Commuting - 30 year old, mass produced 10 speeds are not worth 300 dollars..

Why is craigslist producing so many for sale ads for cheaply made 80's 10 speeds with low quality components that somehow are expecting to command 300 dollar price tags? I feel like it would be like asking 4,000 dollars for a 1992 Ford Escort.

Granted, there are some vintage bikes that are worth big bucks. But these are not those bikes. Jussayin.

Free market. If there's people out there buying them, then the price is justified.

Free market. If there's people out there buying them, then the price is justified.

True, the real question is "Are they selling for those prices on Craig's list?" I'm thinking probably not, and if not they'll end up in a yard sale and go for maybe $50.

That said, there are some (very few) real gems out there, so it could pay to check out Craig's list . . . just in case.

Rick / OCRR

Don't buy the overpriced ones.

Actually, I think part of what's going on is that if you list something for sale on CL for $100, you'll get a dozen emails from people offering you $15 for it. So the people offering bikes at highly inflated prices are probably doing it so that when people low-ball them, that will bring things down to a reasonable level...?

Depends a lot on the market,too. In some cities prices are higher. My suspicion is that they're asking high and hoping to get half of what they ask.

I'd guess the logic goes something like this:

1. Someone lists a late 80's Schwinn Tempo with Shimano 600 components for $300
2. Someone else sees this and remembers having seen a Schwinn at Walmart recently
3. This second person concludes that his 30 year old dept store 10 speed must be worth about the same as the Schwinn Tempo

We can only hope there isn't a third person who follows the same reasoning and buys the bike.

In general, I've found the asking prices on CL bikes to have very little correlation with reality. People selling lower end bikes generally know less about them and are therefore less likely to come up with a reasonable asking price. People buying lower end bikes also have little knowledge and so the market might support the price to a point. This creates a downward pressure on the price of good mid-tier bikes, which can be a good or bad thing, depending on whether you are buying or selling.

what has happened is that some of the late '60s/early '70s bikes that are actually rare, but are pretty crummy bikes have started commanding high prices. And the people that think they are going to get rich because of "American trash pickers" can't be bothered to tell the difference between the junk and the valuable junk. At least that's my interpretation. I always love it when people come on to BF and ask how much their rare AMF 10 speed is worth. I will pay $5 for any AMF just so I can send it to the recyclers.

If someone can get 300 bucks for their old Free Spirit, more power to them. May not be worth it to me, but if someone thinks they are worth that, more poser to them, too.

Oops, I meant more power. Was that a Freudian slip, maybe?

If someone can get 300 bucks for their old Free Spirit, more power to them. May not be worth it to me, but if someone thinks they are worth that, more poser to them, too.

They did make a 753 free spirt! Just saying!

I'd guess the logic goes something like this:

1. Someone lists a late 80's Schwinn Tempo with Shimano 600 components for $300
2. Someone else sees this and remembers having seen a Schwinn at Walmart recently
3. This second person concludes that his 30 year old dept store 10 speed must be worth about the same as the Schwinn Tempo

We can only hope there isn't a third person who follows the same reasoning and buys the bike.

In general, I've found the asking prices on CL bikes to have very little correlation with reality. People selling lower end bikes generally know less about them and are therefore less likely to come up with a reasonable asking price. People buying lower end bikes also have little knowledge and so the market might support the price to a point. This creates a downward pressure on the price of good mid-tier bikes, which can be a good or bad thing, depending on whether you are buying or selling.

I would agree with this.

Also, the shows like pickers and pawn stars, and road show have a lot of people thinking that their junk is worth more than what it is JUNK!

Although, I did pay a little more, (cough, cough) for my 80's bike;

225480

My experience with selling stuff on Craigslist is that everyone offers you less than the asking price, even if it's very fair or even a bargain.

However, some people are just clueless. They think old bikes are antiques and worth as much or more than new ones. On the other hand, I also see some old bikes where the seller has obviously gone to a lot of effort to clean up the bike, install new cables and bar tape, adjust the gears and brakes, new tires, etc. In those cases, the prices might be justified.

Neurocyclist,

Do you have an example, or a region that you are specifically referring to?

As noted above by others, there are asking prices and then there are selling prices. Also, many brand names have been sold and gone through changes, so a junker brand might have started out as a decent brand, this is where it helps to know a little about the history of the brands or at least know where to find out the history (Schwinn, Raleigh, Ross, Motobecane, others). Also many lessor known brands have both high end and low end models (BCA, Univega, others), so it is also worthwhile to know what to look for (forged versus stamped dropouts, brazed versus crimped and spot welded fittings).

A Schwinn Varsity is an example where the collector market has taken over, partly because there were so many of them that many buyers are simply buying one because they had one in high school or college and will pay more due to emotional factors moreso than the quality of the bike.

Sometimes a $300 "junker" is worth $300 because buying a comparable new bike will cost you well over $700 of lessor quality. Plus the older bikes can be cleaned and regreased, where many newer bikes need stuff like bottom bracket assemblies replaced every 1-4 years.

But if you're just spouting sour grapes because you only want to spend $50 on a 30 year old bike and all you can find locally are $300 listings, then either come to Milwaukee for your shopping, or make some jam out of those grapes. But be warned the overpricing happens here too, someone has a kid's bike posted for $100, I just had two posted for $50 where one of them was the same exact model as his $100 bike, they didn't sell so I donated them to a thrift shop where they are probably priced today for between $8.00 to $14.95 (maybe up to $50 if the backroom pricer thinks they are antique and collectable, which the Stingray style bikes are to some extent).

As an example of my local market, the Manta could have made an excellent campus/commuter bike but went unsold for $25 so it is now parts, kids bikes as noted are donated, and the Diamondback Hybrid remains unsold for a bit over $100 with new tires and nothing wrong with it at all. Just examples of regional variations. I'm not really a "flipper", we've got 13 grandkids and I also just like bikes so I pass along what I don't want or no longer need in the family.

Have a good day.

I agree with Treebound. If I can buy a lugged steel bike with all the necessary braze ons and eyelets for $300, that's a whole lot cheaper than a comparable new one. My 1993 Bridgestone XO-2 cost me $400 a couple of years ago, but to replicate it as a new bike would cost me three times that, if I could even do it.

You might find that it only seems to be a bike problem because bikes are your area of expertise. I know more about firearms and knives than I do about bikes, and the prices people ask on Craigslist for knife-shaped objects literally stamped out of mysterious "surgical steels" from Pakistan (read: "technically, it is not fraud to label this metal as steel. In most countries.") are shocking. People want $100 for a "knife" or "sword" that is available for $5-$10 (and badly overpriced at that) brand new.

Weight lifting equipment is just as bad . . . I suspect lawn mowers, power tools, computer components and a lot of other categories are like that, too.

I feel like it would be like asking 4,000 dollars for a 1992 Ford Escort.

You have a running ford escort? I have a mid nineties Festiva and I really enjoy the 55MPG they are currently selling on ebay for $3500 this was a $300 car when gas was a dollar seventy a gallon...


Anyway lugged frames of quality steel with 333 400 500 and 105 Shimano try to find that quality in a new bike... at the same price

A single three or five speed freespirit made in Tennesee is a good price at $300 just find and american made bike with investment cast lugs and a 3 speed rear hub...

Oh I know this is going to make you mad but, craigslist doesn't sell to people people do so craigslist is not producing anything...
I buy off CL all the time someone thought a solid wood paddle was worth $500 for a canoe I sure didn't but then again I wanted a durable paddle made with modern materials...

I'll choose an old 1980's $300 lugged chromoly steel-framed bike over a brand new aluminum bike, any day of the week!

After the chromoly steel-framed bike is spaced out at 130mm for clearance, I can then treat it like a brand new bike. I'll then upgrade it with 105's, after it gets professionally painted. Ten years later, I'll be happy that I made that small investment.

- Slim :)

I sold my low to mid level 80's Peugeot on CL for $270 a couple of years ago. A few years before that I would have been surprised if anyone would have given me $100 for it.

Though the frame was nothing special it was in beautiful shape and the components were pretty decent. It was also well maintained with new pads, cables, tires, etc. I was also very clear about whatever deficiencies it had and I included detailed photos.

I have to admit it bugged me to see a guy trying to sell a similar model last year for over $500. I almost emailed him to let him know that he was ripping people off. But then I noticed that the bike appeared again and again. Other people must have voiced their opinion of his pricing because his postings got more and more defensive about it and he refused to lower it. I think he eventually just gave up.

So I think in some ways CL is self regulating. People go there looking for a good deal, - not to spend $300 on a generic road bike.

It's worth however much someone is willing to pay for it.

Personally, I value my refurbished Free Spirit far above what anyone would actually pay for it, because of the time spent on it and what it's capable of doing for me. If I had to put a price point on it, that would probably be somewhere around $300 because that's what it would cost to replace with something that would perform similarly.
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You have a running ford escort?

I've got two. They are the "fleet cars" my sons drive.

I'll choose an old 1980's $300 lugged chromoly steel-framed bike over a brand new aluminum bike, any day of the week!
- Slim :)

Agreed !! I love the looks of a lugged frames. I was very lucky few days ago I found a vintage road bike in a dumpster behind an apartament in my neighborhood . I threw away the wheels, gears, chain, brake leavers as they were not worth saving.. but I am restoring the frame with some nice paint job...the cranks, bottom bracket, headset, handlebars are in a great shape. It's a 1982 Motobecane, which was made in France.
The best part of the frame is the long horizontal drop outs which makes for an easy
SS/FG conversion.

On the other hand, I also see some old bikes where the seller has obviously gone to a lot of effort to clean up the bike, install new cables and bar tape, adjust the gears and brakes, new tires, etc. In those cases, the prices might be justified.
If you find a bike that's been refurb'ed, it might be worth the cash. Round here, the price is usually just under $200 even if it has been fixed up.

They did make a 753 free spirt! Just saying!

They made a 531 Free Spirit but even these do not warrant a high price due to their low end components and whippy frames... in really nice condition a bike like this might warrant $150.00

If someone can get 300 bucks for their old Free Spirit, more power to them. May not be worth it to me, but if someone thinks they are worth that, more poser to them, too.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/775791-531-Reynolds-Sears-Free-Spirit-on-CL......?highlight=free+spirit+531

Really depends on the market. No $300 tenspeeds here. I'll buy Treks for $150-200 all day long (Even they are "mass produced")
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/2661358704.html

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/2681573524.html

I don't expect stuff like this though. (Not mass produced)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hetchins-Magnum-Opus-Campagnolo-50th-Anniversary-Groupset-NOS-/200668111964?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3893659632348545197#ht_500 wt_1327

Neurocyclist, if it makes you feel good I sold my 1986 Bottechia with Campy brakes,hubs and misc. Shimano 600 components for $250 last year to a guy who commutes to work. I bought the frame for $500 back then. I was pleased with the sale.

Holy Cow,

If that Free Spirit is even ride-able I'd drive up from Chicago to get it. :O



http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/775791-531-Reynolds-Sears-Free-Spirit-on-CL......?highlight=free+spirit+531

Really depends on the market. No $300 tenspeeds here. I'll buy Treks for $150-200 all day long (Even they are "mass produced")
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/2661358704.html

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/bik/2681573524.html

I don't expect stuff like this though. (Not mass produced)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hetchins-Magnum-Opus-Campagnolo-50th-Anniversary-Groupset-NOS-/200668111964?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D3893659632348545197#ht_500 wt_1327

You Chicago guys could come up with a pocket full of $20's and leave with a trunk full of deals.

there was a guy a while back trying to sell a red bianchi for 9000.00

I can't even sell my late-90's MTB (mostly XT + some nice commuterizations) for $150 locally (Philly). Go figure.

I've mostly given up and fallen in love with it all over again.

You might find that it only seems to be a bike problem because bikes are your area of expertise. I know more about firearms and knives than I do about bikes, and the prices people ask on Craigslist for knife-shaped objects literally stamped out of mysterious "surgical steels" from Pakistan (read: "technically, it is not fraud to label this metal as steel. In most countries.") are shocking. .

the thing that is shocking to me is the price people around here want for their welding torches. More than retail prices on stuff that's too old to rebuild. I figure that it's so old that people don't have any idea how much it cost their grandpa. The bikes are actually priced fairly reasonably. You almost never see a bike for $300 unless it cost much more than that originally

the thing that is shocking to me is the price people around here want for their welding torches. I know right...

I find myself sometimes for the sake(intended) of the deal actually going to a store on occasion and see new and used prices for things I want... then I am reminded how yardsales and CL rocks even ebay if you know exactly what you want and are willing to wait... I wanted a SR Sakae/Ringyo chainring set to go with all my other SR components. LBS $50 and there are a few on ebay for $50-$60 shipped but then I saw an SR apex chainring only on ebay today for $80. I picked up a set with BB for $20 used online... you simply have to know the market where you are people will pay for what they want... even a ford escort

Treebound,
I SO want your pink girls' bike (in my adult size, of course), it was my first bike! I would love to build a single-speed that looks just like it now, but am having a hard time finding the chopper bars...
Thanks for the smile,
ratchet

This looks like a good opportunity to thank all you haters of old aluminum bikes, because you've made my enjoyment of my 18 yr old Trek 1100 possible for such a low price. Having a blast with it, and glad you're not here.

:thumb:
I'll choose an old 1980's $300 lugged chromoly steel-framed bike over a brand new aluminum bike, any day of the week!

After the chromoly steel-framed bike is spaced out at 130mm for clearance, I can then treat it like a brand new bike. I'll then upgrade it with 105's, after it gets professionally painted. Ten years later, I'll be happy that I made that small investment.

- Slim :)

Here's a used, 2007 frameset for $950: http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/2660500482.html :eek:

The one exception to all of this is a "size thing" with the tall frame bikes of the 80's that are no longer in production. You simply cannot-will not find a 27" (almost 69 cm) frame without going custom today, and if a seller knows that, they have way more leverage in their asking price. It's a different ballgame.

I agree with Treebound. If I can buy a lugged steel bike with all the necessary braze ons and eyelets for $300, that's a whole lot cheaper than a comparable new one. My 1993 Bridgestone XO-2 cost me $400 a couple of years ago, but to replicate it as a new bike would cost me three times that, if I could even do it.

+1

For $300, I could buy a bike on Craigslist that would get me to work and back for the next 10 years. Very few new bikes, at any price point will still be on the road 10 years from now.

+1

For $300, I could buy a bike on Craigslist that would get me to work and back for the next 10 years. Very few new bikes, at any price point will still be on the road 10 years from now.
Disagree. Almost all the bikes you purchase new will still be rideable ten years from now.

Look, I understand you like steel bikes with simple components. That doesn't mean that new bikes fall apart.

Very few new bikes, at any price point will still be on the road 10 years from now.

It's true, because we all know the world is going to end on my birthday next year. :rolleyes:

The one exception to all of this is a "size thing" with the tall frame bikes of the 80's that are no longer in production. You simply cannot-will not find a 27" (almost 69 cm) frame without going custom today, and if a seller knows that, they have way more leverage in their asking price. It's a different ballgame.

Very small and large frames, and to a certain extent mixtes are certainly worth more although it may take longer for a buyer to come forth.

I ride a 25 year old steel bike that had everything I wanted in a quality steel frame. I paid $125 for it but have considerably more invested in paint and upgraded drivetrain. Still much less than a comparable new bike equipped the same.

Disagree. Almost all the bikes you purchase new will still be rideable ten years from now.

Look, I understand you like steel bikes with simple components. That doesn't mean that new bikes fall apart.



True. The bike industry hasn't built planned obsolescence into their products just yet. I don't know how I would feel about buying a 30 year old Madone, though.

True. The bike industry hasn't built planned obsolescence into their products just yet. I don't know how I would feel about buying a 30 year old Madone, though.

If you would buy something leading edge today but wouldn't rebuy the same thing later because it won't be leading edge then, that is what planned obsolescence is.

My wife's Schwinn cost her almost $300 new at her then-LBS in the late 80s, and she could probably sell it for $300 now, with some spiffing-up. A comparable frame is probably a salsa casseroll (steel road bike, horizontal dropouts) and that would cost >$400. And then you need parts. But you don't get lugs. A lot of what makes an old frame desirable is a style preference, not anything truly objective.

I don't know what the lesson is. My Huffy Santa Fe from the late 70s is definitely not a $300 bike, now or then.

My wife's Schwinn cost her almost $300 new at her then-LBS in the late 80s, and she could probably sell it for $300 now, with some spiffing-up. A comparable frame is probably a salsa casseroll (steel road bike, horizontal dropouts) and that would cost >$400. And then you need parts. But you don't get lugs. A lot of what makes an old frame desirable is a style preference, not anything truly objective.

You don't mention when in the 80s, or what Schwinn, but $300 spent in 1985 is equivalent to $630 (http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=300.00&year1=1985&year2=2011) today.

For less than $630, you can get some really (http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes/details/downtown_ex) decent (http://www.rei.com/product/808781/novara-buzz-bike-2012) commuter (http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/town/urban_utility/allant/allant/#) bikes.

Sure, you don't always get lugs or even steel, but you do get reliable, comfortable bikes perfect for commuting on.

What I don't get is the belief from some that anything modern is complete crap... or that modern bikes don't have the same value.

For $300, I could buy a bike on Craigslist that would get me to work and back for the next 10 years. Very few new bikes, at any price point will still be on the road 10 years from now.

What I don't get is the belief from some that anything modern is complete crap... or that modern bikes don't have the same value.

Not everything modern is complete crap but...

STI shifters, which are common on todays mass marketed bikes, are disposable - for example, read this (http://norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/index.php). Many of the higher end bikes being made today use carbon-fiber which is easier to damage than steel, and harder to repair, with the net effect being that the expected lifetime of a carbon fiber frame is far less than what would be expected of a steel frame. Many, if not most road bikes being sold today have STI shifters and/or carbon fiber frames, which to my thinking, means that this is not a bike which you will be able to depend on over the long term. Similarly, look at the chains in common use - if you bought a '10 speed' in 1980, it would have a rear cluster of 5 sprockets, and would use a 7.2 mm wide chain (internal measurement). You could probably expect to get 10,000 miles out of that chain and cluster with lubrication being the only maintenence needed. If you buy a '10 speed' bike today, it will have a cassette with 10 sprockets on it, and will take a chain which is 6.2mm in width, and you will probably only be able to expect to get 2,000 miles out of it before it needs replacement.

It's not that everything that is being built today is crap, but the vast majority of it is either crap, or has been designed and built for racing, not for daily riding. This is the commuting forum, and I still contend that you can buy a good reliable commute bike from craigslist which will stand up to commuting better than almost any new bike that you can buy. - There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, not the rule.

My wife's Schwinn cost her almost $300 new at her then-LBS in the late 80s, and she could probably sell it for $300 now, with some spiffing-up.

So you're saying that if she puts in enough work ("spiffing-up") she'll only lose about $200 when she sells the bike?

http://www.1soft.com/todaysdollars.htm

Disagree. Almost all the bikes you purchase new will still be rideable ten years from now.

Look, I understand you like steel bikes with simple components. That doesn't mean that new bikes fall apart.

depends on the bike..... todays lowend bikes fall apart a lot faster then the lowend bikes of 40 years ago...... My neighbors are good examples they and there kids have been through about 8 bikes in the 15 years I have known them allmost all lowend target or Costco. i know because I have wrenched on them, mostly futily. The are now down to 2 working bikes and electra coaster brake cruiser and an 80's trek hybrid. The basic component quality of the trek was so much higher (and hey are not high end components) that they still work now.....

The 10 speeds of the 70's liike the scwhinn did not have what we would call light and high end components....but the worked and lasted.

ymmv

My experience with selling stuff on Craigslist is that everyone offers you less than the asking price, even if it's very fair or even a bargain.

I thought the same thing, but the last four household items I sold on craigslist sold for asking price, no questions. I almost felt bad because I listed the items a bit high anticipating some negotiation. We're talking items priced 100 to 400 dollars too.

Not everything modern is complete crap but...

STI shifters, which are common on todays mass marketed bikes, are disposable - for example, read this (http://norvil.net/pedal/service/shimanosti/index.php). Many of the higher end bikes being made today use carbon-fiber which is easier to damage than steel, and harder to repair, with the net effect being that the expected lifetime of a carbon fiber frame is far less than what would be expected of a steel frame. Many, if not most road bikes being sold today have STI shifters and/or carbon fiber frames, which to my thinking, means that this is not a bike which you will be able to depend on over the long term. Similarly, look at the chains in common use - if you bought a '10 speed' in 1980, it would have a rear cluster of 5 sprockets, and would use a 7.2 mm wide chain (internal measurement). You could probably expect to get 10,000 miles out of that chain and cluster with lubrication being the only maintenence needed. If you buy a '10 speed' bike today, it will have a cassette with 10 sprockets on it, and will take a chain which is 6.2mm in width, and you will probably only be able to expect to get 2,000 miles out of it before it needs replacement.

It's not that everything that is being built today is crap, but the vast majority of it is either crap, or has been designed and built for racing, not for daily riding. This is the commuting forum, and I still contend that you can buy a good reliable commute bike from craigslist which will stand up to commuting better than almost any new bike that you can buy. - There are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions, not the rule.
I don't think a whole lot of citizen commuters are going out and buying modern 10 speed road racers to commute on.

Most new commuters I see are buying flat bar bikes with 7-8 speeds and basic, reliable components and not from Wal-Mart. Somewhere in the $400-$500 range. They come in to our co-op all the time. These bikes, if they continue riding, will definitely be on the road ten years from now. Maybe thirty years. Sure, you' might have to replace some components, but on these basic bikes, the components are inexpensive.

You can't tell me a classic ten speed would survive thirty years of riding without having to replace a few components. Simplex Prestige, anyone?

To clarify, I see bikes on my local craigslist get reposted week after week for the same 250-350 price tag for pre-1990 bikes that I personally don't think have anything unique to offer for that price mark. I only have to assume that their asking prices are making for difficult sells and don't understand the logic. Luckily this is a forum off in internet-land where I can just ask random questions and see if anyone has insight.

Agreed, a nice lugged frame old touring bike with loads of braze ons for 250 is a way better deal that a 250 dollar new bike. But those people with decently maintained steel frames usually know what they have and don't sell them for 250. Of course there are exceptions.

What I am talking about is a steel framed Schwinn Varsity or the like with about 15% of it showing visible rust and components that are only mildly functional isn't a good investment for 200+ dollars. If it's for sentimental value, that's different. I own both old bikes and new bikes and do see value in the technology and style of old. But low end bikes will always be low end bikes and only are worth low end prices.

You can't tell me a classic ten speed would survive thirty years of riding without having to replace a few components. Simplex Prestige, anyone?

Ahem, that's the exception that proves the rule! :D