty much ubiquitous roads are a lot better marked then they used to be, I know of only one road that doesn't have a name, but it's not a real road..... The problem with GPS, is the GPS screen is small picture, it covers a tiny area, fine in the city, where that tiny area might be 4 or 5 blocks in size, not so much in the country where you don't see cross roads until your pretty much on top of them. The difficulty with some GPS and a lot of online maps is that they don't mark road types the way old paper maps did, it's an issue with products like Google Maps as well, where paved and gravel roads are marked the same.

Your personal preference is just fine. I wasn't shooting at any particular navigation device since I've seen people have trouble, even unto death, with all kinds of navigation devices, even ground radar control.

The key is that you have a system that allows you to have situational awareness, a sense of about where you are. Whatever works, works.

Your personal preference is just fine. I wasn't shooting at any particular navigation device since I've seen people have trouble, even unto death, with all kinds of navigation devices, even ground radar control.

The key is that you have a system that allows you to have situational awareness, a sense of about where you are. Whatever works, works.

I'm just saying it's more difficult with a 3"x3" screen that covers maybe 1 square mile, then it is with a 2' x 3' piece of paper that covers a few hundred square miles, because positional indicators may be visible that are further away then the tiny GPS map will indicate. Yes some GPS units may be able to zoom out, but honestly this is 50+ and trying to read a map that is marked in a 2 point font is going to be an exercise is futility for most of us, even with our glasses. In cities the GPS maps seem to be pretty good, in rural areas they tend not to be, especially here on the Bruce, where I have seen people with GPS driving through empty space, because the county road they are on, isn't in the right spot on the map, it's way off to the side, even though your on it.

I'm just saying it's more difficult with a 3"x3" screen that covers maybe 1 square mile, then it is with a 2' x 3' piece of paper that covers a few hundred square miles, because positional indicators may be visible that are further away then the tiny GPS map will indicate. Yes some GPS units may be able to zoom out, but honestly this is 50+ and trying to read a map that is marked in a 2 point font is going to be an exercise is futility for most of us, even with our glasses. In cities the GPS maps seem to be pretty good, in rural areas they tend not to be, especially here on the Bruce, where I have seen people with GPS driving through empty space, because the county road they are on, isn't in the right spot on the map, it's way off to the side, even though your on it.

Gee, I'm sorry you are misinterpreting me as arguing with you. All I'm saying is that what you are doing works for you. That is great. That is what navigation is supposed to do, work for the user so they can stay oriented. But, your experience is not everyone's. Different people have different visualization abilities, different needs, etc. For them your system may not be as useful as another; even a small screen gps unit.

I live on a dead end road comes from the E/W highway to the North. The same named street coming from the south dead ends just East of our house. (Confused yet?) Mapquest, et al show the streets as one with an offset. I can always tell when someone has been using Mapquest, GPS or similar. We see headlights in our front window, hear tires screech, and see a car sitting in front of our house before backing up. Comes from 2 adjacent farms being subdivided. Plat map is not what is really there. Durn Cherry growers anyway.

I live on a dead end road comes from the E/W highway to the North. The same named street coming from the south dead ends just East of our house. (Confused yet?) Mapquest, et al show the streets as one with an offset. I can always tell when someone has been using Mapquest, GPS or similar. We see headlights in our front window, hear tires screech, and see a car sitting in front of our house before backing up. Comes from 2 adjacent farms being subdivided. Plat map is not what is really there. Durn Cherry growers anyway.

Don'tcha just hate when they do that.... I know of one street (Oxford Street) where it got cut in half by a major highway, then shifted over because of a factory needing to expand a large parking lot into a massive parking lot, the factory could do this because it employs half the city it's located in, and it's suppliers employ the other half. You would think that they might call one piece Oxford Street, another piece Oxford Road and another piece Oxford Drive, to keep it from being confusing, but naw, that would be too smart.... Had a cousin move into a house on that street, and of course we start looking on the wrong piece...

Awesome area, enjoy the impressive pictographs there.

I have been there before, so this is a revisit.

The weather did not turn out so well for a camping trip this weekend so we postponed. It's only about 3 hrs drive away. We'll try again in the next few weeks.

GPS is a fun toy, but though I've had 5 including two before the maps were included, I can't say they are that useful except on occasion. Our last Canada canoe trip I took one to insure I could double check my estimate of location as there were some dangerous rapids with a history of loss of life where we had to catch the portage take outs in a very strong current before it was too late. That was useful, though inaccurate as few maps are GPS corrected. Typical errors on that trip was about 1 km; mostly map error (old paper maps) of course.

I lost my last Garmin, an Etrex. Good hardware, but poor and expensive maps and a poor manual. I replaced it with a Delome PN-60. I like it far more than any Garmin product I've owned over the years except for my Garmin ForeRunner heart rate monitor.

Delorme has great manuals and far better maps for messing around in the woods which we do often. The base map, Topo North America 9.0 which resides on the PC and in the receiver is better than Garmin's equivelant. I use it occasionally for route planning and use the GPS as a car navigator or just print out a map with instructions, or both.

No voice guidence unless you plug it into a portable pc, but it does chirp twice when approaching a turn and once at the turn.

I enjoy having a GPS, but what makes it or breaks it for me is the software and not the harware. For $30.00/year, Delorme allows you to download an unlimited number of the detailed USGS 1:24K Quads. I must have over 60 by now and have about 8 months left on the first $30.00.

I do like my Garmin ForeRunner heart rate monitor GPS wrist unit. It's great for both running and cycling as you get a nice heart rate curve vs time and distance as well as cadence. However, GPS for biking in the woods is very inaccurate for distance traveled. So I turn it's GPS off and use the wheel sensor. GPS algoritms can't handle the numerous and high concentration of turns and hills. All mine have run around 15% low. For running or on the road, they do well.

The modern receivers with the new chips do very well under thick tree-cover.

Al

Thanks, a good cross section of experience.
I did my research and settled on a Garmin GPSmap 78s, then priced out the unit and charts and maps I would need for canoeing, biking and hiking. In the end, it was too rich for my wallet. (Don't you hate it when your eyes are bigger than your wallet?) I'll have to catch up on my savings account then will be able to buy it next year, if I still want it.

I enjoy having a GPS, but what makes it or breaks it for me is the software and not the harware. For $30.00/year, Delorme allows you to download an unlimited number of the detailed USGS 1:24K Quads. I must have over 60 by now and have about 8 months left on the first $30.00.

The modern receivers with the new chips do very well under thick tree-cover.



One question and it can be tough to answer, lots of these items have excellent, up to date, US maps, but go to a place outside the US and the maps leave a lot to be desired. I've heard of one unit, not sure which one, I don't have the article handy, that contained a map of a country in South America, where the map was based on a paper map from 1957....

One question and it can be tough to answer, lots of these items have excellent, up to date, US maps, but go to a place outside the US and the maps leave a lot to be desired. I've heard of one unit, not sure which one, I don't have the article handy, that contained a map of a country in South America, where the map was based on a paper map from 1957....
That certainly does not apply to the UK. Our OS (Ordnance Survey) maps are absolutely fantastic and you can get GPS devices (http://gbr.garmin.com/on-the-trail/products/compatible-products.html) which include this mapping.

I agree about some other places though. I went on holiday to the Greek island of Corfu and tried to buy a good map but all I could find was the same crappy map in every shop.

One day, I hired a bike and went off exploring and stopped off in a village which had a few tourist shops. I bought a bottle of the local olive oil from one shop and as I left, the owner of the shop next door started hassling me to buy something from his. His English wasn't great and I don't speak Greek so communicating with him wasn't easy.

I tried to explain that I wanted a good map - he had very good map, come buy it ... Next minute he is waving yet another copy of the crappy map at me! I said it was no good. No, it very good map. I was cracking up ... I led him out of the shop and pointed at the road, then the map and asked him to show me that road on the map. He couldn't - it wasn't marked on it. I then said, okay, forget the road, show me his village on the map - that wasn't marked on it either, despite the settlement clearly being many hundreds of years old!

He smiled, shrugged his shoulders, tossed the map to one side and asked me if I wanted to buy a jar of his honey instead! :)

I live on a dead end road comes from the E/W highway to the North. The same named street coming from the south dead ends just East of our house. (Confused yet?) Mapquest, et al show the streets as one with an offset. I can always tell when someone has been using Mapquest, GPS or similar. We see headlights in our front window, hear tires screech, and see a car sitting in front of our house before backing up. Comes from 2 adjacent farms being subdivided. Plat map is not what is really there. Durn Cherry growers anyway.

What is common and even more frustrating are streets that change their names mid-street. Enter the street from one end and it has one name. Enter from the other end and it has a different name. Sometimes, I presume it is because many people navigate by landmark rather than by street name, the residents on the street don't even know the difference exists.

That brings up a problem with all kinds of navigation: map accuracy. Many times the data upon which maps, whether paper or electronic are based is just not accurate. Sometimes that is because things have changed since the last time a survey was done. Sometimes it is deliberate because residents have put out misleading information.

All in all no matter what navigation aid there is no substitute for local knowledge and situational awareness. This is true whether driving a car, flying an airplane, conning a ship, or just doing back country work off the road system.

Sorry about my brief statement. What the GPS did NOT show was that the road is closed in the winter. Not maintained nor plowed. He thought he was on a nice through road, got stuck, and died of exposure before rescue crews could get to him.

Sorry about my brief statement. What the GPS did NOT show was that the road is closed in the winter. Not maintained nor plowed. He thought he was on a nice through road, got stuck, and died of exposure before rescue crews could get to him.


A common problem with all kinds of navigation devices. Charts that do not include hazards to navigation, maps that are not current, people who actively resist having accurate information published about their area, city lots that have multiple addresses, aviation charts that have wrong locations for nav aids and geographic hazards..... I don't think a map or chart exists than can be 100% trusted as a sole navigation aid.

My point is that although people often blame GPS for navigation errors, in fact it isn't the GPS. It is the base mapping data that is the problem. That problem would be there whether GPS, paper, or some other presentation.